OSX Leopard

[MICHAEL]

Helpful, as always. Thanks.

-Michael

The problem right now with putting x64 on an Intel Mac is that the Mac drivers for XP are
only for x86. It would work for the ATI x1600 adaptor because an x64 ATI driver would work,
but I haven't checked on the Atheros wireless adaptor, etc. The killer could turn out to be
the keyboard. That requires an Apple driver for Windows. You see Macs just don't have
things like a hardware eject for cd's etc. Apple's got too much proprietary hardware, I
fear.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

yw

Helpful, as always. Thanks.

-Michael

 

[Guest]

Thanks Mark. I got a bit carried away in my last diatribe, but I initially
was trying to make some general points about some of the new features in
Leopard that, in my opinion, didn't help Mac's image as a great innovator,
but instead spent a lot of time and energy into being able to boot up Windows
XP (Boot Camp). I've seen Steve Jobs go on about it and take some unfounded
knocks at Vista (you may disagree) which to me doesn't sell OSX Leopard or
Apple as an innovator. Instead, it makes Steve Jobs look childish and Apple
as a chip-on-its-shoulder company. Not the image I would want for my company.

My Power Mac 7300 from 1997 ran on OS 7.6 and I upgraded it to OS8 when it
was released later that year. I have used and scrutinized later MacOS's
though. Chiefly, Panther and Tiger. I used Macs to help friends with some
of their personal projects and Mac was their hardware/software of choice and
it gave me the opportunity to see if things had in fact improved in MacOS
since my past misfortune. I agree, the OS has come a long way from the
buggier times and runs very smoothly. I just don't like the overall feel of
how the system kind of nursemaids you through it's operations...like, "Pay no
attention to the man behind the curtain." I like that I can see the bones,
cartilidge and muscle tissue of the Windows OS. That way, I feel more
connected to it and can comprehend how it works (like learning another
language - being able to think in that new language) and therefore be able to
successfully solve problems myself and anticipate issues that might come up
later, preempt and bypass a potential problem. I felt walled off from the
beginning in the Mac OS and that's just my experience. Others may not feel
that way.

I'm also not a big fan of their UI: abstract toolbars and the Brushed Metal
skin (my iTunes in Windows XP) has that style imposed upon it and serves as a
reminder to me of what I dislike about MacOS.

"Think different...but here are the strict parameters in which you should do
that thinking" is the slogan that best descibes my vibe from Macs.

Tom

Tom,

I've attempted to keep my information fact based and avoid personal attacks.
I also mentioned that I use/support various flavors of Windows everyday to
pay the bills. I'm ok that you don't share my enthusiasm to use a computer
that "just works" more often (in my case). I prefer to spend my own time
and energy (off the clock) accomplishing things--rather than fixing and
maintaining my own things.

I'm certainly not saying the world should be all Apple all the time.
Obviously, you won't be first in line to buy one and that's ok. I'm not
some blinded-by-the-light fanboy who follows Master Steve to drink the
koolaid. My opinions and preferences have been formed through my own
observations, tests and trials--I do not take someone else's word for
it--and I don't expect you to take mine. I personally don't believe anyone
has the right to criticize, attack or recommend a platform unless they have
spent extensive time working on it. Tom, I don't see how your experience on
a Mac running OS 9 in 1997 is relavent to today. The Mac I spoke about that
is still running from 1997 is a G3 and it is running 10.3.9 quite happily
and capably as a webserver.

I'm not trying to evangelize--I didn't start this thread, afterall. There
is obviously a lot of curiosity from the XP/Vista camp about OS X and there
should be. A good IT person knows what is out there and well versed in ALL
OSes.

If you're happy with what you are doing, by all means keep it up.

Regards,
Mark

Say what you want about stock price and quarterly increases that in the
big
picture, don't say much. Apple has product placed and spent millions of
dollars on advertising (and with the exception of the more recent "I'm a
mog"
ads) have been quite good. Yet, they're still in that lower,
single-digit,
market share area that they've always been in since at least the late
80's...at about 3 to 5%.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't turned off your Mac since 1997, because
that's when I bought a Mac too. I bought the Power Mac 7300 (with the old
604e Power PC processor) just before they introduced the G3. What a
clunky
pile of junk that computer turned out to be. Not only was it at least
$1500
more than a comparable PC, I additionally had to buy a CRT monitor
separately
(and this was during the era when Mac did license its software...remember
the
Maclones?). The mouse was so slow and draggy and the OS was drab and in
my
opion, put strict limits on what I was to know/comprehend about its
functioning. So when I had a problem with an application or something, it
was this big mystery 'cause it wouldn't tell you whether you had a faulty
driver, extension, etc. Instead, i would have to either reinstall the
software or the OS and I got so sick of hearing that lame
"startup/showdown"
chord/sound droning over and over again. In a years time, after my
warranty
expired, the floppy drive gave out and the CD-ROM tray became unreliable
even
though I hadn't used it much since they're wasn't much software out there
for
MAC that interested me. I eventually threw the system in the garbage
within
three years, the last year of which I just held onto it needlessly because
I
had spent so much money on it. Since then I've stuck with with PC's and
have
never had a hardware problem that was the result of the manufacturer or
windows software.

Apple sells fully featured computers? Sure, but at a premium and with
very
little choice. The Mac Book has less features than my HP ZV6000, but
costs
more and only gives you a 12 or 13" screen. Add a couple hundred dollars
more and I could get it that puny computer in Black...ooooh. If I don't
like
the look of the MacBook (white/black), then my next option for a laptop
would
be the MacBook Pro which is a jump in price of at least $700-$1500. And
what
if I don't like that drab and cold aluminmum case, well then I guess I'm
out
of luck, 'cause that's all there is. Having different PC manufacturers
provides diversity of styles and competitive pricing (not rock bottom
quality...unless that's what you want because it would YOUR choice, not
Apple's).

