No reinstall disk/files for refurb pc

[Guest]

Hi, all:

(I asked a version of this question on another forum yesterday, so pls
forgive the doublepost if you read it, but it seems it wasn't reaching
experts, so I'm trying again here, more concisely)

I just bought a refurbished laptop from a little, local shop. The guy at
the shop put a fresh installation of windows XP Pro, SP2 on it.

I believe that I have a legal copy of the OS -- so I have the license to it,
I guess -- but I have no installation disk, and no files with which I could
reinstall if I needed to do that. So my questions for the electronosphere
are 1) can he do that? I mean, is he not required to provide me with some
way of reinstalling what he just installed? and 2) if he *can* do that,
what's the cheapest legal way for me to get myself the files that I need,
when (not if) I need them any of the many reasons one does occasionally need
them?

The COA on the underside of the laptop does not say "OEM Product" (when I
used the MS site's "is my software legal" thinger, that was one of the
questions I had to answer). I don't know what kind of license he used, but
he sells quite a few desktop and laptops each month, and I'm sure he's wiping
all the hard-drives and doing a fresh (likely legal) install on each.

I have had help confirming one of the things he told me: he did not copy the
file to the computer that I would normally look to find to make myself a
reintallation disk. While there are several directories named i386, there is
not a C:\i386 or C:\Windows\i386, and none of the ones that do exist contains
the hundreds or thousands of files that the one I'm wishing for would have.
HE says he's not obligated to provide me with reinstallation files. He says
for him to copy such file onto my hard-drive would be a violation of
copyright.

He says if I ever need to reinstall or use such files, my remedy is to
borrow someone else's installation CD, but then of course use my own product
key for activation. This concerns me, since I don't know precisely what
characteristics the borrowed CD would have to have. I'm guessing it would
need to be a straight MS CD, and not someone else's hdwe manufacturer's
version, and not an upgrade version. I don't even know what other things to
look out for, nor how to find someone who could supply what I would need, and
of course, I'd like to learn that I don't have to worry about that because
**he owes me a disk**. Or at least some files.

What are the rules? What can I do? Thanks!

 

[Maincat]

Hi, all:

(I asked a version of this question on another forum yesterday, so pls
forgive the doublepost if you read it, but it seems it wasn't reaching
experts, so I'm trying again here, more concisely)

I just bought a refurbished laptop from a little, local shop. The guy at
the shop put a fresh installation of windows XP Pro, SP2 on it.

I believe that I have a legal copy of the OS -- so I have the license to
it,
I guess -- but I have no installation disk, and no files with which I
could
reinstall if I needed to do that. So my questions for the electronosphere
are 1) can he do that? I mean, is he not required to provide me with some
way of reinstalling what he just installed? and 2) if he *can* do that,
what's the cheapest legal way for me to get myself the files that I need,
when (not if) I need them any of the many reasons one does occasionally
need
them?

The COA on the underside of the laptop does not say "OEM Product" (when I
used the MS site's "is my software legal" thinger, that was one of the
questions I had to answer). I don't know what kind of license he used,
but
he sells quite a few desktop and laptops each month, and I'm sure he's
wiping
all the hard-drives and doing a fresh (likely legal) install on each.

I have had help confirming one of the things he told me: he did not copy
the
file to the computer that I would normally look to find to make myself a
reintallation disk. While there are several directories named i386, there
is
not a C:\i386 or C:\Windows\i386, and none of the ones that do exist
contains
the hundreds or thousands of files that the one I'm wishing for would
have.
HE says he's not obligated to provide me with reinstallation files. He
says
for him to copy such file onto my hard-drive would be a violation of
copyright.

He says if I ever need to reinstall or use such files, my remedy is to
borrow someone else's installation CD, but then of course use my own
product
key for activation. This concerns me, since I don't know precisely what
characteristics the borrowed CD would have to have. I'm guessing it would
need to be a straight MS CD, and not someone else's hdwe manufacturer's
version, and not an upgrade version. I don't even know what other things
to
look out for, nor how to find someone who could supply what I would need,
and
of course, I'd like to learn that I don't have to worry about that because
**he owes me a disk**. Or at least some files.

