New harddisks don't boot when old harddisks are disconnected.

[Skybuck Flying]

Hello,

I have discovered a very serious issue with my DreamPC from 2006 (updated
along the years because of hardware failures) for which I will seek help.

(Computer has 4 harddisks).

The problem is:

When the old harddisks are disconnected the new harddisk don't boot.

Ofcourse I tried changing boot order in bios, or tried the boot option menu
but all of this didn't help/work which indicates a more serious issue.

I suspect the problem is with how Windows 7 installed itself and how it
arranged the boot program. I suspect the boot program is on an old harddisk
instead of the new one.

Windows 7 was installed on the new harddisk, but I suspect Windows 7 did not
install the boot program on the new harddisk, which would be a pretty stupid
thing for Windows to do ! So this could be a very serious issue for Windows
7. But enough speculating there could also be other causes which I will sum
up here so I know what to investigate:

Possible causes:

1. Windows 7 boot program installed on old harddisk instead of new one.

2. ASRock motherboard has issue with booting 2 terrabyte harddisk.

3. ASRock motherboard sata port 1 and 2 only work for booting.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

At first I thought it was the hardware, but others have noticed this weird
behaviour as well:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110212001019AAn4laM

So it now seems Windows 7 is really stupid and dumbed down to the point
where it leads to these kinds of problems and cluelessness.

Just like the guys in that thread I have no idea where the boot program is
actually stored since the installation program of Windows 7 never showed it
clearly as far as I can remember.

I can also remember thinking to myself: "Where the **** are all my drives ?"
when I was installing Windows 7 and "where did this C:" drive come from ?
"Why is it showing my new drive as C: ?" Apperently Windows 7 does some
renaming after wards ?!? All very weird... Indeed my old drivers are called
"D:" and "E:" and my new drives are called: "C:" and "F:".
Very strange indeed !

My conclusion can only be:

That Windows 7 has become a dumbed-down-piece-of-shit.

It's going the way of the Mac where clueless users have to visit a Mac-store
to get some help with their "magic" operating system and probably return
home without any help at all lol

For me no sorry guys, I don't have time to go to a store... So I will not be
using Windows when it comes to that

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Oh by the way I forgot to mention a possible solution for this problem,
which was also mentioned on the board/web site:

1. Find the Windows 7 installation CD/DVD (?) or maybe it needs a special
CD/DVD but try installation CD/DVD

2. Hope that the CD/DVD survived gravity and temperature fluctuations and is
still working.

3. Hope that the CD/DVD rom drive is still working.

4. Hope there are no scratches on the CD/DVD

5. Disconnect or remove the old harddisks, but keep the new harddisks
connected.

6. Boot from CD/DVD via bios tweek or bios boot menu.

7. Let Windows 7 CD/DVD boot process "repair" the installation on the new
harddisks.

8. Hope for the best.

Fingers crossed.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Well,

I have learned to expect the unexpected by now.

And it's not big surprise to me that it didn't work.

The repair program on the Windows 7 CD/DVD was strangely enough not capable
of detecting the two 2 terrabytes drives.

This does raise the interesting question, how Windows 7 was capable of
installing itself on these harddrives ?!?

Therefore I am also starting to suspect that it might be a motherboard/bios
issue ?!?

Also since the volume corruption incident the floppy drive acts weird during
startup, it might be because I told microsoft security essentials to ignore
the drive A: but it seems to do the opposite, it might also be a motherboard
issue.

To me this situation is totally unacceptable.

If windows 7 cannot boot from a 2 terrabyte drive or be so dumb as to
include a boot program, then this warrants switching to an operating system
which can.

For now I shall with hold my final judgement until I figure out if it's a
Windows 7/Software problem or a hardware problem.

But for now things are not looking good for Microsoft, my list of issues
which I don't like:

1. Still no *.* file masks in windows explorer after 15 years since ms-dos.

2. Windows Live slow and behaving badly.

3. Virus scanner obnoxious, though feeling protected is a bit nice, however
false warnings <- bad too.

4. Shutdown slow because of updates, updates are always risky.

5. Java does not work properly in IE9 might require java updates from
untrustworthy and no defunct SUN. Ah to hell with java I ll cut
microsoft some slack on this one

6. Cannot tell which Internet Explorer session is which in Taskbar, it's
just a gigant list.

7. Windows keys should probably be automatically disabled when starting
games, though it might be a bit tricky when to figure this out, so I ll cut
them some slack on this one, not really a serious issue but ok.

