OSX Leopard

[Guest]

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI (they'd call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp "innovation"-please! If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up with these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying $130 for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...

 

[Bernie]

"I admit I didn't read the piece in any depth just looked at the pictures
and read the headlines"

It's amazing how some people admit their ignorance yet continue to mouth off
their opinions.

Fair point. But I've since gone back and read what was on that page and
I'm of the same opinion. If there is more there tell me where it is.

 

[mmmmark]

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not to be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value. Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a Mac I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in. All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the worst in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for) and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP SP2 and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS X use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot into XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed. Parallels is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines all day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

 

[Guest]

See but Time Machine is much better than VSS. and i mean much much. Where can
i find VSS in xp? ;p

 

[MICHAEL]

First, Apple's stock has benefited mostly because
of the Ipod and Itunes. That's a fact, jack.

Second, in January their stock was at about $85, it
is now at $67.56. August of last year, it was around
$45. So, yes, since last August the stock is up.

Third, since hitting $50 in July, Apple's stock has risen
about $17. I believe this is a result of the continued
excitement with Apple's switch to Intel, the preview
of OS X Leopard, *and* the ability to now run Windows
on Apple.

Fourth, if the investigation of stock option
reporting irregularities uncovers some significant
fraud- watch the hell out- Apple's stock will fall
and Steve Jobs will be gone.

Fifth, I haven't been infected with a computer
virus, except for intentional testing, since
1998.

Sixth, you haven't turned off your computer
since 1997? You need to get a life.

Seventh, HP has been on a tear since the
beginning of the year.

Lastly, all the various fanboys just love to run
their mouths.


--
Michael
______
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
- Mark Twain

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive earnings in the last
12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only one that is not in the crapper? Why is their
market share growing faster than any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have
chosen not to be a bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value. Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are scrambling to upscale to
recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is not really more
expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of components and support. [speaking of
quality components--I have a Mac I bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first
plugged in. All original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so they look cheaper and
then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the worst in this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for) and I'll happily pay an
upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades since 10.1 have dramatically increased speed.
Can you say that about XP SP2 and all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS X use, I've yet to get
ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection whatsoever. Can you say this? And going
back to Parallels, I have an instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP
gets killed due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that instance and
reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps and OS?.......10 minutes
tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot into XP with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of
a gamer, so not needed. Parallels is a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has to offer. I work in
corporate america and work with windows machines all day long, but I prefer to spend my hard
earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you have, then you can say
what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI (they'd call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp "innovation"-please! If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up with these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying $130 for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...

 

[deebs]

I think these are good points but the conclusion may be a bit off?

Perhaps as disposal income increases alternatives outside of the bargain
basement look more attractive?

In other words it is not the supplier that has conformed to new or newer
users but new users that have conformed to the supplier?

In this analysis Windows availability becomes a reassurance in the mind
of prospective new users?

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

No, I have not tried 1.1. If I do download it, it will be to see if there
are updated Mac drivers for XP. The bootcamp assistant wouldn't make any
difference since Windows doesn't need bootcamp once its up and running.

I had no issues with the bootcamp assistant. XP Pro SP2 installed in a
straightforward way and I set the Windows boot option to default. I have
been using XP without a problem.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Everytime you set a System Restore point, for one.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Yes it is. A 1GB ram module for MacBook Pro is $300 from Apple but the very
same ram module is $120 or less everywhere else. I know, I bought one. It
is the same memory exactly.

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not to be
a bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value.
Dell has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are
scrambling to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a Mac I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in. All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the worst
in this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for) and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP SP2 and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS X
use, I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that
instance and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL
apps and OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd
boot into XP with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed.
Parallels is a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines all day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI (they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp "innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying $130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...

 

[MICHAEL]

Good to know. I have just about made up my mind
to purchase a Mac.

-Michael

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Now that the Merom chips are coming out, I would wait just a tad. My MBP
has the Core Duo, but that is a 32bit chip. Merom is a laptop version of
Core 2 Duo and that is 64bit. I think Apple will switch over very soon. I
can put a Merom in my MBP (Apple will provide the service) but I will have
to pay to do it. If I were ordering today I would wait for the
availablility of MacBooks and MacBook Pros with 64bit support.

