Need hidden headings in TOC

[Guest]

I'm trying to create a double-purpose document. I've done it before in
previous versions, but it doesn't seem to be working in Word 2003 -- at least
not in this document.

I put all of the text for both a user guide and a developer guide in a
single document. Then I hid all of the text that applies only to the
developer guide.

It used to be that with Show/Hide on, the TOC included hidden headings and
numbered the pages accordingly, and with Show/Hide off, the TOC excluded
hidden headings and numbered the pages accordingly. It worked great!

Does that not work anymore? If not, are there any solutions other than
saving a temporary version of the file and unhiding all of the text? Seems
such a clumsy approach to what used to be a slick method.

I do know from personal experience that if a user doesn't understand what's
happening and sets Show/Hide correctly before updating the TOC, it can cause
undesired results. However, MS could put in one of those messages with the
"Don't show this again" check box in that shows up in documents with hidden
text in them, explains the issue, and asks how the user wants to address it.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Herb Tyson [MVP]]

I've never seen it work (never tried it before just now), but I can confirm
that it doesn't work in Word 2003 or Word 2007.

 

[Guest]

Thank you, Herb. I know it worked at one time, because I've used it in years
past. It was a slick way to keep two documents synchronized. The last time I
used it was for a combination Instructor/Student manual.

I can understand why they changed it, because the average user wouldn't have
understood the nuances and would have ended up with unexpected results in
their TOC. I know, because I had that problem till I figured out what was
going on.

Be nice if they could make it an available option for those of us who need
it and know how to use it.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Henk57]

Hi Sherlock:
The Show/Hide term put me (and likely Herb too) off guard. I believe
it can be done, but the Show/Hide button is used for showing/hiding
paragraph marks etc.
Anyway, what you can do is to create parallel styles, with the fonts
checked as hiddden. So create a style "NormalH" identical to "Normal"
but for the checked "hidden" in the Font setting. Do that for every
style for ewhich you need hidden texts (Heading 1H, tables, lists,
etc).
It's then a matter of assigning the appropriate styles to your headings
and texts. Also, in your TOC set up you need to be sure that the
Heading Styles "H" are also assigned to the right level
(Insert/Reference/Index and Tables/Table of Contents and then click
Options). Obviously, you can give yr H styles a different appearance,
as with any style setting (e.g., a different font colour).

Once done, you can "show/hide" the texts by checking/clearing the
"Hidden text" attribute in Tools/Options/View. Likewise, you can print
or not by checking/clearing "Hidden text" in Tools/Options/Print.
As far as I could test (XP / Word 2003) it worked, but I didnt test it
at length.

HTH, GL,
Henk

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I believe you'd need to change the "Hidden text" setting on the Print tab of
Page Layout as well as on the View tab if you wanted to be able to print the
TOC with Hidden text included.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Guest]

Thank you. Yes, you are right, I had to do that when I was able to update the
TOC to include hidden text in earlier versions, too.

Thanks.

 

[Guest]

Sorry 'bout that! Yes, I meant turn Hidden text on/off in Tools, Options,
View, Formatting Marks, but I typically keep that set to All, and routinely
use the Show/Hide button to show/hide hidden text as well, that I got sloppy.

To restate, in earlier versions, I could mark text, including Headings, as
hidden; then select or clear Hidden text in Tools, Options, View and also in
Print, Options. Then I could update the TOC and print the document either
with or without the hidden text, depending on the state of those two
settings. The TOC either included or excluded the marked text and adjusted
the page numbers accordingly. That allowed me to easily maintain two separate
documents in one file.

I'm not quite sure how what you suggest would work any differently than what
I was doing originally unless I go in and change the attributes of my
parallel hidden styles to "not hidden" before printing the larger document.

You stated:

Once [creating parallel styles is] done, you can "show/hide" the texts by
checking/clearing the
"Hidden text" attribute in Tools/Options/View. Likewise, you can print
or not by checking/clearing "Hidden text" in Tools/Options/Print.
As far as I could test (XP / Word 2003) it worked, but I didnt test it
at length.

That's exactly what I was doing, except without the extra step of the
parallel styles. But if it works that way for any text, it should work that
way for all text, right? Did your TOC update correctly to include the hidden
styles after you selected Tools, Options, View, Hidden and Print, Options,
Hidden?

Or did you actually change the style attribute for each style from hidden to
not hidden first? If you only selected/cleared the view/print hidden
attribute (Tools, Options and Print, Options) and were able to update your
TOC, you're doing exactly what I want to do and used to do, without needed
the extra step of creating parallel styles. If you're editing the styles
first, then yes, I see where that would be an option, although rather
time-consuming unless I write a macro to edit all the parallel styles.

If my old way is working for you, the question then becomes why isn't it
working for me? I'm running Office 2003 Professional SP1 on Windows XP
Professional.

Thank you.