What are the rules? What can I do? Thanks!

You must be given some way to reinstall the OS, either the CD or the files
on a hidden partition is usual.
Go back to the supplier and ask for the disk.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Hi, all:

(I asked a version of this question on another forum yesterday, so pls
forgive the doublepost if you read it, but it seems it wasn't reaching
experts, so I'm trying again here, more concisely)

I just bought a refurbished laptop from a little, local shop. The guy at
the shop put a fresh installation of windows XP Pro, SP2 on it.

I believe that I have a legal copy of the OS

Based on what you've said below, I'd have to conclude that you most
definitely do not have a legitimate license.

-- so I have the license to it,
I guess

There's no guessing to it. If the seller did not provide you with the
installation media, a Certificate of Authenticity, and the Product Key,
you do not have a valid license.

reinstall if I needed to do that. So my questions for the electronosphere
are 1) can he do that?

If you let him get away with it and don't report him to your local law
enforcement agencies, yes.

I mean, is he not required to provide me with some
way of reinstalling what he just installed?

Yes, he is, if the purchase price of the computer included the
operating system.

and 2) if he *can* do that,
what's the cheapest legal way for me to get myself the files that I need,
when (not if) I need them any of the many reasons one does occasionally need
them?

Buy a legitimate license from an honest business.

The COA on the underside of the laptop does not say "OEM Product" ....

It won't. But it's very presence means that there is an OEM license
assigned to that computer.

... (when I
used the MS site's "is my software legal" thinger, that was one of the
questions I had to answer). I don't know what kind of license he used, but
he sells quite a few desktop and laptops each month, and I'm sure he's wiping
all the hard-drives and doing a fresh (likely legal) install on each.

To determine what kind of license was used to install WinXP on the
laptop, simply look at the Product ID (on the My Computer > Properties >
General Tab). If it contains the letters "OEM," he used an OEM CD to
perform the installation.

I have had help confirming one of the things he told me: he did not copy the
file to the computer that I would normally look to find to make myself a
reintallation disk. While there are several directories named i386, there is
not a C:\i386 or C:\Windows\i386, and none of the ones that do exist contains
the hundreds or thousands of files that the one I'm wishing for would have.
HE says he's not obligated to provide me with reinstallation files. He says
for him to copy such file onto my hard-drive would be a violation of
copyright.

He's lying.

He says if I ever need to reinstall or use such files, my remedy is to
borrow someone else's installation CD, but then of course use my own product
key for activation. This concerns me, since I don't know precisely what
characteristics the borrowed CD would have to have.

It should concern you. Everything you've said about your interactions
with this vendor is raising red flags. Either the man is completely
dishonest, or he's too stupid to be in business. I strongly suspect the
former.

I'm guessing it would
need to be a straight MS CD, and not someone else's hdwe manufacturer's
version, and not an upgrade version.

You'd need either an unbranded, generic OEM CD, or the laptop
manufacturer's Recovery CD for that specific make and model.

I don't even know what other things to
look out for, nor how to find someone who could supply what I would need, and
of course, I'd like to learn that I don't have to worry about that because
**he owes me a disk**. Or at least some files.

What are the rules? What can I do? Thanks!

Return that laptop immediately, and then take your money to a
legitimate business. (After contacting your local law enforcement and
consumer protection agencies, of course.)


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Guest]

Based on what you've said below, I'd have to conclude that you most
definitely do not have a legitimate license.

Even though the MS.com "is my software legal" process told me it is?

There's no guessing to it. If the seller did not provide you with the
installation media, a Certificate of Authenticity, and the Product Key,
you do not have a valid license.

Well, I have the COA, with the product key on it, just not installation
media or files...

It won't. But it's very presence means that there is an OEM license
assigned to that computer.
To determine what kind of license was used to install WinXP on the
laptop, simply look at the Product ID (on the My Computer > Properties >
General Tab). If it contains the letters "OEM," he used an OEM CD to
perform the installation.

