[PL] Ware Glossary - Annual Review

[Dick Hazeleger]

Adware >> in my book, regardless of what it is that it tries to get
you to buy. >> If a freeware program displays ads for itself that's
not encouraging >> you to buy.

No, its not.

BUT!!!
If the intended use of the program is to create something you send
to others, it is an ad. To your recipients, it's an ad.

as >> a means of persuasion?

Not everyone is discerning as you. But the author may be trying to
persuade non-users to use their program. A benign example are those
occasional posts with "certified virus free" addended. But, at
least in AVG, you can turn that off.


True. I think I may be the only one that has (negatively).


I will, and should, save further comments for that thread.

Hi Dewey...

Could you clarify this with specifics to two examples (and before I get
fried here... they are just that... examples!!!)

1. Opera... has a static ad in the free version, but when you would
visit for instance my site... it wouldn't be send at me. Adware or not?

2. WinPDF, free, but it tags every page with a line saying that the PDF
was made with the free version PDF printer-driver... Adware or not?

If you (general meaning) are very 'puristic' about this then both are
adware; if you're not then only no 2. will qualify...

One thing we must observe in this whole discussion is that we should be
aware though that being very strict (or as I called it: 'puristic')
about it will make us loose quite a number of very good programs, and
the question is: Do we want this, or even more close to it: With all
the programs going to Shareware... can we afford this?

Greetings to the group,
Dick

 

[Susan Bugher]

5/5/2005

This is a *draft* - for review and comments before we begin the actual
poll. Revisions will be made if needed and then the poll will be posted
in a separate thread.

There are three parts to the poll: revisions to the ware glossary,
acceptable/unacceptable for PL2006 and On Topic - Off Topic for discussion.

The ACF Ware Glossary is here:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php

Revisions have been proposed for several of the ware types. The present
definition is shown first followed by the proposed revision(s).

LEAVE the definition you prefer. REMOVE definitions you do not wish to
vote for.

***************************************
ACF Ware Glossary - Proposed revisions
***************************************

Adware: software that displays advertising for other products and/or
services (often downloaded from the internet by the software).

Adware: Software that displays advertising for other products and/or
services. (The advertising is often downloaded from the internet by the
software.)

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others (The advertising is often downloaded from the
internet by the software).

--------------

Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

Freeware: Software that you can obtain legally at no cost
(monetary or otherwise) and use for as long as you wish at no cost
(monetary or otherwise).

-------

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program. Registerware may require
re-registration for continued use after a period of time has elapsed,
before reinstallation etc. etc.


********************************************************
Pricelessware 2006 Procedures - acceptable/unacceptable
********************************************************

LEAVE the choices you agree with. REMOVE choices you do not wish to vote
for.

---------

Abandonware and Orphanware *non-Warez*
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Abandonware and Orphanware *Warez*
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Betaware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Donationware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Freeware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Liteware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Registerware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Requestware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Adware:
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

CDWare
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Commercial Software
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Crippleware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Demo-ware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Malware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Nagware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Shareware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Spyware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Trialware
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Warez
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination


************************************
Opinion Poll - On Topic - Off Topic
************************************

alt.comp.freeware is an unmoderated newsgroup. The opinion poll lets
newsgroup participants express their views on the type of software they
*prefer* to see discussed. A summary of this poll will be shown on the
ACF web pages.

LEAVE the opinion that you agree with. REMOVE the other choices. REMOVE
all choices if you do not wish to express an opinion on a ware type
(leave the name of the ware).

---------

Abandonware and Orphanware *non-Warez*
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Abandonware and Orphanware *Warez*
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Adware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Betaware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

CDWare
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Commercial Software
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Crippleware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Demo-ware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Donationware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Freeware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Liteware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Malware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Nagware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Orphanware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Registerware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Requestware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Shareware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Spyware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Trialware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Warez
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

**********************

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

5/5/2005

This is a *draft* - for review and comments before we begin the
actual poll. Revisions will be made if needed and then the poll
will be posted in a separate thread.

LEAVE the definition you prefer. REMOVE definitions you do not
wish to vote for.

In the future, you might want to leave out the voting instructions when
posting drafts. I think those instructions have worked pretty well and
don't need more discussion.

***************************************
ACF Ware Glossary - Proposed revisions
***************************************

Adware: software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services (often downloaded from the internet by the
software).

Adware: Software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services. (The advertising is often downloaded from the
internet by the software.)

