Manifesto posts

[DP]

Any post with "manifesto" in the subject line and/or "FYI," I will skip over
or mark the conversation as having been read.
That means I'll have to include THIS post as well. But what the heck, life
is a series of trade-offs, right?

Just thought you might like to know.

 

[Jon]

Any post with "manifesto" in the subject line and/or "FYI," I will skip
over or mark the conversation as having been read.
That means I'll have to include THIS post as well. But what the heck, life
is a series of trade-offs, right?

Just thought you might like to know.

And there was me thinking American presidential campaigns weren't until next
year.

 

[Spanky deMonkey]

So you don't want to hear about Kevin and his political views? Just FYI

 

[Adam Albright]

So you don't want to hear about Kevin and his political views? Just FYI

Lets ask Frank to run for the job opening a certain senator in Utah
just resigned from. After all, Frankie is well practiced in peeking in
between the cracks in men's room stalls already and I'm sure he can
learn to tab his foot. So he'll have a leg up because he can start up
a conversation with the guy in the next stall and tell him how great
Vista is. <snicker>

 

[Jon]

Sure.. just let me get this beer down me and I'll be all ears.

--
Jon

So you don't want to hear about Kevin and his political views? Just FYI

 

[DanS]

Lets ask Frank to run for the job opening a certain senator in Utah
just resigned from.

Did you see the police report ?

It's pretty funny what is considered 'lewd'. I guess I won't be tapping my
foot to music in public anymore...

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/craig-arrest-doc/?resultpage=1&

 

[Adam Albright]

Did you see the police report ?

It's pretty funny what is considered 'lewd'. I guess I won't be tapping my
foot to music in public anymore...

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/craig-arrest-doc/?resultpage=1&

Wow! Thanks for the link. From reading that, it seems the cop is the
pervert. LOL! From the details it would seem the "crime" Senator Craig
committed was that of stupidity for saying he was guilty. Guilty of
what? Clearly he just wanted to put the event behind him, but talk
about poor judgment. Maybe he was interested in something, maybe not,
but the whole thing reeks of entrapment.

I know a LOT of cops. Two uncles were cops in Chicago. I used to bowl
in a late league that was mostly cops. One of my neighbors was a cop.
I know cops. Most have a us verse them mentality. Many lie in their
written reports, not just a little, whole fabrications, just what I
heard from my uncles would curl your hair.

My first experience with a Chicago cop, I was about 22, made a right
turn as some traffic light was just changing to red. Pattywagon lights
me up and pulls me over. In Chicago at least in the late 60's about to
retire or overweight cops in pairs mostly drove the pattywagon around
the district mostly killing time. Pattywagons are a transport vehicle
mostly used to haul prisoners, scoop up drunks, etc.. First word out
of this fat cop's mouth wasn't let me see your driver's license,
rather "where do you work son?" I tell him, a big smile comes across
his face.

At the time I worked at a liquor warehouse/distributor. Says he knows
my boss well, Hell, he should, half the cops in Chicago knew my boss
the superintendent. Anyway he meets me at work the next day and walks
out with a package of his own selection, doesn't even ask, been there
before obviously, just takes what he wants. Such a common happening
the guys in the warehouse don't even look up at the constant parade of
cops in and out of the warehouse. But gosh damn, did we get good
service. Just the ADT alarm going off instead of two or three cop cars
showing up which would be normal, we got 20 or more from even outside
of the district the warehouse was in.

I don't like right wingers and Craig was one of those phony finger
pointers and holly rollers. Still he got set up in this so-called
sting. What Craig should have done instead of giving him his business
card peel over a few hundred dollars from his no doubt fat wallet and
just wink or maybe drop it on the floor and see if the cop picked it
up. Even odds the cop would have and probably shake Craig's hand
after.

 

[DanS]

Wow! Thanks for the link. From reading that, it seems the cop is the
pervert. LOL! From the details it would seem the "crime" Senator Craig
committed was that of stupidity for saying he was guilty. Guilty of
what? Clearly he just wanted to put the event behind him, but talk
about poor judgment. Maybe he was interested in something, maybe not,
but the whole thing reeks of entrapment.

Entrapment is a little too much maybe, but looking at the facts of what
was in the report, I can't see where a crime was commited, nor lewd
behavior. Noone exposed themselves to anyone, and no words were even
spoken !! When I was travelling for work and in a lot of airports, it
would just seem natural to put your carry-on against the door of the
stall. Where the hell else ya' gonna put it ! That's the only place it
fits unless your in the giant handicapped stall.

His mistake was pleading guilty. You never cop to anything, whether you
did it or not.