 

[Henk57]

Sherlock:
From yr answer I get the impression that you think I am re-assignin
the style everytime I need to switch modes. That's not what
intended. I think I misued the word "parallel". What I mean is to us
two styles that only differ in the checked "hidden" mode. Maybe it i
more clear if I say Normal_Use and Normal_Development for the bod
text, where the latter is hidden. Of course, also other style option
(font colour or anything) can be chosen, but I said only to differ i
"hidden" as this is the essence of my suggestion. Basically, you get
toggle operation by simply checking/clearing "hidden" i
Tools/Options/View (Print).
I can confirm that the TOC showed/hid after updating depending on th
toggle state. Why your "manual" operation isnt working I dont know.
prefer the Style route as a change is always consistent and cannot b
misinterpreted by Word. Also, to change my mind later to modify th
development style (eg to change the text color) - and not the Use styl
- I can do it in one snap. Maybe it matters to select the pilcro
(paragraph marker) when defining the right setting?

Sorry 'bout that! Yes, I meant turn Hidden text on/off in Tools
Options,
View, Formatting Marks, but I typically keep that set to All, an
routinely
use the Show/Hide button to show/hide hidden text as well, that I go
sloppy.

To restate, in earlier versions, I could mark text, including Headings
as
hidden; then select or clear Hidden text in Tools, Options, View an
also in
Print, Options. Then I could update the TOC and print the documen
either
with or without the hidden text, depending on the state of those two
settings. The TOC either included or excluded the marked text an
adjusted
the page numbers accordingly. That allowed me to easily maintain tw
separate
documents in one file.

I'm not quite sure how what you suggest would work any differently tha
what
I was doing originally unless I go in and change the attributes of my
parallel hidden styles to "not hidden" before printing the large
document.

You stated:-
Once [creating parallel styles is] done, you can "show/hide" the text
by
checking/clearing the
"Hidden text" attribute in Tools/Options/View. Likewise, you ca
print
or not by checking/clearing "Hidden text" in Tools/Options/Print.
As far as I could test (XP / Word 2003) it worked, but I didnt tes
it
at length.-

That's exactly what I was doing, except without the extra step of the
parallel styles. But if it works that way for any text, it should wor
that
way for all text, right? Did your TOC update correctly to include th
hidden
styles after you selected Tools, Options, View, Hidden and Print
Options,
Hidden?

Or did you actually change the style attribute for each style fro
hidden to
not hidden first? If you only selected/cleared the view/print hidden
attribute (Tools, Options and Print, Options) and were able to updat
your
TOC, you're doing exactly what I want to do and used to do, withou
needed
the extra step of creating parallel styles. If you're editing th
styles
first, then yes, I see where that would be an option, although rather
time-consuming unless I write a macro to edit all the parallel styles.

If my old way is working for you, the question then becomes why isn'
it
working for me? I'm running Office 2003 Professional SP1 on Windows X

Professional.

Thank you.

:
-

Hi Sherlock:
The Show/Hide term put me (and likely Herb too) off guard. I believe
it can be done, but the Show/Hide button is used for showing/hiding
paragraph marks etc.
Anyway, what you can do is to create parallel styles, with the fonts
checked as hiddden. So create a style "NormalH" identical t
"Normal"
but for the checked "hidden" in the Font setting. Do that for every
style for ewhich you need hidden texts (Heading 1H, tables, lists,
etc).
It's then a matter of assigning the appropriate styles to your
headings
and texts. Also, in your TOC set up you need to be sure that the
Heading Styles "H" are also assigned to the right level
(Insert/Reference/Index and Tables/Table of Contents and then click
Options). Obviously, you can give yr H styles a different
appearance,
as with any style setting (e.g., a different font colour).

Once done, you can "show/hide" the texts by checking/clearing the
"Hidden text" attribute in Tools/Options/View. Likewise, you can
print
or not by checking/clearing "Hidden text" in Tools/Options/Print.
As far as I could test (XP / Word 2003) it worked, but I didnt test
it
at length.

HTH, GL,
Henk

Sherlock;2193525 Wrote: -
Thank you, Herb. I know it worked at one time, because I've used it
in
years
past. It was a slick way to keep two documents synchronized. The
last
time I
used it was for a combination Instructor/Student manual.

I can understand why they changed it, because the average user
wouldn't
have
understood the nuances and would have ended up with unexpected
results
in
their TOC. I know, because I had that problem till I figured out
what
was
going on.

Be nice if they could make it an available option for those of us
who
need
it and know how to use it.

Thanks for your help.


:
-
I've never seen it work (never tried it before just now), but I can
confirm
that it doesn't work in Word 2003 or Word 2007.


--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Author of the Word 2007 Bible
Blog: http://word2007bible.herbtyson.com
Web: http://www.herbtyson.com


"Sherlock" (e-mail address removed) wrote in message
I'm trying to create a double-purpose document. I've done it before
in
previous versions, but it doesn't seem to be working in Word 2003 --
at
least
not in this document.

I put all of the text for both a user guide and a developer guide in
a
single document. Then I hid all of the text that applies only to the
developer guide.