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or
services produced by others (The advertising is often downloaded
from the internet by the software).

Since I've expressed the opinion that any software that delivers ads is
adware, I guess I should try to formulate another def:

Adware: Software which displays advertising while it is running.
(The advertising is often downloaded from the internet by the
software.)

The "while it is running" part is meant to exclude software that puts
ads in its /output/ as opposed to software that shows the person using
the software the ads. I tried to exclude those because I am really
unclear about how the group feels about them. I don't use any, but
IIRC Belarc Advisor tags its output with an ad, Grisoft by default puts
an ad at the bottom of its users' e-mails, and there is some PDF
generator that puts ads on its output. I don't have any problem with
calling apps like that adware as well, so here's another:

Adware: Software which displays advertising. (The advertising is
often downloaded from the internet by the software.)

********************************************************
Pricelessware 2006 Procedures - acceptable/unacceptable
********************************************************

************************************
Opinion Poll - On Topic - Off Topic
************************************

IMO it would be better to keep PL procedure discussions separate from
a.c.f opinion polls as much as possible, though it is good to have
reminders that the a.c.f wares glossary is referenced when PL policy is
considered.

 

[coolchinchilla]

5/5/2005

***************************************
ACF Ware Glossary - Proposed revisions
***************************************

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others (The advertising is often downloaded from the
internet by the software).

--------------

Freeware: Software that you can obtain legally at no cost
(monetary or otherwise) and use for as long as you wish at no cost
(monetary or otherwise).

-------
Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program. Registerware may require
re-registration for continued use after a period of time has elapsed,
before reinstallation etc. etc.


********************************************************
Pricelessware 2006 Procedures - acceptable/unacceptable
********************************************************

LEAVE the choices you agree with. REMOVE choices you do not wish to vote
for.

Abandonware and Orphanware *Warez*
is not acceptable for nomination

Betaware
is acceptable for nomination

Donationware

Freeware
is acceptable for nomination

Liteware
is acceptable for nomination

Registerware
is acceptable for nomination

Requestware
is acceptable for nomination

Adware:
is acceptable for nomination

CDWare
is acceptable for nomination

Commercial Software
is not acceptable for nomination

Crippleware
is not acceptable for nomination

Demo-ware
is not acceptable for nomination

Malware
is not acceptable for nomination

Nagware
is acceptable for nomination

Shareware
is not acceptable for nomination

Spyware
is not acceptable for nomination

Trialware
is not acceptable for nomination

Warez
is not acceptable for nomination


************************************
Opinion Poll - On Topic - Off Topic
************************************

alt.comp.freeware is an unmoderated newsgroup. The opinion poll lets
newsgroup participants express their views on the type of software they
*prefer* to see discussed. A summary of this poll will be shown on the
ACF web pages.

LEAVE the opinion that you agree with. REMOVE the other choices. REMOVE
all choices if you do not wish to express an opinion on a ware type
(leave the name of the ware).

Abandonware and Orphanware *Warez*
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Adware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss

Betaware
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss

CDWare
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

Commercial Software
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

Crippleware
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

Demo-ware
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

Donationware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss

Freeware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss

Liteware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss

Malware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss

Nagware
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss

Orphanware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss

Registerware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss

Requestware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss

Shareware
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

Spyware
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

This was just a draft. The poll, after being revised, will be posted
in a separate thread. Please stay tuned.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

In the future, you might want to leave out the voting instructions
when posting drafts. I think those instructions have worked
pretty well and don't need more discussion.

Just to be clear, I suggested that because otherwise people will go
ahead with voting despite the notice thta it's a draft of the poll.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Just to be clear, I suggested that because otherwise people will go
ahead with voting despite the notice thta it's a draft of the poll.

Yup - understood - might happen anyway. What we need is one of those big
diagonal DRAFT stamps. (FWIW - I included the instructions thinking
*newbies* might have questions about them.)

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://groups.google.no/groups?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware&hl=en
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Susan Bugher]

Since I've expressed the opinion that any software that delivers ads is
adware, I guess I should try to formulate another def:

Adware: Software which displays advertising while it is running.
(The advertising is often downloaded from the internet by the
software.)

