MSconfig & Services.msc questions

[Brian A.]

I notice that in MSconfig under Services there are several items

(Microsoft) that are checked on the left but say they are stopped on the
right. Without checking each one in Services to see if they are on
Automatic, Manual or Disabled would it be accurate to assume that it
doesn't matter if MSconfig settings and Services "match"? Does either
override the other? I rarely hear of people discussing these 2 programs
together but it looks like they are quite intertwined. And I wonder why
more Services don't show up in MSconfig? And is there a better choice
than Services to control what's running in the background? (Using XP
Pro, SP3 with latest updates.)

If a service is disabled it will not appear in msconfig > services tab.
Services that are reported as stopped in msconfig may be set as automatic or
manual in the Services console. Not all services that are set to automatic
or manual are always running, services run when a request is made for them,
otherwise they sit quietly listening for the call to run.

Again, as I have always stated and stand firm by:
One should only use msconfig as a tool for troubleshooting, it should not be
used as a permanent tool to disable any application, process and/or service.

Once an application, process and/or service has been determined as the
possible cause of any issue, that application, process and/or service should
be disabled by other means. Ways to disable and/or stop any application,
process or service will vary depending on the type of application, process
or service.

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Richard Z]

I notice that in MSconfig under Services there are several items (Microsoft)
that are checked on the left but say they are stopped on the right. Without
checking each one in Services to see if they are on Automatic, Manual or
Disabled would it be accurate to assume that it doesn't matter if MSconfig
settings and Services "match"? Does either override the other? I rarely
hear of people discussing these 2 programs together but it looks like they
are quite intertwined. And I wonder why more Services don't show up in
MSconfig? And is there a better choice than Services to control what's
running in the background? (Using XP Pro, SP3 with latest updates.)

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Which items show as Stopped?

If you examine these same items in Services, which of them are configured to
start Manually?

 

[Brian A.]

I notice that in MSconfig under Services there are several items

I thought that if something is set to automatic it should be running all
the time. Yet I do remember in Services noting that is not always the
case. As I check now only 1 is not running: Computer Browser. All
others set to Automatic have started.


I see. So I should do everything possible in Services or perhaps a better
program. What about stuff that doesn't appear in Services? Like many
installed programs. They often don't appear in Services yet often appear
in MSconfig's Startup section. If the program is running unnecessarily
in the background I want to kill it naturally. If there is no option in
the Preferences/Options of that program from preventing it starting
automatically when Windows boots up, what should I do besides using
MSconfig?

And does anybody know of another program that is better than MSconfig?
Could it be called something like Tweak or Tweakui?

Although there are services that can be disabled you need to be sure that
they can be before doing so. A search on the net using the term "xp
services" will get you a to of hits for pages that explain each service and
if it possibly can be disabled without causing a problem.

As for another way to deal with running process:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Richard Z]

If a service is disabled it will not appear in msconfig > services tab.
Services that are reported as stopped in msconfig may be set as automatic
or manual in the Services console. Not all services that are set to
automatic or manual are always running, services run when a request is
made for them, otherwise they sit quietly listening for the call to run.

I thought that if something is set to automatic it should be running all the
time. Yet I do remember in Services noting that is not always the case. As
I check now only 1 is not running: Computer Browser. All others set to
Automatic have started.

Again, as I have always stated and stand firm by:
One should only use msconfig as a tool for troubleshooting, it should not
be used as a permanent tool to disable any application, process and/or
service.

Once an application, process and/or service has been determined as the
possible cause of any issue, that application, process and/or service
should be disabled by other means. Ways to disable and/or stop any
application, process or service will vary depending on the type of
application, process or service.

I see. So I should do everything possible in Services or perhaps a better
program. What about stuff that doesn't appear in Services? Like many
installed programs. They often don't appear in Services yet often appear in
MSconfig's Startup section. If the program is running unnecessarily in the
background I want to kill it naturally. If there is no option in the
Preferences/Options of that program from preventing it starting
automatically when Windows boots up, what should I do besides using
MSconfig?

And does anybody know of another program that is better than MSconfig?
Could it be called something like Tweak or Tweakui?

 

[Richard Z]

If a service is disabled it will not appear in msconfig > services tab.
Services that are reported as stopped in msconfig may be set as automatic
or manual in the Services console. Not all services that are set to
automatic or manual are always running, services run when a request is
made for them, otherwise they sit quietly listening for the call to run.

I thought that if something is set to automatic it should be running all the
time. Yet I do remember in Services noting that is not always the case. As
I check now only 1 is not running: Computer Browser. All others set to
Automatic have started.

Again, as I have always stated and stand firm by:
One should only use msconfig as a tool for troubleshooting, it should not
be used as a permanent tool to disable any application, process and/or
service.

