Medium-Well Hard Drive

[Jim in Canada]

Asus P4PE BIOS 1007
P4 2.8
1GIG Ram
ATI AIW 9000 Pro
Western Digital 120gig w/8MB Cache, Seagate Barracuda 80gig
WinXP HE SP2 (yes, the beta update), Norton AV, Spybot S&D

Does anyone know what could wind my hard drives up so much, that it is too
hot to touch? I do not "hey that is pretty warm", I am talking "MY GOD, IT'S
SO HOT I THINK I LEFT THE SKIN OF MY FINGERS STUCK TO IT!"

It started out as intermittent mouse problems, then lockups, but no reboots.
But I was starting to receive messages during post of hard drive failure, no
operating system found, or can not access master boot record. The message
was different almost every boot. I Thought I was infected with a virus or
something. Also, the motherboard decided to try and boot from the Intel NIC
for no apparent reason, as it is not selected as a boot devise in the BIOS.
When I was able to load XP, I ran the NAV, nothing. Spybot, nothing. I even
went to a couple online virus-scanners and nothing was found. so I decided
to completely wipe the system and start a fresh.

XP would do the complete install, but on the last reboot, I would receive
the same errors again. So I booted with a 98 boot disk, and tried to
fdisk/mbr. Thought maybe something nasty had got onto the master boot
record....but fdisk would post a message that the mbr was NOT updated. I
could partition, delete partitions, but could not do anything to the mbr.

So I decided to pull the entire machine apart, and when I went to touch the
hard drives they were so hot, it was unbelievable. I let them cool (took
about an hour) and when I took them out, the black plastic on the underside
of the WD was a little scorched. I can not tell with the Seagate, as it has
a fancy chrome cover on the bottom of it.

I went out and purchased a hard drive cooler for the WD (the type that
attaches to the bottom of the HD), and another fan for the front of the
case. A round IDE cable for better air flow. I re-hooked up the WD and
booted the 98 boot disk floppy. Fdisked the MBR successfully, and
reinstalled WinXP with SP1.

Everything so far is working, but I do not believe my Western Digital HD is
not long for this world......I have run some tests on it, and it passes them
all. I even defragged it a couple times to see if it would get warm again,
but it is staying pretty cool to the touch now.

Anyone know what may have caused the drives to get so unbelievably hot in
the first place?

Sorry for the ramble

Jim

 

[daytripper]

Asus P4PE BIOS 1007
P4 2.8
1GIG Ram
ATI AIW 9000 Pro
Western Digital 120gig w/8MB Cache, Seagate Barracuda 80gig
WinXP HE SP2 (yes, the beta update), Norton AV, Spybot S&D

Does anyone know what could wind my hard drives up so much, that it is too
hot to touch? I do not "hey that is pretty warm", I am talking "MY GOD, IT'S
SO HOT I THINK I LEFT THE SKIN OF MY FINGERS STUCK TO IT!"

It started out as intermittent mouse problems, then lockups, but no reboots.
But I was starting to receive messages during post of hard drive failure, no
operating system found, or can not access master boot record. The message
was different almost every boot. I Thought I was infected with a virus or
something. Also, the motherboard decided to try and boot from the Intel NIC
for no apparent reason, as it is not selected as a boot devise in the BIOS.
When I was able to load XP, I ran the NAV, nothing. Spybot, nothing. I even
went to a couple online virus-scanners and nothing was found. so I decided
to completely wipe the system and start a fresh.

XP would do the complete install, but on the last reboot, I would receive
the same errors again. So I booted with a 98 boot disk, and tried to
fdisk/mbr. Thought maybe something nasty had got onto the master boot
record....but fdisk would post a message that the mbr was NOT updated. I
could partition, delete partitions, but could not do anything to the mbr.

So I decided to pull the entire machine apart, and when I went to touch the
hard drives they were so hot, it was unbelievable. I let them cool (took
about an hour) and when I took them out, the black plastic on the underside
of the WD was a little scorched. I can not tell with the Seagate, as it has
a fancy chrome cover on the bottom of it.