I know a LOT of cops. Two uncles were cops in Chicago. I used to bowl
in a late league that was mostly cops. One of my neighbors was a cop.
I know cops. Most have a us verse them mentality. Many lie in their
written reports, not just a little, whole fabrications, just what I
heard from my uncles would curl your hair.

I believe it all. Cops are no better than anyone else when it comes to
abusing authority.

I don't like right wingers and Craig was one of those phony finger
pointers and holly rollers. Still he got set up in this so-called
sting. What Craig should have done instead of giving him his business
card peel over a few hundred dollars from his no doubt fat wallet and
just wink or maybe drop it on the floor and see if the cop picked it
up. Even odds the cop would have and probably shake Craig's hand
after.

Well, I don't know about all that. But, whipping out the business card is
what probably did him in.

 

[Adam Albright]

Entrapment is a little too much maybe, but looking at the facts of what
was in the report, I can't see where a crime was commited, nor lewd
behavior. Noone exposed themselves to anyone, and no words were even
spoken !! When I was travelling for work and in a lot of airports, it
would just seem natural to put your carry-on against the door of the
stall. Where the hell else ya' gonna put it ! That's the only place it
fits unless your in the giant handicapped stall.

Exactly! Where the heck does this cop think somebody in a airport
restroom is suppose to put the stuff they happen to be lugging around
with them? Heck the typical bathroom stall isn't very wide or that
deep either.

I like the line in the cop's report: "I could see an older white male
with grey hair standing outside my stall" Very curious a cop in a
stall that admits in his previous paragraph he was sitting in the
stall could see it was an older white male with grey hair. How do you
see anybody's head outside the stall if that guy is standing if you
are sitting in a bathroom stall with the door closed? If Craig was
close enough the cop couldn't see anywhere near Craig's head, at best
he could see no higher than mid chest. If Craig was further way then
you can't jump to the conclusion Craig was doing anything but waiting
for a stall to open up.

Later in the report this bone head cop makes the comment "Craig's
criminal history was clear". Oh really? Obviously the cop is judging
and any attorney would have had a field day with this cop on the stand
as to why he picked to put such words in his report.

His mistake was pleading guilty. You never cop to anything, whether you
did it or not.

No kidding.

 

[DP]

I believe it all. Cops are no better than anyone else when it comes to
abusing authority.

It's rather a specious argument to say that since there are bad cops (which
I don't deny), therefore Craig is innocent. That argument could be used by
anyone who has ever been arrested. As in, there are bad cops, so OJ didn't
do it.

Maybe it's common practice to put your carryon luggage where Craig put his.
But I doubt it's common practice to put your foot so far into the other
stall that it touches the other guy's foot or to run your hand along the
divider between the two stalls. My understanding is that while the cop was
in the stall to the right of Craig, it was Craig's LEFT hand that he was
running along the stall wall. In other words, he had to lean all the way
over to do that.

Whether that's all code for "let's get it on" I do not know. But I think
it's enough to constitute "disorderly conduct."
That's what he was arrested for and that's what he pleaded to IIRC.

 

[Adam Albright]

It's rather a specious argument to say that since there are bad cops (which
I don't deny), therefore Craig is innocent. That argument could be used by
anyone who has ever been arrested. As in, there are bad cops, so OJ didn't
do it.

I'm not suggesting Craig is innocent by any means. I commented on his
stupidity on admitting to something he claims he didn't do. I find it
even more ludicrous that this Bozo is now trying to undo his guilty
plea after making a big public deal of his "intent" to resign on 9/30
when the forms he signed two months after the fact clearly say he
acknowledges he IS guilty and if he is innocent he understands he
should not claim otherwise to simply make the event go away.

Considering those on the facts in this case Craig is left with one
choice. Claim a defense he didn't understand what he was signing,
thereby admitting the voters of Utah put a village idiot in the Senate
since he didn't send in the forms where he plead guilty until two
months later when he had plenty of time to get legal council in this
time frame between getting arrested and admitting he was guilty.

So trying to unring the bell which itself is a steep legal challenge
with only two legal excuses under Minnesota law to try to undo his
guilty plea seems crazy. Either claim you were forced to plead guilty
under duress or claim you were too stupid to understand what you were
signing.

Forget what he was charged with and plead guilty to. If you were a
voter in Utah would you vote for an idiot that admits he don't
understand simple language on a form when he signs away his rights and
admits he's guilty when his job for 25 years was to WRITE laws in
Congress? How nuts is that?