 

[MICHAEL]

Thanks, Colin. I had seen mention of that in an article awhile
back, and totally forgotten about it. I can be impulsive at
times when it comes to electronics.. I would have been pissed
at myself had I rushed out one weekend and bought a new Mac,
only to find out later of the newer chips coming out soon. The
MacBook Pro is what I have my eye on. Then put XP Pro on it, too.
Better, put XP Pro 64bit on it. Will that work?

As you've said before, it's nice having the best of both worlds on
one computer.

 

[deebs]

To be honest, I think any serious minded IT person is going to enter a
world of at least three OSs:
- Windows flavour of choice
- Mac Os (64 bit?)
- linux flavours as they appear and disappear

Reasoning?
* popularity
* contender
* see what's developing before it becomes a commercial product

 

[Mark D. VandenBeg]

"Shadow Copy" keeps a copy of every document as it is modified. And just
like Mac OS X, if you have an external hard drive, you too can back your
files up.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

I don't think Linux is a serious choice outside of the server room.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The problem right now with putting x64 on an Intel Mac is that the Mac
drivers for XP are only for x86. It would work for the ATI x1600 adaptor
because an x64 ATI driver would work, but I haven't checked on the Atheros
wireless adaptor, etc. The killer could turn out to be the keyboard. That
requires an Apple driver for Windows. You see Macs just don't have things
like a hardware eject for cd's etc. Apple's got too much proprietary
hardware, I fear.

 

[Guest]

Say what you want about stock price and quarterly increases that in the big
picture, don't say much. Apple has product placed and spent millions of
dollars on advertising (and with the exception of the more recent "I'm a mog"
ads) have been quite good. Yet, they're still in that lower, single-digit,
market share area that they've always been in since at least the late
80's...at about 3 to 5%.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't turned off your Mac since 1997, because
that's when I bought a Mac too. I bought the Power Mac 7300 (with the old
604e Power PC processor) just before they introduced the G3. What a clunky
pile of junk that computer turned out to be. Not only was it at least $1500
more than a comparable PC, I additionally had to buy a CRT monitor separately
(and this was during the era when Mac did license its software...remember the
Maclones?). The mouse was so slow and draggy and the OS was drab and in my
opion, put strict limits on what I was to know/comprehend about its
functioning. So when I had a problem with an application or something, it
was this big mystery 'cause it wouldn't tell you whether you had a faulty
driver, extension, etc. Instead, i would have to either reinstall the
software or the OS and I got so sick of hearing that lame "startup/showdown"
chord/sound droning over and over again. In a years time, after my warranty
expired, the floppy drive gave out and the CD-ROM tray became unreliable even
though I hadn't used it much since they're wasn't much software out there for
MAC that interested me. I eventually threw the system in the garbage within
three years, the last year of which I just held onto it needlessly because I
had spent so much money on it. Since then I've stuck with with PC's and have
never had a hardware problem that was the result of the manufacturer or
windows software.

Apple sells fully featured computers? Sure, but at a premium and with very
little choice. The Mac Book has less features than my HP ZV6000, but costs
more and only gives you a 12 or 13" screen. Add a couple hundred dollars
more and I could get it that puny computer in Black...ooooh. If I don't like
the look of the MacBook (white/black), then my next option for a laptop would
be the MacBook Pro which is a jump in price of at least $700-$1500. And what
if I don't like that drab and cold aluminmum case, well then I guess I'm out
of luck, 'cause that's all there is. Having different PC manufacturers
provides diversity of styles and competitive pricing (not rock bottom
quality...unless that's what you want because it would YOUR choice, not
Apple's).

As for this Boot Camp thing...doesn't that, in a way, make OSX superfluous?
and make Apple just another PC manufacturer? (albeit, an expensive,
over-hyped one at that).

Again with regard to the OS security issue: What hacker would invest so
much time and effort into hacking an OS that only 5% of the entire personal
computer market uses. That would be a waste.

And if you're so proud of your precious "OSX" that you so adamantly defend,
what are you doing on the Windows Vista help and Support website in the first
place? Go back to your "la la" world of overpriced, overhyped, overheating
Macs and listen to more childish, "chip on his shoulder" speeches by Steve
Jobs about how Vista is a copycat when, at the same time, he calls Leopar
"Vista 2.0." Huh?