Once an application, process and/or service has been determined as the
possible cause of any issue, that application, process and/or service
should be disabled by other means. Ways to disable and/or stop any
application, process or service will vary depending on the type of
application, process or service.

I see. So I should do everything possible in Services or perhaps a better
program. What about stuff that doesn't appear in Services? Like many
installed programs. They often don't appear in Services yet often appear in
MSconfig's Startup section. If the program is running unnecessarily in the
background I want to kill it naturally. If there is no option in the
Preferences/Options of that program from preventing it starting
automatically when Windows boots up, what should I do besides using
MSconfig?

And does anybody know of another program that is better than MSconfig?
Could it be called something like Tweak or Tweakui?

 

[Gerry]

Richard

In general terms you will gain little from changing the default settings
of Services. A lot of system errors arise from users changing the
default StartUp type because they fail to appreciate the complexity of
the interdependent relationship between services. You will find changing
applications from loading on start up to loading on demand a far more
productive way to achieve better system performance.

Replies to your specific questions inline.

I thought that if something is set to automatic it should be running
all the time. Yet I do remember in Services noting that is not
always the case. As I check now only 1 is not running: Computer
Browser. All others set to Automatic have started.

Is your computer networked? Computer Browser "maintains an updated list
of computers on the network and supplies this list to computers
designated as browsers. If this service is stopped, this list will not
be updated or maintained. If this service is disabled, any services that
explicitly depend on it will fail to start.". Do you have any services
dependent on Computer Browser? My computer is a Workstation, as many
home computers are. Computer Browser is set to Automatic and is not
running. My computer is error free and works as it should.

I see. So I should do everything possible in Services or perhaps a
better program. What about stuff that doesn't appear in Services?
Like many installed programs. They often don't appear in Services
yet often appear in MSconfig's Startup section. If the program is
running unnecessarily in the background I want to kill it naturally.
If there is no option in the Preferences/Options of that program from
preventing it starting automatically when Windows boots up, what
should I do besides using MSconfig?

And does anybody know of another program that is better than MSconfig?
Could it be called something like Tweak or Tweakui?

To identify what loads when you boot use Autoruns (freeware from
Microsoft).
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/ProcessesAndThreads/Autoruns.mspx

With Autoruns you can uncheck an item, which disables it from
starting,or you can right click an item and then delete it. If you
uncheck you can recheck to re-enable the item. It is a much safer
approach than editing the Registry and better than using msconfig..
Another useful feature of the programme is that you can right click an
item and select Search Online to get information about the item
selected.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gerry]

Richard

Further replies inline

I thought that was exactly what I was doing by changing a Service to
Manual or Disabled from Automatic. It changes applications from
loading on start up. Aren't we talking about the same thing? But I
have read and experienced that some Services will not start on Manual
when prodded. They need to be set to Automatic. Guess it's a trial
and error thing.

You are still not understanding that Services and Applications are not
one and the same. A Service facitates communication between the
operating system and
Applications. Most but not all Services are provided by Microsoft as
part of the operating system. You have discovered Black Viper. Use the
settings you find there. It's not a trial and error thing!

Nope. The computer is usually connected to a router (for the hardware
firewall) though.


I wonder why, if set on Automatic, it has not started in both mine
and your situations? It's the only one of my "Automatic" Startup
Types that has not started.

Simple. The service is not required!

Let the link run to the end!

Leave the setting as Automatic.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[John John - MVP]

Richard

Further replies inline



You are still not understanding that Services and Applications are not
one and the same. A Service facitates communication between the
operating system and
Applications. Most but not all Services are provided by Microsoft as
part of the operating system. You have discovered Black Viper. Use the
settings you find there. It's not a trial and error thing!


Simple. The service is not required!

If the service is set to Automatic Start it should start whether you
need it or not, manual services will start when required (on demand) but
the Automatic ones will always run. Look in the Event Viewer for errors
related to the service. The Computer Browser service relies on the
Workstation and Server services, most likely it isn't starting because
the Server service isn't running. On a Stand alone machine this service
is not required and setting it to Manual start would be the way to go.
Unless you intend to share files or printers with others the Server
service should be disabled, or at the very least set to manual.

John

 

[Brian A.]

If the service is set to Automatic Start it should start whether you
need it or not, manual services will start when required (on demand) but
the Automatic ones will always run. Look in the Event Viewer for errors
related to the service. The Computer Browser service relies on the
Workstation and Server services, most likely it isn't starting because
the Server service isn't running. On a Stand alone machine this service
is not required and setting it to Manual start would be the way to go.
Unless you intend to share files or printers with others the Server
service should be disabled, or at the very least set to manual.

John

Granted it is not typical, yet some Services set to Automatic can/do also
stop running automatically when they are no longer needed.