The "while it is running" part is meant to exclude software that puts
ads in its /output/ as opposed to software that shows the person using
the software the ads. I tried to exclude those because I am really
unclear about how the group feels about them. I don't use any, but
IIRC Belarc Advisor tags its output with an ad, Grisoft by default puts
an ad at the bottom of its users' e-mails, and there is some PDF
generator that puts ads on its output. I don't have any problem with
calling apps like that adware as well, so here's another:

Adware: Software which displays advertising. (The advertising is
often downloaded from the internet by the software.)

ISTM that the Adware definition you're aiming for would classify some
PL2005 programs as Adware. IMO if we make a change of that type in the
Ware Glossary we should nominate PL2006 apps according to the revised
definition and make the change in the ACF Ware Glossary effective when
PL2006 becomes official.

I think we should finalize the Adware definition before proceeding to
the other items in the poll since it appears there could be a
*substantive* change and that might affect the voting on whether Adware
is acceptable/ unacceptable for the PL and discussion in the newsgroup.

I'll propose this for the Adware definition:

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others (the advertising is often downloaded from the
internet by the software).

I suggest we have only one other proposed definition. I'd like to keep
moving on this - finalize the two alternatives - take a day or two to
see if we have enough response to agree on the consensus - if not put it
to a vote - and then proceed with the rest of the poll.

ISTM the alternate definition *might* be clearer if it read something
like this:

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others (the advertising is often downloaded from the
internet by the software) or self-advertising.

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://groups.google.no/groups?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware&hl=en
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Dewey Edwards]

Hi Dewey...

Could you clarify this with specifics to two examples (and before I get
fried here... they are just that... examples!!!)

1. Opera... has a static ad in the free version, but when you would
visit for instance my site... it wouldn't be send at me. Adware or not?
Adware.

2. WinPDF, free, but it tags every page with a line saying that the PDF
was made with the free version PDF printer-driver... Adware or not?
Adware.

If you (general meaning) are very 'puristic' about this then both are
adware; if you're not then only no 2. will qualify...

Actually, I find one and two very different. If you were to have
chosen to use "free" Opera, only you would see those ads, I
definitely won't. Your choice and many have chosen to do so. Now
with number two, "only you seeing the ad", is NOT true. Your
choice to use an adware program now suddenly affects others (viewers
of your PDF work product). This question actually arose because of
a greeting card program that tags every card. Greeting cards are
meant to be sent to others.

One thing we must observe in this whole discussion is that we should be
aware though that being very strict (or as I called it: 'puristic')
about it will make us loose quite a number of very good programs, and
the question is: Do we want this, or even more close to it: With all
the programs going to Shareware... can we afford this?

We both know that the term *Adware* encompasses a lot of territory.
From the relatively benign (eg Opera) to spyware snakepits (Web3000
comes to mind). Perhaps the term *Adware* is used to cover too much
territory. Some in this group have suggested "Logoware" for your
number two. Not freeware, but maybe an acceptable category for
recommended programs in this NG. It's an NG question.

Just don't send me a greeting card announcing the results.

WARNING: I use a text based newsreader. This post has NOT been checked for viruses. If you save it and change the extension to .exe, your on your own.

 

[David]

5/5/2005

This is a *draft* - for review and comments before we begin the actual
poll. Revisions will be made if needed and then the poll will be posted
in a separate thread.

There are three parts to the poll: revisions to the ware glossary,
acceptable/unacceptable for PL2006 and On Topic - Off Topic for discussion.

The ACF Ware Glossary is here:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php

Revisions have been proposed for several of the ware types. The present
definition is shown first followed by the proposed revision(s).

LEAVE the definition you prefer. REMOVE definitions you do not wish to
vote for.

***************************************
ACF Ware Glossary - Proposed revisions
***************************************

Adware: Software that displays advertising for other products and/or
services. (The advertising is often downloaded from the internet by the
software.)

--------------

Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

Freeware: Software that you can obtain legally at no cost
(monetary or otherwise) and use for as long as you wish at no cost
(monetary or otherwise).
Either.
-------

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program. Registerware may require
re-registration for continued use after a period of time has elapsed,
before reinstallation etc. etc.


********************************************************
Pricelessware 2006 Procedures - acceptable/unacceptable
********************************************************

LEAVE the choices you agree with. REMOVE choices you do not wish to vote
for.

