ntbackup restore issue

S

SBS user

When doing a full system restore (C drive and system state) with a .bkf file
to a winxp home system I get the following error at the end of the restore:

Windows File Protection - Files that are required for windows to run
properly have been replaced by unrecognized versions. To maintain system
stability Windows must restore the original versions of these files. Insert
your WinXP Home Edition CD-ROM now.

If I put in the CD and let it restore the files the computer blue screens
upon reboot. If I do not put the CD in and not replace the files it still
blue screens upon reboot? Is there a proper way to deal with windows file
protection? Should I be doing somehting different in my process?
 
S

sgopus

Seeing as how backups using ntbackup are well known for being bad, ie not
copying all files in the first place. Also how old is the backup?
a better backup software is Acronis True Image
 
B

BillW50

In sgopus typed on Wed, 2 Sep 2009 15:35:01 -0700:
Seeing as how backups using ntbackup are well known for being bad, ie
not copying all files in the first place. Also how old is the backup?
a better backup software is Acronis True Image

Acronis True Image also has it share of not restoring problems. As once
you move the backup to another backup drive, the restore is broken. I
can't use products that breaks during a restore.
 
S

sgopus

if it ain't designed to be used that way it will break, what else do you
expect!

use it in the way it's designed.

I've used the product for years and never had a problem with restoring,
works just like advertised.
 
B

BillW50

In sgopus typed on Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:45:01 -0700:
if it ain't designed to be used that way it will break, what else do
you expect!

use it in the way it's designed.

I've used the product for years and never had a problem with
restoring, works just like advertised.

Say you have you backup drive and you noticed your backup drive is
failing. So you buy a new drive and clone your backups to this new
drive. Guess what? Acronis True Image can't restore from the new drive.
You must use the old failing drive or nothing at all. If Acronis True
Image wasn't designed to use a new backup drive, then what good is it?
 
P

Paul Randall

BillW50 said:
In sgopus typed on Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:45:01 -0700:

Say you have you backup drive and you noticed your backup drive is
failing. So you buy a new drive and clone your backups to this new drive.
Guess what? Acronis True Image can't restore from the new drive. You must
use the old failing drive or nothing at all. If Acronis True Image wasn't
designed to use a new backup drive, then what good is it?

Someone please say it isn't so. If this is the way Acronis True Image
works, then I just bought a piece of junk.

I'm used to the DOS version of Norton Ghost & GDisk. They do what I want
with partitions & image files, no matter where the image files currently
reside. They can't handle the Vista MBR, but that is easily fixed with free
DOS utilities.

-Paul Randall
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Paul Randall said:
Someone please say it isn't so. If this is the way Acronis True Image
works, then I just bought a piece of junk.

Acronis TrueImage will restore an image back to any disk, provided there is
enough free space on the selected partition.
 
P

Paul Randall

Pegasus said:
Acronis TrueImage will restore an image back to any disk, provided there
is enough free space on the selected partition.

That is half the problem. Will it restore an image from any disk, ie, from
a disk NOT the disk on which Acronis TrueImage originally created the image?

-Paul Randall
 
B

Bennett Marco

Paul Randall said:
That is half the problem. Will it restore an image from any disk, ie, from
a disk NOT the disk on which Acronis TrueImage originally created the image?

-Paul Randall

What part of "will restore an image back to any disk" are you having a
problem understanding?
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Paul Randall said:
That is half the problem. Will it restore an image from any disk, ie,
from a disk NOT the disk on which Acronis TrueImage originally created the
image?

-Paul Randall

That's what I said and that's what I have done on numerous occasions.
Acronis does NOT care what disk you use as a target disk.
 
B

BillW50

in message
That's what I said and that's what I have done on numerous occasions.
Acronis does NOT care what disk you use as a target disk.

That isn't what I said either. Try taking the last version or two of
Acronis TrueImage. Backup to your backup drive. Now pretend that backup
drive needs to be replaced for some reason. It's full, failing, or
whatever. Now copy everything from the backup drive to another drive.
Now from this drive, try to restore. From what I hear, the latest
versions won't work and you are now screwed. Older versions will still
allow this.
 
