Ode to Kurttrail...

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

There is no slander in my post.
As for hate, in spite what Kurt says, I do not hate anyone including Kurt.
Kurt assumes I hate but that is Kurt and his assumptions.

"cannot handle the words of an individual"
No one said anyone can not handle Kurt's words or anyone else's for that
matter, that is except you since those are your words.
Sometimes they are handled by deleting the posts.

Some of Kurt's posts need to be deleted. Those include the posts and
threads he starts that contribute nothing except to insult or attack others.
These threads seem to come up after what seems to be a quiet spell of his.
Some should not be deleted but I do not make the decision any more than you.
Everyone would have differing standards so whoever set the standards would
go against the desires of others.
Kurt likes to whine when his posts are deleted, even when they are not as
happened a few days ago.
He assumed and then shortly found the error of another of his assumptions.

Whether Microsoft is right or wrong is a matter of opinion.
Microsoft has removed NOTHING outside of Microsoft property without consent
of the owner.
Just like anyone else, Microsoft has the right to control what is posted on
Microsoft servers.
Those who do not like it are free to post elsewhere.
A great many forums and websites exercise their rights to control their
property.
Microsoft gets bashed for exercising their rights.
No ones rights are infringed upon when Microsoft removes something from
Microsoft property.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org

 

[Leythos]

I'd ask, if were you a diplomat in your past life? But it's true you are in
this life. If I want free speech I'll fight for it. It doesn't come from a
personal webserver. Condoleeza Rice would say something like that Leythos
and, she has an iron fist.

But you don't seem to understand this his right to "Free Speech" has not
been trampled on. He, everyone, has a right to free speech. You do not
have a right to have messages you post to a private or commercial
service retailed for public viewing. While you have a right to post to
such places, the owners have a RIGHT to run them how THEY see fit.

This means that if he wants to get the message to the most people that
all he has to do it post to any Usenet server willing to accept his
message instead of targeting the server of the company he's attacking.

 

[Leythos]

[snip <<<<< visual indication]

Have you ever considered that war is evil and that torture never has a
justification?

Yes, for a few minutes, I have wondered if war was evil, and I've always
considered it a loss for both sides, but, normally, one side pays a
higher price than the other. In this case, considering what would have
happened had we done nothing, it was the right action and I fully
support it - even to the point of allowing my oldest son to Join the
Military with my blessing.

While you may not value your security, your safety, your fellow country-
mens lives, your freedom, many people around the world do and are
willing to pay for it with more than just lip service.

What the USA is doing today only promotes more war, not the freedom you
think it does. The USA has never been more despised round the world than
today and this can't lead to anything positive, your boilerplate right
wing BS notwithstanding.

The Patriot Act and the other nefarious and unconstitutional shenanigans
that the current administrating is engaging in strips anyone they want
to label as a terrorist of any and all civil rights. Yaknow, like in
China and the old USSR?

Ever hear of the McCarthy Era? Read the book, The Ugly American?

Spoken just like a non-American and someone that has never had to do
anything to maintain their freedoms.

 

[capitan]

Actually, since his posts are still around in the public, his posts were
not technically censored - they were deleted from a usenet server not
owned/operated by Kurt or anyone outside Microsoft, so they are
completely free to moderate their group as they feel it should be.

There is no single RIGHT TO POST, no single right to carry a post,
nothing that states they have to let you rant or act foul, or even act
nice. Your posts show in their server at their whim, just like every
other Usenet server in operation around the world - the owner/admin can
do anything they want.

I think there are some who may disagree with you, Leythos. At least
possibly American citizens, who live in a country where the idea of a
right to free speech is not only an amendment, but also ingrained in the
culture. I do not say this of course to imply that MS doesn't have the
right to delete or censor the post(s) they want, but I think it is
ridiculous to expect a culture such as one in the US to be completely
accepting of such a move.

 

[Leythos]

I think there are some who may disagree with you, Leythos. At least
possibly American citizens, who live in a country where the idea of a
right to free speech is not only an amendment, but also ingrained in the
culture. I do not say this of course to imply that MS doesn't have the
right to delete or censor the post(s) they want, but I think it is
ridiculous to expect a culture such as one in the US to be completely
accepting of such a move.

I live in America, was born here, family been here since the boat came
over, and served in the Military to keep the freedom we have. I would
say that only an idiot would expect to be able to many ANY statement of
any type in any location at any time and expect it to ALWAYS be
accepted.