8. All kinds of things missue in the gui of windows explorer, the search is
also a mess.

9. Weird boot/drive behaviour with multiple harddisks.

10. Annoying taskbar not showing all processes by default have to click
special button which is annoying.

11. Incrediably bad ASCII support in Windows Live Mail, incrediably bad
identing copy & paste.

12. Mail and usenet seperated from each other in Windows Live Mail also
kinda annoying.

13. No decent import for rules or mail in Windows Live Mail, some stuff
lost, or fubbared.

14. Slow operation of windows live mail sometimes.

15. Annoying restart behaviour of crashed IE9 sometimes, though sometimes
recovery is nice.

16. Perhaps host game servers is bad on windows 7, not sure, could be
graphics card issue too.

17. nvidia graphics tray icon not automatically showing menu when clicking
once, must click twice/double why ??? weird.

18. Haven't even tried service pack 1 sounds bad according to others.

19. Windows 8 seems to become a HUGE SPY OPERATING SYSTEM, it wants to know
everything about you.

and now as a finally:

20. Windows 7 does not boot properly from terrabytes drives ?!?!?!?!? And
can't fix it ?!?!?!?!? (Though not yet sure if it's a windows or hardware
problem)

I am also getting doubts about the PC in general after seeing floppy drive
miss behave and stupid boot going to fast, and F11 to select boot menu works
bad and now this strange 2TB problem.

Just seen another one:

21. Windows Live Mail scrolls bad when pressing page up/page down, amazingly
bad.

22. Windows Live Mail behaves bad when trying to click into the text window,
again amazingly bad.

23. Even more amazingly: The scrollbars of the main windows look different
than the scrollbars of a message window ?!?! WOW ! Nice find there
Skybuck ! LOL =D

Totally lolling.

24. Question which remains unaswered: what caused volume corruption ? Was it
a break in into the system late at night, some weird event messages, or was
it a Microsoft employee breaking in ? Or was it a badly gone update from
Microsoft, or just a bug in their file system ?!? Or quality of drive ? or
micro vibration ?!? Very strange.


I have plenty of things not to like about Windows 7 and especially it's GUI
and Mail Client, it sux.

Feeling more protected does feel kinda nice, and feeling more secure/updated
feels kinda nice, but now a critical issue has arrived:

NO MORE BOOT
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UNACCEPTABLE
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why Windows 7 did not install a boot program on the the same drive were it
was installed is BEYOND ME ?!?!

Was this to support some strange obscure boot manager or VMWARE situation
?!? Screw that/**** that... let them modify it.

I want my drive/windows to BOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!

AND NOW IT DOESNT
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT MEANS YOU NOT WORTHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even worse:

Now I have to go spent an INCREDIBLE HUGE AMMOUNT OF TIME TO FIND A SAFE FIX
!!! AND RISK MY SYSTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNACCEPTABLE
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was supposed to never open my system ever again !!!

But now I have to unplug,replug,unplug,replug stuff !

I have to REBOOT REBOOT REBOOT to try stuff !

And WORST OF ALL: RISK MY VALUABLE DATA ON MY DISKS
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNACCEPTABLE
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can go stuff your WINDOWS UP YOUR ASS
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

Windows 8 and UEFI will be worse.

And UEFI will standardize the BIOS to the point where it will be possible
for a generic virus to infect a flash BIOS.

That should be a fertile new source of hallucinations for Skybuck. Some of
them could be real.

 

[Rich Grise]

I have discovered a very serious issue with my DreamPC from 2006 (updated
along the years because of hardware failures) for which I will seek help.

(Computer has 4 harddisks).

The problem is:

When the old harddisks are disconnected the new harddisk don't boot.

Did you format them bootable, and actually write a boot sector and OS to
them?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[JeffM]

Windows 8 and UEFI will be worse.

UEFI is DOA.
If the European regulators don't kill it,
the supply chain will ignore it. It's a profit killer.
http://tinyurl.com/UEFIcomparedToVista
news:13067372.113.1316647249625.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbr29

 

[Rich Grise]

Windows 8 and UEFI will be worse.