As for this Boot Camp thing...doesn't that, in a way, make OSX
superfluous?
and make Apple just another PC manufacturer? (albeit, an expensive,
over-hyped one at that).

Again with regard to the OS security issue: What hacker would invest so
much time and effort into hacking an OS that only 5% of the entire
personal
computer market uses. That would be a waste.

And if you're so proud of your precious "OSX" that you so adamantly
defend,
what are you doing on the Windows Vista help and Support website in the
first
place? Go back to your "la la" world of overpriced, overhyped,
overheating
Macs and listen to more childish, "chip on his shoulder" speeches by Steve
Jobs about how Vista is a copycat when, at the same time, he calls Leopar
"Vista 2.0." Huh?

I guess when there's no new innovation, Apple just starts up the mud
slinginger 2.0.

OSX SUX!

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster
than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not to
be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value.
Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are
scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a Mac I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in.
All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells
fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the worst
in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for) and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP SP2
and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS X
use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets
killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that
instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot into
XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed. Parallels
is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines all
day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI (they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp
"innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying
$130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...


:

Hey folks

Looking at OSX Leapord http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ makes me
want
to
switch to mac apart from the price of the hardware.

If Apple decided to release OSX for any pc (or as close as), do you
think
you would ditch widows altogether?

I would like to see how many people would actually take the plunge. As
you
can clearly see, with the superb streamline support and all the
extras,
and
MUCH cheaper software it already slams Vista in the face.

Common folks, be honest, i'm a pc user too, but i have to say that if
i
could install this baby, instead of vista, i would be there in a shot!

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The unusual amount of MS bashing during the keynote bothered me too. If Mac
is superior, ignore Windows and just puch Mac's. As a Mac user, I was
embarrassed.

Thanks Mark. I got a bit carried away in my last diatribe, but I
initially
was trying to make some general points about some of the new features in
Leopard that, in my opinion, didn't help Mac's image as a great innovator,
but instead spent a lot of time and energy into being able to boot up
Windows
XP (Boot Camp). I've seen Steve Jobs go on about it and take some
unfounded
knocks at Vista (you may disagree) which to me doesn't sell OSX Leopard or
Apple as an innovator. Instead, it makes Steve Jobs look childish and
Apple
as a chip-on-its-shoulder company. Not the image I would want for my
company.

My Power Mac 7300 from 1997 ran on OS 7.6 and I upgraded it to OS8 when it
was released later that year. I have used and scrutinized later MacOS's
though. Chiefly, Panther and Tiger. I used Macs to help friends with
some
of their personal projects and Mac was their hardware/software of choice
and
it gave me the opportunity to see if things had in fact improved in MacOS
since my past misfortune. I agree, the OS has come a long way from the
buggier times and runs very smoothly. I just don't like the overall feel
of
how the system kind of nursemaids you through it's operations...like, "Pay
no
attention to the man behind the curtain." I like that I can see the
bones,
cartilidge and muscle tissue of the Windows OS. That way, I feel more
connected to it and can comprehend how it works (like learning another
language - being able to think in that new language) and therefore be able
to
successfully solve problems myself and anticipate issues that might come
up
later, preempt and bypass a potential problem. I felt walled off from the
beginning in the Mac OS and that's just my experience. Others may not
feel
that way.

I'm also not a big fan of their UI: abstract toolbars and the Brushed
Metal
skin (my iTunes in Windows XP) has that style imposed upon it and serves
as a
reminder to me of what I dislike about MacOS.

"Think different...but here are the strict parameters in which you should
do
that thinking" is the slogan that best descibes my vibe from Macs.

Tom

Tom,

I've attempted to keep my information fact based and avoid personal
attacks.
I also mentioned that I use/support various flavors of Windows everyday
to
pay the bills. I'm ok that you don't share my enthusiasm to use a
computer
that "just works" more often (in my case). I prefer to spend my own time
and energy (off the clock) accomplishing things--rather than fixing and
maintaining my own things.

I'm certainly not saying the world should be all Apple all the time.
Obviously, you won't be first in line to buy one and that's ok. I'm not
some blinded-by-the-light fanboy who follows Master Steve to drink the
koolaid. My opinions and preferences have been formed through my own
observations, tests and trials--I do not take someone else's word for
it--and I don't expect you to take mine. I personally don't believe
anyone
has the right to criticize, attack or recommend a platform unless they
have
spent extensive time working on it. Tom, I don't see how your experience
on
a Mac running OS 9 in 1997 is relavent to today. The Mac I spoke about
that
is still running from 1997 is a G3 and it is running 10.3.9 quite happily
and capably as a webserver.

I'm not trying to evangelize--I didn't start this thread, afterall.
There
is obviously a lot of curiosity from the XP/Vista camp about OS X and
there
should be. A good IT person knows what is out there and well versed in
ALL
OSes.

If you're happy with what you are doing, by all means keep it up.