If people can't understand that servers belong to someone or some
company, well, they must really be missing the boat. To attack a company
on it's own server is, well, for a better wording, just plain stupid and
and to expect the company/group to sit back and do nothing about it,
well, that's even stupider.

If he really cared about his "Message" he would get it out the best way
possible, posting it to a server that replicates with the most locations
around the world - and most all messages posted to non-MS Usenet
servers, to MS groups, make it back to the MS Usenet site also. The
difference is that deleting a message posted in such a manner, then
deleted by MS from the MS Usenet server, does not delete it from
anywhere else.....

Everyone needs to stop crying about rights, you have not RIGHTS on MS's
server. You only have the privileged that MS ALLOWS YOU.

 

[plew]

LOL! Ask John McCain about that one!

So if the Iraqi's torture you to save Iraqi lives, that's OK?

There is physical torture & mental torture; is mental torture more
acceptable? Intimidation is also a form of mental torture & that
especially happen every day in so-called peaceful areas of any
country.

 

[David Candy]

Where is Kurt when you need him. Maybe you'll do as you read his posts where I don't.

What is the copyright status of material published by the US government. Does anyone or any americian have a right to reuse such material? I seem to remember something like this?

 

[Michael Stevens]

In

[snip <<<<< visual indication]

Have you ever considered that war is evil and that torture never has
a justification?

Yes, for a few minutes, I have wondered if war was evil, and I've
always considered it a loss for both sides, but, normally, one side
pays a higher price than the other. In this case, considering what
would have happened had we done nothing, it was the right action and
I fully support it - even to the point of allowing my oldest son to
Join the Military with my blessing.

While you may not value your security, your safety, your fellow
country- mens lives, your freedom, many people around the world do
and are willing to pay for it with more than just lip service.

This war was never the right choice and will never be resolved, just as Viet
Nam was not resolved. This should have been the blueprint the Bush
administration consulted before entering into a war that will yield the same
success.
Now he is threatening to engage in another Bush folly with Iran. By engaging
in these wars, we are diluting our military strength and support from our
foreign allies.
I am not looking for a debate, just expressing an opinion. The great thing
about America, is we are still allowed to have an opinion, even if we are
not allowed to publicly express it to the President except from isolated
designated areas deemed appropriate to express our freedom of speech.
--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Kurt Kirsch]

[snip <<<<< visual indication]
Have you ever considered that war is evil and that torture never has a
justification?

Yes, for a few minutes, I have wondered if war was evil, and I've always
considered it a loss for both sides, but, normally, one side pays a
higher price than the other. In this case, considering what would have
happened had we done nothing, it was the right action and I fully
support it - even to the point of allowing my oldest son to Join the
Military with my blessing.

While you may not value your security, your safety, your fellow country-
mens lives, your freedom, many people around the world do and are
willing to pay for it with more than just lip service.

What the USA is doing today only promotes more war, not the freedom you
think it does. The USA has never been more despised round the world than
today and this can't lead to anything positive, your boilerplate right
wing BS notwithstanding.

The Patriot Act and the other nefarious and unconstitutional shenanigans
that the current administrating is engaging in strips anyone they want
to label as a terrorist of any and all civil rights. Yaknow, like in
China and the old USSR?

Ever hear of the McCarthy Era? Read the book, The Ugly American?

Spoken just like a non-American and someone that has never had to do
anything to maintain their freedoms.

What have you done? Scraped barnacles off the side of an Aircraft
carrier? Got in a barrel and serviced your shipmates?

Please! Nothing the Bushies have done have made us any safer.

And they only success in the so-called war on terror is that Bush &
Co. created the perfect training ground for terrorists in Iraq.

Oh, and Osama is still laughing!

The present day US government is the most incompetent since Jimmy
Carter! Congratulations conservatives!

 

[xheggenvy]

There is physical torture & mental torture; is mental torture more
acceptable? Intimidation is also a form of mental torture & that
especially happen every day in so-called peaceful areas of any
country.

