Partition Magic 7 & ABSplus Backup System

[Alan C. Brown]

I apologise for posting this here, but Symantec does not provide personal
customer support for Partition Magic 7, CMS Products cannot provide any
further assistance, and I cannot find a Partition Magic or ABSplus
newsgroup. I'm just hoping that someone browsing this newsgroup might be
familiar with both products, and the problem I have described below.

I have a Toshiba Satellite 5105-S702 laptop with Win XP Pro pre-installed. I
repartitioned the 60GB HDD into 4 partitions (C, D, E & F) using Partition
Magic 7. I have an ABSplus External HDD (60 GB, Firewire), which by
installing ABSplus Backup software using the "Express Install" option, was
(I thought)automatically partitioned & formatted to match the laptop HDD
partitions, and these partitions were assigned the corresponding drive
letters G, H, I & J.

One of the attractive features advertised for the ABSplus Backup system, is
that the Express Install option of the ABSplus Backup Software not only
partitions the ABSplus HDD to match the Laptop HDD partitions, but it also
makes a bootable backup of the laptop HDD (all partitions) for disaster
recovery. Backups are in native file format.

Subsequent periodic backups can be made on a fortnightly to monthly basis
(or more frequently), to backup new & missing files, and purge the ABSplus
HDD of files that have been deleted from the Laptop. Therefore the ABSplus
HDD should have a fairtly up-to-date bootable backup of the laptop HDD at
all times

However, subsequent to purchasing and using the ABSplus Backup System, I
was advised by CMS Products, that the ABSplus Backup software is not
compatible with any 3rd party partitioning software, such as Partition
Magic, and they referred me to the following Technical Note on their
website. :

Tech Note 30 states :

3rd Party Partitioning Programs Not Supported With Disaster Recovery

When using 3rd party partitioning programs such as Partition Magic or
System Commander, these programs may install a special partition to manage
the booting of the various operating systems installed on your computer.
Because the contents of these partitions are proprietary, the ABS software
does not support their transfer to the ABS. This results in the Disaster
Recovery process failing and leaving the ABS drive unbootable. This does not
affect the backup of your data to the ABS.

Solution

Run the utility provided with your partitioning software and have it
remove the boot manager partition


Questions :

1. Is the "Solution" saying, that to make the ABSplus drive bootable, I
have to remove the boot manager partition on the C: partition of my laptop
using the Partition Magic utility, before installing the ABSplus Backup
software with the EXPRESS setup option ?

2. What is the utility that is provided with Partition Magic 7, that I can
use to remove the boot manager partition, and also what is the procedure ?

3. Is there any other backup system that can make a bootable backup of a
Laptop HDD in native file format.


Thank you

Alan Carr-Brown

 

[I'm Dan]

I have a Toshiba Satellite 5105-S702 laptop with Win XP Pro
pre-installed. I repartitioned the 60GB HDD into 4 partitions
(C, D, E & F) using Partition Magic 7. I have an ABSplus
External HDD (60 GB, Firewire), which by installing ABSplus
Backup software using the "Express Install" option, was
(I thought) automatically partitioned & formatted to match the
laptop HDD partitions, and these partitions were assigned the
corresponding drive letters G, H, I & J.

One of the attractive features advertised for the ABSplus Backup
system, is that the Express Install option of the ABSplus Backup
Software not only partitions the ABSplus HDD to match the
Laptop HDD partitions, but it also makes a bootable backup
of the laptop HDD (all partitions) for disaster recovery. Backups
are in native file format.

...(snipped)...

However, subsequent to purchasing and using the ABSplus
Backup System, I was advised by CMS Products, that the
ABSplus Backup software is not compatible with any 3rd party
partitioning software, such as Partition Magic, and they referred
me to the following Technical Note on their website. :

Tech Note 30 states :

3rd Party Partitioning Programs Not Supported With Disaster
Recovery

When using 3rd party partitioning programs such as Partition
Magic or System Commander, these programs may install a special
partition to manage the booting of the various operating systems
installed on your computer. Because the contents of these partitions
are proprietary, the ABS software does not support their transfer
to the ABS. This results in the Disaster Recovery process failing
and leaving the ABS drive unbootable. This does not affect the
backup of your data to the ABS.

Solution

Run the utility provided with your partitioning software and
have it remove the boot manager partition
...(snipped)...

You make no mention of multibooting or running more than one operating
system, so I'll assume you have only one operating system (the pre-installed
XP) and partitioned for the sake of making data partitions. I don't know
anything about ABSplus, but can see what Tech Note 30 is aiming at, and it
shouldn't apply to you.

The tech note is misleading because ABSplus isn't really concerned with
partitioning programs, it's third-party boot managers they're worried about.
System Commander is a boot manager, not a partitioning program (the
corresponding partitioning program is V-Com's Partition Commander).
Partition Magic is a partitioning program, but not a boot manager. Boot
Magic is a boot manager that comes bundled with Partition Magic, and
although PM itself is not a boot manager, it's common for users to confuse
them and talk about using PM for a boot manager when they're really using
BM.