I guess when there's no new innovation, Apple just starts up the mud
slinginger 2.0.

OSX SUX!

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not to be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value. Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a Mac I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in. All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the worst in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for) and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP SP2 and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS X use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot into XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed. Parallels is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines all day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI (they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp "innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying $130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...

 

[William]

Linux could be a serious competitor if it were not so fragmented among
so many distributions. The Linux thing kind of reminds me of how there
was no central authority in Nazi Germany for the development of new
military technologies. So there were dozens of independent efforts going
on at the same time to produce a useful air-to-air missile. The result
was they never succeeded, though some were getting really close.

William

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

There is a more serious issue and that is the status of proprietary files,
like device drivers, with respect to the distribution of Linux. The present
GPL sometimes works against Linux gaining traction as a desktop system.

 

[mmmmark]

Tom,

I've attempted to keep my information fact based and avoid personal attacks.
I also mentioned that I use/support various flavors of Windows everyday to
pay the bills. I'm ok that you don't share my enthusiasm to use a computer
that "just works" more often (in my case). I prefer to spend my own time
and energy (off the clock) accomplishing things--rather than fixing and
maintaining my own things.

I'm certainly not saying the world should be all Apple all the time.
Obviously, you won't be first in line to buy one and that's ok. I'm not
some blinded-by-the-light fanboy who follows Master Steve to drink the
koolaid. My opinions and preferences have been formed through my own
observations, tests and trials--I do not take someone else's word for
it--and I don't expect you to take mine. I personally don't believe anyone
has the right to criticize, attack or recommend a platform unless they have
spent extensive time working on it. Tom, I don't see how your experience on
a Mac running OS 9 in 1997 is relavent to today. The Mac I spoke about that
is still running from 1997 is a G3 and it is running 10.3.9 quite happily
and capably as a webserver.

I'm not trying to evangelize--I didn't start this thread, afterall. There
is obviously a lot of curiosity from the XP/Vista camp about OS X and there
should be. A good IT person knows what is out there and well versed in ALL
OSes.

If you're happy with what you are doing, by all means keep it up.

Regards,
Mark

Say what you want about stock price and quarterly increases that in the
big
picture, don't say much. Apple has product placed and spent millions of
dollars on advertising (and with the exception of the more recent "I'm a
mog"
ads) have been quite good. Yet, they're still in that lower,
single-digit,
market share area that they've always been in since at least the late
80's...at about 3 to 5%.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't turned off your Mac since 1997, because
that's when I bought a Mac too. I bought the Power Mac 7300 (with the old
604e Power PC processor) just before they introduced the G3. What a
clunky
pile of junk that computer turned out to be. Not only was it at least
$1500
more than a comparable PC, I additionally had to buy a CRT monitor
separately
(and this was during the era when Mac did license its software...remember
the
Maclones?). The mouse was so slow and draggy and the OS was drab and in
my
opion, put strict limits on what I was to know/comprehend about its
functioning. So when I had a problem with an application or something, it
was this big mystery 'cause it wouldn't tell you whether you had a faulty
driver, extension, etc. Instead, i would have to either reinstall the
software or the OS and I got so sick of hearing that lame
"startup/showdown"
chord/sound droning over and over again. In a years time, after my
warranty
expired, the floppy drive gave out and the CD-ROM tray became unreliable
even
though I hadn't used it much since they're wasn't much software out there
for
MAC that interested me. I eventually threw the system in the garbage
within
three years, the last year of which I just held onto it needlessly because
I
had spent so much money on it. Since then I've stuck with with PC's and
have
never had a hardware problem that was the result of the manufacturer or
windows software.

Apple sells fully featured computers? Sure, but at a premium and with
very
little choice. The Mac Book has less features than my HP ZV6000, but
costs
more and only gives you a 12 or 13" screen. Add a couple hundred dollars
more and I could get it that puny computer in Black...ooooh. If I don't
like
the look of the MacBook (white/black), then my next option for a laptop
would
be the MacBook Pro which is a jump in price of at least $700-$1500. And
what
if I don't like that drab and cold aluminmum case, well then I guess I'm
out
of luck, 'cause that's all there is. Having different PC manufacturers
provides diversity of styles and competitive pricing (not rock bottom
quality...unless that's what you want because it would YOUR choice, not
Apple's).