I can't understand why MICRO$~1 doesn't jump on Linux and write
some familiar 'doze eye candy and sell it.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Nobody > (Revisited)]

UEFI is DOA.
If the European regulators don't kill it,
the supply chain will ignore it. It's a profit killer.
http://tinyurl.com/UEFIcomparedToVista
news:13067372.113.1316647249625.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbr29

What are you smoking?
That article has nothing to do with UEFI.

There are Linux gods and then there are fanbois... and then there are
the idiot fanbois...

--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum

 

[Nobody > (Revisited)]

Possible, we know it WILL be tried.

It will also allow Microsoft to twist the arms of PC vendors so that
they ship machines that will only boot Windows.

John

Cites please?
Otherwise you are just another idiot fanboi parrot.


--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum

 

[Flasherly]

Possible causes:

1. Windows 7 boot program installed on old harddisk instead of new one.

2. ASRock motherboard has issue with booting 2 terrabyte harddisk.

3. ASRock motherboard sata port 1 and 2 only work for booting.

XP - I don't do cross-posts (nor does google) as a rule since I'm too
lazy to dick with free univ. news servers

Believe (been awhile could be wrong) I installed a fresh XP on another
system - ASUS Intel Duron 2.4Ghz, via a SATA. I'll have to crack the
case and look at the three HDs in it to verify they're all SATA. I DO
KNOW I had no issues with XP install-disc and drive controllers. Went
smooth as silk (a media-only/player computer ever since).

I'm now getting a variant of your problem with a Gigabyte's BIOS.
(Totally different XP [pre-]install from another system, binary sector-
to-sector transfer, though). Point is, when I *then* swap an
"EVERYTHING-working-perfectly" XP *off* the IDE channel, into a
different HD on the SATA controller (again, binary to 1T Samsung F2
Black Ed.), XP craps (cyan blue-screen XP logo, but never reaches the
login stage).

Possible inferences:

scratch - 2T limitation (if you got it working once on a boot, it
boots then).

scratch - I've never heard of SATA being channel-limited to boot
options

Though there may be some truth to what I have heard "stories" about M$
stipulating computer hobbyist re-buy windows everytime they build
their computers - lets see, do the math. . .compulsive builders of
machines, at up to a machine every few month, yep, time it takes to
figure the machine quirks, figure they'd need at least to buy a couple-
thousand shares M$ stock to pay to play for licensing rights. Maybe
sometime after the current meltdown recession. If W7 is already
advanced to that stage, can't wait to see what W8 hold in store.

 

[mike]

Hello,

I have discovered a very serious issue with my DreamPC from 2006
(updated along the years because of hardware failures) for which I will
seek help.

(Computer has 4 harddisks).

The problem is:

When the old harddisks are disconnected the new harddisk don't boot.

Ofcourse I tried changing boot order in bios, or tried the boot option
menu but all of this didn't help/work which indicates a more serious issue.

I suspect the problem is with how Windows 7 installed itself and how it
arranged the boot program. I suspect the boot program is on an old
harddisk instead of the new one.

Windows 7 was installed on the new harddisk, but I suspect Windows 7 did
not install the boot program on the new harddisk, which would be a
pretty stupid thing for Windows to do ! So this could be a very serious
issue for Windows 7. But enough speculating there could also be other
causes which I will sum up here so I know what to investigate:

Possible causes:

1. Windows 7 boot program installed on old harddisk instead of new one.

2. ASRock motherboard has issue with booting 2 terrabyte harddisk.

3. ASRock motherboard sata port 1 and 2 only work for booting.

Bye,
Skybuck.

Executive summary: don't remove fixed hard disks after installing an OS.

I have no idea how the new stuff works, but your old stuff probably
lets the bios assign logical drives according to the physical attachment
of the physical drives on the various connectors.
The OS starts with this info, then does it's own magic.
When you add/remove anything that changes the BIOS mapping or the OS
mapping,
you can't expect the system to boot.
Sometimes it's just "not found" Other times, the system will boot to the
point that it accesses its OS mapping then pulls the rug out from
under itself trying to access a non-existent or different physical medium.

Bottom line, don't remove fixed hard disks after installing an OS.

If you want removable drives, use usb or networked drives.