B

Bill in Co.

BillW50 said:
in message


That isn't what I said either. Try taking the last version or two of
Acronis TrueImage. Backup to your backup drive. Now pretend that backup
drive needs to be replaced for some reason. It's full, failing, or
whatever. Now copy everything from the backup drive to another drive.
Now from this drive, try to restore. From what I hear, the latest
versions won't work and you are now screwed. Older versions will still
allow this.

That's interesting to hear. I'm guessing by latest version(s), you
probably mean after Acronis True Image version 11, but I'm not sure. (I
have Acronis True Image version 11, but haven't tried that out,
specifically).
 
B

BillW50

in message
in message


That isn't what I said either. Try taking the last version or two of
Acronis TrueImage. Backup to your backup drive. Now pretend that
backup
drive needs to be replaced for some reason. It's full, failing, or
whatever. Now copy everything from the backup drive to another drive.
Now from this drive, try to restore. From what I hear, the latest
versions won't work and you are now screwed. Older versions will
still
allow this.

That's interesting to hear. I'm guessing by latest version(s), you
probably mean after Acronis True Image version 11, but I'm not sure.
(I have Acronis True Image version 11, but haven't tried that out,
specifically).[/QUOTE]

Yes that is the story I have heard. Paragon Drive Backup v9 doesn't seem
to work even with the Linux CD boot disc if the screen resolution is too
small (bad for netbooks). Ghost seems to work 100% if it is Windows,
although if it is Linux based I had it screw up once.

Using BartPE and just copying everything with A43 (freeware file
manager) to a backup drive has always worked for Windows for me. Except
if it has MS Works v9. Then Works will fail to run if you restore it.
Meaning if you run a shortcut for Works, it acts like it is loading and
then nothing. Not listed as a process or anything.
 
B

Bennett Marco

BillW50 said:
in message


That isn't what I said either. Try taking the last version or two of
Acronis TrueImage. Backup to your backup drive. Now pretend that backup
drive needs to be replaced for some reason. It's full, failing, or
whatever. Now copy everything from the backup drive to another drive.
Now from this drive, try to restore. From what I hear, the latest
versions won't work and you are now screwed. Older versions will still
allow this.

You hear wrong. I have used Acronis True Image (every version) since
ver. 8.0 - and all of them work fine. Just tried it with 2009 to make
sure I wasn't dreaming... I have FOUR internal drives and it will
restore to any of the four. ANY of the four.
 
D

Daave

BillW50 said:
Try taking the last version or two of
Acronis TrueImage. Backup to your backup drive. Now pretend that
backup drive needs to be replaced for some reason. It's full,
failing, or whatever. Now copy everything from the backup drive to
another drive. Now from this drive, try to restore. From what I hear,
the latest versions won't work and you are now screwed. Older
versions will still allow this.

What kind of backup are you talking about? If you create one giant image
archive file, it's all self-contained. There is no reason you can't copy
it to another medium and then initiate the restore process. Whenever
someone says the words "from what I hear," that raises a red flag. On
the other hand, if you can provide a link that contains factual
evidence, I would be interested in looking at it.
 
B

BillW50

In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:39:00 +0200:
Acronis TrueImage will restore an image back to any disk, provided
there is enough free space on the selected partition.

I did research on this for days and found using search engines this just
isn't so. And here I found a reoccurring theme.

1) A different build number won't restore from another one. Will usually
say the file is corrupt and you can't do anything with it.

2) If a backup fails, it doesn't notify you and stores it deep in the
logs.

3) Problems with 64 character serial number reverting back to trial
version at next startup.

4) Has problems with missing MBR or non-standard MBR drives.

5) Has problems with some USB Card Readers.

6) Emailing support takes 5 to 6 weeks for an answer, which usually has
nothing with the problem you are having.

