Microsoft exec: We know users hate UAC

O

On the Bridge!

http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_exec_we_know_users_hate_uac



Here's one of the more intriguing tidbits in the hundreds of pages of emails
released as part of the Vista "junk PC" lawsuit: A Microsoft exec freely
admits that users are so annoyed with User Account Control (UAC), that
they're turning it off en masse.

The recently unsealed Microsoft emails are part of the lawsuit against
Microsoft for a marketing scheme in which people claim that Microsoft misled
consumers into buying the Windows Vista Capable PCs, even though the PCs
couldn't run the most important features of Vista.

John Kalkman, who admitted in one of the emails that Microsoft launched the
Vista Capable PC scheme in order to help Intel meet its quarterly earnings,
had this to say about UAC in a February, 2007 email:

Biggest thing I'm worried about [concerning Vista uptake] is UAC (user
access control). It looks like more and more people are turning off (based
on advice from websites) for easier friction free use.

By the way, notice that even Microsoft execs can't remember the proper name
of this feature -- it's user account control, not user access control.

It's nice that Microsoft execs know people hate UAC. But nicer still would
be if they would fix it.






--
What people are REALLY saying about Vista:
http://www.microsplot.com/news/2007..._people_are_really_saying_about_windows_vista

50 Ways to leave your Vista....

CHORUS:

You just format the drive , Clive
Get a New Mac , Jack
Y'don't need that crap toy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Boot from a *nix, Jix
You don't need to discuss much
Install XP, Lee
And get yourself free
 
A

AlexB

Incompetent users and feeble minded folks hate UAC. They cannot appreciate
the fact that by turning it off they open the gateway for malware writers
and hackers to their computers. Instead of learning basics of new computing
they follow the advice of crooks who roam this NG and encourage people to
make their job easier.

Instead of acknowledging the problem MS should explain to the public what
UAC is all about, give statistics and charts.
 
N

NoStop

AlexB said:
Incompetent users and feeble minded folks hate UAC. They cannot appreciate
the fact that by turning it off they open the gateway for malware writers
and hackers to their computers. Instead of learning basics of new
computing they follow the advice of crooks who roam this NG and encourage
people to make their job easier.

Instead of acknowledging the problem MS should explain to the public what
UAC is all about, give statistics and charts.
OK, here's a chart:

Users Frustrated with UAC: --------------------------------------- 90%
Users Who Turn off UAC: ---------------------------------------- 90%
Computers Compromised: ------------------------------------------- 100%
People Who Believe MS Got It
Wrong: -------------------------------------------- 1000%
People Who Believe MS Can Create a Secure OS: - .05%
People Who Believe CNN Has The Best Political Team on TV: Wolf Blitzer

Cheers.

--
What does Bill Gates use?
http://tinyurl.com/2zxhdl

Proprietary Software: a 20th Century software business model.

Q: What OS is built for lusers?
A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

Frank, hard at work on his Vista computer all day:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/compost.htm
 
S

Steve Thackery

Of course they'll hate it, but it's only like the elevation prompts in Mac
OSX and Linux.

I'm not convinced anything actually needs "fixing".

SteveT
 
F

Frank

NoStop said:
AlexB wrote:



OK, here's a chart:

Users Frustrated with UAC: --------------------------------------- 90%
Users Who Turn off UAC: ---------------------------------------- 90%
Computers Compromised: ------------------------------------------- 100%
People Who Believe MS Got It
Wrong: -------------------------------------------- 1000%
People Who Believe MS Can Create a Secure OS: - .05%
People Who Believe CNN Has The Best Political Team on TV: Wolf Blitzer

Cheers.
Geewiz...it sure does seem like you are a real MS hating POS lying linux
troll?
Is that true?
Frank
 
O

On the Bridge!

The only CROOK that roams the newsgroups is you.

Yes, AlexB, the Racist, the Dictator loving, hater of all unfortunate
souls.....


Everything about you is Crook. The way you think, talk, eat, sleep and the
sh&t you post in here.
Yes, AlexB, you can depend on him to HATE you.... if you are different.

You are a CROOK to human kind. Begone!!!



AlexB said:
Incompetent users and feeble minded folks hate UAC. They cannot appreciate
the fact that by turning it off they open the gateway for malware writers
and hackers to their computers. Instead of learning basics of new
computing they follow the advice of crooks who roam this NG and encourage
people to make their job easier.

Instead of acknowledging the problem MS should explain to the public what
UAC is all about, give statistics and charts.

On the Bridge! said:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_exec_we_know_users_hate_uac



Here's one of the more intriguing tidbits in the hundreds of pages of
emails released as part of the Vista "junk PC" lawsuit: A Microsoft exec
freely admits that users are so annoyed with User Account Control (UAC),
that they're turning it off en masse.