My Computer > Properties > General shows:

Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 2

So... what does this mean?

If you let him get away with it and don't report him to your local law
enforcement agencies, yes.




Yes, he is, if the purchase price of the computer included the
operating system.

I expect you don't mean to suggest that it didn't? I mean, I have an OS,
and he claims it's legit, so yes, it was included in the price, right?

Buy a legitimate license from an honest business.





He's lying.




It should concern you. Everything you've said about your interactions
with this vendor is raising red flags. Either the man is completely
dishonest, or he's too stupid to be in business. I strongly suspect the
former.

(actually, I've been thinking the latter -- he's seemed kind of dense. But
that could be protective cover for the former)

You'd need either an unbranded, generic OEM CD, or the laptop
manufacturer's Recovery CD for that specific make and model.

Would a Mfr's recovery disk even work, after he's done the clean install?

Return that laptop immediately, and then take your money to a
legitimate business. (After contacting your local law enforcement and
consumer protection agencies, of course.)

Can you tell me where to find the MS policies regarding this? I've already
demanded a disk or the files, and he's flat-out refused: "I can't give you
what I don't have, and I can't just copy the files to your computer because
that would be a copyright violation"

I can't demand my money back (or my disk) on the strength of "a helpful guy
in a forum said..."? Is there somewhere online that I can find the re-sale
policy? (I've looked and I've googled, but, well, you know how the MS site
is...) Should I phone MS? Like, their activation-support folks, maybe?

 

[BillW50]

[snip]

Based on what you've said below, I'd have to conclude that you most
definitely do not have a legitimate license.

[snip]

I bought a Gateway MX6124 refurbished from TigerDirect just last August
(2006). It came with MS Works 8 and a trial version of Office 2003. I
couldn't activate it since it said I needed to use the key from MS
Works. But I had no license, key or anything for MS Works 8. Although MS
Works v8 is on the recovery CD.

I called Gateway and they didn't know the answer, so they put me on a
conference call with Microsoft. And Microsoft didn't care that I didn't
get a license from Gateway and Microsoft gave me a key code that would
work with the trial version of Office 2003.

Why do both Microsoft and Gateway operate in this way? Why don't they
even care? And what can we do about getting our licenses for the things
we paid for?

 

[Guest]

You must be given some way to reinstall the OS, either the CD or the files
on a hidden partition is usual.
Go back to the supplier and ask for the disk.

First I asked, then I emailed him twice with links to articles about why
you'd need the reinstallation files or recovery disk, and then I posted about
my experience in my blog and emailed him a link to that. Then he emailed
back, and said no. We talked on the phone, and he said no. He said that's
not how it's done.

Clearly he's not going to give me the disk OR refund my money unless I can
bring him something or someone to back me up. SO now I'm in quest of the
supporting policy. Clues?

 

[Maincat]

First I asked, then I emailed him twice with links to articles about why
you'd need the reinstallation files or recovery disk, and then I posted
about
my experience in my blog and emailed him a link to that. Then he emailed
back, and said no. We talked on the phone, and he said no. He said
that's
not how it's done.

Clearly he's not going to give me the disk OR refund my money unless I can
bring him something or someone to back me up. SO now I'm in quest of the
supporting policy. Clues?

Contact local trading standards office?

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Even though the MS.com "is my software legal" process told me it is?

Even so. It may test as legitimate, but if you cannot repair or
re-install it, you still haven't received a fully legitimate license
from the vendor.

My Computer > Properties > General shows:

Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 2

So... what does this mean?

It means that you have WinXP Pro SP2, which you'd already told us.
What does the Product ID read? The Product *ID* is created during the
installation process and is prominently displayed on the General
Properties tab of the My Computer icon. It is a 20-character number in
the format of 99999-999-99999999-99999. If you have an installation
created by using an OEM CD, the Product ID will be alphanumeric, in the
format of 99999-OEM-9999999-99999.

I expect you don't mean to suggest that it didn't?

On the contrary....

I mean, I have an OS,
and he claims it's legit, so yes, it was included in the price, right?