Regards,
Mark

Say what you want about stock price and quarterly increases that in the
big
picture, don't say much. Apple has product placed and spent millions
of
dollars on advertising (and with the exception of the more recent "I'm
a
mog"
ads) have been quite good. Yet, they're still in that lower,
single-digit,
market share area that they've always been in since at least the late
80's...at about 3 to 5%.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't turned off your Mac since 1997,
because
that's when I bought a Mac too. I bought the Power Mac 7300 (with the
old
604e Power PC processor) just before they introduced the G3. What a
clunky
pile of junk that computer turned out to be. Not only was it at least
$1500
more than a comparable PC, I additionally had to buy a CRT monitor
separately
(and this was during the era when Mac did license its
software...remember
the
Maclones?). The mouse was so slow and draggy and the OS was drab and
in
my
opion, put strict limits on what I was to know/comprehend about its
functioning. So when I had a problem with an application or something,
it
was this big mystery 'cause it wouldn't tell you whether you had a
faulty
driver, extension, etc. Instead, i would have to either reinstall the
software or the OS and I got so sick of hearing that lame
"startup/showdown"
chord/sound droning over and over again. In a years time, after my
warranty
expired, the floppy drive gave out and the CD-ROM tray became
unreliable
even
though I hadn't used it much since they're wasn't much software out
there
for
MAC that interested me. I eventually threw the system in the garbage
within
three years, the last year of which I just held onto it needlessly
because
I
had spent so much money on it. Since then I've stuck with with PC's
and
have
never had a hardware problem that was the result of the manufacturer or
windows software.

Apple sells fully featured computers? Sure, but at a premium and with
very
little choice. The Mac Book has less features than my HP ZV6000, but
costs
more and only gives you a 12 or 13" screen. Add a couple hundred
dollars
more and I could get it that puny computer in Black...ooooh. If I don't
like
the look of the MacBook (white/black), then my next option for a laptop
would
be the MacBook Pro which is a jump in price of at least $700-$1500.
And
what
if I don't like that drab and cold aluminmum case, well then I guess
I'm
out
of luck, 'cause that's all there is. Having different PC manufacturers
provides diversity of styles and competitive pricing (not rock bottom
quality...unless that's what you want because it would YOUR choice, not
Apple's).

As for this Boot Camp thing...doesn't that, in a way, make OSX
superfluous?
and make Apple just another PC manufacturer? (albeit, an expensive,
over-hyped one at that).

Again with regard to the OS security issue: What hacker would invest
so
much time and effort into hacking an OS that only 5% of the entire
personal
computer market uses. That would be a waste.

And if you're so proud of your precious "OSX" that you so adamantly
defend,
what are you doing on the Windows Vista help and Support website in the
first
place? Go back to your "la la" world of overpriced, overhyped,
overheating
Macs and listen to more childish, "chip on his shoulder" speeches by
Steve
Jobs about how Vista is a copycat when, at the same time, he calls
Leopar
"Vista 2.0." Huh?

I guess when there's no new innovation, Apple just starts up the mud
slinginger 2.0.

OSX SUX!





:

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only
one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster
than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not
to
be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value.
Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are
scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is
not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a Mac
I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in.
All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells
fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so
they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the
worst
in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for)
and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades
since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP SP2
and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS
X
use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets
killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that
instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps
and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot
into
XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed.
Parallels
is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has
to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines all
day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you
have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI
(they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp
"innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up
with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying
$130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless
of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers
all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...


:

Hey folks

Looking at OSX Leapord http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ makes
me
want
to
switch to mac apart from the price of the hardware.

If Apple decided to release OSX for any pc (or as close as), do you
think
you would ditch widows altogether?

I would like to see how many people would actually take the plunge.
As
you
can clearly see, with the superb streamline support and all the
extras,
and
MUCH cheaper software it already slams Vista in the face.

Common folks, be honest, i'm a pc user too, but i have to say that
if
i
could install this baby, instead of vista, i would be there in a
shot!

 

[mmmmark]

Some people will never use or like Macs. Some people will never embrace
organized religion. (not meaning to compare the two, btw). I can accept
that and it doesn't keep me awake at night.

I think that desire to control the OS comes from years of Windows use. I
too have noticed this but also feel that I can let loose a little and treat
Mac OS X slightly differently. It generally behaves and does not need the
reins that my Windows boxes do. Generally the behind the scenes unix
maintenance tasks carry out what needs to be done to keep it happy.

The only times I've really caused any problems for myself on OS X is when I
installed some very crappy freeware hack that hosed up the system. They
were using some kernel extensions that didn't play well with others and
ended up corrupting some low level system files.

Other than that, no problems. It is a leap for those with a Windows
background, but I've found that a little knowledge of OS X and a bit of
trust has transformed my outlook on it. It has actually delivered the
headache-free experience I've wished for. I can still modify, customize and
get under the hood, but now I'm learning unix better at the same time which
is cool. I don't HAVE to do this if I don't want to. That to me is a big
difference between OS X and Windows. OS X gets out of my way and I forget
its there. I can't do that as easily with windows.

I installed a device that didn't even list Mac drivers. Plugged it in and
it worked--instantly. Took the device to work, installed it WITH the proper
drivers and it still wouldn't work. One simple example, but telling
nevertheless.

I've got off track a bit. Sorry--trying to survive Friday afternoon!

Have a good weekend.
Mark

Thanks Mark. I got a bit carried away in my last diatribe, but I
initially
was trying to make some general points about some of the new features in
Leopard that, in my opinion, didn't help Mac's image as a great innovator,
but instead spent a lot of time and energy into being able to boot up
Windows
XP (Boot Camp). I've seen Steve Jobs go on about it and take some
unfounded
knocks at Vista (you may disagree) which to me doesn't sell OSX Leopard or
Apple as an innovator. Instead, it makes Steve Jobs look childish and
Apple
as a chip-on-its-shoulder company. Not the image I would want for my
company.