It used to be that with Show/Hide on, the TOC included hidden
headings and
numbered the pages accordingly, and with Show/Hide off, the TOC
excluded
hidden headings and numbered the pages accordingly. It worked great!

Does that not work anymore? If not, are there any solutions other
than
saving a temporary version of the file and unhiding all of the text?
Seems
such a clumsy approach to what used to be a slick method.

I do know from personal experience that if a user doesn't understand

what's
happening and sets Show/Hide correctly before updating the TOC, it
can
cause
undesired results. However, MS could put in one of those messages
with the
"Don't show this again" check box in that shows up in documents with

hidden
text in them, explains the issue, and asks how the user wants to
address
it.

Thanks for your help. -

 

[Herb Tyson [MVP]]

This is rather odd. I had tried that (enabling hidden in both printing and
viewing) before posting my own response. Oddly enough... it still doesn't
work here in Word 2003 or Word 2007.

So... you're saying that with hidden text set to view and to print, a
heading formatted as hidden gets included in the ToC?

It doesn't happen here... and I tried starting Word in safe mode as well as
using the /a switch, then applying the settings to view and print hidden
text afresh... on two different computers (one running XP, the other running
Vista).

{toc}

First Heading (not hidden)

Second Heading (hidden)

When I refresh the { toc } field, only First Heading shows up, no matter
what settings I use. If I remove the hidden formatting applied to the 2nd
heading, then refresh the TOC field, only then does it show up in the TOC.

I even tried in Print Preview, and the hidden heading still doesn't show.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Author of the Word 2007 Bible
Blog: http://word2007bible.herbtyson.com
Web: http://www.herbtyson.com

 

[Guest]

I'm saying when hidden text is set to view and print, I WANT it to show up in
the ToC (and I really think it used to in earlier versions), but it doesn't
seem to anymore.

If I've intentionally set hidden text to view AND print, it would be logical
that I'd want it to appear in the ToC as well.

You're right, though. It doesn't happen now.

 

[Herb Tyson [MVP]]

I misunderstood. I thought you were telling Suzanne that once you'd enabled
hidden in Print options that your problem was solved. Your problem remains
unsolved in Word 2003 (and I can assure that it's still a problem in 2007).

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Author of the Word 2007 Bible
Blog: http://word2007bible.herbtyson.com
Web: http://www.herbtyson.com

 

[Guest]

Thank you for verifying.

Do you agree that if hidden text is set to both view and print, it makes
sense to have any hidden headings (and altered pagination) show up in the
ToC? Are there overriding reasons I'm not thinking of that make leaving them
out a better choice?

If I'm on the right track, will MS see this? I have to wonder if they
changed it accidentally or intentionally. (I'm almost positive I used to do
this, but the fact that it doesn't work now does make me wonder!!)

I guess for now I'll just save a temporary doc and change all the hidden
text to unhidden (Ctrl+A and clear Hidden in Format, Font) when I'm ready to
print the full version.

Thanks to both of you for all your help!

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Word picks up direct font formatting in the TOC, but not style formatting.
If the headings had the Hidden format applied as direct formatting, I'd
expect them to retain that formatting in the TOC. But I'm not sure whether
I'd expect heading styles formatted as Hidden, whether the formatting was
direct or derived from the style, to show up in the TOC in the first place.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Guest]

If Word picks up direct font formatting in the TOC, as you say, and I
directly format some heading styles as hidden, but then specifically set
hidden text to be both viewed and printed, the TOC would still hide it? Well
.... obviously it does. But should it?

Rhetorical question at this point, I suppose. Except that it would be nice
if the gang at MS would cogitate on it a bit.

Thanks.

 

[Henk57]

Guys:
First, at home I am running 2002, at work 2003. At least at home I cld
make it work what Sherlock wants albeit the "toggle" doesn't work indeed
- sorry. Anyway, I hope you can reproduce the following.
Key is to assign a different Heading style to a different Heading
level.
Let's assume Heading 1-4 and Heading 6-9 are used, the latter group is
defined as hidden. Now, I assigned Heading x to TOC x, and defined TOC
1 identical as TOC 6, 2 as 7 etc. This I did so in the TOC u cannot
tell the difference, but for testing purposes this is probably not
needed. Define the appropriate levels being shown in the TOC.
If I clear in Heading 6-9 the hidden font attribute, it shows in the
TOC, if I check it again it disappears from the TOC upon updating.

 

[Herb Tyson [MVP]]

I agree with you on this one. Basically, when hidden text is set to display
and print, then it should be treated like any other text. It seems
inconsistent and arbitrary for something that's displayed as a Heading and
which prints to be sequestered from the table of contents.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Author of the Word 2007 Bible
Blog: http://word2007bible.herbtyson.com
Web: http://www.herbtyson.com

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the affirmation, Herb.

I think my approach of altering a temp file is probably as simple as any at
this point.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for all your efforts! Unfortunately, we already use all but about
two of the heading styles in our company templates, so my temporary file
method will have to suffice for this project. However, I'll give this a try
just to see if it works on our system configuration.

Thanks.