What does your receipt or invoice say? Does the receipt/invoice
specifically state that an operating system, and/or any other software,
is included in the purchase? If not, you don't have a leg to stand on,
legally.

Would a Mfr's recovery disk even work, after he's done the clean install?

It depends upon the specific recovery method originally provied by the
computer manufacturer. Some rely upon a hidden partition on the hard
drive, while others are entirely CD-based.

Can you tell me where to find the MS policies regarding this?

You main problem lies in having a CoA for an OEM license. That means
that support for the OS lies *entirely* with the computer manufacturer.
Further complicating matters, you've purchased a second-hand machine
from a third party who very probably is not an authorized agent/reseller
for the laptop's manufacturer, so the computer maker isn't going to be
particularly willing to help you, either.

I've already
demanded a disk or the files, and he's flat-out refused: "I can't give you
what I don't have, and I can't just copy the files to your computer because
that would be a copyright violation"

He's lying still. Is he a licensed Microsoft System Builder? If not,
he can't be selling you OEM licenses. If he is, everything he's told
you is in breach of his contract with Microsoft.

Microsoft Authorized Distributors List
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/authdist/default.mspx

I can't demand my money back (or my disk) on the strength of "a helpful guy
in a forum said..."? Is there somewhere online that I can find the re-sale
policy? (I've looked and I've googled, but, well, you know how the MS site
is...) Should I phone MS? Like, their activation-support folks, maybe?

Piracy and Your New PC Do and Don't - Software Piracy Protection
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/YourPC_do.mspx

How to Tell
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/default.mspx

Reporting Piracy
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I bought a Gateway MX6124 refurbished from TigerDirect just last August
(2006). It came with MS Works 8 and a trial version of Office 2003. I
couldn't activate it since it said I needed to use the key from MS
Works. But I had no license, key or anything for MS Works 8. Although MS
Works v8 is on the recovery CD.

I called Gateway and they didn't know the answer, so they put me on a
conference call with Microsoft. And Microsoft didn't care that I didn't
get a license from Gateway and Microsoft gave me a key code that would
work with the trial version of Office 2003.

Why do both Microsoft and Gateway operate in this way? Why don't they
even care?

Why should they? You did no business with either of them. Contact
TigerDirect to get things put right.

And what can we do about getting our licenses for the things
we paid for?

You bought a second-hand computer from a third party. Deal with that
third party to get what you paid for.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[BillW50]

Why should they? You did no business with either of them. Contact
TigerDirect to get things put right.


You bought a second-hand computer from a third party. Deal with that
third party to get what you paid for.

Nonsense! TigerDirect says it isn't their problem. Contact Gateway for
anything missing or broken. As Gateway refurbished them and not
TigerDirect. And Gateway warrantees them and TigerDirect doesn't. And
Gateway admits this is so. So why do you provide false information for
Bruce? What is in for it for you?

 

[GHalleck]

BillW50 wrote:

I bought a Gateway MX6124 refurbished from TigerDirect just last August
(2006). It came with MS Works 8 and a trial version of Office 2003. I
couldn't activate it since it said I needed to use the key from MS
Works. But I had no license, key or anything for MS Works 8. Although MS
Works v8 is on the recovery CD.

I called Gateway and they didn't know the answer, so they put me on a
conference call with Microsoft. And Microsoft didn't care that I didn't
get a license from Gateway and Microsoft gave me a key code that would
work with the trial version of Office 2003.

Why do both Microsoft and Gateway operate in this way? Why don't they
even care? And what can we do about getting our licenses for the things
we paid for?

This is the proverbial hot potato that nobody quite knows how to handle.
This reading of the scenario seems to indicate that TigerDirect was the
responsible party for handling the issue of the missing Windows XP cdrom
or recovery disc...not Gateway nor Microsoft. But there are no clear-cut
directions from Microsoft on how to interpret the legalese within sales
contracts between it, all of the intermediaries involved and the seller.
But it would appear that the goal of getting you going was achieved,
nevertheless.