7) Can't restore Digital Rights Management correctly.
 
T

Twayne

BillW50 said:
In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:39:00 +0200:


I don't use Acronis TI and only tested it briefly. Following are a few
questions and comment just as a sort of "food for thought" response.
Maybe TI is that borked, I don't know, but I suspect something else is
going on. You DO talk about the current version, right? Not an old
one?
I did research on this for days and found using search engines this
just isn't so. And here I found a reoccurring theme.

That's one way to do it, but ... it's not a fully reliable method. A
"reoccurring theme" may or may not just be coincidence and the
perception of the authors, not reality. Often documentation can end up
being the actual culprit; poorly written or not read.
Also, I haven't seen any evidence of this "reoccurring theme" on any
of the groups I read.
Are these old posts or are they about the current version of TI?
Comments on old revs isn't of much use.
1) A different build number won't restore from another one. Will
usually say the file is corrupt and you can't do anything with it.

I'll guess, since you failed to define it, that "build number" indicates
an update to the product. The use of "Build Number" also makes me
suspect you're trying out BETA and other unofficial releases?
Well anyway, a "build number" means modified software, right? It's
different. Did the docs say it was compatible? Did you try it out to
see if it was? Assumptions make poor facts. So this one appears to be
attributable to the user.
2) If a backup fails, it doesn't notify you and stores it deep in the
logs.

I believe I've seen backup verification talked about w/r to TI. And I
know you can verify at backup time. Have you done either? Have you
learned how to read the logs and where such information might be
contained so you can glance at it after a backup and/or periodically?
If that's too much work, run a scheduled batch file periodically to
check it.
3) Problems with 64 character serial number reverting back to trial
version at next startup.

No idea on that one. IF so, have you checked to be sure it's a
recognized bug so it'll get fixed? Are you positive it's TI and not
system file corruption somewhere?
4) Has problems with missing MBR or non-standard MBR drives.

Uhh, you back up drives with a missing MBR? You have system problems
and this probably accounts for the preceding item 3.
5) Has problems with some USB Card Readers.

Annoyances or actual problems? Data is data. If the machine allows
access to data and can send/receive the data, TI won't care where it
comes from.
Would this be just a TI issue or any program?
6) Emailing support takes 5 to 6 weeks for an answer, which usually
has nothing with the problem you are having.

TI doesn't have forums and/or newsgroups? Those are often the best
source of assistance anyway. If suppost is that lousy, look for
workarounds or change products.
7) Can't restore Digital Rights Management correctly.
No idea. Does it save it correctly?

I can tell you what with the exception of #5 I have no such problems
with Ghost 14. And Item 4, well, I've had bad MBRs successfully backup
AND restore in the past. Actually, I don't know that Ghost will put the
MBR in an image. I know it does for a clone operation, which I've heard
is someting TI does't do for some reason. The MBR would be important
for a clone operation but as far as data goes, I don't think it's even
included in the images; I could be wrong.

I mentioned Ghost but it's about $10 more expensive than TI last I
looked. If you're on the tech-type at all and broke, BootItNG is
cheaper than either one and works as advertised, just without the bells
& whistles. I've installed it for a couple customers and it seems to do
exactly what it claims to do.
 
B

BillW50

In Twayne typed on Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:12:12 -0400:
I don't use Acronis TI and only tested it briefly. Following are a
few questions and comment just as a sort of "food for thought"
response. Maybe TI is that borked, I don't know, but I suspect
something else is going on. You DO talk about the current version,
right? Not an old one?


That's one way to do it, but ... it's not a fully reliable method. A
"reoccurring theme" may or may not just be coincidence and the
perception of the authors, not reality. Often documentation can end up
being the actual culprit; poorly written or not read.
Also, I haven't seen any evidence of this "reoccurring theme" on any
of the groups I read.
Are these old posts or are they about the current version of TI?
Comments on old revs isn't of much use.