I went out and purchased a hard drive cooler for the WD (the type that
attaches to the bottom of the HD), and another fan for the front of the
case. A round IDE cable for better air flow. I re-hooked up the WD and
booted the 98 boot disk floppy. Fdisked the MBR successfully, and
reinstalled WinXP with SP1.

Everything so far is working, but I do not believe my Western Digital HD is
not long for this world......I have run some tests on it, and it passes them
all. I even defragged it a couple times to see if it would get warm again,
but it is staying pretty cool to the touch now.

Anyone know what may have caused the drives to get so unbelievably hot in
the first place?

Sorry for the ramble

Jim

It's pretty friggin' obvious what the problem was...

/daytripper

 

[Jim in Canada]

It's pretty friggin' obvious what the problem was...

/daytripper

If you are referring to one and only piece of beta software installed on the
system, it had been on there for about a month with no problems (except the
mediaplayer wmv and wma file buggy) But if that is a known problem with SP2,
please let me know

Have a nice day.
Jim

 

[bill]

<snip>
<>
<> It's pretty friggin' obvious what the problem was...
<>
<> /daytripper
<
<If you are referring to one and only piece of beta software installed on the
<system, it had been on there for about a month with no problems (except the
<mediaplayer wmv and wma file buggy) But if that is a known problem with SP2,
<please let me know
<
<Have a nice day.
<Jim
<
<
<
<

No, it's that you had no cooling around your hard drives.

Bill

 

[Tim]

I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that any beta software could
cause HDD temp problems.

FYI I have XP SP2 RC1 in and my CPU temp has dropped significantly - it is
now 8c over ambient idling (P4 2.8c no overclocking, zalman ALCU cooler). Oh
and the HDD's (seagates admittedly) are ambient to touch.

- Tim

 

[bill]

<I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that any beta software could
<cause HDD temp problems.
<
<FYI I have XP SP2 RC1 in and my CPU temp has dropped significantly - it is
<now 8c over ambient idling (P4 2.8c no overclocking, zalman ALCU cooler). Oh
<and the HDD's (seagates admittedly) are ambient to touch.
<
<- Tim

<snip>

I didn't say anything about software. That's the problem with top
posters, they never read far enough down to find the answer.

Bill

 

[Michael Painter]

<I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that any beta software could
<cause HDD temp problems.
<
<FYI I have XP SP2 RC1 in and my CPU temp has dropped significantly - it is
<now 8c over ambient idling (P4 2.8c no overclocking, zalman ALCU cooler). Oh
<and the HDD's (seagates admittedly) are ambient to touch.
<
<- Tim

<snip>

I didn't say anything about software. That's the problem with top
posters, they never read far enough down to find the answer.

Bill

Bill

Even though Tim replied to your post, I believe he was referring to Jim's statement on the beta software.

--Michael

 

[Holpet]

Jim, go to WesternDigitals home page and download there diagnostic
software...it's free.

Holpet

 

[Jim in Canada]

<snip>
<>
<> It's pretty friggin' obvious what the problem was...
<>
<> /daytripper
<
<If you are referring to one and only piece of beta software installed on the
<system, it had been on there for about a month with no problems (except the
<mediaplayer wmv and wma file buggy) But if that is a known problem with SP2,
<please let me know
<
<Have a nice day.
<Jim
<

No, it's that you had no cooling around your hard drives.

Bill

The case does have a fan drawing air out of the box directly behind the hard
drives....I have built a total of 7 machines ranging from 5 x PIII's to 2 x
P4's and I have never before had to install direct cooling for hard drives.
I am posting from a P4B266 system which is on 24/7 and the drives have no
direct cooling and are fine. Warm, but no where near as hot as the P4PE
system was. . . . I guess hard drive direct cooling will be a feature I will
add from now on to be on the safe side. $24CDN is not that much to pay to
keep a person's data from cooking.