 

[Maincat]

BillW50 wrote:



This is the proverbial hot potato that nobody quite knows how to handle.
This reading of the scenario seems to indicate that TigerDirect was the
responsible party for handling the issue of the missing Windows XP cdrom
or recovery disc...not Gateway nor Microsoft. But there are no clear-cut
directions from Microsoft on how to interpret the legalese within sales
contracts between it, all of the intermediaries involved and the seller.
But it would appear that the goal of getting you going was achieved,
nevertheless.

I would go for satisfaction of any issue to the person or company that I
gave the money to. It's up to them to sort out any problem. How they do
that is their concern, not the buyer. The buyer is entitled to a CD or
files on a partition. Problem should be sorted out by the seller. Easy.

 

[BillW50]

BillW50 wrote:



This is the proverbial hot potato that nobody quite knows how to
handle. This reading of the scenario seems to indicate that
TigerDirect was the responsible party for handling the issue of the
missing Windows XP cdrom or recovery disc...not Gateway nor
Microsoft. But there are no clear-cut directions from Microsoft on
how to interpret the legalese within sales contracts between it, all
of the intermediaries involved and the seller. But it would appear
that the goal of getting you going was achieved, nevertheless.

I have purchased many computers from TigerDirect over the years. And it
is always the same. The manufacture is responsible for all warrantee and
missing parts. In this case Gateway, which had refurbished this laptop.
It even has a Gateway refurbished serial number on the bottom of the
laptop. And the box it came in says: "Gateway certified refurbished
notebook".

And under support for all MS software, like Windows XP, MS Works 8, MS
Money 2005, etc. it states that the manufacture is responsible (Gateway)
for all support. Which is very common with all OEM versions of MS
software.

So it seems very clear to me. Gateway isn't providing the OEM key or the
license. And Microsoft is okay with this practice. And it isn't just
Gateway either. As I have had the same problem with Toshiba, HP, Dell,
etc. As Microsoft seems to look away if it is a big OEM who pays MS
megabucks anyway.

But it still doesn't make it right! So let's say the software police
stops by and wants to see my license for my MS Works v8 that I don't
even use. I don't have one from Gateway. So now what? Should I buy a
retail version of MS Works v8 so I wouldn't get into trouble? For
software for I don't even use?

 

[Ghostrider]

I have purchased many computers from TigerDirect over the years. And it
is always the same. The manufacture is responsible for all warrantee and
missing parts. In this case Gateway, which had refurbished this laptop.
It even has a Gateway refurbished serial number on the bottom of the
laptop. And the box it came in says: "Gateway certified refurbished
notebook".

And under support for all MS software, like Windows XP, MS Works 8, MS
Money 2005, etc. it states that the manufacture is responsible (Gateway)
for all support. Which is very common with all OEM versions of MS software.

So it seems very clear to me. Gateway isn't providing the OEM key or the
license. And Microsoft is okay with this practice. And it isn't just
Gateway either. As I have had the same problem with Toshiba, HP, Dell,
etc. As Microsoft seems to look away if it is a big OEM who pays MS
megabucks anyway.

But it still doesn't make it right! So let's say the software police
stops by and wants to see my license for my MS Works v8 that I don't
even use. I don't have one from Gateway. So now what? Should I buy a
retail version of MS Works v8 so I wouldn't get into trouble? For
software for I don't even use?

This is where the vagueness exists. Unless TigerDirect is a reseller
for Gateway, then Gateway would be the ultimate responsible party for
providing the Windows re-install disc. Was TigerDirect a designated
Gateway reseller in this instance?

 

[BillW50]

This is where the vagueness exists. Unless TigerDirect is a reseller
for Gateway, then Gateway would be the ultimate responsible party for
providing the Windows re-install disc. Was TigerDirect a designated
Gateway reseller in this instance?

TigerDirect is a reseller for just about anybody. If they can get an OEM
to sell them a massive amount for dirt cheap, they will resell it. Some
of what TigerDirect sells are a gold mine, and some of it is just pure
junk. The problem with TigerDirect, you can not tell until you get it in
your hands.