I don't think any kind of torture is right, unless it is on the
USENET! ;-)

--
Crnpr!
Xheg
Frys-nabvagrq Zbqrengbe
zvpebfphz.chovp.jvaqbjfrkc.tbabeeurn
uggc://zvpebfphz.pbz/zfpbzzhavgl/vaqrk.cuc?fubjgbcvp=3
"Gehfgjbegul Pbzchgvat" vf bayl nabgure rknzcyr bs na Bklzbeba!
"Cebqhxg-Nxgvivrehat znpug serv"

 

[xheggenvy]

Very well, perhaps I should remove the adjective 'squarely'. However, I did
say that 'I might well have simply though Kurt was being somewhat
intolerant,' which would not disallow my believing that there was a good
deal of sense in much of what he said, only that he might be extreme in his
expression. Consequently, my conclusion is hardly inconsistent.

I find your use of what you assert to be a simile an attempt to misconstrue
the meaning of what I said. I certainly said nothing to justify your
innuendo that I am supporting a malefactor. Or are you judge, jury and
executioner?

Until he as censored you didn't fully support him, now that he's been
censored you said "now I find myself squarely in support of him.". You
didn't say you support him against censorship, just that you fully
support him since he was censored - nice try, but unless you can find
another way to state it, you support his assertions that people should
violate the licensing agreement since it's not enforced by any court
decision.

[remainder of post left in tact so you can see what you actually said]

How does this imply what he supports Kurttrail for? He doesn't specify,
so why put words in his mouth?

It would appear that he supports what Kurt stands for -

Truth, Justice, and Freedom, especially in one's own home.

I stand for the rights of the individual, much like our Founding
Fathers.

since he didn't
limit the scope of support. Most people that feel the need to partially
support something state the limitation.

Who said he was "most people?" Quite an assumption on your part.

You might want to go back and
read his reply in context.

Maybe you shouldn't assume more the he wrote.

--
Crnpr!
Xheg
Frys-nabvagrq Zbqrengbe
zvpebfphz.chovp.jvaqbjfrkc.tbabeeurn
uggc://zvpebfphz.pbz/zfpbzzhavgl/vaqrk.cuc?fubjgbcvp=3
"Gehfgjbegul Pbzchgvat" vf bayl nabgure rknzcyr bs na Bklzbeba!
"Cebqhxg-Nxgvivrehat znpug serv"

 

[xheggenvy]

Actually, since his posts are still around in the public, his posts were
not technically censored - they were deleted from a usenet server not
owned/operated by Kurt or anyone outside Microsoft, so they are
completely free to moderate their group as they feel it should be.

Ah, but then this should be labeled as moderated, not as PUBLIC.

There is no single RIGHT TO POST, no single right to carry a post,

I have the right to post. MS has the right to pull my posts. But
what does pulling my posts actually accomplish?

Does it make me look like the fool, or does it make MS look like a
fool?

They got all the power, but kurttrail must be stopped! ROFL!

I am totally insignificant in comparison to MS. Yet they waste their
time and money with me. It is totally ludicrous!

I know if the positions were reversed, and I had all the power, I
would just ignore some insignificant individual, because who really
gives a rat's ass about what they say.

It's like Tom Cruise suing everybody and their mother for printing the
rumors he is gay. By doing it, even though you ends up winning, I
still think that since he is so affected by it, that he really has
something to hide.

Same with MS & me. By paying such scrutiny to me, they are giving me
more credit than I am really due, and ends up just convincing people
that maybe MS really has something to hide to.

nothing that states they have to let you rant or act foul, or even act
nice. Your posts show in their server at their whim, just like every
other Usenet server in operation around the world - the owner/admin can
do anything they want.

If you want free speech, get your own webserver and an ISP that has no
sense of ethics and post anything you want.

Free Speech = no sense of ethics! Typical LameGirl!

LOL! I love free speech, ESPECIALLY for you right wing nut jobs!
Ya'll are free to continually put you foot into your mouths, and we
rational types get to laugh at you over and over again!

--
Crnpr!
Xheg
Frys-nabvagrq Zbqrengbe
zvpebfphz.chovp.jvaqbjfrkc.tbabeeurn
uggc://zvpebfphz.pbz/zfpbzzhavgl/vaqrk.cuc?fubjgbcvp=3
"Gehfgjbegul Pbzchgvat" vf bayl nabgure rknzcyr bs na Bklzbeba!
"Cebqhxg-Nxgvivrehat znpug serv"

 

[Kurt Kirsch]

But you don't seem to understand this his right to "Free Speech" has not
been trampled on. He, everyone, has a right to free speech. You do not
have a right to have messages you post to a private or commercial
service retailed for public viewing. While you have a right to post to
such places, the owners have a RIGHT to run them how THEY see fit.