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Richard Z]

In general terms you will gain little from changing the default settings

of Services. A lot of system errors arise from users changing the default
StartUp type because they fail to appreciate the complexity of the
interdependent relationship between services. You will find changing
applications from loading on start up to loading on demand a far more
productive way to achieve better system performance.

I thought that was exactly what I was doing by changing a Service to Manual
or Disabled from Automatic. It changes applications from loading on start
up. Aren't we talking about the same thing? But I have read and
experienced that some Services will not start on Manual when prodded. They
need to be set to Automatic. Guess it's a trial and error thing.

Is your computer networked?

Nope. The computer is usually connected to a router (for the hardware
firewall) though.

Computer Browser "maintains an updated list of computers on the network
and supplies this list to computers designated as browsers. If this
service is stopped, this list will not be updated or maintained. If this
service is disabled, any services that explicitly depend on it will fail
to start.". Do you have any services dependent on Computer Browser? My
computer is a Workstation, as many home computers are. Computer Browser is
set to Automatic and is not running. My computer is error free and works
as it should.

I wonder why, if set on Automatic, it has not started in both mine and your
situations? It's the only one of my "Automatic" Startup Types that has not
started.

To identify what loads when you boot use Autoruns (freeware from
Microsoft).
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/ProcessesAndThreads/Autoruns.mspx

Yes - downloaded it already. Looks very comprehensive.

With Autoruns you can uncheck an item, which disables it from
starting,or you can right click an item and then delete it. If you
uncheck you can recheck to re-enable the item. It is a much safer
approach than editing the Registry and better than using msconfig..
Another useful feature of the programme is that you can right click an
item and select Search Online to get information about the item
selected. Hope this helps.

Some great tips. Thanks a bunch. I bet this will help a lot of people too.
You cover some important points often overlooked. So many people upgrade
their CPU and ram not realizing they are carrying around so much dead weight
by having many programs running in the background dragging their speed down.
I do find though that I need to check Services and MSconfig (perhaps
Autoruns after I learn it) to see if any recently installed program has
elected to start on its own. So often they have needless stuff running in
the background. Sure it takes a little longer to start the program if its
set to Manual, but it's a small price to pay for a nimble and efficient
computer without the costs of exotic CPU's and huge amounts of the latest
DDR3 ram.

 

[Richard Z]

I notice that in MSconfig under Services there are several items

Which items show as Stopped? If you examine these same items in Services,
which of them are configured to start Manually?

There is a way of exporting the Services settings but I don't know how.
Something about saving in a mode that displays tables I think. Basically I
followed Black Viper's guide to XP 3 SP3 from here. They seem to have a
good reputation on the net.
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm

 

[Gerry]

John

Brian has I think got it right!

I started the Computer Browser service. It started, ran briefly and
stopped. Three information reports are logged in Event Viewer. However,
I got a message, not recorded in Event Viewer, as below.

"The Computer Browser service on Local Computer started and then
stopped. Some services stop automatically if they have no work to do,
for example the Performance Logs and Alert Service."


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[John John - MVP]

Yes, but if the service is set to automatically start there is usually
an event logged if the service stops (or if it doesn't start at all).
And not all services stop if they have nothing to do, I had thought the
Browser service to always run but from what you report it seems that if
no LAN is present it automatically stops.

John

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

There is a way of exporting the Services settings but I don't know how.

<snip>

Why do you quote my post if you're not going to answer my questions?

To check these Services:

Start | Run | (type) services.msc | OK

 

[Gerry]

John

For a normal boot this is all that is logged!

Event Type: Information
Event Source: Service Control Manager
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7036
Date: 29/06/2009
Time: 07:59:23
User: N/A
Computer: GERALD-51E521F8
Description:
The Computer Browser service entered the stopped state.

BTW bother the Server and Workstation services do not stop. They run all
the time in the background. They are not recorded in the Event Viewer
logs. Both use this svchost image -C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe -k
netsvcs

--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[John John - MVP]

With many, if not most services, if it starts properly there isn't
anything recorded in the event log. I'm a bit surprised that the
Browser service stops so readily when the Server service is running. I
haven't really seen this happening but then all my machines are on LANs,
or the service has usually always been set to manual if the machine is a
stand alone.

John

 

[Brian A.]

This article on the browser service is a bit more detailed than what is
mentioned in the services management console. Perhaps this will help to
better understand why the browser service stops if it is not needed.

Description of the Microsoft Computer Browser Service
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001

I also use Acronis Enterprise Server for network backups and it has a few
services it uses set at automatic which also stop when not needed anymore.
The "Remote Agent" on the client machines stops until the "Group Server" on
the remote server machine sends the client a request. The "Group Server" on
the remote server stops until it gets a request from any of the client
machines "Backup Server Service" service.

As I stated previously, it's not typical but services can/do stop when not
needed anymore. I guess we could look at these out-of-the-norm services as
"on demand dependent".

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375