Thanks guys.
Jim

 

[daytripper]

If you are referring to one and only piece of beta software installed on the
system, it had been on there for about a month with no problems (except the
mediaplayer wmv and wma file buggy) But if that is a known problem with SP2,
please let me know

Have a nice day.
Jim

OMG that's HILARIOUS!

/daytripper (who thought he'd seen everything ;-)

 

[Ed Edelenbos]

OMG that's HILARIOUS!

/daytripper (who thought he'd seen everything ;-)

I don't get it... why the condescending attitude? Why is it that some of
y'all feel the need to display your "manhood" by belittling those who ask
questions? Compensating for some other area of your life? Why can't you
just bypass the question if it isn't worthy of your attention or answer it
and help the guy out?

I guess it is what should be expected on a "geeky" group. I bet it'll
change when some of you get through junior high.

Ed

 

[bill]

<snip>
<
<> No, it's that you had no cooling around your hard drives.
<>
<> Bill
<
<The case does have a fan drawing air out of the box directly behind the hard
<drives....I have built a total of 7 machines ranging from 5 x PIII's to 2 x
<P4's and I have never before had to install direct cooling for hard drives.
<I am posting from a P4B266 system which is on 24/7 and the drives have no
<direct cooling and are fine. Warm, but no where near as hot as the P4PE
<system was. . . . I guess hard drive direct cooling will be a feature I will
<add from now on to be on the safe side. $24CDN is not that much to pay to
<keep a person's data from cooking.
<
<Thanks guys.
<Jim
<
<

Well, I don't remember your mentioning case particulars, but hard
drives have gotten hotter since they increased the speeds to 7200
rpm+ and started encasing them with sound dampening materials.

Good air flow around your drives is a must, whether it's from
direct cooling or good case layout, if your going to get any
longevity out of them.

I've got 6 hard drives in this machine and they'd run very hot
packed close together if I didn't have 80 mm fans blowing air
through the hard drive cages and round cables at the rear to
decrease the impedance to air flow. My case is an Antec SX1040.

Bill

 

[bill]

<
<> In article <[email protected]>, (e-mail address removed) says...
<> <I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that any beta software could
<> <cause HDD temp problems.
<> <
<> <FYI I have XP SP2 RC1 in and my CPU temp has dropped significantly - it is
<> <now 8c over ambient idling (P4 2.8c no overclocking, zalman ALCU cooler). Oh
<> <and the HDD's (seagates admittedly) are ambient to touch.
<> <
<> <- Tim
<>
<> <snip>
<>
<> I didn't say anything about software. That's the problem with top
<> posters, they never read far enough down to find the answer.
<>
<> Bill
<
<
<Bill
<
<Even though Tim replied to your post, I believe he was referring to Jim's statement on the beta software.
<
<--Michael
<
<
<

So then he has a netiquette problem, top posting and not
mentioning that he's piggybacking on my post, or a reading
comprehension problem?

Bill

 

[Fishface]

Jim in Canada

I went out and purchased a hard drive cooler for the WD (the
type that attaches to the bottom of the HD), and another fan
for the front of the case.

So, it was the WD that was running hot? Were they both stacked
with no space in between? Here is a link which shows some HDD
temperatures for comparison. Select the correct item, of course...
http://storagereview.com/php/benchmark/bench_sort.php
If you find that there is something abnormal, WD is good about
replacing them...

 

[Jim in Canada]

<snip>
<
<> No, it's that you had no cooling around your hard drives.
<>
<> Bill
<
<The case does have a fan drawing air out of the box directly behind the hard
<drives....I have built a total of 7 machines ranging from 5 x PIII's to 2 x
<P4's and I have never before had to install direct cooling for hard drives.
<I am posting from a P4B266 system which is on 24/7 and the drives have no
<direct cooling and are fine. Warm, but no where near as hot as the P4PE
<system was. . . . I guess hard drive direct cooling will be a feature I will
<add from now on to be on the safe side. $24CDN is not that much to pay to
<keep a person's data from cooking.
<
<Thanks guys.
<Jim
<
<

Well, I don't remember your mentioning case particulars, but hard
drives have gotten hotter since they increased the speeds to 7200
rpm+ and started encasing them with sound dampening materials.

