Norton SpyBot?

[John Brock]

When the upgrade subscription for the Norton Anti-Virus 2003 which
came loaded on my new PC ran out (after only a couple of months I
might add, not the year I was expecting) I upgraded to NAV 2004,
because it claims to catch "certain non-virus threats such as
spyware and keystroke loggers." Some random Usenet comment had
lead me to believe that NAV 2003 wouldn't do this. Having subsequently
discovered this newsgroup I am curious to know how well NAV deals
with "non-virus threats" compared to programs like SpyBot and others
which have been mentioned here.

As a separate question, can someone explain to me why all anti-virus
programs don't catch spyware and adware as a matter of course? As
far as I am concerned *any* program which installs itself on my PC
without my permission is a virus, and should be caught by any
respectable AV program!

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Quoth the raven named John Brock:

When the upgrade subscription for the Norton Anti-Virus 2003 which
came loaded on my new PC ran out (after only a couple of months I
might add, not the year I was expecting) I upgraded to NAV 2004,
because it claims to catch "certain non-virus threats such as
spyware and keystroke loggers." Some random Usenet comment had
lead me to believe that NAV 2003 wouldn't do this. Having
subsequently discovered this newsgroup I am curious to know how
well NAV deals with "non-virus threats" compared to programs like
SpyBot and others which have been mentioned here.

Since I don't use NAV, I can't answer the specific question, other
than to say that I would not expect an a-v program to do anything else.

As a separate question,

can someone explain to me why all anti-virus programs don't catch
spyware and adware as a matter of course? As far as I am concerned
*any* program which installs itself on my PC without my permission
is a virus, and should be caught by any respectable AV program!

Those *any* programs that install themselves that you speak of are not
all viruses. Your description is similar to referring to viruses sent
by your infected friends as spam. Viruses are not spam, and vice-versa.

Anti-virus software finds viruses. Anti-trojan software finds trojans.
Anti-malware software ... well, you get the idea.

You don't buy a Ford Focus and attempt to haul sheets of plywood. You
get a truck.

The first line of defense is your head. After that, get a good a-v
program (avast! is free), get SpybotS&D and AdAware, perhaps the
A-squared anti-trojan program, and keep in mind the specialty stuff
like Stinger and the CoolWebSearch shredder.

BTW, all this stuff is free. Why buy NAV?

 

[mzlindyone]

Quoth the raven named John Brock: [...]

can someone explain to me why all anti-virus programs don't catch
spyware and adware as a matter of course? As far as I am concerned
*any* program which installs itself on my PC without my permission
is a virus, and should be caught by any respectable AV program!

Those *any* programs that install themselves that you speak of are not
all viruses.

[...]

They're also not all installed without your permission, whether you
realize you're giving permission or not. Many come with so-called
"free" programs. Others may be included in a website's AUP/EULA,
which of course you may only get to view *after* the software has
downloaded and installed itself. In any case if you're browsing with
IE with Active-X and javascript enabled, you're giving permission for
any website to do pretty much what it wants to, anywhere on your
computer.

Carol

 

[FromTheRafters]

As a separate question, can someone explain to me why all anti-virus
programs don't catch spyware and adware as a matter of course?

Viruses are a special case. Most of the other threats are
dealt with by different methods. Not all Spyware is bad,
and not all Adware is illegitimate - but all viruses are, and
the same goes for (most?) worms.

As far as I am concerned *any* program which installs itself
on my PC without my permission is a virus,

Misuse of terminology is no reason for technology to change.
Everybody *thinks* that they know what a "meteor" is, but
few actually do - and weather prognosticators are still called
meteorologists despite what misconceptions people have.

and should be caught by any respectable AV program!

They are starting to include optional def sets to address what
are being called "potentially unwanted programs" - strangely
I haven't seen the definition for IE/OE there yet though. ;o)

 

[John Brock]

Quoth the raven named John Brock:

Those *any* programs that install themselves that you speak of are not
all viruses. Your description is similar to referring to viruses sent
by your infected friends as spam. Viruses are not spam, and vice-versa.

Anti-virus software finds viruses. Anti-trojan software finds trojans.
Anti-malware software ... well, you get the idea.

You don't buy a Ford Focus and attempt to haul sheets of plywood. You
get a truck.

I don't think this is a good analogy. The purpose of AV software
is to find and remove programs that were put on your computer
without your permission. Now if you gave permission -- however
thoughtlessly -- that is one thing. But other than that I don't
see how the mechanism by which the program was placed on your
machine or what the program actually does matters at all. And
technically I don't see any difference between searching a hard
drive for viruses, searching a hard drive for trojans, searching
a hard drive for mal-ware..., well, you get the idea. Why
should you need a bunch of separate programs all doing essentially
the same task?

The first line of defense is your head. After that, get a good a-v
program (avast! is free), get SpybotS&D and AdAware, perhaps the
A-squared anti-trojan program, and keep in mind the specialty stuff
like Stinger and the CoolWebSearch shredder.

BTW, all this stuff is free. Why buy NAV?

From the point of view of a grown-up with a job and only one PC
NAV is pretty close to being free. If it's more effective or easier
to use that makes it worthwhile. But it's interesting to see the
opinions in this newsgroup. Maybe after my current 1yr subscription
is up I'll try something else.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Quoth the raven named John Brock:

I don't think this is a good analogy.

Maybe not, but car analogies are always fun.

The purpose of AV software is to find and remove programs that were
put on your computer without your permission. Now if you gave
permission -- however thoughtlessly -- that is one thing.

Some malware is mentioned deep in a EULA, but a lot is contracted by
uneducated surfing, using insecure browsers, and/or opening emails
that appear to be from your friends.

But other than that I don't see how the mechanism by which the
program was placed on your machine or what the program actually
does matters at all. And technically I don't see any difference
between searching a hard drive for viruses, searching a hard drive
for trojans, searching a hard drive for mal-ware..., well, you get
the idea. Why should you need a bunch of separate programs
all doing essentially the same task?

My guess is: in the future we will have a common OS that is impervious
to such malware. Way in the future. Call me an optimist. <g>

In the "Question about McAfee software" thread, Art answered a
question which is appropriate to this conversation:

KLINK said:
Go to the McAfee website and download Stinger. I should take care of
all your problems.

Art replied:
It never ceases to amaze me how people get it in their heads that a
utility that can only clean a small handful out of well over 100,000
possible malwares "should take care of your problems". Hell, if such a
tool existed, it would cost a fortune.

....

From the point of view of a grown-up with a job

Heh, I hope that wasn't meant to imply I'm not a grown-up. I could
post a scan of my retirement check.

and only one PC NAV is pretty close to being free. If it's more
effective or easier to use that makes it worthwhile. But it's
interesting to see the opinions in this newsgroup. Maybe after my
current 1yr subscription is up I'll try something else.

Since you are already subscribed, by all means continue to use it.

 

[FromTheRafters]

I don't think this is a good analogy. The purpose of AV software
is to find and remove programs that were put on your computer
without your permission.

Actually, I see the purpose of AV as preventative. Most AV
programs (and vendors) also offer removal tools, but that is
not the primary function.

Now if you gave permission -- however
thoughtlessly -- that is one thing. But other than that I don't
see how the mechanism by which the program was placed on your
machine or what the program actually does matters at all.

If it's there, then that (how) is the *only* thing that really matters.
If you just use a removal tool without addressing the problem of
how it was allowed to happen in the first place, then you have not
gained anything. The next one could be worse, and not recognized
yet by *any* scanner.