---------

Abandonware and Orphanware *non-Warez*
is acceptable for nomination

Abandonware and Orphanware *Warez*
is not acceptable for nomination

Betaware
is not acceptable for nomination

Donationware
is acceptable for nomination

Freeware
is acceptable for nomination

Liteware
is acceptable for nomination

Registerware
is acceptable for nomination

Requestware
is acceptable for nomination

Adware:
is not acceptable for nomination

CDWare
is acceptable for nomination
is not acceptable for nomination

Commercial Software
is not acceptable for nomination

Crippleware
is not acceptable for nomination

Demo-ware
is not acceptable for nomination

Malware
is not acceptable for nomination

Nagware
is not acceptable for nomination

Shareware
is acceptable for nomination

Spyware
is not acceptable for nomination

Trialware
is not acceptable for nomination

Warez
is not acceptable for nomination


************************************
Opinion Poll - On Topic - Off Topic
************************************

alt.comp.freeware is an unmoderated newsgroup. The opinion poll lets
newsgroup participants express their views on the type of software they
*prefer* to see discussed. A summary of this poll will be shown on the
ACF web pages.

LEAVE the opinion that you agree with. REMOVE the other choices. REMOVE
all choices if you do not wish to express an opinion on a ware type
(leave the name of the ware).

---------

Abandonware and Orphanware *non-Warez*
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Abandonware and Orphanware *Warez*
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Adware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss

Betaware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss

CDWare

Commercial Software
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

Crippleware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Demo-ware
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Donationware
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss

Freeware
a) on-topic - always okay to discuss

Liteware
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss

Malware
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Nagware
b) on-topic - usually okay to discuss

Orphanware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Registerware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Requestware
d) off-topic - brief mention sometimes okay (for comparison etc.)

Shareware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss

Spyware
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

Trialware
c) ???-topic - sometimes okay to discuss

Warez
e) off-topic - discuss only when a warning is needed

**********************

 

[Susan Bugher]

»Q« wrote:

Upon reflection. . .

Since "downloaded from the internet by the software" is not a *criteria*
ISTM your definition should be simply: Adware: Software that displays
advertising.

If there are no objections I'll finalize the ballot/opinion poll with
these two alternatives for the Adware definitions:

Adware: Software that displays advertising.

Adware: Software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others.

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://groups.google.no/groups?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware&hl=en
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Since "downloaded from the internet by the software" is not a
*criteria* ISTM your definition should be simply: Adware: Software
that displays advertising.

You're right that it's not a criteria, but we do have such
informative parentheticals in other definitions, e.g. "(usually
without your knowledge and consent)" in the one for spyware. Though
the info is not a criterion if the only goal is to apply a litmus
test to a piece of software, I think it serves a purpose. That
said, I wouldn't hold up a vote over whether or not to include it.

If there are no objections I'll finalize the ballot/opinion poll
with these two alternatives for the Adware definitions:

Adware: Software that displays advertising.

Adware: Software that displays advertising for products and/or
services produced by others.

IIRC, that second one was an attempt to clarify the current
definition, but it doesn't match my understanding of the current one,

Adware: software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services (often downloaded from the internet by the
software).

I don't know what to do but ask again why we would want to say that
software which advertises products or services made by the same people
is not adware. I don't have an example handy, so I'll make one up.
If Heidi decided to use the (now freeware) Eraser to deliver ads for
its payware NoTrax, would any of us really want to say that Eraser was
not adware? (Heidi's version at least -- since Eraser is OSS, someone
could release a binary without the ads.)

 

[Susan Bugher]

You're right that it's not a criteria, but we do have such
informative parentheticals in other definitions, e.g. "(usually
without your knowledge and consent)" in the one for spyware. Though
the info is not a criterion if the only goal is to apply a litmus
test to a piece of software, I think it serves a purpose. That
said, I wouldn't hold up a vote over whether or not to include it.


IIRC, that second one was an attempt to clarify the current
definition, but it doesn't match my understanding of the current one,

ISTM that's the problem with the current definition - it's *understood*
differently by different people.

Adware: software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services (often downloaded from the internet by the
software).

I don't know what to do but ask again why we would want to say that
software which advertises products or services made by the same people
is not adware. I don't have an example handy, so I'll make one up.
If Heidi decided to use the (now freeware) Eraser to deliver ads for
its payware NoTrax, would any of us really want to say that Eraser was
not adware? (Heidi's version at least -- since Eraser is OSS, someone
could release a binary without the ads.)

ISTM the opinion poll may answer that question for you. I'm hoping for a
good turn out. I'm about ready to post it - just stopped over here for a
break.

