[PL] Ware Glossary - Annual Review

  • Thread starter Thread starter Susan Bugher
  • Start date Start date
Mel said:
If you must give it a name, why not Activation-Ware: as per
MS's XP.
Click to expand...

I think the key ;) is to define keyed. I was focused on keys that
require re-registration. ISTM that if the ware type is noted as
"Registerware-keyed" people will be alerted and can check out the
details - which vary considerably from app to app.
I would also suggest a distinction between Adware - which
may use you internet connection or interfere with other programs,
display pop-ups etc; And banner/sponsor ware - where the ads
are wholly integral to the program and have no adverse effects.
Click to expand...

Examples please?

Susan
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Susan said:
This is the second annual review of alt.comp.freeware's Ware Glossary.
Click to expand...

Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

proposed revision:

Freeware: Software that you can obtain legally at no cost (monetary or
otherwise) and use for as long as you wish at no cost (monetary or
otherwise).

---------

Adware: software that displays advertising for other products and/or
services (often downloaded from the internet by the software).

proposed revision:

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others (often downloaded from the internet by the software).

-----------

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program.

proposed revision:

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program. Registerware may be keyed to a
serial number, a period of time, your hard drive, your email address
etc. etc. Registerware may require re-registration for continued use
after a period of time has elapsed, before reinstallation etc. etc.

--------

Susan
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Susan said:
Adware: software that displays advertising for other products and/or
services (often downloaded from the internet by the software).

proposed revision:

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others (often downloaded from the internet by the software).
Click to expand...

Will that mean that Opera is "off the hook" ?...

*others* is the key word.

regards from vegard

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

My sites:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Solitaire MahJongg: http://home.halden.net/vkp/vkp/
Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire: http://home.halden.net/vkp/
Freeware Logo & symbol: http://home.no/buffy2/
Chinese Checkers: http://home.no.net/vkp/
Pachisi & Ludo: http://home.no.net/vkp3/
My fishy site (fishing games): http://home.no/vkp32/
a.c.f.g information: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acfg/acfg.php
18+ - Adult Solitaire: http://home.no.net/rachel12/
18+ - Fishy Pictures: http://home.no.net/rachel12/fishy/
Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb: http://www.fredrikshald-havfiske.no
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

proposed revision:

Freeware: Software that you can obtain legally at no cost
(monetary or otherwise) and use for as long as you wish at no cost
(monetary or otherwise).
Click to expand...

I very much like the proposed revision. I like it so much that I
can't even recall my own lame attempts to reword the old
definition. :)
Adware: software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services (often downloaded from the internet by the
software).

proposed revision:

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or
services produced by others (often downloaded from the internet by
the software).
Click to expand...

Why do we rule out software which displays ads for products made by
the same people? IOW, if company X makes software A and software B,
and software A displays ads for software B, shouldn't we call
software A adware? Was this to get around the sticky issue of
software which embeds "self-ads" in reports or other documents it
produces?

I guess instead of just posing questions, I should propose an
alternate revision:

Adware: Software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services. (The advertising is often downloaded from the
internet by the software.)
 
Vegard said:
Susan Bugher wrote:

Will that mean that Opera is "off the hook" ?...

*others* is the key word.
Click to expand...

It's still there. IMO "products and/or services produced by others" is
better wording than "other products and/or services". I'm not trying to
change the meaning.

Susan
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Will that mean that Opera is "off the hook" ?...

*others* is the key word.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? Right now, Opera 8 is showing me an ad for an XM
receiver from Circuit City, 119.99 USD installed. (I have the random
graphical ad option selected.) AFAIK, Opera only shows self-ads if it
cannot manage to connect to the server to update the ads it would like
to show.
 
»Q« said:
<news:[email protected]>:

Why do we rule out software which displays ads for products made by
the same people? IOW, if company X makes software A and software B,
and software A displays ads for software B, shouldn't we call
software A adware? Was this to get around the sticky issue of
software which embeds "self-ads" in reports or other documents it
produces?
Click to expand...