This means that if he wants to get the message to the most people that
all he has to do it post to any Usenet server willing to accept his
message instead of targeting the server of the company he's attacking.

Am I attacking poor little Microsoft? Poor babies! Big Bad kurttrail
hurt poor little MS's feelings! I'm a bad booooooooooooy!

ROFL! The more you defend MS, the more ridiculous their pulling my
posts really sounds!

 

[Uranus Umbaba [MSFU]]

"And how could it even be perceived as personal?"
When Kurt specifically states he wants harm to come to my family.
People he has never met and knows nothing about.

ROFL! Put it the context in which I said it. You were being totally
self-righteous, and I was just wishing for you to be in the same
circumstances as those you were being superior to.

I was basically just wishing you to walk a mile in another persons
shoes so you could understand them better. But you weren't man enough
to walk that mile.

Kurt is unable to control himself and needs to insult and attack others
since he feels insecure without doing so.

Erroneous assumptions! I love it!

Oops, maybe I should hate it to prove for you how insecure I am!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Say whatever you like about me, Juppy. I'm man enough not to cry
about it. I learned long ago, if you dish it out, you better learn
how to take it in all good humor.

There are many with similar positions and they do not need the attacks as
Kurt does.

Do you go running to your Mommy when you feel attacked by my mere
words? Didn't she ever tell you about how stick and stones may hurt
your bones, but words really should never hurt you?

Silly Juppy Baby!

Oh oh! Am I doing it again? I'm a baaaaaaaaaad boooooooooooooy!

"another one that would carpet bomb nations for perceived EULA
infringements"
Such assumptions by you really leave the rest of what you might say
questionable.

Yes, you always find a means to rationalize away the truths you do not
want to hear.

The value of what Kurt posts is greatly diminished by his hating attitude.

I don't hate you, Juppy. I just don't respect you. See, that is the
truth, but I'm sure you'll find a way to rationalize that truth away
too!

Because what he says about my family, other people and me, it is clear he is
only concerned for the truth in so much as the truth can hurt Microsoft and
others he hates regardless the cost to others.

LOL! I hurt Microsoft! You are as idiotic as the moron(s) at MS that
made the decision to pull my past posts, and won't let me post as
kurttrail. Ya'll give me too much credit, and by doing so, you
actually bolster my credibility! It isn't me hurting you and MS, it
is you and MS that are hurting yourselves, and you both are too effin'
deaf, dumb, and blind too see it!

But at least MS isn't a little crybaby like you! I can respect them
for that.

If he had any concern for people he would demonstrate the concern instead of
his blind hate.

I do feel sorry for you.

Until he made that statement about my family, I had some degree of
confidence that he meant what he said. At that time it became clear his
hate overpowered any concern he may have had.

I meant what I said then, as I do know. Unfortunately you do not have
it in you to understand what you don't want to hear.

And NO, I do not read all of Kurt's writings.

Neither do I after I post them. But you do read a lot of my posts,
I'm sure. It is quite obvious that you are totally affected by me.

Yet another wrong assumption on your part.

You would be the expert on wrong assumptions based on your own
personal experience, but I think you took him too literally. I
believe what was being pointed out to you, that totally escape your
understanding, is that you are too hung up on me, and it makes you
look ridiculous. Just like MS's blanket censorship of my previous
posts and their not allowing me to post as kurttrail anymore, while
they have every right to pull any post it wants, makes them look more
ridiculous for doing so.

Yes. I know. You don't agree that MS looks ridiculous, and neither
does Leythos, but then again, you both don't see how ridiculous you
make yourselves look when dealing with the subject of little ole
kurttrail, that evil bad man!

Booohooo!

PMS: I have to say that I made myself laugh so hard today when I
created this particular alter-ego. And that is probably the
difference between us. I don't always take myself so seriously as you
do, and make it a point to find ways to laugh at myself as much as
possible. It's St. Paddy's day! Have a Guinness! I'm already on my
second one, and it's only 5:30 am!

L'Chaim!

 

[Leythos]

This war was never the right choice and will never be resolved, just as Viet
Nam was not resolved. This should have been the blueprint the Bush
administration consulted before entering into a war that will yield the same
success.
Now he is threatening to engage in another Bush folly with Iran. By engaging
in these wars, we are diluting our military strength and support from our
foreign allies.
I am not looking for a debate, just expressing an opinion.