Antec Overture:
http://www.antec-inc.com/us/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=15728#
The hard drives were mounted in the lower left cage:
http://www.antec-inc.com/images/400/Overture_inside.jpg
I removed one of the CDRoms from the front (top left) and put in a 5 1/2
drive bay fan to bring more air in. Plus I am using only the one HD now.

Good air flow around your drives is a must, whether it's from
direct cooling or good case layout, if your going to get any
longevity out of them.

I've got 6 hard drives in this machine and they'd run very hot
packed close together if I didn't have 80 mm fans blowing air
through the hard drive cages and round cables at the rear to
decrease the impedance to air flow. My case is an Antec SX1040.

Bill

That was one of my purchases yesterday (round cables) along with the hard
drive fan.

Just to update, it seems to be all back up and running OK. I have had it
running full boar since 9am this morning. Ran some WD tests on the hard
drive (all passed) and now I am running seti@home with ASUS hardware monitor
running. 100% processor usage and 56 degrees Celsius on the processor The
hard drive is warm, but no where near as hot as it was. So far so good.

Just thought the hard drive overheat was a little odd, since I had this
setup for about a year with no major problems.
Jim

 

[Stephan Grossklass]

Here is a link which shows some HDD
temperatures for comparison. Select the correct item, of course...
http://storagereview.com/php/benchmark/bench_sort.php

These are the *net* drives temperatures, i.e. T_drive - T_ambient. The
direct comparison feature will also reveal both of these values. Just
thought I'd mention that in case someone's wondering which fridge these
drives were mounted in...

Stephan

 

[DaveW]

It sounds like the bearings in the harddrive failed and caused the
overheating. Time for a new HD, I'm afraid.

 

[bill]

<snip>
<Antec Overture:
<http://www.antec-inc.com/us/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=15728#
<The hard drives were mounted in the lower left cage:
<http://www.antec-inc.com/images/400/Overture_inside.jpg

That's a small case. It makes cooling a bit harder. Laying flat
like it does aggravates the problem.

<I removed one of the CDRoms from the front (top left) and put in a 5 1/2
<drive bay fan to bring more air in. Plus I am using only the one HD now.
<
<> Good air flow around your drives is a must, whether it's from
<> direct cooling or good case layout, if your going to get any
<> longevity out of them.
<>
<> I've got 6 hard drives in this machine and they'd run very hot
<> packed close together if I didn't have 80 mm fans blowing air
<> through the hard drive cages and round cables at the rear to
<> decrease the impedance to air flow. My case is an Antec SX1040.
<>
<> Bill
<
<That was one of my purchases yesterday (round cables) along with the hard
<drive fan.
<
<Just to update, it seems to be all back up and running OK. I have had it
<running full boar since 9am this morning. Ran some WD tests on the hard
<drive (all passed) and now I am running seti@home with ASUS hardware monitor
<running. 100% processor usage and 56 degrees Celsius on the processor The
<hard drive is warm, but no where near as hot as it was. So far so good.
<
<Just thought the hard drive overheat was a little odd, since I had this
<setup for about a year with no major problems.
<Jim
<

Might have bee dirt build up cutting down air flow somewhere or
maybe your case fan/powersupply fan are going bad, running slower
than they used to, moving less air.

Bill

 

[Paul]

Antec Overture:
http://www.antec-inc.com/us/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=15728#
The hard drives were mounted in the lower left cage:
http://www.antec-inc.com/images/400/Overture_inside.jpg
I removed one of the CDRoms from the front (top left) and put in a 5 1/2
drive bay fan to bring more air in. Plus I am using only the one HD now.