Back in the days of win95, there was a boot manager that could remap
the physical/logical relationships between hard drives. Was very useful
for multi-booting with drives common to both. Sadly, that no longer works.
It's also possible to add/remove a hard drive if you put it on the right
connector relative to the boot drive, but I quit trying to do that at
XP. SATA adds another layer of complexity. I've never been able to get
XP to boot from a PATA drive when there's a SATA drive installed/active
in the system. Boot order be damned, it always boots from the SATA
drive. I have to disable the SATA in the bios to get PATA to boot.
YMMV.

To fix your system, here's what I'd try.
Put back all the drives.
This assumes they're all PATA drives...won't work with a mixture of
pata/sata...

There's also a BIG issue about how you installed win7.
If you let win7 partition and format your hard drive,
it will have an invisible partition at the beginning.
That messes up the mapping to the point that I've never
been able to get Acronis to restore its own backup.
If you have the hidden partition, I think you're screwed.
Using GPARTED to partition/format the drive eliminates
this problem. It also makes some features of win7 not work,
something about encrypted usb drives???
But if your backup was from a drive with this partition,
the following won't work. If you installed win7 on a partition
other than the first available, it probably won't work.

Boot it and do an image backup of the boot partition.
The free versions of Acronis available from disk vendors works.
If you don't have the right vendor drive, you can use a usb drive
of the right vendor to get past the vendor check.

Back up ALL the drives while you're at it.

Reconfigure the hardware drives the way you want 'em.
Boot a live linux CD or the GPARTED live cd and use
GPARTED to partition/format your drives the way you want 'em.
Don't forget to set the boot flag.

Restore the backup of the boot drive to the new bootable partition.
Depending on what you had on the other partitions and how you installed it,
you may be able to just copy the data to the new drive with the correct
drive letter. If the data doesn't care what drive letter it's on, don't
worry about it.

Again, the presence of the hidden partition can mess this all up.
It might not work. But if your alternative is to reinstall from scratch,
this might be worth a try.

If you have to reinstall from scratch, I still recommend using
gparted and eliminating that extra partition. Many won't agree...
YMMV

 

[Flasherly]

Executive summary: don't remove fixed hard disks after installing an OS.

Wrong-o. You've officially been tagged & designated as
contraproductive to logical assessment and within a state and limits
of stated objectives to empiricism.

Already did it & works. Perfectly perfectamento. Trx'd an OS from
one computer to another. Totally different computers, two different
model# PATA hard drives. First never saw it coming: "Hello, second
HD." Second: "Hello, first HD, datum established. A-OK, blast off OS,
god speed."

Trick1: why abovesaid congeniality is only at PATA level and not
subsequent to SATA, given SATA is provisionally supported within prime/
perfect PATA upon establishment of MB functions, all support drivers
[again, inclusive of SATA]. FWIW: MB-provided support SATA drivers
*are* required, per MB specs via provisional floppy drivers, to
install the OS;- since it doesn't, however, per se say (read the fine
print and KISS off) they can't be used to repair a SATA install *were*
those drivers removed, the inference then is one to find and identify
OS offender(s), preventing their usage, differently than had an
initial OS install, at the SATA level, been without incident and
successful. The latter aftersaid is but one logically of stated
preposition to qualify (I haven't gotten around to test sticking an
adapter for a Compact Flash formatted card on the IDE chain for a
"fanless" case system scenario, or similarly converting down a SATA
into a IDE boot devices, with the appropriate $4 Singapore adapter,
for as well backtesting).

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Just for your information, these drivers are all sata drivers.

So 4 sata drivers.

I also do not see a reason yet why so much complexity would be needed.

So far people have mentioned a "simple" looking solution which involves
executing a single command from windows console which is available from the
windows installation cd/dvd.

Something about setting back a boot sector and boot record and master boot
record etc...

However I am not just going to execute any command, until I am sure what it
does, I don't want to overwrite and damage anything on windows.

I hope that resizing partitions is not needed, I hope that complex stuff is
not needed.

I am starting to fear the worst though

First I have to look into why Windows 7 installation CD/DVD does not
recgonize the harddisks which is weird.

The BIOS seems to recgonize the harddisks just fine.

So my suspicion about it being a Windows 7 issue seems more than warranted !

This is very bad of Microsoft me thinks, very bad.

They have accured a big minus point in my mind. Yes I am keeping score you
know.. =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Well you electronics people are probably also to blame for this, and not
supporting 64 bit lines, and instead being cheap skates.

