Looking for DVD recorders...

S

Skyse Ezeor

Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the other
for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or shouldn't that
matter?

Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more? And will I need to make sure
they have the appropriate dirvers? I have done searches on Google for the
DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites any of you have.

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Thanks a bundle.
 
L

Lord Gazwad of Grantham

the straight-out said:
Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the
other for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or
shouldn't that matter?

Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more? And will I need to
make sure they have the appropriate dirvers? I have done searches on
Google for the DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites
any of you have.

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Thanks a bundle.

Why not use a VCR?

--
For my own part, I have never had a thought which I could not set down
in words with even more distinctness than that with which I conceived
it. There is, however, a class of fancies of exquisite delicacy which
are not thoughts, and to which as yet I have found it absolutely
impossible to adapt to language. These fancies arise in the soul, alas
how rarely. Only at epochs of most intense tranquillity, when the
bodily and mental health are in perfection. And at those weird points
of time, where the confines of the waking world blend with the world of
dreams. And so I captured this fancy, where all that we see, or seem,
is but a dream within a dream.
 
S

Skyse Ezeor

Lord Gazwad of Grantham (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
(e-mail address removed).
pus.and.mucus:
Why not use a VCR?

Could do, but it's busted. I tried cooking a toastie in it once. What DVD
drives have you got. Is it any good? And what medium do you recommend?

Do you know when DL/DS capability in medium and recorders is coming out?
 
A

amosf (Tim Fairchild)

Skyse Ezeor wrote something like:
Lord Gazwad of Grantham (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
(e-mail address removed).

Could do, but it's busted. I tried cooking a toastie in it once. What DVD
drives have you got. Is it any good? And what medium do you recommend?

Do you know when DL/DS capability in medium and recorders is coming out?

I have lite-on and LG, they both work fine with linux and windies... Well,
sometimes not quite so good with windies, but that's usually because of the
cruddy software that comes with them...
 
R

Ralph Wade Phillips

Howdy!

Skyse Ezeor said:
Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the other
for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or shouldn't that
matter?

Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more? And will I need to make sure
they have the appropriate dirvers? I have done searches on Google for the
DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites any of you have.

If by "two different DVD's" you mean "two different DRIVES", well,
for two computers, yes, unless you have a decent external unit on a fast
enough interface (and USB 1.1 ain't fast enough.)

Both drives, unless bought bare, will have software with them for
the Windows side. Dunno about Fedora/SUSE/Ubuntu - those, you might want to
check the appropriate newsgroups for recommendations as to drives and
software.

AND - it depends on what you're planning to do with them. Monster
size CDs for data storage? Self-created movies? Or *ahem* making backups
of DVDs that you've purchased?
I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

If you know enough to run those Linux flavors, it ought to be a walk
in the park.

RwP
 
R

Ralph Wade Phillips

Howdy!

Do you know when DL/DS capability in medium and recorders is coming out?

In recorders? About February 2005 is when I started seeing DL
drives.

In media? At that same time - I now have a 15 pack sitting sealed
in my living room for DVD+R DL B) Dunno about in your part of the
multiverse, though.

RwP
 
S

Skyse Ezeor

Ralph Wade Phillips (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
(e-mail address removed):
Howdy!



In recorders? About February 2005 is when I started seeing DL
drives.

Specifically double layered - double sided, is what I pointed to.
In media? At that same time - I now have a 15 pack sitting
sealed in my living room for DVD+R DL B) Dunno about in your part of
the multiverse, though.

UK
 
S

Skyse Ezeor

Ralph Wade Phillips (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
(e-mail address removed):
Howdy!



If by "two different DVD's" you mean "two different DRIVES",
well, for two computers, yes, unless you have a decent external unit
on a fast enough interface (and USB 1.1 ain't fast enough.)

Firewire or USB 2.0 for externals? Which would you go for WinLux?
Both drives, unless bought bare, will have software with them
for the Windows side. Dunno about Fedora/SUSE/Ubuntu - those, you
might want to check the appropriate newsgroups for recommendations as
to drives and software.

You mean each one is likely to have different software? Not universal? Damn,
and blast!
AND - it depends on what you're planning to do with them.
Monster size CDs for data storage? Self-created movies? Or *ahem*
making backups of DVDs that you've purchased?

All of the above. But initially I want to put video of my own creation with
various music I like then play them on my HiDef's and Plasma's over Xmas at
shindigs I'm holding.
If you know enough to run those Linux flavors, it ought to be
a walk in the park.

Let's hope it's not a kernel rebuilding exercise.

