New Computer - What am Letting Myself In For

[Soojer]

Dear All,

Following my previous post to find a "Big Blue" style system for my home use I have been convinced that building my own is not only the cheaper option (At the end of the day, I am a Scot) but it is also far more rewarding and will increase my knowledge of computers. So thanks for all the advice especially Muck for the "Build Your Own" Website link.

Therefore I am gonna do it, however I have quickly realised that there is a mammoth amount of basic info I am not up to speed with (ATA or ATX? What is RAID? etc). As you can tell I really am a beginner. I am reading as much as I can get my hands on but it will take time.

In the mean time I will buy the things that are not consistently being upgraded every month, namely the case and the PSU.

Here is my criteria.

Case - I am more concerned with equipment doing the job than if it looks good, but if it does, thats a bonus. Size is not a worry (no innuendo intended), what is a concern though is noise - I want this sucker quiet and not sound like a petrol driven lawnmower.

PSU & Cooling - I have added cooling into this as both will affect the noise levels. The PSU needs to be big enough that I will have no power worries for a significant time and this also applies to the cooling. I am only trying to build my own system first but knowing me I will probably get into "overclocking" quite soon afterwards. I therefore need to plan for the future.

Summary - - Quiet, Loads of power for future upgrades and cold enough to cope with high spec components. Oh yes, if it looks the biz - Yippee.

Any thoughts/advice/links/info or even piss takes will be appreciated.

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: If a man does something and there isn't a woman there to see, is he still wrong?

 

[floppybootstomp]

I've built a fair few systems now and out of all the cases I've used the Chieftec/Antec range would seem to me to meet all your criteria.

They look great, have plenty of room to build and come equipped on average with space for 4 or 5 80mm fans.

I'm running 3 machines and my Antec SX1030 case is by far the easiest to keep things quiet & cool.

Fans - the Antec/Chieftec case usually comes with two stock exhaust fans, they're quiet and will do the job. Fans to be added, considering db levels here, could be the Pabst or Panaflo lo noise, both are good and don't hurt the ear drums.

Oddly enough, my most expensive and best looking case is not all that good for cooling - a Lian Li black PC61. It comes with 4 fans but none of them are particularly efficient; the two front intakes only cool the hard drives and there's only one exhaust fan even though there's room for two. A good looking extremely well built case, but crap for cooling, imo.

I have replaced the exhaust with a Pabst hi-flo fan, but it didn't improve things much.

Power supplies - if you're looking for power to spare, go for at least 400W. The Antec Truepower series are really really good. There are super quiet PSU's on the market, but they're quite expensive.

Those are my thoughts for now, if I think of anything else, I'll be back

 

[1nteger]

Glad to hear you've decided on the sensible route to home computing

Floppy's made some good points there (tho I won't hear a word said against lian-Li cases!! )

One thing I would consider at the outset is that a system is more than the sum of it's parts...in other words, no one component will make it work well as a computer - it's the way all the parts work together that matters. Also, I wouldn't go all out to choose the case first, but rather, build it from the inside out...choose the case last.
Once you know how much you can afford for the entire system...

1. Decide what you want to use the PC for and what you might want to use it for in the next year or two.
2. Get some idea of what software and peripherals you'll need to use to do those things.
3. Choose the fastest CPU you can get without paying an extra 20% cash for an extra 5% speed. (I'd go for AMD rather than Intel)
4. Get a heatsink and fan that is properly rated to cool faster CPU's than the one you buy.
5. Get a minimum of 512Mb DDR RAM (two identical - but not necessarily 'matched' sticks - so u can use Dual Channel mobo's)
6. Get a hard disk that is 7200 rpm and has an 8Mb cache - either Maxtor or Western Digital are probably the most reliable. (Unless you really need masses of storage space, 2 smaller SATA disks in a RAID might be better than a single larger one...tho some might disagree)
7. Choose a vid card that will handle the games that you are likely to want to be playing in the next 12 months...not just the ones that are out now, and nothing with the letters 'MX' in the name.
8. Get a mobo that supports Serial ATA and everything above, plus at least 4 USB2 hubs, Firewire, 8x AGP etc, with at least 4 additional PCI slots.
9. Choose the optical drives you want...CD/DVD (ROM/RW etc)

...then, when you have decided on all the stuff you want to run, choose a Power Supply that can support it, and make sure you select the correct cables (SATA are a lot smaller than flat or rounded IDE ones).

