H
Heidi Linda eMVP
XPe doesn't do instant on. It boots, like any other windows. CE would
probably be more what you're after.
probably be more what you're after.
M
MeatballTurbo
I'm working on a CarPC project.
Currently it runs XP Pro, on a Desktop 3.5" HDD, with Media Engine 2
(http://www.mediaengine.org) as the shell and Mappoint (with AGPS) as
the GPS/routing app.
This is a personal project BTW, not a business, and I realise that XPe
has cost associated with it. But if I can get a suitable system tidy
functional, and efficient, they may be some business ops later, and that
may be able to recoupe some of the cost.
I have the Hardware working as I would like
Epia M10000 (sound/VGA/USB onboard)
Touch screen and wireless keyboard for control.
HDD (30gig for storage of MP3's (and movies for Passengers))
USB GPS module
USB2 external DVD rom drive
USB controller for the touchscreen.
Currently powered by an inverter.
What I'm looking to do is shrink the package and reduce boot time at the
same time.
Hoping to use a CF card as boot media (with swapping disabled), with a
laptop HDD as a read/write media) with 512meg DDR ram.
Plan is to initially use Media engine as an autorun desktop app, then
then use it as a shell, once the system is stable and operational.
Questions are.
1) For a Multimedia embedded OS (video and audio playback), what sort of
image size would I be looking at.
2) Is Media Player 9 available for XPe (requirement of media engine 2).
3) Is CF suitable for an instant on/off system.
4) how easy is XPe to remove un-needed components such as printing, and
many other services.
5) Does XPe have a hibernate function as XP pro does?
6) Can anyone recommend an "Idiots guide to XPe" somewhere, where I can
get an idea of what I would need to do to roll other devices and service
packs, plus software into a default XPe build.
I haven't downloaded and registered the XPe trial yet, never mind paying
for the full dev version, but would be really interested in getting
started ASAP, with any advice gratefully recieved.
Best way to think about the CarPC is an x86 based rather large PDA that
has to be available as close to "Touch of a button" as possible.
TIA
Currently it runs XP Pro, on a Desktop 3.5" HDD, with Media Engine 2
(http://www.mediaengine.org) as the shell and Mappoint (with AGPS) as
the GPS/routing app.
This is a personal project BTW, not a business, and I realise that XPe
has cost associated with it. But if I can get a suitable system tidy
functional, and efficient, they may be some business ops later, and that
may be able to recoupe some of the cost.
I have the Hardware working as I would like
Epia M10000 (sound/VGA/USB onboard)
Touch screen and wireless keyboard for control.
HDD (30gig for storage of MP3's (and movies for Passengers))
USB GPS module
USB2 external DVD rom drive
USB controller for the touchscreen.
Currently powered by an inverter.
What I'm looking to do is shrink the package and reduce boot time at the
same time.
Hoping to use a CF card as boot media (with swapping disabled), with a
laptop HDD as a read/write media) with 512meg DDR ram.
Plan is to initially use Media engine as an autorun desktop app, then
then use it as a shell, once the system is stable and operational.
Questions are.
1) For a Multimedia embedded OS (video and audio playback), what sort of
image size would I be looking at.
2) Is Media Player 9 available for XPe (requirement of media engine 2).
3) Is CF suitable for an instant on/off system.
4) how easy is XPe to remove un-needed components such as printing, and
many other services.
5) Does XPe have a hibernate function as XP pro does?
6) Can anyone recommend an "Idiots guide to XPe" somewhere, where I can
get an idea of what I would need to do to roll other devices and service
packs, plus software into a default XPe build.
I haven't downloaded and registered the XPe trial yet, never mind paying
for the full dev version, but would be really interested in getting
started ASAP, with any advice gratefully recieved.
Best way to think about the CarPC is an x86 based rather large PDA that
has to be available as close to "Touch of a button" as possible.
TIA
W
Wayne Taylor
Hello
1) I'm sure of this as I;ve not built one, but I would estimate 30 > 80mb on
top of your bootable image, if I get the chance I'll see if I can build a
runtime with the Windows Media Components and I'll let you know
2) Yes
3) Yes, but as Hedia has already mentioned CE may be better suited. If you
go down the XPe route lookup EWF
4) It's a case of you select what you want rather than remove what you don't
want
5) Yep
6) I don't know of any specifc ones, sorry.