My Power Mac 7300 from 1997 ran on OS 7.6 and I upgraded it to OS8 when it
was released later that year. I have used and scrutinized later MacOS's
though. Chiefly, Panther and Tiger. I used Macs to help friends with
some
of their personal projects and Mac was their hardware/software of choice
and
it gave me the opportunity to see if things had in fact improved in MacOS
since my past misfortune. I agree, the OS has come a long way from the
buggier times and runs very smoothly. I just don't like the overall feel
of
how the system kind of nursemaids you through it's operations...like, "Pay
no
attention to the man behind the curtain." I like that I can see the
bones,
cartilidge and muscle tissue of the Windows OS. That way, I feel more
connected to it and can comprehend how it works (like learning another
language - being able to think in that new language) and therefore be able
to
successfully solve problems myself and anticipate issues that might come
up
later, preempt and bypass a potential problem. I felt walled off from the
beginning in the Mac OS and that's just my experience. Others may not
feel
that way.

I'm also not a big fan of their UI: abstract toolbars and the Brushed
Metal
skin (my iTunes in Windows XP) has that style imposed upon it and serves
as a
reminder to me of what I dislike about MacOS.

"Think different...but here are the strict parameters in which you should
do
that thinking" is the slogan that best descibes my vibe from Macs.

Tom

Tom,

I've attempted to keep my information fact based and avoid personal
attacks.
I also mentioned that I use/support various flavors of Windows everyday
to
pay the bills. I'm ok that you don't share my enthusiasm to use a
computer
that "just works" more often (in my case). I prefer to spend my own time
and energy (off the clock) accomplishing things--rather than fixing and
maintaining my own things.

I'm certainly not saying the world should be all Apple all the time.
Obviously, you won't be first in line to buy one and that's ok. I'm not
some blinded-by-the-light fanboy who follows Master Steve to drink the
koolaid. My opinions and preferences have been formed through my own
observations, tests and trials--I do not take someone else's word for
it--and I don't expect you to take mine. I personally don't believe
anyone
has the right to criticize, attack or recommend a platform unless they
have
spent extensive time working on it. Tom, I don't see how your experience
on
a Mac running OS 9 in 1997 is relavent to today. The Mac I spoke about
that
is still running from 1997 is a G3 and it is running 10.3.9 quite happily
and capably as a webserver.

I'm not trying to evangelize--I didn't start this thread, afterall.
There
is obviously a lot of curiosity from the XP/Vista camp about OS X and
there
should be. A good IT person knows what is out there and well versed in
ALL
OSes.

If you're happy with what you are doing, by all means keep it up.

Regards,
Mark

Say what you want about stock price and quarterly increases that in the
big
picture, don't say much. Apple has product placed and spent millions
of
dollars on advertising (and with the exception of the more recent "I'm
a
mog"
ads) have been quite good. Yet, they're still in that lower,
single-digit,
market share area that they've always been in since at least the late
80's...at about 3 to 5%.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't turned off your Mac since 1997,
because
that's when I bought a Mac too. I bought the Power Mac 7300 (with the
old
604e Power PC processor) just before they introduced the G3. What a
clunky
pile of junk that computer turned out to be. Not only was it at least
$1500
more than a comparable PC, I additionally had to buy a CRT monitor
separately
(and this was during the era when Mac did license its
software...remember
the
Maclones?). The mouse was so slow and draggy and the OS was drab and
in
my
opion, put strict limits on what I was to know/comprehend about its
functioning. So when I had a problem with an application or something,
it
was this big mystery 'cause it wouldn't tell you whether you had a
faulty
driver, extension, etc. Instead, i would have to either reinstall the
software or the OS and I got so sick of hearing that lame
"startup/showdown"
chord/sound droning over and over again. In a years time, after my
warranty
expired, the floppy drive gave out and the CD-ROM tray became
unreliable
even
though I hadn't used it much since they're wasn't much software out
there
for
MAC that interested me. I eventually threw the system in the garbage
within
three years, the last year of which I just held onto it needlessly
because
I
had spent so much money on it. Since then I've stuck with with PC's
and
have
never had a hardware problem that was the result of the manufacturer or
windows software.

Apple sells fully featured computers? Sure, but at a premium and with
very
little choice. The Mac Book has less features than my HP ZV6000, but
costs
more and only gives you a 12 or 13" screen. Add a couple hundred
dollars
more and I could get it that puny computer in Black...ooooh. If I don't
like
the look of the MacBook (white/black), then my next option for a laptop
would
be the MacBook Pro which is a jump in price of at least $700-$1500.
And
what
if I don't like that drab and cold aluminmum case, well then I guess
I'm
out
of luck, 'cause that's all there is. Having different PC manufacturers
provides diversity of styles and competitive pricing (not rock bottom
quality...unless that's what you want because it would YOUR choice, not
Apple's).

As for this Boot Camp thing...doesn't that, in a way, make OSX
superfluous?
and make Apple just another PC manufacturer? (albeit, an expensive,
over-hyped one at that).

Again with regard to the OS security issue: What hacker would invest
so
much time and effort into hacking an OS that only 5% of the entire
personal
computer market uses. That would be a waste.

And if you're so proud of your precious "OSX" that you so adamantly
defend,
what are you doing on the Windows Vista help and Support website in the
first
place? Go back to your "la la" world of overpriced, overhyped,
overheating
Macs and listen to more childish, "chip on his shoulder" speeches by
Steve
Jobs about how Vista is a copycat when, at the same time, he calls
Leopar
"Vista 2.0." Huh?

I guess when there's no new innovation, Apple just starts up the mud
slinginger 2.0.

OSX SUX!