That was one of my purchases yesterday (round cables) along with the hard
drive fan.

Just to update, it seems to be all back up and running OK. I have had it
running full boar since 9am this morning. Ran some WD tests on the hard
drive (all passed) and now I am running seti@home with ASUS hardware monitor
running. 100% processor usage and 56 degrees Celsius on the processor The
hard drive is warm, but no where near as hot as it was. So far so good.

Just thought the hard drive overheat was a little odd, since I had this
setup for about a year with no major problems.
Jim

Maybe you should look into one of these:

http://www.thermaltake.com/products/hdcooler/hdcooler.htm

I got something similar before Christmas, with the two LCD
temperature monitors but without the fan. There are LCD
monitors which run on batteries (a mistake) or run off
computer power, and perhaps you can monitor the drive
temperature over a matter of days.

The power consumption of the drive is for the most part
limited on +5V, because that is used to power the controller.
But the +12V provides power for the drive motor (and perhaps
the actuator), and can draw up to 2 amps before the drive shuts
down and declares a problem.

As others have said, it could be you have a bearing problem,
and when the drive first starts up, there could be enough
lubricant effect to keep the drive running normally for a
while. While your problem could be lack of air circulation,
there will be plenty of computer cases out there, just like
yours, and drives aren't dropping like flies. I think the
symptoms are too suspicious to be just bad luck.

Do you have the drives set up to spin down while running
Seti ? Or does Seti pretty much keep the drive running ?
Maybe you can set up a RAM disk for Seti, if it needs a
scratch disk, allowing the hard drive to spin down. That
will leave the PSU as the remaining "weak link".

Paul

 

[Jim in Canada]

<snip>
<Antec Overture:
<http://www.antec-inc.com/us/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=15728#
<The hard drives were mounted in the lower left cage:
<http://www.antec-inc.com/images/400/Overture_inside.jpg

That's a small case. It makes cooling a bit harder. Laying flat
like it does aggravates the problem.

<I removed one of the CDRoms from the front (top left) and put in a 5 1/2
<drive bay fan to bring more air in. Plus I am using only the one HD now.
<
<> Good air flow around your drives is a must, whether it's from
<> direct cooling or good case layout, if your going to get any
<> longevity out of them.
<>
<> I've got 6 hard drives in this machine and they'd run very hot
<> packed close together if I didn't have 80 mm fans blowing air
<> through the hard drive cages and round cables at the rear to
<> decrease the impedance to air flow. My case is an Antec SX1040.
<>
<> Bill
<
<That was one of my purchases yesterday (round cables) along with the hard
<drive fan.
<
<Just to update, it seems to be all back up and running OK. I have had it
<running full boar since 9am this morning. Ran some WD tests on the hard
<drive (all passed) and now I am running seti@home with ASUS hardware monitor
<running. 100% processor usage and 56 degrees Celsius on the processor The
<hard drive is warm, but no where near as hot as it was. So far so good.
<
<Just thought the hard drive overheat was a little odd, since I had this
<setup for about a year with no major problems.
<Jim
<

Might have bee dirt build up cutting down air flow somewhere or
maybe your case fan/powersupply fan are going bad, running slower
than they used to, moving less air.

Bill

It is the larger of the 2 "lifestyle" series cases Antec makes. About the
same size as a Pioneer or Sherwood (what ever happened to Sherwood?) audio
amplifier, so it fits and looks good in the entertainment unit. (With about
6 inches of clearance all around for circulation).
I had it all pulled apart, and all was clean. The IDE ribbons were replaced,
as the cdrom and HD being back to back, the round IDE made for better air
flow.

I entered the BIOS just a little while ago and noticed the monitor for the
case fan was set to ignore. When I set it to monitor, it changed to a red
~1120 rpm. Maybe the Antec Smart Cool fan is going?? I can not get the
system to boot up with it set to monitor, as the computer halts and says I
should check my setup.

Thanks again,
Jim