It sounds like your ABSplus software is copying partitions but not the MBR
(which is at the front of the disk and not part of any partition). ABSplus
is therefore assuming you are using a standard MBR, and if so, then Disaster
Recovery should work as ABSplus intends. Partitioning programs won't
disturb your standard MBR, so using Partition Magic shouldn't cause problems
for ABSplus. But third-party boot managers *will* replace your standard
MBR, and that's what Tech Note 30 is addressing. However, that would only
be if you installed Boot Magic -- and there's no reason you would have done
that unless you were deliberately trying to setup multiple operating
systems. Simply using PM to split up your partitions does not install any
boot manager.

 

[kurttrail]

I apologise for posting this here, but Symantec does not provide
personal customer support for Partition Magic 7, CMS Products cannot
provide any further assistance, and I cannot find a Partition Magic
or ABSplus newsgroup. I'm just hoping that someone browsing this
newsgroup might be familiar with both products, and the problem I
have described below.

I have a Toshiba Satellite 5105-S702 laptop with Win XP Pro
pre-installed. I repartitioned the 60GB HDD into 4 partitions (C, D,
E & F) using Partition Magic 7. I have an ABSplus External HDD (60
GB, Firewire), which by installing ABSplus Backup software using the
"Express Install" option, was (I thought)automatically partitioned &
formatted to match the laptop HDD partitions, and these partitions
were assigned the corresponding drive letters G, H, I & J.

One of the attractive features advertised for the ABSplus Backup
system, is that the Express Install option of the ABSplus Backup
Software not only partitions the ABSplus HDD to match the Laptop HDD
partitions, but it also makes a bootable backup of the laptop HDD
(all partitions) for disaster recovery. Backups are in native file
format.

Subsequent periodic backups can be made on a fortnightly to monthly
basis (or more frequently), to backup new & missing files, and purge
the ABSplus HDD of files that have been deleted from the Laptop.
Therefore the ABSplus HDD should have a fairtly up-to-date bootable
backup of the laptop HDD at all times

However, subsequent to purchasing and using the ABSplus Backup
System, I was advised by CMS Products, that the ABSplus Backup
software is not compatible with any 3rd party partitioning software,
such as Partition Magic, and they referred me to the following
Technical Note on their website. :

Tech Note 30 states :

3rd Party Partitioning Programs Not Supported With Disaster
Recovery

When using 3rd party partitioning programs such as Partition
Magic or System Commander, these programs may install a special
partition to manage the booting of the various operating systems
installed on your computer. Because the contents of these partitions
are proprietary, the ABS software does not support their transfer to
the ABS. This results in the Disaster Recovery process failing and
leaving the ABS drive unbootable. This does not affect the backup of
your data to the ABS.

Solution

Run the utility provided with your partitioning software and
have it remove the boot manager partition


Questions :

1. Is the "Solution" saying, that to make the ABSplus drive
bootable, I have to remove the boot manager partition on the C:
partition of my laptop using the Partition Magic utility, before
installing the ABSplus Backup software with the EXPRESS setup option ?

2. What is the utility that is provided with Partition Magic 7, that
I can use to remove the boot manager partition, and also what is the
procedure ?

3. Is there any other backup system that can make a bootable backup
of a Laptop HDD in native file format.


Thank you

Alan Carr-Brown

Are you dualing booting another OS other than XP? Do you have BootMagic
installed and running at bootup? If no to both, then you shouldn't have to
worry about it, but remember sh*t does happen, even when it is not supposed
to.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

 

[Alan C. Brown]

--------------------------

You make no mention of multibooting or running more than one operating
system, so I'll assume you have only one operating system (the
pre-installed XP) and partitioned for the sake of making data partitions.
I don't know anything about ABSplus, but can see what Tech Note 30 is
aiming at, and it shouldn't apply to you.

The tech note is misleading because ABSplus isn't really concerned with
partitioning programs, it's third-party boot managers they're worried
about.
System Commander is a boot manager, not a partitioning program (the
corresponding partitioning program is V-Com's Partition Commander).
Partition Magic is a partitioning program, but not a boot manager. Boot
Magic is a boot manager that comes bundled with Partition Magic, and
although PM itself is not a boot manager, it's common for users to confuse
them and talk about using PM for a boot manager when they're really using
BM.

It sounds like your ABSplus software is copying partitions but not the MBR
(which is at the front of the disk and not part of any partition). ABSplus
is therefore assuming you are using a standard MBR, and if so, then
Disaster Recovery should work as ABSplus intends. Partitioning programs
won't disturb your standard MBR, so using Partition Magic shouldn't cause
problems for ABSplus. But third-party boot managers *will* replace your
standard MBR, and that's what Tech Note 30 is addressing. However, that
would only be if you installed Boot Magic -- and there's no reason you
would have done that unless you were deliberately trying to setup multiple
operating systems. Simply using PM to split up your partitions does not
install any boot manager.