Craig is toast no matter what he does. From a political view the Dems
got to be dancing in the streets. The Repugs got to be pissed off and
likely with tar and feather this clown since just throwing him under
the bus like they already done he hasn't got the message they don't
want him around. I mean they already stripped away all his assignments
on committees, so if by some miracle voters are dumb enough to return
him to office he would have nothing to do but just vote and be a
constant reminder of Repug hypocrisy.

 

[Adam Albright]

Lets cut to the chase to illustrate how STUPID Senator Craig actually
is. He was in the House/Senate for 25 years and this Bozo doesn't even
know what the Constitution, the document he swore an oath or uphold
and defend says. What a putz! He had a get out of jail free card all
the time if he only knew it!

Article One, Section Six of United States Constitution says:

"The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for
their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury
of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony
and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their
Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to
and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either
House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."

So in simple English, any member of Congress is immune from arrest, if
coming or going from any official "business" of the Congress except
for those crimes mentioned above.

In other words all Senator Craig had to do when the cop slid his
business card under the stall as a prelude to arresting him was ignore
the cop's business card, step on it, piss on it, wipe his ass with it,
tear it in half, whatever. The smarter thing would have been to calmly
finish his business in the stall, walk out then quote what I just did
to the cop. The cop probably would have stood there with his mouth
open then called his superiors and a short time later be told walk
away you stupid dumb ass, you almost screwed up big time and
embarrassed our department. Cops are suppose to know the law too. The
cop probably thought oh boy, I caught a big fish and tired to make a
big deal out of nothing.

I'm not defending Craig, only showing how dumb he was. It is common
knowledge as a matter of show, most members of Congress carry a copy
of the Constitution with them at all times. The cop wasn't exactly an
Einstein either.

 

[Bill Yanaire]

Lets cut to the chase to illustrate how STUPID Senator Craig actually
is. He was in the House/Senate for 25 years and this Bozo doesn't even
know what the Constitution, the document he swore an oath or uphold
and defend says. What a putz! He had a get out of jail free card all
the time if he only knew it!

Article One, Section Six of United States Constitution says:

"The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for
their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury
of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony
and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their
Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to
and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either
House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."

So in simple English, any member of Congress is immune from arrest, if
coming or going from any official "business" of the Congress except
for those crimes mentioned above.

In other words all Senator Craig had to do when the cop slid his
business card under the stall as a prelude to arresting him was ignore
the cop's business card, step on it, piss on it, wipe his ass with it,
tear it in half, whatever. The smarter thing would have been to calmly
finish his business in the stall, walk out then quote what I just did
to the cop. The cop probably would have stood there with his mouth
open then called his superiors and a short time later be told walk
away you stupid dumb ass, you almost screwed up big time and
embarrassed our department. Cops are suppose to know the law too. The
cop probably thought oh boy, I caught a big fish and tired to make a
big deal out of nothing.

I believe the Senator passed his card to the officer, trying to get out of
the mess he was in. But you are right, why didn't the Senator invoke the
article that you posted here? I think that would have gotten him out of the
fix, but on the other hand, maybe he wanted to keep it hush hush and by
saying that he was immune, could have shed more light on his situation. We
will never know.

 

[Adam Albright]

I believe the Senator passed his card to the officer, trying to get out of
the mess he was in.

Could be, and that's what set the cop off.

But you are right, why didn't the Senator invoke the
article that you posted here? I think that would have gotten him out of the
fix, but on the other hand, maybe he wanted to keep it hush hush and by
saying that he was immune, could have shed more light on his situation. We
will never know.

What I would LOVE to known in stories like this WHO leaked it, why and
how did they get their hands on the interview audio tape etc..

 

[DP]

Could be, and that's what set the cop off.


What I would LOVE to known in stories like this WHO leaked it, why and
how did they get their hands on the interview audio tape etc..

I believe the audio tape was released by police AFTER the story broke.
The person who wrote the original story has not said who leaked it, nor is
he likely to.
The clarify earlier points, based on my recollection of what I read about
it:

1) The cop flashed his badge under the stall, not a business card. So, for
Sen. Craig to wipe his ass with the badge (that's assuming the officer would
let go of it) would be pretty painful, I'd think.
2) I don't think the senator flashed his card until after the officer had
arrested him. If I recall correctly, they were already in the presence of
another officer when Craig flashed the card and said something like "What do
you think about that?" So it's not likely the senator's card "set the cop
off."

 

[Adam Albright]

I believe the audio tape was released by police AFTER the story broke.
The person who wrote the original story has not said who leaked it, nor is
he likely to.

I found this more complete version of events:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0828071craig1.html

Page #8 is the start of the document Craig signed. Carefully read the
two lines with the red arrows. How Craig now can try to pretend he
didn't know what he was signing or admitting to by signing is mind
numbing. I don't think Perry Mason or even O J Simpson's attorneys
could get him out of this mess.