HTH
Wayne Taylor
1) I'm sure of this as I;ve not built one, but I would estimate 30 > 80mb on
top of your bootable image, if I get the chance I'll see if I can build a
runtime with the Windows Media Components and I'll let you know
2) Yes
3) Yes, but as Hedia has already mentioned CE may be better suited. If you
go down the XPe route lookup EWF
4) It's a case of you select what you want rather than remove what you don't
want
5) Yep
6) I don't know of any specifc ones, sorry.
HTH
Wayne Taylor
M
MeatballTurbo
Mediaengine requires a destop x86 OS as a base (from 98 onwards) I don't
think the makers have ever even attempted a build for CE.
I should perhaps clarify Insant on, I'm talking booting (or returning
from hibernation) in a very short period, rather than exactley when I
press the button like on my ancient handspring visor.
I have XP pro, on a HDD resuming in about 25 seconds, and fully booting
< 1 minute (maybe more not actually timed a full boot).
What sort of time saving over XP pro could I expect from a resume from
hibernation on a CF or DoC system that is trimmed down but includes
multimedia functionality?
I have to admit that this is a learning/knowledge broadening excercise
for me, as much as getting a trimmed down OS. The journey is just as
important as the destination.
S
Slobodan Brcin
First you need to find some really fast CF 
Since hibernate depends mostly on RAW transfer speed of boot disk, and size
of hibernation data.
So CF that people are using in this NG are probably out of the question.
And you should say what startup-time you expects from your XPe at the end?
Also what is the processor speed of your device?
Regards,
Slobodan
Since hibernate depends mostly on RAW transfer speed of boot disk, and size
of hibernation data.
So CF that people are using in this NG are probably out of the question.
And you should say what startup-time you expects from your XPe at the end?
Also what is the processor speed of your device?
Regards,
Slobodan
M
MeatballTurbo
That shouldn't turn out to pricey for the additional hardware then.
So mediaengine is still a viable shell.
Because of the requirement for mediaengine (dedicated car multimedia
package) a Desktop OS is needed, I have seen EWF mentioned when
researching XPe, where I also discovered this NG mentioned.
That is how I thought it would work, as I believe Via produce several
..slx files for the various Epia based boards. That covers base for the
specific epia configuration ontop of basic.
Thats great thank you. With a HDD and XP pro, I've hibernate to be the
best way of getting the CarPC as it currently stands started before I'm
ready to move off. I'm assuming the XPe on a CF or DoC will resume a lot
faster than a mechanical HDD once the initial Bios stage has been
passed.
OK, no probs Wayne. the info you've given me has helped loads. It has
confirmed that a DOC/CF based system with XPe will be more suitable for
what I want than what I'm currenty running. and that there is a good
chance that it could work very well. Guess I just have more reading
generally on the subject XPe to do.
S
Slobodan Brcin
5) Yep
For hibernation, HDD is probably the fastest medium you can get with budget
on your mind.
Few HDD's in RAID should do the trick is speeding boot.
Regards,
Slobodan
For hibernation, HDD is probably the fastest medium you can get with budget
on your mind.
Few HDD's in RAID should do the trick is speeding boot.
Regards,
Slobodan
W
Wayne Taylor
Let Me know how you get on.
W
Wayne Taylor
Hello
I've just been looking at the mediaengine.org this looks like intresting
stuff. Could you e-mail me please so we can discuss?
Thanks
Wayne
I've just been looking at the mediaengine.org this looks like intresting
stuff. Could you e-mail me please so we can discuss?
Thanks
Wayne
M
MeatballTurbo
First you need to find some really fast CF
I guess fast means expensive
Was lookign at a 512meg card on linitx com.
From hibernation hopefully 20 secs, quicker if possible.
Processor is an Epia M Nehmiah 10000 on a Mini-ITX board.
M
MeatballTurbo
Wayne. i'm just a mediaengine user.
But the creators of mediaengine use the forums on http://www.mp3car.com,
and all can be contacted on there.
It has it's own subforum in the software development area.
M
MeatballTurbo
Problem with raid in a car is
1) Space. The ultimate goal is a 1 din Car hifi sized system (hence mini
ITX ATM, and then Nano ITX when available) with a second 1 din slot for
a fold away screen, or a fixed screen with the PC built into the same
box, of roughly 2 din in size.
2) Power. Car 12v on an alternator. Want to keep power consumption down
to a minimum, hance mini-ITX, CF and Laptop HDD. Currently using a
300watt inverter, but hoping eventually to run the whole system off a
DC-DC ATX PSU with a 9-15v DC input, regulated to 12v, and running all
the PC accessories directly.
S
Slobodan Brcin
First you need to make as smallest image as possible, less than 64 MB would
be good start.
CF is not a good solution for hibernation.