I'm trying to keep things moving, not steam-roll something through. We
can continue the discussion during/after the poll and have another vote
if that seems advisable.

Susan
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[Mel]

You're right that it's not a criteria, but we do have such
informative parentheticals in other definitions, e.g. "(usually
without your knowledge and consent)" in the one for spyware. Though
the info is not a criterion if the only goal is to apply a litmus
test to a piece of software, I think it serves a purpose. That
said, I wouldn't hold up a vote over whether or not to include it.


IIRC, that second one was an attempt to clarify the current
definition, but it doesn't match my understanding of the current one,

Adware: software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services (often downloaded from the internet by the
software).

I don't know what to do but ask again why we would want to say that
software which advertises products or services made by the same people
is not adware. I don't have an example handy, so I'll make one up.
If Heidi decided to use the (now freeware) Eraser to deliver ads for
its payware NoTrax, would any of us really want to say that Eraser was
not adware? (Heidi's version at least -- since Eraser is OSS, someone
could release a binary without the ads.)

Ad-supported client - A definition

An Ad-supported client is any software application in which
advertisements are displayed while the program is running. The authors
of these applications include additional code that delivers the ads,
which can be viewed through pop-up windows or through a bar that appears
on a computer screen. The justification for ad-supported client is that
it helps recover programming development cost and helps to hold down the
cost for the user.

Adware - A definition

Adware is any software application which displays advertisements while
the program is running.

Foistware - A definition

Foistware is software which is installed with completely unrelated
programs. That means that there is no particular property in the
software that makes it Foistware, but rather the context in which it was
installed.

Example of foistware:
An Internet Explorer search toolbar bundled with a MP3 player.
An anti-virus program bundled with a word processor.

Developers of free sofware with large distribution sometimes get paid to
bundle unrelated software with their software. The Foistware in most
cases mentioned in the End User License Agreement. Example of software
that include unrelated software is Kazaa, iMesh, BikiniDesk, etc.

Spyware - A definition

"Spyware is ANY SOFTWARE which employs a user's Internet connection in
the background (the so-called "backchannel") without their knowledge or
explicit permission. Silent background use of an Internet "backchannel"
connection MUST BE PRECEDED by a complete and truthful disclosure of
proposed backchannel usage, followed by the receipt of explicit,
informed, consent for such use. ANY SOFTWARE communicating across the
Internet absent these elements is guilty of information theft and is
properly and rightfully termed: Spyware."

 

[Susan Bugher]

You're right that it's not a criteria, but we do have such
informative parentheticals in other definitions, e.g. "(usually
without your knowledge and consent)" in the one for spyware. Though
the info is not a criterion if the only goal is to apply a litmus
test to a piece of software, I think it serves a purpose. That
said, I wouldn't hold up a vote over whether or not to include it.

It's my recollection that the parenthetical information in our current
definitions *is* supposed to be the litmus test - both for Spyware and
Adware. You did not want the test for adware to be "(often downloaded
from the internet by the software)" so ISTM it was better to remove that
clause.

In the case of the Spyware definition there's a bit of hedging to cover
unusual circumstances: "(*usually* without your knowledge and consent)".
That's for such things as "But what if you know it's sending information
home?" (even though the app didn't tell you) and cases where the phone
home information is presented *clearly* at the time of installation (for
example: the Google Toolbar).

IIRC "often downloaded" is the same kind of hedge for unusual
circumstances and the general test was intended to be "downloaded from
the internet". That's the way I remember the original discussion - FWIW.

ISTM the original intention is a bit of a moot point - as we're dealing
with present interpretations. . .

Susan
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[Susan Bugher]

Ad-supported client - A definition

An Ad-supported client is any software application in which
advertisements are displayed while the program is running. The authors
of these applications include additional code that delivers the ads,
which can be viewed through pop-up windows or through a bar that appears
on a computer screen. The justification for ad-supported client is that
it helps recover programming development cost and helps to hold down the
cost for the user.

Adware - A definition

Adware is any software application which displays advertisements while
the program is running.

Foistware - A definition

Foistware is software which is installed with completely unrelated
programs. That means that there is no particular property in the
software that makes it Foistware, but rather the context in which it was
installed.

Example of foistware:
An Internet Explorer search toolbar bundled with a MP3 player.
An anti-virus program bundled with a word processor.