:

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only
one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster
than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not
to
be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value.
Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are
scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is
not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a Mac
I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in.
All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells
fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so
they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the
worst
in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for)
and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades
since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP SP2
and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS
X
use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets
killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that
instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps
and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot
into
XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed.
Parallels
is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has
to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines all
day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you
have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI
(they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp
"innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up
with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying
$130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless
of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers
all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...


:

Hey folks

Looking at OSX Leapord http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ makes
me
want
to
switch to mac apart from the price of the hardware.

If Apple decided to release OSX for any pc (or as close as), do you
think
you would ditch widows altogether?

I would like to see how many people would actually take the plunge.
As
you
can clearly see, with the superb streamline support and all the
extras,
and
MUCH cheaper software it already slams Vista in the face.

Common folks, be honest, i'm a pc user too, but i have to say that
if
i
could install this baby, instead of vista, i would be there in a
shot!

 

[mmmmark]

I also was a bit taken aback by that posturing. However, as I thought about
it more, I wondered if this was Apple's way of "taking off the gloves" more
and attacking directly rather than pussyfooting around with the Think
Different.

One other thing that just came to mind....this was a developer's conference
so they were trying to whip up the faithful into a frenzy--preaching to the
choir, if you will. I guess they were possibly trying to say that "look--we
are better than Vista--they copied us, blah blah, blah". We all know that
some of that is crap, fluff and reciprocal.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it has any impact at all. One thing
about Jobs--most of what he says is not accidental. He reportedly has a
whole staff of perceptual advisors, marketeers and shrinks that analyze the
marketplace and he always points his speech at a specific, pre-defined
target. Frequently it is spot on, although sometimes it misses badly.

-Mark

The unusual amount of MS bashing during the keynote bothered me too. If
Mac is superior, ignore Windows and just puch Mac's. As a Mac user, I was
embarrassed.

Thanks Mark. I got a bit carried away in my last diatribe, but I
initially
was trying to make some general points about some of the new features in
Leopard that, in my opinion, didn't help Mac's image as a great
innovator,
but instead spent a lot of time and energy into being able to boot up
Windows
XP (Boot Camp). I've seen Steve Jobs go on about it and take some
unfounded
knocks at Vista (you may disagree) which to me doesn't sell OSX Leopard
or
Apple as an innovator. Instead, it makes Steve Jobs look childish and
Apple
as a chip-on-its-shoulder company. Not the image I would want for my
company.

My Power Mac 7300 from 1997 ran on OS 7.6 and I upgraded it to OS8 when
it
was released later that year. I have used and scrutinized later MacOS's
though. Chiefly, Panther and Tiger. I used Macs to help friends with
some
of their personal projects and Mac was their hardware/software of choice
and
it gave me the opportunity to see if things had in fact improved in MacOS
since my past misfortune. I agree, the OS has come a long way from the
buggier times and runs very smoothly. I just don't like the overall feel
of
how the system kind of nursemaids you through it's operations...like,
"Pay no
attention to the man behind the curtain." I like that I can see the
bones,
cartilidge and muscle tissue of the Windows OS. That way, I feel more
connected to it and can comprehend how it works (like learning another
language - being able to think in that new language) and therefore be
able to
successfully solve problems myself and anticipate issues that might come
up
later, preempt and bypass a potential problem. I felt walled off from
the
beginning in the Mac OS and that's just my experience. Others may not
feel
that way.

I'm also not a big fan of their UI: abstract toolbars and the Brushed
Metal
skin (my iTunes in Windows XP) has that style imposed upon it and serves
as a
reminder to me of what I dislike about MacOS.

"Think different...but here are the strict parameters in which you should
do
that thinking" is the slogan that best descibes my vibe from Macs.

Tom

Tom,

I've attempted to keep my information fact based and avoid personal
attacks.
I also mentioned that I use/support various flavors of Windows everyday
to
pay the bills. I'm ok that you don't share my enthusiasm to use a
computer
that "just works" more often (in my case). I prefer to spend my own
time
and energy (off the clock) accomplishing things--rather than fixing and
maintaining my own things.

I'm certainly not saying the world should be all Apple all the time.
Obviously, you won't be first in line to buy one and that's ok. I'm not
some blinded-by-the-light fanboy who follows Master Steve to drink the
koolaid. My opinions and preferences have been formed through my own
observations, tests and trials--I do not take someone else's word for
it--and I don't expect you to take mine. I personally don't believe
anyone
has the right to criticize, attack or recommend a platform unless they
have
spent extensive time working on it. Tom, I don't see how your
experience on
a Mac running OS 9 in 1997 is relavent to today. The Mac I spoke about
that
is still running from 1997 is a G3 and it is running 10.3.9 quite
happily
and capably as a webserver.

I'm not trying to evangelize--I didn't start this thread, afterall.
There
is obviously a lot of curiosity from the XP/Vista camp about OS X and
there
should be. A good IT person knows what is out there and well versed in
ALL
OSes.

If you're happy with what you are doing, by all means keep it up.