If media player is required then I don't know what size we are talking
about, but if you can use only codec's then you can do it.
Normal boot from HDD with light image is possible within timing you
specified, but I don't know anything about hardware you mention. So you will
need to test it for your self.
You can boot much faster, but it depends on many factors.
Regards,
Slobodan
be good start.
CF is not a good solution for hibernation.
If media player is required then I don't know what size we are talking
about, but if you can use only codec's then you can do it.
Normal boot from HDD with light image is possible within timing you
specified, but I don't know anything about hardware you mention. So you will
need to test it for your self.
You can boot much faster, but it depends on many factors.
Regards,
Slobodan
S
Slobodan Brcin
Of course, and because of vibrations, HDD won't be good solution anyway.
You need to see if your device can withstand this environment.
The fastest flash based medium I saw technical characteristics had read
speed of 8 MB/s.
So you can do the math.
There are probably faster devices, but I can't even imagine the price
Regards,
Slobodan
You need to see if your device can withstand this environment.
The fastest flash based medium I saw technical characteristics had read
speed of 8 MB/s.
So you can do the math.
There are probably faster devices, but I can't even imagine the price
Regards,
Slobodan
M
MeatballTurbo
Of course, and because of vibrations, HDD won't be good solution anyway.
You need to see if your device can withstand this environment.
The fastest flash based medium I saw technical characteristics had read
speed of 8 MB/s.
So you can do the math.
There are probably faster devices, but I can't even imagine the price
Yep, that is what it always boils down to, a fine balancing act of price
V speed.
My GF is sick of me spending out on "Projects", and while it is
currently just for me, the plan is hopefully have something viable for
custom installs that will cost far less than a standard full car
multimedia system (DVD multichanger, MP3 playback, Digital quality
sound, DSP, GPS(SatNav)). Currently a good system with all those
features in a car can cost upwards of £5000 done properly, and uses lots
of seperate boxes.
My £500 install had all those features (except DVD multichanger but a
big enough HDD could hold mountable DVD images anyway), including 60 MP3
albums, sat NAV, and a 10.4" VGA touch screen TFT, instead of a fuzzy
7" widescreen Composite one + the cost of the OS. And it was smaller,
and interfaced with the standard radio.
G
Guest
Hey MeatballTurbo, gotta tell me how you came up with that
name
anyway.
I too have a car computer project, plus im a programmer at
my company looking into using XP embedded. I have created
a embedded image for my car computer running media player
8. Media player 9 will be coming out with xp embedded
service pack 2. With all the components installed and
built my image came out to 202 megs. Now I have not been
picky and tried to get this size down. Im looking at
using a 256 compact flash in the future to boot my
system...right now it boots on a 120 gig drive. Also my
boot times are too high (about 1 minute counting the bios
boot. OS boot = 25 seconds). My motherboard is the
slowest booting motherboard i have ever owned. I expect
to get this under 30 sec in the future. The absolute
smallest image you can EVER make with XP I believe is 8
megs (or close to it). The smallest image you can make
with CE I believe is 500k (or close to it). Thats without
all the good stuff to make it do what you want. Media
player adds a good chunk of size to your image, about 80
megs. Thats with dvd playback and medie technologies
added.
Now im looking at making mine a kiosk image which allows
me to just shutdown by killing the power but you have all
the options xp pro gives you at your disposal. So
hibernate, etc, if you want. Hope this helps ya. Post
back if you have anymore questions. Good luck on your
project! Embedded is the way to go forsure.
Here is a run down of my system currently.
Software:
USB FM radio (maybe satellite in the future), DVD, CD,
MPS, GPS, Internet (sprint pcs) all embedded into my own
custom player using media player 9 sdk.
Hardware: (in a full size bronco)
Custom Case (10x10x7)
1.3gig MicroATX (4 pci slots)
1 gig sd133 ram
64 meg NVIDIA AGP
500watt inverter
14 inch touchscreen
Audigy 2 soundcard
Wireless network
120 gig western
5 port USB pci
USb FM antenna
USB gps
Gyration wireless keyboard
name
anyway.I too have a car computer project, plus im a programmer at
my company looking into using XP embedded. I have created
a embedded image for my car computer running media player
8. Media player 9 will be coming out with xp embedded
service pack 2. With all the components installed and
built my image came out to 202 megs. Now I have not been
picky and tried to get this size down. Im looking at
using a 256 compact flash in the future to boot my
system...right now it boots on a 120 gig drive. Also my
boot times are too high (about 1 minute counting the bios
boot. OS boot = 25 seconds). My motherboard is the
slowest booting motherboard i have ever owned. I expect
to get this under 30 sec in the future. The absolute
smallest image you can EVER make with XP I believe is 8
megs (or close to it). The smallest image you can make
with CE I believe is 500k (or close to it). Thats without
all the good stuff to make it do what you want. Media
player adds a good chunk of size to your image, about 80
megs. Thats with dvd playback and medie technologies
added.