The recently unsealed Microsoft emails are part of the lawsuit against
Microsoft for a marketing scheme in which people claim that Microsoft
misled consumers into buying the Windows Vista Capable PCs, even though
the PCs couldn't run the most important features of Vista.

John Kalkman, who admitted in one of the emails that Microsoft launched
the Vista Capable PC scheme in order to help Intel meet its quarterly
earnings, had this to say about UAC in a February, 2007 email:

Biggest thing I'm worried about [concerning Vista uptake] is UAC (user
access control). It looks like more and more people are turning off
(based on advice from websites) for easier friction free use.

By the way, notice that even Microsoft execs can't remember the proper
name of this feature -- it's user account control, not user access
control.

It's nice that Microsoft execs know people hate UAC. But nicer still
would be if they would fix it.






--
What people are REALLY saying about Vista:
http://www.microsplot.com/news/2007..._people_are_really_saying_about_windows_vista

50 Ways to leave your Vista....

CHORUS:

You just format the drive , Clive
Get a New Mac , Jack
Y'don't need that crap toy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Boot from a *nix, Jix
You don't need to discuss much
Install XP, Lee
And get yourself free
 
Z

zachd [MSFT]

And then the question spins back to: and why are you/other random person
seeing UAC prompts all the time?

It's hard to argue that there are huge problems in the XP world that Vista
addresses via UAC. Many applications assumed they would always have admin
privileges, which makes them non-ideal for a locked down intranet
environment. Tools such as DropMyRights are interesting, but piecemeal.

I think one of the biggest challenges of Vista is that it does a number of
things (including UAC) that encourage better software. It's as if elements
of application verifier were now shipped with Windows. Net net, that's a
really good thing, and XP users benefit too as software quality improves
over time.
 
N

NoStop

Frank said:
Geewiz...it sure does seem like you are a real MS hating POS lying linux
troll?
Is that true?
Frank

No. But, I've told you that before numerous times. You seem to have a hard
time taking "No" for an answer. Maybe it would help if you took those meds
your doctor prescribed?

Cheers and LOL!

--
What does Bill Gates use?
http://tinyurl.com/2zxhdl

Proprietary Software: a 20th Century software business model.

Q: What OS is built for lusers?
A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

Frank, hard at work on his Vista computer all day:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/compost.htm
 
F

Frank

NoStop said:

No! Do you actually think anyone believes you? Oh, I know you don't care
if you lie. We all have seen your "act" many times in this ng.

But, I've told you that before numerous times.

Yeah, you've always lied about that in the past.

You seem to have a hard
time taking "No" for an answer.

No about what? That you're not a liar or a troll? Your words prove
otherwise.

Maybe it would help if you took those meds
your doctor prescribed?

Sorry pal, but I take no drugs...neither legal nor illegal. I'm in
excellent health. You however seem to be in a continuous mental state of
delusion and self denial as evidenced by the fact that you are even here.
Frank
 
M

Mick Murphy

You don't know what UAC is about.

You use it because you are too dumb to know better, BOOFHEAD.
--
Mick Murphy - Qld - Australia


AlexB said:
Incompetent users and feeble minded folks hate UAC. They cannot appreciate
the fact that by turning it off they open the gateway for malware writers
and hackers to their computers. Instead of learning basics of new computing
they follow the advice of crooks who roam this NG and encourage people to
make their job easier.

Instead of acknowledging the problem MS should explain to the public what
UAC is all about, give statistics and charts.

On the Bridge! said:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_exec_we_know_users_hate_uac



Here's one of the more intriguing tidbits in the hundreds of pages of
emails released as part of the Vista "junk PC" lawsuit: A Microsoft exec
freely admits that users are so annoyed with User Account Control (UAC),
that they're turning it off en masse.

The recently unsealed Microsoft emails are part of the lawsuit against
Microsoft for a marketing scheme in which people claim that Microsoft
misled consumers into buying the Windows Vista Capable PCs, even though
the PCs couldn't run the most important features of Vista.

John Kalkman, who admitted in one of the emails that Microsoft launched
the Vista Capable PC scheme in order to help Intel meet its quarterly
earnings, had this to say about UAC in a February, 2007 email:

Biggest thing I'm worried about [concerning Vista uptake] is UAC (user
access control). It looks like more and more people are turning off (based
on advice from websites) for easier friction free use.

By the way, notice that even Microsoft execs can't remember the proper
name of this feature -- it's user account control, not user access
control.

It's nice that Microsoft execs know people hate UAC. But nicer still would
be if they would fix it.






