Microsoft Sucks!

[Kerry Brown]

No. The point is that Gate/Microsoft didn't "innovate" anything when it
came to DOS. He/it modify some code that was already out there, and did
it without permission.

Tis the height of arrogance that they now what everyone to get permission
to use the copies of code it sells to people through third parties!

But that is what makes MS what it is today, the most hated major
corporation on the face of the planet.

That wasn't my point at all. It was merely a joke. I can think of very few
microcomputer programs that were innovative. Possibly VisiCalc? Even that
may not be. It may be that I am not aware of it's predecessor. Maybe Babbage
had an original idea. Then again maybe he ripped it off from Leonardo. Most
"innovations" are built on what came before.

Kerry

 

[Leythos]

It was a joke PIP was the copy command in CP/M. I was wondering how many
people reading this newsgroup had actually used CP/M, MS-DOS, and PC-DOS and
get the reference

I did, but I wanted to stay out of your guys fun.

 

[kurttrail]

That wasn't my point at all.

I didn't say it was.

It was merely a joke. I can think of
very few microcomputer programs that were innovative. Possibly
VisiCalc? Even that may not be. It may be that I am not aware of it's
predecessor. Maybe Babbage had an original idea. Then again maybe he
ripped it off from Leonardo. Most "innovations" are built on what
came before.

LOL! Changing a some lines of an already existing code is not
innovation. Taking the ideas and conceptualizations of others, and
creating a product out of that, is innovation. Understand the
difference?

But what does this nitpicking have to do with the conclusion of my post,
how MS didn't ask for permission to MODIFY somebody else's code, yet now
wants everyone to get their permission just to USE the copy of software
that it sells to people through third parties?!

Though the OP is a total idiot, Microsoft does suck! Totally
hypocritical organization. And is justly the most hated corporation in
the world today! More hated than the Catholic Church is for protecting
their child-molesting preists!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Kerry Brown]

I did, but I wanted to stay out of your guys fun.

Sunday morning debates over coffee are always enjoyable

Kerry

 

[Leythos]

I did, but I wanted to stay out of your guys fun.

I can remember when I got a Z80 that had 2 x 16 bit registers and was
really excited about it making math easier. Heck, I can remember when I
got my first assembler/linker package and I didn't have to code in Hex,
whoo hoo!

 

[Kerry Brown]

I can remember when I got a Z80 that had 2 x 16 bit registers and was
really excited about it making math easier. Heck, I can remember when I
got my first assembler/linker package and I didn't have to code in Hex,
whoo hoo!

I remember my first experience with a "high level" assembly language
compiler for the 6502. It was light years from coding in Hex. I wonder how
many of today's programs are influenced by the poor programming practices
caused early home pc's with BASIC as the operating system. Using Pascal on
an Apple II was the biggest revelation I ever had to do with programming.
All of a sudden the idea of structure made sense. In the context of this
thread BASIC was Microsoft's first commercial program and yes they ripped it
off from somewhere else, I believe also using stolen time on a DEC.

Kerry

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

No. The point is that Gate/Microsoft didn't "innovate" anything
when it came to DOS.

As usual, you don't have a point.

He/it modify some code that was already out there, and did it without
permission.

OK, if that's what you want to believe...

But that is what makes MS what it is today, the most hated major
corporation on the face of the planet.

Ohhhh... Walmart will be REALLY disappointed to hear that!

And I'm STILL ignoring you but I'm sure you haven't figured that out
either...

 

[kurttrail]

As usual, you don't have a point.

LOL! Letting the sewergas get to your head again, Norton?!

I had a couple of points in that post.

1.) MS didn't innovate anything with their original version of DOS.
2.) It is the height of hypocrisy for MS, a company that started out
changing a few lines of code without the permission, to expect all it's
customers to get permission just to USE the copy of software that was
sold to them by a previous third party owners of that copy!

OK, if that's what you want to believe...

I have yet to see one shread of evidence that shows otherwise. Would
you care to show us some, Norton? Naw, I didn't think so! All sewer
gas, and nothing of any substance.

Ohhhh... Walmart will be REALLY disappointed to hear that!

I doubt it. And WalMart isn't a monopoly of anything worldwide, like MS
is a monopoly with the PC desktop.