Regards,
Mark


Say what you want about stock price and quarterly increases that in
the
big
picture, don't say much. Apple has product placed and spent millions
of
dollars on advertising (and with the exception of the more recent "I'm
a
mog"
ads) have been quite good. Yet, they're still in that lower,
single-digit,
market share area that they've always been in since at least the late
80's...at about 3 to 5%.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't turned off your Mac since 1997,
because
that's when I bought a Mac too. I bought the Power Mac 7300 (with the
old
604e Power PC processor) just before they introduced the G3. What a
clunky
pile of junk that computer turned out to be. Not only was it at least
$1500
more than a comparable PC, I additionally had to buy a CRT monitor
separately
(and this was during the era when Mac did license its
software...remember
the
Maclones?). The mouse was so slow and draggy and the OS was drab and
in
my
opion, put strict limits on what I was to know/comprehend about its
functioning. So when I had a problem with an application or
something, it
was this big mystery 'cause it wouldn't tell you whether you had a
faulty
driver, extension, etc. Instead, i would have to either reinstall the
software or the OS and I got so sick of hearing that lame
"startup/showdown"
chord/sound droning over and over again. In a years time, after my
warranty
expired, the floppy drive gave out and the CD-ROM tray became
unreliable
even
though I hadn't used it much since they're wasn't much software out
there
for
MAC that interested me. I eventually threw the system in the garbage
within
three years, the last year of which I just held onto it needlessly
because
I
had spent so much money on it. Since then I've stuck with with PC's
and
have
never had a hardware problem that was the result of the manufacturer
or
windows software.

Apple sells fully featured computers? Sure, but at a premium and with
very
little choice. The Mac Book has less features than my HP ZV6000, but
costs
more and only gives you a 12 or 13" screen. Add a couple hundred
dollars
more and I could get it that puny computer in Black...ooooh. If I
don't
like
the look of the MacBook (white/black), then my next option for a
laptop
would
be the MacBook Pro which is a jump in price of at least $700-$1500.
And
what
if I don't like that drab and cold aluminmum case, well then I guess
I'm
out
of luck, 'cause that's all there is. Having different PC
manufacturers
provides diversity of styles and competitive pricing (not rock bottom
quality...unless that's what you want because it would YOUR choice,
not
Apple's).

As for this Boot Camp thing...doesn't that, in a way, make OSX
superfluous?
and make Apple just another PC manufacturer? (albeit, an expensive,
over-hyped one at that).

Again with regard to the OS security issue: What hacker would invest
so
much time and effort into hacking an OS that only 5% of the entire
personal
computer market uses. That would be a waste.

And if you're so proud of your precious "OSX" that you so adamantly
defend,
what are you doing on the Windows Vista help and Support website in
the
first
place? Go back to your "la la" world of overpriced, overhyped,
overheating
Macs and listen to more childish, "chip on his shoulder" speeches by
Steve
Jobs about how Vista is a copycat when, at the same time, he calls
Leopar
"Vista 2.0." Huh?

I guess when there's no new innovation, Apple just starts up the mud
slinginger 2.0.

OSX SUX!





:

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with
positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only
one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster
than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not
to
be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value.
Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are
scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is
not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a
Mac I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in.
All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells
fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so
they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the
worst
in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for)
and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades
since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP
SP2
and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS
X
use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have
an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets
killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that
instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps
and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot
into
XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed.
Parallels
is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has
to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines
all
day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you
have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI
(they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp
"innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up
with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying
$130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows
unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers
all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...


:

Hey folks

Looking at OSX Leapord http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ makes
me
want
to
switch to mac apart from the price of the hardware.

If Apple decided to release OSX for any pc (or as close as), do
you
think
you would ditch widows altogether?

I would like to see how many people would actually take the
plunge. As
you
can clearly see, with the superb streamline support and all the
extras,
and
MUCH cheaper software it already slams Vista in the face.

Common folks, be honest, i'm a pc user too, but i have to say that
if
i
could install this baby, instead of vista, i would be there in a
shot!

 

[deebs]

I think it is almost expected?

Remember when Mr Gates bailed them out?

It is also, in my opinion, tolerable

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

Hey folks

Looking at OSX Leapord http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ makes me want to
switch to mac apart from the price of the hardware.

If Apple decided to release OSX for any pc (or as close as), do you think
you would ditch widows altogether?

I would like to see how many people would actually take the plunge. As you
can clearly see, with the superb streamline support and all the extras, and
MUCH cheaper software it already slams Vista in the face.

Common folks, be honest, i'm a pc user too, but i have to say that if i
could install this baby, instead of vista, i would be there in a shot!

You know, Ian, I used OS X for over 2 years, and soon began to tire of
its insipid desktop.

I now have an Intel iMac, and dual-boot with XP using Apple's own Boot
Camp Assistant.

By the way, I have the default partition set to XP, rather than OS X.

Why would I want to "ditch Windows XP altogether" for a dog like OS X?

And it IS possible to install OS X on Wintel PCs, but not legally,
since one must download a hacked version of OS X.

And if I'm not mistaken it's possible to run OS X legally in a virtual
machine on a Wintel PC using virtualization software, anyway.

==

Donald L. McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
==========================================================

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

I wouldn't... all the software I run on the PC I can get cheaper for the
windows ver than Mac (ie adobe, macromedia,etc) and I wouldn't want to spend
thousands to replace versions I already have. As for all the extras, seems
Vista has a lot of them and MS MediaCenter is still better than Apples'
version although maybe it's improved in Leapord. If I had no PC software of
value then I'd be tempted to take it for a spin.

Why not just purchase an Intel Mac? It's possible to dual-boot with
XP (or soon, Vista) on the same machine. And at FULL speed, too. No
need for virtualization software.

Then decide which OS you prefer.

==

Donald L. McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
==========================================================

 

[deebs]

Full speed? No need for virtualization?

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Apple should do what they have always done best. Be different.

I also was a bit taken aback by that posturing. However, as I thought
about it more, I wondered if this was Apple's way of "taking off the
gloves" more and attacking directly rather than pussyfooting around with
the Think Different.