I thought "other" was understood to mean "by others" (paid advertising).
ISTM this should be clarified one way or the other in the Adware
definition.
I guess instead of just posing questions, I should propose an
alternate revision:

Adware: Software that displays advertising for other products
and/or services. (The advertising is often downloaded from the
internet by the software.)
Click to expand...

If that definition is meant to include self-advertising I think that
should be explicitly stated.

Susan
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Susan said:
It's still there. IMO "products and/or services produced by others" is
better wording than "other products and/or services". I'm not trying to
change the meaning.

Susan
Click to expand...

OK.
I read it as 'produced by others than they who made the program'... :-)
My mistake.

regards from vegard


--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

My sites:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Solitaire MahJongg: http://home.halden.net/vkp/vkp/
Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire: http://home.halden.net/vkp/
Freeware Logo & symbol: http://home.no/buffy2/
Chinese Checkers: http://home.no.net/vkp/
Pachisi & Ludo: http://home.no.net/vkp3/
My fishy site (fishing games): http://home.no/vkp32/
a.c.f.g information: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acfg/acfg.php
18+ - Adult Solitaire: http://home.no.net/rachel12/
18+ - Fishy Pictures: http://home.no.net/rachel12/fishy/
Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb: http://www.fredrikshald-havfiske.no
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
»Q« said:
What do you mean? Right now, Opera 8 is showing me an ad for an XM
receiver from Circuit City, 119.99 USD installed. (I have the random
graphical ad option selected.) AFAIK, Opera only shows self-ads if it
cannot manage to connect to the server to update the ads it would like
to show.
Click to expand...

Sorry!
Have not used Opera in a long time and seems to misinformed.

- If you're not confused, you're misinformed! :-)


--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

My sites:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Solitaire MahJongg: http://home.halden.net/vkp/vkp/
Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire: http://home.halden.net/vkp/
Freeware Logo & symbol: http://home.no/buffy2/
Chinese Checkers: http://home.no.net/vkp/
Pachisi & Ludo: http://home.no.net/vkp3/
My fishy site (fishing games): http://home.no/vkp32/
a.c.f.g information: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acfg/acfg.php
18+ - Adult Solitaire: http://home.no.net/rachel12/
18+ - Fishy Pictures: http://home.no.net/rachel12/fishy/
Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb: http://www.fredrikshald-havfiske.no
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
OK.
I read it as 'produced by others than they who made the program'... :-)
My mistake.
Click to expand...

Not at all. That's what I meant.

Some examples were given last November of programs that advertise their
own products. I just did a bit of Googling and found one of the posts:

From: Bjorn Simonsen ([email protected])
Subject: Re: [PL] PL2005 General Discussion
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
Date: 2004-11-05 18:43:47 PST

<Q>

Belarc Advisor
<http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2005/PL2005SYSTEMUTILITIES.php#0084-PW>

example from output:

<FONT face=arial><B>
<A HREF="http://www.belarc.com/ctadvisor.html?B">
Click here for Belarc's PC Management products,
for large and small companies.
/A>
</B></FONT>

</Q>

Susan
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Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

proposed revision:

Freeware: Software that you can obtain legally at no cost (monetary or
otherwise) and use for as long as you wish at no cost (monetary or
otherwise).

---------

Adware: software that displays advertising for other products and/or
services (often downloaded from the internet by the software).

proposed revision:

Adware: software that displays advertising for products and/or services
produced by others (often downloaded from the internet by the software).

-----------

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program.

proposed revision:

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program. Registerware may be keyed to a
serial number, a period of time, your hard drive, your email address
etc. etc. Registerware may require re-registration for continued use
after a period of time has elapsed, before reinstallation etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Susan, all of these sound reasonable to me. Is there a method to
indicate possible Registerware which produces spam? I have had some
registered programs, not free, trying to send e-mails exhorting me to
buy some other piece of useless junk. (Subjective determination)
 
Susan, all of these sound reasonable to me. Is there a method to
indicate possible Registerware which produces spam? I have had some
registered programs, not free, trying to send e-mails exhorting me to
buy some other piece of useless junk. (Subjective determination)
Click to expand...

Yahbut. . . I think my proposed revision is too long now. :(

ISTM these are good tests for a ware definition:

1) Is the definition easy to understand and remember?
2) Is the definition unambiguous?
3) Is the definition useful?