And I'm STILL ignoring you but I'm sure you haven't figured that out
either...

LOL! You are just IGNORant, but I'm sure you will never figure that out
either, Norton!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

1.) MS didn't innovate anything with their original version of DOS.

Sure they did - the formed an innovative marketing plan, even though it
had been done with other products, and turned a simple OS into one of
the largest installed OS's in the world.

There have been few people that have done as much through business
planning as Bill has.

 

[kurttrail]

Sure they did - the formed an innovative marketing plan, even though
it had been done with other products, and turned a simple OS into one
of the largest installed OS's in the world.

There have been few people that have done as much through business
planning as Bill has.

--

LOL! They built a better business plan, they didn't innovate anything
when it came to code!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

LOL! They built a better business plan, they didn't innovate anything
when it came to code!

If you follow the history, Bill did write code, but he was also smart
enough to see that a different product would do what he wanted and
bought it. While the initial DOS was crude, it was enhanced by the MS
team and such, it's not like MS didn't add anything to DOS as it moved
forward.

You can't say that MS didn't have any innovative ideas - they were able
to market the product, get it running on more computers than any other
OS, and turn the company into one of the richest in the world.

 

[kurttrail]

If you follow the history, Bill did write code,

Notice you didn't say Bill did write THE code. He added, and modified
some of the existing code! Like I do with my microscum page. MS has
people doing the html, I download it and modify to get my microscum
website looking like MS's, and I add some of my own too.

but he was also smart
enough to see that a different product would do what he wanted and
bought it. While the initial DOS was crude, it was enhanced by the MS
team and such, it's not like MS didn't add anything to DOS as it moved
forward.

I didn't say they didn't. I just said that the original DOS code wasn't
innovation.

"MS didn't innovate anything with their original version of DOS."

You can't say that MS didn't have any innovative ideas - they were
able to market the product, get it running on more computers than any
other OS, and turn the company into one of the richest in the world.

They did that with their original DOS code?

You are talking about everything since then. MS has been best as a
marketer, not an innovator. MS is a known and proven patent and
copyright infringer. When they "innovate" it is usually through
infringement and/or buying the innovation of others.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

MS has been best as a
marketer, not an innovator. MS is a known and proven patent and
copyright infringer. When they "innovate" it is usually through
infringement and/or buying the innovation of others.

But you can say that about Ford, Honda, GM, Mozilla, Apple, HP, etc...
The only real innovation I've seen is an Idea.

 

[kurttrail]

But you can say that about Ford, Honda, GM, Mozilla, Apple, HP, etc...

No I couldn't. They didn't take somebody else's car, change the
fenders, and resell it as their own product.

And that is what MS did with their original DOS offering. They bought a
copy from a third party, not the author of the code, and they changed
the fenders, and sold it as their own, WITHOUT the permission of the
author of the original code to modify and resell his code!

It is totally hysterical! And now, decades later, MS has the
unmitigated gall to get people to ask MS for permission just to USE the
copy of software that was LEGALLY sold to them!

The only real innovation I've seen is an Idea.

You can see an idea? What do they look like in their physical
manifestation!

LOL! And MS's innovation wasn't in the idea of DOS, but in the
marketing of it as their own product. If they tried the same thing
today, it would be called PIRACY! ;-)

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Kerry Brown]

I keep trying to reply to this post but it never shows up. Censorship?

Kerry

 

[Leythos]

No I couldn't. They didn't take somebody else's car, change the
fenders, and resell it as their own product.

If you think that the car was the single idea/invention of one person
that was not copied by many others, then you really are blinded by your
hate for MS.

And that is what MS did with their original DOS offering. They bought a
copy from a third party, not the author of the code, and they changed
the fenders, and sold it as their own, WITHOUT the permission of the
author of the original code to modify and resell his code!

The same with all the car vendors, they keep taking an idea, a product
created by others, improving it, making it better (most times) and
reselling it - all without credit to the guy that invented the engine.

It is totally hysterical! And now, decades later, MS has the
unmitigated gall to get people to ask MS for permission just to USE the
copy of software that was LEGALLY sold to them!

No one is asked to use Windows, they pick it on their own.

You can see an idea? What do they look like in their physical
manifestation!

I can't believe you're so closed minded that you can't see an idea,
heck, most people don't even have to do drugs to see an idea.