One other thing that just came to mind....this was a developer's
conference so they were trying to whip up the faithful into a
frenzy--preaching to the choir, if you will. I guess they were possibly
trying to say that "look--we are better than Vista--they copied us, blah
blah, blah". We all know that some of that is crap, fluff and reciprocal.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it has any impact at all. One thing
about Jobs--most of what he says is not accidental. He reportedly has a
whole staff of perceptual advisors, marketeers and shrinks that analyze
the marketplace and he always points his speech at a specific, pre-defined
target. Frequently it is spot on, although sometimes it misses badly.

-Mark

The unusual amount of MS bashing during the keynote bothered me too. If
Mac is superior, ignore Windows and just puch Mac's. As a Mac user, I
was embarrassed.

Thanks Mark. I got a bit carried away in my last diatribe, but I
initially
was trying to make some general points about some of the new features in
Leopard that, in my opinion, didn't help Mac's image as a great
innovator,
but instead spent a lot of time and energy into being able to boot up
Windows
XP (Boot Camp). I've seen Steve Jobs go on about it and take some
unfounded
knocks at Vista (you may disagree) which to me doesn't sell OSX Leopard
or
Apple as an innovator. Instead, it makes Steve Jobs look childish and
Apple
as a chip-on-its-shoulder company. Not the image I would want for my
company.

My Power Mac 7300 from 1997 ran on OS 7.6 and I upgraded it to OS8 when
it
was released later that year. I have used and scrutinized later MacOS's
though. Chiefly, Panther and Tiger. I used Macs to help friends with
some
of their personal projects and Mac was their hardware/software of choice
and
it gave me the opportunity to see if things had in fact improved in
MacOS
since my past misfortune. I agree, the OS has come a long way from the
buggier times and runs very smoothly. I just don't like the overall
feel of
how the system kind of nursemaids you through it's operations...like,
"Pay no
attention to the man behind the curtain." I like that I can see the
bones,
cartilidge and muscle tissue of the Windows OS. That way, I feel more
connected to it and can comprehend how it works (like learning another
language - being able to think in that new language) and therefore be
able to
successfully solve problems myself and anticipate issues that might come
up
later, preempt and bypass a potential problem. I felt walled off from
the
beginning in the Mac OS and that's just my experience. Others may not
feel
that way.

I'm also not a big fan of their UI: abstract toolbars and the Brushed
Metal
skin (my iTunes in Windows XP) has that style imposed upon it and serves
as a
reminder to me of what I dislike about MacOS.

"Think different...but here are the strict parameters in which you
should do
that thinking" is the slogan that best descibes my vibe from Macs.

Tom


:

Tom,

I've attempted to keep my information fact based and avoid personal
attacks.
I also mentioned that I use/support various flavors of Windows everyday
to
pay the bills. I'm ok that you don't share my enthusiasm to use a
computer
that "just works" more often (in my case). I prefer to spend my own
time
and energy (off the clock) accomplishing things--rather than fixing and
maintaining my own things.

I'm certainly not saying the world should be all Apple all the time.
Obviously, you won't be first in line to buy one and that's ok. I'm
not
some blinded-by-the-light fanboy who follows Master Steve to drink the
koolaid. My opinions and preferences have been formed through my own
observations, tests and trials--I do not take someone else's word for
it--and I don't expect you to take mine. I personally don't believe
anyone
has the right to criticize, attack or recommend a platform unless they
have
spent extensive time working on it. Tom, I don't see how your
experience on
a Mac running OS 9 in 1997 is relavent to today. The Mac I spoke about
that
is still running from 1997 is a G3 and it is running 10.3.9 quite
happily
and capably as a webserver.

I'm not trying to evangelize--I didn't start this thread, afterall.
There
is obviously a lot of curiosity from the XP/Vista camp about OS X and
there
should be. A good IT person knows what is out there and well versed in
ALL
OSes.

If you're happy with what you are doing, by all means keep it up.

Regards,
Mark


Say what you want about stock price and quarterly increases that in
the
big
picture, don't say much. Apple has product placed and spent millions
of
dollars on advertising (and with the exception of the more recent
"I'm a
mog"
ads) have been quite good. Yet, they're still in that lower,
single-digit,
market share area that they've always been in since at least the late
80's...at about 3 to 5%.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't turned off your Mac since 1997,
because
that's when I bought a Mac too. I bought the Power Mac 7300 (with
the old
604e Power PC processor) just before they introduced the G3. What a
clunky
pile of junk that computer turned out to be. Not only was it at
least
$1500
more than a comparable PC, I additionally had to buy a CRT monitor
separately
(and this was during the era when Mac did license its
software...remember
the
Maclones?). The mouse was so slow and draggy and the OS was drab and
in
my
opion, put strict limits on what I was to know/comprehend about its
functioning. So when I had a problem with an application or
something, it
was this big mystery 'cause it wouldn't tell you whether you had a
faulty
driver, extension, etc. Instead, i would have to either reinstall
the
software or the OS and I got so sick of hearing that lame
"startup/showdown"
chord/sound droning over and over again. In a years time, after my
warranty
expired, the floppy drive gave out and the CD-ROM tray became
unreliable
even
though I hadn't used it much since they're wasn't much software out
there
for
MAC that interested me. I eventually threw the system in the garbage
within
three years, the last year of which I just held onto it needlessly
because
I
had spent so much money on it. Since then I've stuck with with PC's
and
have
never had a hardware problem that was the result of the manufacturer
or
windows software.