It only gets way worse on page #9.

Just think, this bozo was one of the clowns that write laws. What a
country we live in.

 

[DanS]

It's rather a specious argument to say that since there are bad cops
(which I don't deny), therefore Craig is innocent. That argument could
be used by anyone who has ever been arrested. As in, there are bad
cops, so OJ didn't do it.

That a pretty big step from my saying the details of this individual
incident are far from what was advertised (sensationalized) as lewd
behavior.

Maybe it's common practice to put your carryon luggage where Craig put
his.

Well as I said before, unless your in the handicapped stall, thats the
easiest place to put it for anyone.

I couldn't get a connection with placing your baggage there. So from the
cops experience, he knew that perverts did this. This does not mean noone
else does it. It's quite common I would say.

 

[DP]

That a pretty big step from my saying the details of this individual
incident are far from what was advertised (sensationalized) as lewd
behavior.

Like what? Every story I've ever seen about this described the situation
with the toe tapping, the foot touching, the running the fingers under the
stall, etc. What news reports did you see and how did they sensationalize
that?
(Besides, I think I was responding to whoever wrote "Many lie in their
written reports, not just a little,...." etc. If that wasn't you then I
wasn't replying to you. Sorry, I'm not going to review the thread to see who
said what. )

I couldn't get a connection with placing your baggage there. So from the
cops experience, he knew that perverts did this. This does not mean noone
else does it. It's quite common I would say.

And Craig wasn't popped for that. He was popped for the more intrusive
behavior once he'd settled his baggage and his ass in the stall. If someone
sticks his foot into my stall and/or starts running his hand under the stall
divider, I would hope I would have some legal way to prevent that behavior.

 

[DanS]

(Besides, I think I was responding to whoever wrote "Many lie in

their written reports, not just a little,...." etc. If that wasn't you
then I wasn't replying to you. Sorry, I'm not going to review the
thread to see who said what. )

No, that wasn't me. (And I wonder why wouldn't you take the 5 seconds to
look to see who did.)

And Craig wasn't popped for that. He was popped for the more intrusive
behavior once he'd settled his baggage and his ass in the stall.

And charged with a 'Disorderly Conduct' offense that is a catch-all for
when there's no specific crime to be charged with.

If someone sticks his foot into my stall and/or starts running his hand
under the stall divider, I would hope I would have some legal way to
prevent that behavior.

So, if you were in an airport and that happened to you, you would detain
the person, find a security guard or police officer, explain what you think
happened, convince that officer of what you thought it was, go through the
entire process of pressing charges, appear for court dates, etc....?

I doubt it. You'd be too busy trying to get home, or catching your flight.

 

[Adam Albright]

No, that wasn't me. (And I wonder why wouldn't you take the 5 seconds to
look to see who did.)

Probably was me. Cops DO make things up. If you want to call it
deliberate lying or just s t r e t c h i n g the truth it happens
constantly.

Another example. Many years back I don't even remember what year I was
on my way home during rush hour. Approached a busy intersection where
I usually turn, but turned a block sooner to avoid traffic. Wasn't
just trying to avoid the signal would have taken this side street for
about 6 blocks. Anyhow get pulled over. Cop says didn't you see the
sign at the school a block back? I say what sign? Cops says the one
that says reduce speed when children are present. I protest... what
children? You KNOW trying to argue with a cop just pisses them off, so
I just accept the ticket.

I drive home, then return the next morning. The "sign" was just a
post, no sign. Probably hadn't been any sign on the pole for months.
So I snap a photo.

Fast forward to my day in traffic court. I see my cop, typical smart
ass type. I see the judge pretty much takes whatever this jerk says
with a long string of guilty, guilty, guilty. Regular assembly line
justice.

My turn. I make sure I wait till the cop hangs himself. Says I didn't
slow down, he cites the sign. I simply say your honor, in my most
polite voice, maybe you would like to look at this. I hand him the
photo. Explain.

Judge gets beet red in the face. Asks the officer, is this true? Cop
barely at a whisper says yes your honor. Judge yells, LOUDER, what did
you say? The sign was missing judge cop meekly repeats. Judge bellows
even louder. Were there children present? Officer says no, didn't see
any your honor.

Obviously upset, the judge slams down his gavel, case dismissed. I
have all I can do to not say anything. I just step over to the clerk's
desk and pick up my license or bond card, I forget which. All the
while as I wait and then walk out of the court room this judge is
reading the riot act to this cop in front of all the remaining people,
about 100. Sweet.