Anyway hitachi seems to be a bitch, no drivers available for my drives:
deskstar 7K3000:

http://www.hitachigst.com/internal-drives/desktop/deskstar/deskstar-7k3000

It's starting to seem like another "Deathstar" LOL, but this time because of
no driver support in windows.

Since when do disks need drivers anyway gjez...

But this is giving me an idea.

I probably changed some bios setting to speed-up my drives.

I see somebody else mention it, since other people have problems getting
windows to recgonize this drive as well.

The idea is to change something in the bios so that the drive becomes
recgonizeable by windows !

If I can get to work than maybe windows repair disk will be able to fix
itself ?!?

It's also strange that repair tool claims somewhat of a success while it
could not see the drive ?!?

^ Again very weird from Microsoft.

Tut tut tut... people there talking a walk with Ballmer pretending stuff
works, while it does not !

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

25. VHD's reattaching themselfes to different drive letters.

26. Installation program for Windows 7 is flawed, console program sees my
drives just fine by not installation program.m

There are other things which I dont't like about Windows 7 it's easy to
forget when I remember I ll post more perhaps

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Well,

I have discovered some interesting things.

The console program on the installation CD/DVD of Windows 7 sees the drives
just fine.

Conclusion:

The installation program of Windows 7 is simply flawed, it's some kind of
software issue to me it seems.

I shall now continue and try the console command fix, which I shall lookup
on google and write down on a piece of paper so I can try it when my system
reboots.

And then I shall report back.

I want this problem fix as soon as possible before the old boot drive dies.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

First of all I am not going to follow any stupid advice from people on
boards... like a stupid bitch telling somebody to delete BCD entries... and
then the guy does it and ofcourse it fails and then the bitch says: "oops
now you have to do a new fresh install" ! LOL I smelled that one coming a
mile away !

And I am also not going to try the "fix master boot record" bullshit.

Noooooo...

Instead I am going to find my own solution, and I already found one which
might be the easiest and most safest of all:

Simply use "disk management tool" in windows 7 and click the harddisk which
is supposed to be the boot disk and right click menu and select: "make
active".

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Mark-a-partition-as-active

Tada !

I am now going to try this... this should work.

So the problem could be as simple as selecting which disk to boot from
that's all.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Ok,

I learned something interesting things:

1. Making a disk/volume/partition/whatever active which does not contain a
"boot manager" is the stupidste fokking thing I could have ever done,
especially since I am dealing with the biggest retards in the world
Microsoft:

This one little command made my computer unusuable and led to the by now
famous windows vista/windows seven problem:

"bootmgr is missing"

2. Google sux for old systems.

I assembled my PentiumIII 450 mhz and brought it to it's grave(?)final
resting place(?).

Instead I used my old pentium 166 mhz with windows 98 and IE5...

Surprise surprise, IE5 crashes because of stupid google quick typing java
script bullshit.

Fortunately Microsoft's search engine: Bing saved the day and IE5 does work
with Bing.

Microsoft probably got lucky there or maybe they tested it... +1 for
Microsoft -1 for Google.

3. I tried a couple of things and nothing worked.

4. Finally I read about "diskpart"

It's a command from the console which can be used to reactive the proper
partition so I can at least go back into windows 7 and figure out how to
solve this problem.

It went something like this:

Step 1: diskpart
Step 2: list volumes
Step 3: select volume X
Step 4: list partitions
Step 5: select partition 1
Step 6: active

Then I had to reboot computer and go to the bios boot menu and select 1 out
of 4 harddisks. Because of disconnecting and reconnecting this menu changed.

So I decided to try all 4. Fortunately the third harddisk seemed to boot
back into windows from disk.

So I reconfigured the boot menu so now at least I can boot back into
windows.

5. Knoppix 3.1 beta doesn't have decent internet support, or at least it
doesn't detect the onboard motherboard ethernet chips. So it's useless and
old.

I must get a nice operating system which works from CD/DVD for emergencies
like this so at least I can browse the internet properly for solutions.

I got lucky my Pentium 166 even worked and wasn't immediatly infected, so
far it's still running.

6. The problem remains unsolved for now.

Microsoft gets -1.000.000 points for creating this situation.

What a bad mess.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt]

Windows 8 and UEFI will be worse.

John

You are both absolute idiots.