For example, I purchased 4 HP computers from them that were refurbished
by HP (around 2001 or 2002). And they were a bit different from each
other, although they were supposedly the same model. The model face
plate didn't even match the recovery Windows ME CD. And if you checked
the HP website for both models, it didn't even match either of them
really well. I swear HP had a few spare parts and then slapped them
together and then sold them to TigerDirect to liquidate. Then called
them refurbished.

Some TigerDirect purchases like this Gateway MX6124 went perfectly fine.
Although no license or key from Gateway for MS Works. And the recovery
CD will reinstall MS Works 8 just fine. Although no key number is
required, nor was one included.

There is another problem with this Gateway laptop though. It came with a
recovery CD and the option to make one from the HD. The one of the HD is
just fine as far as I can tell. But Gateway sent me a message that the
recovery CD is in error and probably won't work. I filled out the form
for a new replacement and I haven't heard anything in like 9 months from
Gateway. Does it matter? As I burned a copy from the HD and saved the
ISO copy on another HD just in case.

I personally have a *real* problem from those complainning that the
little guys are not playing fair, when the big boys don't either. If you
are going after anybody, you must go after *all of them* or *none of
them*. Don't play favorites!

 

[Guest]

Even so. It may test as legitimate, but if you cannot repair or
re-install it, you still haven't received a fully legitimate license
from the vendor.




It means that you have WinXP Pro SP2, which you'd already told us.
What does the Product ID read? The Product *ID* is created during the
installation process and is prominently displayed on the General
Properties tab of the My Computer icon. It is a 20-character number in
the format of 99999-999-99999999-99999. If you have an installation
created by using an OEM CD, the Product ID will be alphanumeric, in the
format of 99999-OEM-9999999-99999.

Oh, ah, sorry, I misunderstoof! -- Got it now: it's not OEM; it's 640. So
he's not selling OEM licenses, right? So he's not obligated to give me media?

On the contrary....




What does your receipt or invoice say? Does the receipt/invoice
specifically state that an operating system, and/or any other software,
is included in the purchase? If not, you don't have a leg to stand on,
legally.

Heh. The receipt says "1 - kit 1781"
So that's that?

Maybe *I'm* the pirate, for running software to which I have no license - if
he didn't sell it to me, I don't own it, right? ;^(

 

[Rock]

Oh, ah, sorry, I misunderstoof! -- Got it now: it's not OEM; it's 640. So
he's not selling OEM licenses, right? So he's not obligated to give me
media?


Heh. The receipt says "1 - kit 1781"
So that's that?

Maybe *I'm* the pirate, for running software to which I have no license -
if
he didn't sell it to me, I don't own it, right? ;^(

It goes back to what your agreement was with the seller. For there to be a
legitimate transfer of license, there needs to be included an installation
CD or some other means to restore the system such as a recovery or a
partition, hidden or otherwise, on the hard drive with an image of the drive
as received.

Whether he is in breach of your agreement depends on the terms of that, and
what he agreed to do. If you didn't ask or specify, or he didn't make any
promises about what the sale would include, then I would say you are out of
luck - caveat emptor.

Assert your rights as a buyer through complaint, camping out in his store
until he fixes it, accost every customer that comes in to tell them he is a
scam artist, picket outside the store, go to your local version of the
Better Business Bureau, report a fraudulent sale to the local police, and/or
take him to small claims court. You are the only one who can take control
here, looking for some documentation online or in a newsgroup won't do it.

If you won't assert your rights then either buy another copy of XP or just
find someone who has the same version, is it generic OEM, and Home or Pro,
then make a copy of their CD, and be done with it.

 

[Guest]

It goes back to what your agreement was with the seller. For there to be a
legitimate transfer of license, there needs to be included an installation
CD or some other means to restore the system such as a recovery or a
partition, hidden or otherwise, on the hard drive with an image of the drive
as received.

Whether he is in breach of your agreement depends on the terms of that, and
what he agreed to do. If you didn't ask or specify, or he didn't make any
promises about what the sale would include, then I would say you are out of
luck - caveat emptor.