As for this Boot Camp thing...doesn't that, in a way, make OSX
superfluous?
and make Apple just another PC manufacturer? (albeit, an expensive,
over-hyped one at that).

Again with regard to the OS security issue: What hacker would invest so
much time and effort into hacking an OS that only 5% of the entire
personal
computer market uses. That would be a waste.

And if you're so proud of your precious "OSX" that you so adamantly
defend,
what are you doing on the Windows Vista help and Support website in the
first
place? Go back to your "la la" world of overpriced, overhyped,
overheating
Macs and listen to more childish, "chip on his shoulder" speeches by Steve
Jobs about how Vista is a copycat when, at the same time, he calls Leopar
"Vista 2.0." Huh?

I guess when there's no new innovation, Apple just starts up the mud
slinginger 2.0.

OSX SUX!

Why then is Apple's stock price the ONLY PC manufacturer with positive
earnings in the last 12 quarters? Why is their stock price the only one
that is not in the crapper? Why is their market share growing faster
than
any other PC manufacturer? The short answer is they have chosen not to
be a
bargain basement seller but focused on quality, longevity and value.
Dell
has run out of room to compete in the discount sector--they are
scrambling
to upscale to recoup falling market share and presence.

Compare "apples to apples" and you will see that Apple's hardware is not
really more expensive, especially when you factor in the quality of
components and support. [speaking of quality components--I have a Mac I
bought in 1997 and it has not been turned off since first plugged in.
All
original components--still serving up thousands daily!] Apple sells
fully
featured computers while most everyone else sells them bare bones so they
look cheaper and then kill you with up-selling options (Dell is the worst
in
this regard).

I'm happy to run XP in Parallels (for those few things I need XP for) and
I'll happily pay an upgrade tax about yearly. Each of the upgrades since
10.1 have dramatically increased speed. Can you say that about XP SP2
and
all the millions of lines of bloat?

Say what you want about vulnerabilities, but in over five YEARS of OS X
use,
I've yet to get ONE virus, trojan or exploit without any protection
whatsoever. Can you say this? And going back to Parallels, I have an
instance of XP saved on another hard drive so that whenever XP gets
killed
due to virus or its own ineptitude, all I need to do is delete that
instance
and reload the one saved from disk. Total time to restore ALL apps and
OS?.......10 minutes tops. If I needed game functionality, I'd boot into
XP
with bootcamp. I'm no longer much of a gamer, so not needed. Parallels
is
a great way to run any other OS on OS X.

I think you are disallusioned and not willing to learn what Apple has to
offer. I work in corporate america and work with windows machines all
day
long, but I prefer to spend my hard earned money on an Apple.

Before you dismiss Apple and Macs, just learn a few things. If you have,
then you can say what you want.

--Mark

Hell no. The overpriced proprietary hardware, the abstract UI (they'd
call
"simplified"...I'd call "dull". And this Boot Camp
"innovation"-please!
If
OSX so much better, why are they breaking their backs to come up with
these
"innovations" on how to run Windows XP?

And the OS "software upgrade" is not cheaper unless you like paying
$130
for
what is more like a service pack that Windows gives out for free.

The system vulnerability of OSX cannot be compared to Windows unless of
course Apple had 95% of the PC market, making it the target hackers all
around the world. The only apparent protection the Mac has from
hackers
is its overall unpopularity in the personal computer market.

I could go on, but I see that I already did...


:

Hey folks

Looking at OSX Leapord http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ makes me
want
to
switch to mac apart from the price of the hardware.

If Apple decided to release OSX for any pc (or as close as), do you
think
you would ditch widows altogether?

I would like to see how many people would actually take the plunge. As
you
can clearly see, with the superb streamline support and all the
extras,
and
MUCH cheaper software it already slams Vista in the face.

Common folks, be honest, i'm a pc user too, but i have to say that if
i
could install this baby, instead of vista, i would be there in a shot!