ISTM adding information about behavior that *may* occur with *some* apps
is usually not a good idea. If you are posting about your experiance
with an app I expect you would mention any spamming you had experienced.

OTOH - ISTM we should include something about keyed apps in the
Registerware definition - keys may impose significant limitations on the
user. Perhaps this:

Registerware: you must provide personal information via registration in
order to download and/or use the program. Registerware may require
re-registration for continued use after a period of time has elapsed,
before reinstallation etc. etc.

Susan
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Susan Bugher wrote:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php

re proposed revisions to the Adware definition:

I believe we need to put the cart before the horse - decide what we are
*trying* to say and *then* find the best way to say it (it seems there
is more than one interpretation of our current definition of Adware).

Which types of software do *you* think should be labeled Adware:

1. apps that display advertisements for products or services produced by
other companies/authors.

2. apps that display advertisements for other products or services
produced by the same company/author.

3. Liteware apps that display advertisements for a "professional"
version of the same app.

4. apps that display advertisements for the app itself.

Please post your opinions and comments. TIA :)

Susan
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Susan Bugher wrote:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php

re proposed revisions to the Adware definition:

I believe we need to put the cart before the horse - decide what we are
*trying* to say and *then* find the best way to say it (it seems there
is more than one interpretation of our current definition of Adware).

Which types of software do *you* think should be labeled Adware:

1. apps that display advertisements for products or services produced by
other companies/authors.
Adware

2. apps that display advertisements for other products or services
produced by the same company/author.
Adware

3. Liteware apps that display advertisements for a "professional"
version of the same app.
Click to expand...

Adware, though it might be some form of nagware, depending on how it's
done.
4. apps that display advertisements for the app itself.
Click to expand...

Not Adware.
Please post your opinions and comments. TIA :)
Click to expand...

If a freeware program tries to induce you to buy something it's Adware
in my book, regardless of what it is that it tries to get you to buy.
If a freeware program displays ads for itself that's not encouraging
you to buy.

It's the intention: is the author giving you the program freely or as
a means of persuasion?
 
Susan Bugher wrote:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php

re proposed revisions to the Adware definition:

I believe we need to put the cart before the horse - decide what we are
*trying* to say and *then* find the best way to say it (it seems there
is more than one interpretation of our current definition of Adware).

Which types of software do *you* think should be labeled Adware:

1. apps that display advertisements for products or services produced by
other companies/authors.
Yes.

2. apps that display advertisements for other products or services
produced by the same company/author.
Yes.

3. Liteware apps that display advertisements for a "professional"
version of the same app.
Click to expand...
Depends on how obtrusive (obnoxious) it is.
4. apps that display advertisements for the app itself.
Click to expand...
No, but depends on how obtrusive (obnoxious) it is.

add 5. apps that append an ad to e-mails a la AVG etc.
 
If a freeware program tries to induce you to buy something it's Adware
in my book, regardless of what it is that it tries to get you to buy.
If a freeware program displays ads for itself that's not encouraging
you to buy.

It's the intention: is the author giving you the program freely or as
a means of persuasion?
Click to expand...

ISTM that there is substantial agreement that "hard sell" apps should be
labeled Adware and a wide range of opinion on labeling apps that have a
small discrete ad "Adware". I'm basing my opinion on *previous* ACF
threads as this one has elicited almost no comment. It's difficult to
determine a consensus when nobody is talking. . . ;)

I think it's time to move on to the "opinion poll". There are several
proposed revisions to the Ware Glossary on the table. ISTM the best
thing to do is include them as choices in the opinion poll. I'll post a
draft of that for comments.

Susan
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Which types of software do *you* think should be labeled Adware:

1. apps that display advertisements for products or services
produced by other companies/authors.

2. apps that display advertisements for other products or services
produced by the same company/author.

3. Liteware apps that display advertisements for a "professional"
version of the same app.

4. apps that display advertisements for the app itself.

Please post your opinions and comments. TIA :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant to come back to this thread. And now that I've seen
your booster message, I have. ;)

All of the above are adware to me; if an app displays ads, it is
adware. I'll try to remember to weigh in again when the opinion poll
is posted.
 