--
What people are REALLY saying about Vista:
http://www.microsplot.com/news/2007..._people_are_really_saying_about_windows_vista

50 Ways to leave your Vista....

CHORUS:

You just format the drive , Clive
Get a New Mac , Jack
Y'don't need that crap toy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Boot from a *nix, Jix
You don't need to discuss much
Install XP, Lee
And get yourself free
 
M

Michael Jennings

UAC needs work. It got plenty before RTM, but not enough. Denying
that it needs work is understandable but either irrational or dishonest.
Diversion is one of the techniques of denial. Training users to tolerate
being brought to a halt is less achievable than doing the no doubt
daunting work of eliminating or minimizing the occurrence of this.
 
W

WaruiKoohii

The numbers I've seen are more along the lines of

Users who keep UAC enabled ---------- 80%
Users who disable UAC ------------------20%

An unacceptably high number, since it can safely be assumed that the vast
majority of those who disable UAC then proceed to run as Administrator, but
the fact that we're seeing the majority of users keeping UAC enabled means
that the Windows ecosystem is becoming more secure.
 
Z

zachd [MSFT]

I've never made any denial of "work" being a great thing always with regards
to everything. I'm certainly not living in some post-post-post-modern
utopian world. (eats food pellet...) ;-)

So this brings us back to my question of specifics: what does random user X
on an SP1 system continue doing that is causing this to pop up an
unacceptable number of times?

Comments like "1000 times a day" are clearly hyperbole, but -- if we can
have precise discussions of pain points, those are much more likely to be
addressable concerns as opposed to generic hand-wringing on the current
hated feature of the day.

We all like helping you. I promise you there are no trolls locked up in
dark dank rooms figuring out how to thwart you best. The more coherent the
discussion becomes, the more likely it is that issues can be understood and
improvements made where applicable.

Cheers,
-Zach
 
M

Michael Jennings

Well we disagree - no biggie. Whereas I think Microsoft should hijack
POLA from HP labs and give the geezers some interns and access to
the kernel, you wish to adjust the botch to a tolerable level of pain. My
notion is a lot riskier - security without pop-ups if it paid off. Oh yes, and
an end to the anti-malware vendors. Disruptive. Microsoft won't do it.

Random user X likes to play with his computer, installing scads of stuff
from here and there to see what it will do. UAC is probably turned off.
Ubuntu has a hush-hush way to run as root, I guess for random user X.

I enjoy reading your posts. Media Center ought to be good for a developer.
Screwball schemes to create transparently secure computing likely aren't.
Accommodating random user X while obliterating the malware industry
is not a challenge that hasn't received a certain amount of attention.

zachd said:
I've never made any denial of "work" being a great thing always with regards
to everything. I'm certainly not living in some post-post-post-modern utopian
world. (eats food pellet...) ;-)

So this brings us back to my question of specifics: what does random user X on
an SP1 system continue doing that is causing this to pop up an unacceptable
number of times?

Comments like "1000 times a day" are clearly hyperbole, but -- if we can have
precise discussions of pain points, those are much more likely to be
addressable concerns as opposed to generic hand-wringing on the current hated
feature of the day.

We all like helping you. I promise you there are no trolls locked up in dark
dank rooms figuring out how to thwart you best. The more coherent the
discussion becomes, the more likely it is that issues can be understood and
improvements made where applicable.

Cheers,
-Zach
 
T

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly

zachd said:
I've never made any denial of "work" being a great thing always with regards
to everything. I'm certainly not living in some post-post-post-modern
utopian world. (eats food pellet...) ;-)

So this brings us back to my question of specifics: what does random user X
on an SP1 system continue doing that is causing this to pop up an
unacceptable number of times?

Comments like "1000 times a day" are clearly hyperbole, but -- if we can
have precise discussions of pain points, those are much more likely to be
addressable concerns as opposed to generic hand-wringing on the current
hated feature of the day.

We all like helping you. I promise you there are no trolls locked up in
dark dank rooms figuring out how to thwart you best. The more coherent the
discussion becomes, the more likely it is that issues can be understood and
improvements made where applicable.

Cheers,
-Zach

Hi Zach.

Why does it matter if this issue happens on SP1? Have there been
specific improvements made to UAC in SP1? I ask because I'm one of the
disenchanted ones who turned it off, but if it has been improved, I
would prolly turn it back on and test it out again. Thanks.

--
"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett
 
Z

zachd [MSFT]

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"
Why does it matter if this issue happens on SP1? Have there been specific
improvements made to UAC in SP1? I ask because I'm one of the
disenchanted ones who turned it off, but if it has been improved, I would
prolly turn it back on and test it out again. Thanks.

Yep, various paths were optimized to not have multiple prompts, that sort of
thing. This experience should be slightly smoother overall now.
 

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