Apple sells fully featured computers? Sure, but at a premium and
with
very
little choice. The Mac Book has less features than my HP ZV6000, but
costs
more and only gives you a 12 or 13" screen. Add a couple hundred
dollars
more and I could get it that puny computer in Black...ooooh. If I
don't
like
the look of the MacBook (white/black), then my next option for a
laptop
would
be the MacBook Pro which is a jump in price of at least $700-$1500.
And
what
if I don't like that drab and cold aluminmum case, well then I guess
I'm
out
of luck, 'cause that's all there is. Having different PC
manufacturers
provides diversity of styles and competitive pricing (not rock bottom
quality...unless that's what you want because it would YOUR choice,
not
Apple's).

As for this Boot Camp thing...doesn't that, in a way, make OSX
superfluous?
and make Apple just another PC manufacturer? (albeit, an expensive,
over-hyped one at that).

Again with regard to the OS security issue: What hacker would invest
so
much time and effort into hacking an OS that only 5% of the entire
personal
computer market uses. That would be a waste.

And if you're so proud of your precious "OSX" that you so adamantly
defend,
what are you doing on the Windows Vista help and Support website in
the
first
place? Go back to your "la la" world of overpriced, overhyped,
overheating
Macs and listen to more childish, "chip on his shoulder" speeches by
Steve
Jobs about how Vista is a copycat when, at the same time, he calls
Leopar
"Vista 2.0." Huh?

I guess when there's no new innovation, Apple just starts up the mud
slinginger 2.0.

OSX SUX!





:

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with
positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only
one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing
faster
than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not
to
be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value.
Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are
scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is
not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a
Mac I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged
in.
All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells
fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so
they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the
worst
in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP
for) and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades
since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP
SP2
and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of
OS X
use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have
an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets
killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that
instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps
and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot
into
XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed.
Parallels
is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple
has to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines
all
day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you
have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI
(they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp
"innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up
with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like
paying
$130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows
unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target
hackers all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has
from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...


:

Hey folks

Looking at OSX Leapord http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ makes
me
want
to
switch to mac apart from the price of the hardware.

If Apple decided to release OSX for any pc (or as close as), do
you
think
you would ditch widows altogether?

I would like to see how many people would actually take the
plunge. As
you
can clearly see, with the superb streamline support and all the
extras,
and
MUCH cheaper software it already slams Vista in the face.

Common folks, be honest, i'm a pc user too, but i have to say
that if
i
could install this baby, instead of vista, i would be there in a
shot!

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

It would be tolerable if there weren't so many misrepresentations.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

I do the same with my MacBook Pro. Why would you need virtualization? It's
just an Intel based PC that happens to have Apple firmware and OS/X. That's
no different than running SuSE and XP on the same PC box. OS/X is now an
x86 unix variant.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

Full speed? No need for virtualization?

Absolutly no need for virtualization of any kind.

All you need is an Apple Intel PC, Apple's Boot Camp software (free
download, and will be fully-developed in Leopard), and a legal copy of
XP (Home or Pro). This does NOT include Upgrade disks, however, since
the Apple Eject key is not available to Windows until AFTER the Apple
Windows drivers are installed in Windows.

Windows runs a the FULL speed of the Intel Duo-Core processors in the
MiniMac (hehehe), the Intel iMacs, the MacBooks, the MacBook Pros, and
now the new Dual Duo-Core 64bit chips in the new Mac Pros just
released.

I have experienced absolutely NO slowdowns running XP Pro on my Intel
iMac. In fact, XP Pro runs BETTER on my iMac than it EVER did on a
Wintel PC. And it's rock-solid.

Boot Camp Assistant is basically just used to cut out free space on
the the Mac drive and create an NTFS or FAT32 partition on which to
install XP, and a bootmanager to switch between OS X and XP (but you
MUST reboot to get into XP, then must reboot to get back into OS X,
since only ONE OS is running at a time, and has FULL control over the
machine while it is.)

I don't know exactly WHY Apple created Boot Camp Assistant, but I'm
sure glad they did.

I now seldom use OS X anymore, and use my Intel iMac basically as a
great Windows PC.

All my Windows programs run, including all Windows-based games (don't
know about DOS games). And they all run MUCH better than they ever
did on a Wintel PC.

The Vista Advisor tells me that my Apple Intel PC will be able to run
Vista Ultimate Edition with no trouble at all. I have installed Vista
Beta 2 a few times. But right now, the only way to do that is to
delete the Mac EFI partition, since the Vista installer doesn't like
it, and refuses to install if its present. Deleting it has no effect
on running either OS, with the exception that once one deletes the
Apple EFI partition, he must completely reinstall OS X and delete
Vista if he wants to install Apple Hardware upgrades when they become
available. Hopefully, this will be fixed (one can always hope) when
Leopard is released next year.

I used my Apple Remote to switch boot volumes, since the Set Boot
Volume ControlPanel option is not present on Vista, nor does OS X
recognize the Vista volume once the EFI partition is removed, so it's
not possible to set the Vista volume as the boot volume from within OS
X's Preference Pane. So one must either hold down the "C" key when
booting, or use the Apple Remote to switch between boot volumes.

In addition, the Windows volume is accessible from within OS X (for
reading only), but the OS X volume is not accessible at all from
within XP or Vista.

I just use a common FAT32 volume on my external USB drive to pass
files back and forth between OS X and Windows, since both OSes can
read or write FAT32 volumes.


==

Donald L. McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
==========================================================

 

[deebs]

I must admit I'm a wee bit worried if saying I have a Mac and I have a
PC will attract scorn from both extremes

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Who cares? With the Intel Macs out now don't you think it is the wave of
the future anyway?

 

[deebs]

C'mon AMD?

Who cares? With the Intel Macs out now don't you think it is the wave of
the future anyway?