I've been to many locations around the world, most of them places that
were and are still hostile to non-muslims, and was and is always going
to be a threat until we convert or die. Bush didn't create the mess, he
inherited it. In my opinion we didn't have a choice, it was time to
stand up against all the killings of Americans in and out of the USA, it
was time to take it to the enemy. If you think that Iran, North Kora,
Syria, China and several other countries are not a threat, then you
might want to study them for a couple days, you might change your
"opinion".

 

[Leythos]

Who said he was "most people?" Quite an assumption on your part.


Maybe you shouldn't assume more the he wrote.

Maybe, since this is a PUBLIC FORUM, if he wanted to limit the scope of
his statement he should have considered the wording of the statement as
we only have the statement to base our understanding on.

 

[Alias]

[snip <<<<< visual indication]
Have you ever considered that war is evil and that torture never has a
justification?
Yes, for a few minutes, I have wondered if war was evil, and I've always
considered it a loss for both sides, but, normally, one side pays a
higher price than the other. In this case, considering what would have
happened had we done nothing, it was the right action and I fully
support it - even to the point of allowing my oldest son to Join the
Military with my blessing.

While you may not value your security, your safety, your fellow country-
mens lives, your freedom, many people around the world do and are
willing to pay for it with more than just lip service.

What the USA is doing today only promotes more war, not the freedom you
think it does. The USA has never been more despised round the world than
today and this can't lead to anything positive, your boilerplate right
wing BS notwithstanding.

The Patriot Act and the other nefarious and unconstitutional shenanigans
that the current administrating is engaging in strips anyone they want
to label as a terrorist of any and all civil rights. Yaknow, like in
China and the old USSR?

Ever hear of the McCarthy Era? Read the book, The Ugly American?

Spoken just like a non-American

Ad hominem attack. Are "non-Americans" bad? Should they be locked up
without charges or legal recourse?

and someone that has never had to do
anything to maintain their freedoms.

Ad hominem attack. You have no idea what I have done for peoples'
freedoms but I can assure you it doesn't include killing and maiming
"non-Americans".

Care to address the issues or can you only try to shoot the messenger
with your false patriotism, hoping that the issues will go away?

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Ah, but then this should be labeled as moderated, not as PUBLIC.

If you read the Newsgroup TOS that they have online, it clearly permits
them to control content. Not all moderated groups have "moderated" in
their name, I can think of several...

And, that doesn't change anything - labeled or not, it's their server,
so you accept the constraints of the provider you post/read
through/from.

I have the right to post. MS has the right to pull my posts. But
what does pulling my posts actually accomplish?

No, you have no RIGHT TO POST, you have permission to post until MS
removes your permission to post through their servers. Heck, you don't
even have a RIGHT to use Usenet anywhere, not the internet for that
matter.

What does it accomplish - it doesn't matter, it's their server, we don't
have to agree or disagree with their RIGHT to maintain their server as
they see fit.

You all claim YOUR RIGHTS, but you fail to understand that THEY have
RIGHTS the same as you - they can do what they want with THEIR SERVICE
and you have to say in it.

 

[Alias]

I've been to many locations around the world, most of them places that
were and are still hostile to non-muslims, and was and is always going
to be a threat until we convert or die. Bush didn't create the mess, he
inherited it. In my opinion we didn't have a choice, it was time to
stand up against all the killings of Americans in and out of the USA, it
was time to take it to the enemy. If you think that Iran, North Kora,
Syria, China and several other countries are not a threat, then you
might want to study them for a couple days, you might change your
"opinion".

Most of the world considers the USA to be THE threat after studying how
they bomb innocent civilians, torture people, lock people up without
charge or legal recourse, etc.

If you think Bush is in Iraq to protect your "freedom", you're very naive.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Am I attacking poor little Microsoft? Poor babies! Big Bad kurttrail
hurt poor little MS's feelings! I'm a bad booooooooooooy!

ROFL! The more you defend MS, the more ridiculous their pulling my
posts really sounds!

I'm not defending Microsoft and you know it, at least I would hope
you're smart enough to see that. I'm defending the RIGHTS of a company
to control and maintain their own service/hardware in any manner they
see fit, and to remove anything THEY feel is objectionable at their
discretion. In the case of Usenet services, no company is required to
maintain your posts/replies, any company can delete your posts/replies
as they see fit. Your rights to post/reply are not greater then their
right to control their OWN SERVER.