Finally...choose a case.

(Disclaimer: 1nteger was pissed at the time of writing ):crazy:

 

[Soojer]

In response to 1ntegers wise words (I didn't suspect he was pissed until the disclamer)

1. Decide what you want to use the PC for and what you might want to use it for in the next year or two. The PC will be used for Office applications, Video Editing, Gaming & Internet.

2. Get some idea of what software and peripherals you'll need to use to do those things. Have got already.

3. Choose the fastest CPU you can get without paying an extra 20% cash for an extra 5% speed. (I'd go for AMD rather than Intel) I also prefer AMD (My last 2 PCs are). However, not wishing to appear flash but cost is not really a concern but I do want value for money.

4. Get a heatsink and fan that is properly rated to cool faster CPU's than the one you buy. This is an area that I don't have a "scooby" on. Any steers will be greatly appreciated.

5. Get a minimum of 512Mb DDR RAM (two identical - but not necessarily 'matched' sticks - so u can use Dual Channel mobo's) Planning to get an ASUS A7N8X Deluxe & a matched pair of Corsair 512Mb DDR 467MHz.

6. Get a hard disk that is 7200 rpm and has an 8Mb cache - either Maxtor or Western Digital are probably the most reliable. (Unless you really need masses of storage space, 2 smaller SATA disks in a RAID might be better than a single larger one...tho some might disagree) Thinking about getting a SATA RAID device To run the programs (Don't know much about this yet) and a 200 GB Drive to save my stuff on. IS THIS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE & if it is does it make sense.

7. Choose a vid card that will handle the games that you are likely to want to be playing in the next 12 months...not just the ones that are out now, and nothing with the letters 'MX' in the name. I am lucky enough to be friends with one of the directors of EA Games so high spec games come in thick and fast. From the articles I have read the Radeon 9800 seems to be an option. IS IT?

8. Get a mobo that supports Serial ATA and everything above, plus at least 4 USB2 hubs, Firewire, 8x AGP etc, with at least 4 additional PCI slots. See Above.


9. Choose the optical drives you want...CD/DVD (ROM/RW etc) I will be going for a DVD Rom & a DVD rewriter but which ones are still up in the air. Hopefully this will accomodate all my CD, DVD requirements. Help.

 

[muckshifter]

... nice use of colour

That kid (at my age I can call everybody kid) has a head on his shoulders even when inebriated.

I'll pick up on a couple of points ...

1. AMD CPUs
You will find most good suppliers are quickly changing how you buy. AMD have/are changing their RMA policy to the point that if you are not using one of their 'registered' HSF then you will not get it replaced. However, if not an overclocker this should not present a problem.

Buy an AMD CPU with an approved HSF


Corsair 512Mb DDR 467MHz
Have had 'customers' having problems with this memory & the said MB

... and a 200 GB Drive to save my stuff on. IS THIS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE & if it is does it make sense.
Yes and probably as you will be playing with video editing. However as you'll be getting a RAID MB you will get the best both. (more reading )

As for DVDs, have a look at;
Pioneer DVR-A06 (Dual Writer) 4x DVD+R / 2.4x DVD+RW / 4x DVD-R / 2x DVD-RW / 16x CD-R / 10X CD-RW ... or ... Sony DRU510A (Dual Writer +/-) 4x DVD+R / 4x DVD+RW / 4x DVD-R / 2x DVD-RW / 24x CD-R / 16X CD-RW
And fit an ordinary CDROM drive.