Developers of free sofware with large distribution sometimes get paid to
bundle unrelated software with their software. The Foistware in most
cases mentioned in the End User License Agreement. Example of software
that include unrelated software is Kazaa, iMesh, BikiniDesk, etc.

Spyware - A definition

"Spyware is ANY SOFTWARE which employs a user's Internet connection in
the background (the so-called "backchannel") without their knowledge or
explicit permission. Silent background use of an Internet "backchannel"
connection MUST BE PRECEDED by a complete and truthful disclosure of
proposed backchannel usage, followed by the receipt of explicit,
informed, consent for such use. ANY SOFTWARE communicating across the
Internet absent these elements is guilty of information theft and is
properly and rightfully termed: Spyware."

You're too late for the ballot with those proposed definitions - it's
has been posted. OTOH - it's not over till it's over - if there's
support for your definitions a second ballot is a possibility.

Susan
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[Dick Hazeleger]

those >> occasional posts with "certified virus free" addended. But,
at >> least in AVG, you can turn that off.
opinion >> > on previous ACF threads as this one has elicited almost
no comment. >>
ISTM >> > the best thing to do is include them as choices in the
opinion >> > poll. I'll post a draft of that for comments.

Adware.

Agree in both accounts, technically speaking; see below.

Actually, I find one and two very different. If you were to have
chosen to use "free" Opera, only you would see those ads, I
definitely won't. Your choice and many have chosen to do so. Now
with number two, "only you seeing the ad", is NOT true. Your
choice to use an adware program now suddenly affects others (viewers
of your PDF work product). This question actually arose because of
a greeting card program that tags every card. Greeting cards are
meant to be sent to others.

Oh, but they are quite different, that is why I picked those two, and I
didn't even care to mention those that will get their ads from the
internet (without all the spying, spyware does). For the type of adware
like in No. 1 I can have some sympathy (static ad displayed), for the
others I absolutely don't.

We both know that the term Adware encompasses a lot of territory.
From the relatively benign (eg Opera) to spyware snakepits (Web3000
comes to mind). Perhaps the term Adware is used to cover too much
territory. Some in this group have suggested "Logoware" for your
number two. Not freeware, but maybe an acceptable category for
recommended programs in this NG. It's an NG question.

I know too well what you mean, and I think lists, or recommendations,
from the NG could be very valuable if they would show more 'diversity'
in the adware labeling. Adware doesn't have to be bad, as long as it
doesn't go into the realm of spyware, that is. What value a program has
for a particular user of it depends IMO on a) how visible the ad is;
and b) where (just in the program, or like in example 2. in its output.
The ads I mean of course are the static ones.

Just don't send me a greeting card announcing the results.

WARNING: I use a text based newsreader. This post has NOT been
checked for viruses. If you save it and change the extension to
.exe, your on your own.

Greetings to the group,

Dick

 

[Susan Bugher]

discussed in the [PL] Ware Glossary - Annual Review thread.

Don't call it 'and opinion' than. ;-) The Annual Review thread is
not within a part of my newsreader, anymore, where I would recognize
it. Btw.: Why did you start a *ballot* at this time at all??

There is disagreement about the meaning of our current Adware
description. A group decision is needed and there were not enough
participants in the discussion to determine what the consensus is.

It is an opinion poll -> "alt.comp.freeware is an unmoderated newsgroup.
The opinion poll lets newsgroup participants express their views on the
type of software they *prefer* to see discussed. A summary of this poll
will be shown on the ACF web pages."

*and* an advisory vote.

Huh? You just initiated a ballot: to get different opinions -> to

start a discussion -> to have enough opinions to select some to vote on
-> to start the next ballot -> to... Or did I miss something?!! ;-)

Laughing,
BeAr

I figured I had to call it a Ballot or someone would claim I was
*hiding* things. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. . .

We need adequate discussion and adequate participation in the discussion
- ISTM we should continue the discussion, have another vote if needed
etc. etc. - IMO the important thing is to reach a *valid* consensus on
the definition of Adware, one that represents the wishes of the majority
of newsgroup participants.

Directory Lister and ePrompter were at the storm center of the
discussion last year. Belarc Advisor has been mentioned, also Just Right
Click Greeting Card. I think it would be helpful to classify these apps
and others in accordance with *proposed* definitions of Adware.

IMO all of the above apps would be Adware is the definition is: "Adware:
Software that displays advertising."

IMO none of them would be Adware if the definition is: "Adware: Software
that displays advertising for products and/or services produced by others."

Susan
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