Now im looking at making mine a kiosk image which allows
me to just shutdown by killing the power but you have all
the options xp pro gives you at your disposal. So
hibernate, etc, if you want. Hope this helps ya. Post
back if you have anymore questions. Good luck on your
project! Embedded is the way to go forsure.
Here is a run down of my system currently.
Software:
USB FM radio (maybe satellite in the future), DVD, CD,
MPS, GPS, Internet (sprint pcs) all embedded into my own
custom player using media player 9 sdk.
Hardware: (in a full size bronco)
Custom Case (10x10x7)
1.3gig MicroATX (4 pci slots)
1 gig sd133 ram
64 meg NVIDIA AGP
500watt inverter
14 inch touchscreen
Audigy 2 soundcard
Wireless network
120 gig western
5 port USB pci
USb FM antenna
USB gps
Gyration wireless keyboard
B
bgreaves
forgot to identify myself. im the post with the car
computer.
computer.
M
MeatballTurbo
Hey MeatballTurbo, gotta tell me how you came up with that
name
I drive an old Saab (Swedish as in Meatball) 900 Turbo 16v.
That is useful to know, so I won't waste time trying to build a
finalised image, while waiting for MP9 (required component for Media
Engine 2 http://www.mediaengine.org).
Right now, I'm using a standard 30/40 (can't remember) gig HDD for both
OS and storage. Hoping to use somekind of solid state as an OS drive,
and HDD(preferably laptop as they are smaller and last better).
I find the mini ITX epia boards excellent as they are just bigger than a
CD jewel case 17cm x17cm. the Nano ITX standard will be even better with
12cmx12cm footprint size for the board. boot time for the 1ghz is OK.
and as long as you aren't planning major 3d gaming, I haven't had any
trouble with running DivX and DVD on it.
I'm torn between using hibernate for a faster startup, and kisok style
for a straight power on/off.
As I said previously, I'm using Media Engine, which is a very nice
application, or even shell for windows that covers Video, audio, radio
using a D-Link USB radio, plus you can launch external apps at the push
of a button 9although people are working on building in Destinator,
Mappoint, and Co-Pilot controls so you can manipulate the maps and
applications direct from the Mediaengine front end.
I did have a 1.3 Duron box that I used for a while, but ofund it took up
far too much space in the trunk/boot.
I need to sort out USB radio, so I can ditch the headunit and go stright
to an AMP, dc-dc power, so that I can lose the 300 watt inverter I use,
and solid state booting from an embedded OS. Between those few bits, m,y
Car PC would be just about done
M
MeatballTurbo
bgreaves@exeter- said:
I'm beginning to think that a 60gig HDD, with embedded XP, Mappoint,
WMP9 when available, and Media engine might be the way forward for this
project.
Better resilience than a desktop HDD, and much cheaper and higher
capacity then a DoC or Flash card. Plus if I was to create the image as
swap less, less posibility of damaging the disk if I just power off.
B
bgreaves
I'm beginning to think that a 60gig HDD, with embedded
XP, Mappoint,
I agree. I really considered windows CE but there are a
limited amount of drivers right now. But I love its power
up and down times. Its more like a PDA. Im also
considering a compact flash for the OS only and have my
120 gig for storage. The flash may increase the boot
times alittle bit and with no writting to the flash, like
you said, powering off with the power wont hurt anything.
I have had my computer installed for a month now, and the
boot time is the main issue right now. Windows 2000 1 min
30 sec. A car computer has to boot under 30 sec or its
just going to get old fast i think, specially if you want
to sell commercially, which i think is a good idea.
XP, Mappoint,
power off.
I agree. I really considered windows CE but there are a
limited amount of drivers right now. But I love its power
up and down times. Its more like a PDA. Im also
considering a compact flash for the OS only and have my
120 gig for storage. The flash may increase the boot
times alittle bit and with no writting to the flash, like
you said, powering off with the power wont hurt anything.
I have had my computer installed for a month now, and the
boot time is the main issue right now. Windows 2000 1 min
30 sec. A car computer has to boot under 30 sec or its
just going to get old fast i think, specially if you want
to sell commercially, which i think is a good idea.