 

[1nteger]

On CPU's...AMD's retail packs are often very little more than an OEM chip, and you get their heatsink and fan. (I just got a free AMD t-shirt with mine too!). The heatsink may do a good job, but even if you change to a another one, AMD will never be able to tell.

RAM...I would order two sticks of the same brand and rating at the same time, but I wouldn't pay the extra for 'TwinX' - so called 'matched pairs'. Why? because they cost a hell of a lot more, but if one of the sticks fails, Corsair won't exchange both...they just send a replacement for the single dimm. How can they do that if they are supposed to be 'matched'?

Heatsink and Fan...You can buy one for about £5, but you get what you pay for. Best heatsink is the Thermalright SLK800 (SLK900 won't fit the A7N8X mobo easily). It's costs £45 excluding delivery and doesn't come with a fan. Only place I've seen them on the web in Uk is Overclockers.co.uk.

But...for around £20 (far more sensible price) you can get good Coolermaster heatsinks with fans. I hear good things about the Coolermaster Aero7 (get the 7+)...some say it cools to within a few degrees C of the SLK800. The aero is so called because of the unusual fan, the design of which is supposed to create a more efficient airflow because it doesn't create a 'dead zone' in the centre like most standard fans do. It also comes with a fan speed controller and the gizmos to fit it in a front 3.5" bay or a spare PCI slot at the rear of the case.

DVD - You mention DVD ROM and a writer - DVD Writers are also DVD ROMs anyway, of course, and I think many offer CD/RW as well...you could invest in a top notch combo. Having said that, having 2 optical drives is always a good idea for backup.

SATA RAID - Serial ATA is the method by which the drives are connected and the data is transferred, whilst RAID is more to do with the way you configure two or more hard drives.

Two hard drives in a RAID 0 (I think...Mucks?) work like one big and much faster HDD.

Two drives in RAID 1 (I might have these the wrong way round) basically mirror each other, so if one fails you constantly have a perfect duplicate drive as backup.

Raid 2 - this is 4 drives: 2 in RAID 0, speeding each other up, and 2 also in RAID 0, but mirroring the first 2 (i.e 2 drives working very fast backed up perfectly by 2 more).

I don't know much about raid yet, but I'm gonna get into it soon myself.

 

[floppybootstomp]

(tho I won't hear a word said against lian-Li cases!! )

I speaks it as I sees it Tis true what I said, beautiful case, lousy cooling without any modding.

Soojer: Looks like good choices so far. For video editing you need lots of space for capturing raw video and lots of memory. 200Gb & 1Gb RAM should be fine.

A Primary RAID setup for OS and 200Gb for storage sounds good.

Radeon 9800 atm is excellent gaming choice card.

And 1nteger's correct, imo, AVOID any vid card with 'MX' in it's number, unless Half Life is the only game you'll be playing

 

[muckshifter]

The heatsink may do a good job, but even if you change to a another one, AMD will never be able to tell.

On the contrary it's the HSFs serial number that AMD are taking notice of. :spin:

As most of us do not buy direct from AMD, I believe the minimum order is 1,000, it should not really effect us ... just be aware that if you buy the Retail AMD CPU, which includes the HSF, don't be tempted to RMA it without the fan.

I'll see if I can find the link on AMDs site again.

We do still have our ‘statutory rights’ as consumers in place.

 

[1nteger]

Originally posted by muckshifter

On the contrary it's the HSFs serial number that AMD are taking notice of. :spin:

...sorry, Mucks, i'm a bit confused....

I'm suggesting that if you buy a retail AMD CPU which comes with a bog standard hsf, but decide to put that aside and fit a different hsf to the cpu...if anything goes wrong with the cpu, then how can AMD tell that you haven't used the supplied hsf?

Or did I misunderstand your original point? (I have been known to) :spin:

 

[muckshifter]

apologies to Soojer for going OT here

They are not, just don't send one back without it.