»Q« said:
<news:[email protected]>:

Sorry, I meant to come back to this thread. And now that I've seen
your booster message, I have. ;)

All of the above are adware to me; if an app displays ads, it is
adware. I'll try to remember to weigh in again when the opinion poll
is posted.
Click to expand...

a few thoughts I have on this. . .

Last year there were some suggestions of a new ware type to describe
apps with ads that aren't *Adware* (per our present definition). IMO
this is preferable to labeling apps with *any* kind of ad *Adware*.

It's not enough to have ACF ware definitions - as a group we have
*apply* them too - most especially when describing candidates for the
Pricelessware list. IOW the ware type labels placed on Pricelessware
apps should match the ACF Ware Glossary definitions.

That's doesn't always happen now. I think the problem of mis-labeled
apps would get worse if ACF's Ware Glossary definition of Adware were
made more stringent.

ISTM that when the ACF Ware Glossary says a certain type of app is
*Adware* or *Spyware* virtually all newsgroup participants should be in
agreement that it is indeed *Adware* or *Spyware* *AND* label it as such
when they post a description in the newsgroup or nominate it for the PL
- else we will have a repeat of last year - Pricelessware 2005
candidates and Pricelessware 2004 apps that met the then current ACF
Ware Glossary's definition of Adware. ISTM doing our best to avoid a
repeat of that kind of problem is important.

Susan
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a few thoughts I have on this. . .

Last year there were some suggestions of a new ware type to
describe apps with ads that aren't *Adware* (per our present
definition). IMO this is preferable to labeling apps with *any*
kind of ad *Adware*.

It's not enough to have ACF ware definitions - as a group we have
*apply* them too - most especially when describing candidates for
the Pricelessware list. IOW the ware type labels placed on
Pricelessware apps should match the ACF Ware Glossary definitions.

That's doesn't always happen now. I think the problem of
mis-labeled apps would get worse if ACF's Ware Glossary definition
of Adware were made more stringent.
Click to expand...

ISTM that calling some ad-delivering apps adware but not others leads
to more confusion rather than less.
ISTM that when the ACF Ware Glossary says a certain type of app is
*Adware* or *Spyware* virtually all newsgroup participants should
be in agreement that it is indeed *Adware* or *Spyware* *AND*
label it as such when they post a description in the newsgroup or
nominate it for the PL - else we will have a repeat of last year -
Pricelessware 2005 candidates and Pricelessware 2004 apps that met
the then current ACF Ware Glossary's definition of Adware. ISTM
doing our best to avoid a repeat of that kind of problem is
important.
Click to expand...

I think people will nominate the apps they want to whether or not they
are adware or spyware, and all that can be done is to check them out.
There are people who don't care about these discussions when they are
about relative abstractions but who will care when one of their
favorite apps turns out to fall into a category excluded from PL
consideration.

I'm afraid I can't approach the question with a goal of trying to make
the PL nomination and selection process smoother, but I do agree that
a broad consensus about the definition would be best. Hopefully more
will speak up; the sample size in this thread is too low, and there's
not even any clear consensus among those of us who've posted to it.
 
No, its not.

BUT!!!
If the intended use of the program is to create something you send
to others, it is an ad. To your recipients, it's an ad.

Not everyone is discerning as you. But the author may be trying to
persuade non-users to use their program. A benign example are those
occasional posts with "certified virus free" addended. But, at
least in AVG, you can turn that off.
ISTM that there is substantial agreement that "hard sell" apps should be
labeled Adware and a wide range of opinion on labeling apps that have
a small discrete ad "Adware". I'm basing my opinion on *previous* ACF
threads as this one has elicited almost no comment.
Click to expand...

True. I think I may be the only one that has (negatively).
It's difficult to determine a consensus when nobody is talking. . . ;)

I think it's time to move on to the "opinion poll". There are several
proposed revisions to the Ware Glossary on the table. ISTM the best
thing to do is include them as choices in the opinion poll. I'll post a
draft of that for comments.
Click to expand...

I will, and should, save further comments for that thread.
 
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