Lots of people said they used the earlier versions and they served them
just fine. It is the newer versions giving them all of the headaches.
I'll guess, since you failed to define it, that "build number"
indicates an update to the product. The use of "Build Number" also
makes me suspect you're trying out BETA and other unofficial releases?
Well anyway, a "build number" means modified software, right? It's
different. Did the docs say it was compatible? Did you try it out to
see if it was? Assumptions make poor facts. So this one appears to
be attributable to the user.

Nope, this is official build numbers from Acronis themselves. And
Acronis admits this can happen and they don't support one build
restoring from another build number.

http://kb.acronis.com/content/1517
I believe I've seen backup verification talked about w/r to TI. And I
know you can verify at backup time. Have you done either? Have you
learned how to read the logs and where such information might be
contained so you can glance at it after a backup and/or periodically?
If that's too much work, run a scheduled batch file periodically to
check it.

I don't use Acronis, so I don't know why this guy was having this
problem. But read for yourself.

"More importantly, if a backup fails you get no notification! Instead it
quietly buries the evidence in the log file in the hope that one day you
might browse it and see the failed backup. Come on Acronis, this is our
data we're talking about! If a backup fails I want alarm bells to ring!"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Acronis-True-Image-Home-2009/dp/B001GCTRBE
No idea on that one. IF so, have you checked to be sure it's a
recognized bug so it'll get fixed? Are you positive it's TI and not
system file corruption somewhere?

Sounds like retail recent versions sold in stores to me when I was
reading the complains about it. They were complaining about typing in 64
characters in the first place. And it worked, if you got the code from
the web. But the next time you reloaded ATI, it dropped back to a trial
version again.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Acronis-True-Image-Home-2009/dp/B001GCTRBE
Uhh, you back up drives with a missing MBR? You have system problems
and this probably accounts for the preceding item 3.

Only boot drives require a MBR. System and data drives do not. You can
have MBR on them too, but you don't need one. And Acronis won't support
them if they don't.

http://kb.acronis.com/content/1515
Annoyances or actual problems? Data is data. If the machine allows
access to data and can send/receive the data, TI won't care where it
comes from.
Would this be just a TI issue or any program?

Acronis claims they have a new build to fix this problem. But now you
know from Acronis your already made backups with another build that it
may no longer work.

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/support/kb/articles/1047/

TI doesn't have forums and/or newsgroups? Those are often the best
source of assistance anyway. If suppost is that lousy, look for
workarounds or change products.

There was a third party that had a forum, but it was closed down.
Acronis now has their own. Although not many are around to help.
No idea. Does it save it correctly?

I can tell you what with the exception of #5 I have no such problems
with Ghost 14. And Item 4, well, I've had bad MBRs successfully
backup AND restore in the past. Actually, I don't know that Ghost
will put the MBR in an image. I know it does for a clone operation,
which I've heard is someting TI does't do for some reason. The MBR
would be important for a clone operation but as far as data goes, I
don't think it's even included in the images; I could be wrong.

I mentioned Ghost but it's about $10 more expensive than TI last I
looked. If you're on the tech-type at all and broke, BootItNG is
cheaper than either one and works as advertised, just without the
bells & whistles. I've installed it for a couple customers and it
seems to do exactly what it claims to do.

Well I can tell you simply by using WinPE or BartPE and a file manager
like A43 can copy to anything that the BIOS can see (including USB
devices) and you can restore the same way and that costs nothing. The
only time it didn't work is if MS Works v9 was copied. As Works is
broken if you copy it that way for some reason.

Paragon Drive Backup also has a free version and the commercial version
can be found on giveawayoftheday.com every 6 months or so for a day.

I do use Ghost v11 (DOS 32-bit version) with BartPE. And that does copy
the MBR if you tell it to do so. Ghost will also ignore bad sectors
(although you have to tell it's okay). While ATI won't let you restore
even with a non-important single bad sector.

Acronis fix if you can't restore it from an USB device, to copy the
file(s) to an internal drive. Nice fix, eh?
 

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