---------------------------------

Thanks for your reply. You have sorted out this problem for me.

I have just checked the PM7 CD, and confirm that BootMagic is supplied as a
separate program on the CD.

I also checked in the Control Panel/Add or Remove Program dialog box, and
BootMagic is listed not there, and therefore I did not install it.

Had I installed BootMagic, there is a section in the Boot Magic chapter in
the PM7 manual entitled "Disabling BootMagic", which says :

"You may encounter situations in which you may want to disable BootMagic.
For example, ..........etc,etc. Disabling BootMagic replaces the BootMagic
master boot record(MBR) with a copy of your original MBR".

It then gives the procedure for disabling BootMagic, which is what the CMS
Products Tech Note # 30 must be referring to :

1. Unmark the BootMagic check box in the BootMagic main window.
The configuration options become unavailaable, and BootMagic remains
disabled until the box is re-checked.

2. Click Save/Exit to save your changes and exit the configuration program.

When you reboot your computer, BootMagic no longer loads and the default OS
is automatically booted.

Obviously this is the "Solution" given in the CMS Products Tech Note # 30,
that is - "Run the utility provided with your partitioning software and have
it remove the boot manager partition".

It then tells you how to re-enabale BootMagic :

"To re-enable BootMagic, run the configuration program from either your hard
drive or from the BootMagic rescue diskette. Mark the BootMagic enabled
check box in the BootMagic main window. When BootMagic is re-enabled, it
saves a copy of the current MBR and then re-installs the BootMagic MBR. Upon
reboot, BootMagic loads normallyand all the previous configuration settings
are restored."

Therefore it would appear that if I had installed BootMagic, I could disable
it before carrying out a ABSplus Backup, and then re-enable it afterwards.

Tech Note # 30 is misleading in that it gives the impression that Partition
Magic automatically installs "a special partition (MBR) to manage the
booting of the various operating systems installed on your computer",
although admittedly it does say "may install", which still is rather
ambiguous.

I do not not understand why CMS products do not give more specific, accurate
info on backing up drives partitioned with PM7 with/without BootMagic boot
management.

Alan Carr-Brown

 

[Alan C. Brown]

---------------------------

Are you dualing booting another OS other than XP? Do you have BootMagic
installed and running at bootup? If no to both, then you shouldn't have to
worry about it, but remember sh*t does happen, even when it is not supposed
to.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

-----------------------------------
Kurt

No to both questions. I have replied in detail to "I'm Dan", and my comments
to you would be the same.

Thank you very much for your help in sorting this out.

Alan C. Brown

 

[kurttrail]

---------------------------------

Thanks for your reply. You have sorted out this problem for me.

I have just checked the PM7 CD, and confirm that BootMagic is
supplied as a separate program on the CD.

I also checked in the Control Panel/Add or Remove Program dialog box,
and BootMagic is listed not there, and therefore I did not install it.

Had I installed BootMagic, there is a section in the Boot Magic
chapter in the PM7 manual entitled "Disabling BootMagic", which says :

"You may encounter situations in which you may want to disable
BootMagic. For example, ..........etc,etc. Disabling BootMagic
replaces the BootMagic master boot record(MBR) with a copy of your
original MBR".

It then gives the procedure for disabling BootMagic, which is what
the CMS Products Tech Note # 30 must be referring to :

1. Unmark the BootMagic check box in the BootMagic main window.
The configuration options become unavailaable, and BootMagic remains
disabled until the box is re-checked.

2. Click Save/Exit to save your changes and exit the configuration
program.

When you reboot your computer, BootMagic no longer loads and the
default OS is automatically booted.

Obviously this is the "Solution" given in the CMS Products Tech Note
# 30, that is - "Run the utility provided with your partitioning
software and have it remove the boot manager partition".

It then tells you how to re-enabale BootMagic :

"To re-enable BootMagic, run the configuration program from either
your hard drive or from the BootMagic rescue diskette. Mark the
BootMagic enabled check box in the BootMagic main window. When
BootMagic is re-enabled, it saves a copy of the current MBR and then
re-installs the BootMagic MBR. Upon reboot, BootMagic loads
normallyand all the previous configuration settings are restored."

Therefore it would appear that if I had installed BootMagic, I could
disable it before carrying out a ABSplus Backup, and then re-enable
it afterwards.

Tech Note # 30 is misleading in that it gives the impression that
Partition Magic automatically installs "a special partition (MBR) to
manage the booting of the various operating systems installed on your
computer", although admittedly it does say "may install", which still
is rather ambiguous.

I do not not understand why CMS products do not give more specific,
accurate info on backing up drives partitioned with PM7 with/without
BootMagic boot management.

Alan Carr-Brown

Because then they can blow you off easier when you call up with a
problem.

"Did you use a 3rd-Party partitioning program."

"Yes."

"Then you will have to call the company who made it. We do not support
the use of a 3rd-party partitioning program in conjunction with our
software. Thank you, and have a nice day."

Click!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"