Assert your rights as a buyer through complaint, camping out in his store
until he fixes it, accost every customer that comes in to tell them he is a
scam artist, picket outside the store, go to your local version of the
Better Business Bureau, report a fraudulent sale to the local police, and/or
take him to small claims court. You are the only one who can take control
here, looking for some documentation online or in a newsgroup won't do it.

I'd be prepared to gradually escalate to making a fuss of that sort if
necessary, once I was clear that I was in the right. But it isn't that I am.
He showed and sold me a working laptop, but I didn't ask if the license to
the OS was part of the deal.

Now either I'm running an OS to which he did not sell me the license OR he
sold me the license but did not give me media for it.

Unless I can find a statement of policy from MS that re-sale of the license
to software entails sale of the ability to repair or restore that software, I
can't even say I'm entitled to it if he *did* sell me the license.

Acchh.

If you won't assert your rights then either buy another copy of XP or just
find someone who has the same version, is it generic OEM, and Home or Pro,
then make a copy of their CD, and be done with it.

I still don't know what I have! OEM sticker (that doesn't say OEM on it),
non-oem PID. Compaq laptop, with and HPQ sticker.

I dunno who refurbished it, either. Compaq? The guy? Someone else?
Another thing I didn't think to ask.

Thanks, all for your patience with me, and for trying to help me sort it out!

 

[Poprivet]

"tmd0309" wrote

It goes back to what your agreement was with the seller. For there
to be a legitimate transfer of license, there needs to be included an
installation CD or some other means to restore the system such as a
recovery or a partition, hidden or otherwise, on the hard drive with
an image of the drive as received.

Actually, it's simple. The "seller" is required to provide a means of
returning the system to its shipped status, regardless of who the seller is.
That includes you if you should sell the machine.
Also part of that requirement is the necessity to provide a readable form
of instructions detialing how to do the "reset" or whatever one wishes to
all it.

Whether he is in breach of your agreement depends on the terms of
that, and what he agreed to do. If you didn't ask or specify, or he
didn't make any promises about what the sale would include, then I
would say you are out of luck - caveat emptor.

Agreed. On the other hand, if he sold a computer with XP on it, and did not
give the buyer the required seller's information, he has intentionally and
fraudulently pirated software to the buyer. That makes the seller a pirate
and the buyer an unwitting party to the piracy.

Assert your rights as a buyer through complaint, camping out in his
store until he fixes it, accost every customer that comes in to tell
them he is a scam artist, picket outside the store, go to your local
version of the Better Business Bureau, report a fraudulent sale to
the local police, and/or take him to small claims court. You are the
only one who can take control here, looking for some documentation
online or in a newsgroup won't do it.

Mostly good advice from BBB on, but the preceding suggestions can place one
in a liabilty situation that could be hard (and expensive) to handle. If he
wins, the OP could end up responsible for the loss of sales created, plus
punitive damages for impuning a reputation. Be very careful of liability.
BBB, Chambers of Commerce, Newspaper letter to the editor with clear
OPINIONS, etc.

I see NO reason for you to be telling this person that a newsgroup "won't do
it". He didn't ASK the ng to do it. He asked for assistance, which up to
that point, you were providing. It's silly to admonish people for things
they haven't done and worse yet to drift off topic like t hat without any
indication of doing so.

If you won't assert your rights then either buy another copy of XP or
just find someone who has the same version, is it generic OEM, and
Home or Pro, then make a copy of their CD, and be done with it.

Rock, I'm not meaning to attack you personally though I'm sure you see it
that way. I AM however knee-jerking to the several posts that do this sort
of thing continuously. A good post consists of nothing but facts and
resource references and little else. Being condescending is not one of the
"else" things.

Regards,

Pop`

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

Now either I'm running an OS to which he did not sell me the license OR he
sold me the license but did not give me media for it.

1) Buy an external hard drive
2) Buy a good backup program (Acronis True Image is my choice)
3) Make frequent backups of both your drive and your data directories

If you do the above, you'll not need an installation disc if problems
are incurred.