LOL! And MS's innovation wasn't in the idea of DOS, but in the
marketing of it as their own product. If they tried the same thing
today, it would be called PIRACY! ;-)

Sorry, others are still doing it - you need to get out an purchase other
vendors software, MS is not alone in that licensing method.

 

[Leythos]

I keep trying to reply to this post but it never shows up. Censorship?

I think it depends on what type of wording you put in the post, and also
from where you post.

Don't use a web interface to post, use a real Usenet service.

 

[Kerry Brown]

I think it depends on what type of wording you put in the post, and also
from where you post.

Don't use a web interface to post, use a real Usenet service.

Posting to msnews.microsoft.com with OE. It's always worked in the past. It
was a very innocuous post replying to Kurt's post. Didn't use any swear
words or flame anyone.

Kerry

 

[Kerry Brown]

I didn't say it was.

Re-reading the thread again it sounds to me like that's what you said. I
guess it's all in the interpetation

LOL! Changing a some lines of an already existing code is not innovation.
Taking the ideas and conceptualizations of others, and creating a product
out of that, is innovation. Understand the difference?

But what does this nitpicking have to do with the conclusion of my post,
how MS didn't ask for permission to MODIFY somebody else's code, yet now
wants everyone to get their permission just to USE the copy of software
that it sells to people through third parties?!

It's not clear if Microsoft or Seattle Computing modified CP/M. I'll concede
the point that someone modified CP/M without Gary Kildall's knowledge or
permission. That was proven in court. Given Microsoft's history it could
well have been them. I was trying to get across the point that there is
little innovation in programming. Most programs are built on what came
before them. Originally it was just a joke that I wondered how many people
would understand

Though the OP is a total idiot, Microsoft does suck! Totally hypocritical
organization. And is justly the most hated corporation in the world
today! More hated than the Catholic Church is for protecting their
child-molesting preists!

I would hardly compare predatory business practices to child-molestation.
There are many organizations that are hated more than Microsoft. You need to
get a little perspective here. Most of the world's population don't use a
computer and may not even know that Microsoft exists.

Been a fun Sunday morning debate.

Cheers, Kerry

P.S. Had to post his twice. I wonder if it got censored the first time?

Third try with some very minor wording changes.

 

[kurttrail]

If you think that the car was the single idea/invention of one person
that was not copied by many others, then you really are blinded by
your hate for MS.

Dude, you are the blinked little bitch! You don't see the difference
between taking a general idea and making your own product out of it from
taking another product, modifying it a little bit, and reselling it as
your own product!

You have definitely went back for seconds, when they were passing around
the MicroKoolAid!

I'm gonna try one more time, just to show everybody else how delusional
you are!

Say I got my hands on the Windows source code from a third party, edited
out Microsoft's trademarks and copyright notifications, added a few
lines of code of my own, compiled it, packaged it and sold it as
Kurtdows. Would that be cool with you?! Because that is basically what
Bill And MS did with the first copy of DOS!

The same with all the car vendors, they keep taking an idea, a product
created by others, improving it, making it better (most times) and
reselling it - all without credit to the guy that invented the engine.

DUDE! You are effin' insane! Totally delusional! See above! They
only way you wouldn't be delusional is if you agree it is perfectly OK
to modify and repackage Windows, without MS's permission, and start
selling Kurtdows!

No one is asked to use Windows

That's right, the OEMs just ask what version of it you want to buy!

, they pick it on their own.

Home or Pro! What other choice is there? Linux is a Server OS, and is
too arcane for the average user! [We'll being seeing NoStop soon!]

I can't believe you're so closed minded that you can't see an idea,
heck, most people don't even have to do drugs to see an idea.

But you do! The MicroKoolAid!

Sorry, others are still doing it - you need to get out an purchase
other vendors software, MS is not alone in that licensing method.

MS started it, and now the rest of the colluding members of the BSA are
doing it too! Big effin' surprise! But all they are doing is pissing
off the customer base! Linux will get easier to use for the average
person, and once it is the members of the BSA are gonna have a hell of a
bigger problem than piracy!

But in MS's case, Piracy is just the chickens coming home to roost!
Poetic effin' justice! Reaping what it sowed! Getting its just
desserts! KARMA!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"