Cheers, Bud! Any brand preferences on both, while you're there?
 
S

Skyse Ezeor

amosf (Tim Fairchild) (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
(e-mail address removed):
Skyse Ezeor wrote something like:

(e-mail address removed).

I have lite-on and LG, they both work fine with linux and windies...
Well, sometimes not quite so good with windies, but that's usually
because of the cruddy software that comes with them...

Yeah, software is about the only thing that messes with my Windows boxes,
linux is another matter though, as that to can sometimes be problematic.

I like LG, all round OK products, Samsung are beginning to come up through
the rank and file too.

What media do you prefer?
 
L

Larry Qualig

Skyse said:
Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the other
for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or shouldn't that
matter?

Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more? And will I need to make sure
they have the appropriate dirvers? I have done searches on Google for the
DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites any of you have.

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Thanks a bundle.


I'm using a Sony DVD recorder (yeah-yeah, I know about the CD's with
the DRM stuff). The model is something like DRU-720A or something. I
bought it about a year ago at NewEgg.com for $74 and it came with a
free copy of Nero burning ROM. (Latest Windows version of Nero...
full-featured, not some stripped down demo.) They even give you black
and beige bezels so that the color matches your case.

The DVD supports all the DVD formats, DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD-RAM, CD-RW,
etc. It requires no special drivers (the generic ATAPI drivers work
perfectly). Just install it and power-up the machine. Work with both XP
and Mandriva 2005LE and Ubuntu.

Despite the DRM issue with Sony, this product actually works pretty
darn well. The recording speeds are fast too.
 
R

r.e.ballard

Skyse said:
Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the other
for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or shouldn't that
matter?

You can either get an internal DVD recorder or an external USB based
DVD recorder.
Both work fine with all of systems mentioned above. You will need to
install a usb-2 driver for Windows 98SE.

The drivers for XP and 2003 will be detected and configured during
installation. If you add it later, it should realized that you have
the DVD installed and configure itself to add the new software.

The Linux systems will all use modprobe during the boot-up cycle to
determine what devices are present and how they should be configured.

Last I checked - about a year ago - the USB-2 drivers for Linux were
still not "Hot Pluggable" - that is, you could not plug in and unplug
USB-2 drives without properly unmounting them first.

Windows reccomends that you use the "Remove Device" option (in your
system tray) before removing USB drives.

Typically, DVD "drives" are imaged, usually on some area of the hard
drive, then the image or preparation is copied to the media - either
"all at once" or "track-at-a-time".

Linux does not include tools that might be used for Piracy. Getting
the drivers for the DVD-CSS encryption scheme require that the software
be downloaded AFTER accepting a license agreement in which the user
agrees not to alter or modify the decoder and agrees not to use the
decoder to publish decrypted versions of the content stored on
commercial DVDs. Essentially, the DVD-CSS has provisions for only
permitting decryption in certain countries. A DVD recorded for the US
cannot be used in a DVD player in Japan, and vice versa. When the
DVD-Decoder is downloaded, some attempts are made to validate the
country and to make sure that the coder is configured for that country.

The decoder is available in several downloaded players, including the
downloadable version of RealPlayer for Linux.
Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more?

Actually, the DVD complies with a standard which has been published,
along with the player's compliance to ATAPI. These standards have been
published. In fact, many of them were first established and
implemented in Linux and Open Source.

The only thing that might be a bit confusing is that Microsoft has
tried to blurr the lines between driver, format, protocol, and
application. They provide a DVD-Writer with XP but you need to
purchase burner software for 2K, and 95SE. Their XP Writer function
has been integrated into applications like Windows Explorer - but lacks
a number of important features. The third party software has features
which may be less standard.

In Linux the "driver" for DVDs is broken out into it's component parts,
and those components are interfaced in standard ways. For example:

- the ATA driver - this converts IDE signals into the appropriate
signals for the device.

- the ATA-SCSI driver - this makes the ATA driver look like a
standard device.

- the SCSI to bdevswitch device - this makes the SCSI device look
like a generic
Linux "block mode" device. These devices include read, write, and
seek capabilities,
as well as, "flush", "mount", and "unmount".to make sure that
the operating
system doesn't try to write data to your DVD as you are
trying to eject it.

- the ISOfs formatter - this is a separate application which makes
sure that the
formatting of the media is appropriate to the device. There
are formatters for
DVDs, CDs, hard drives, even Windows drives. The only
restriction is NTFS,
which is appearantly very vulnerable to race conditions and
can be easily
corrupted. Some vendors offer both read/write support but
say "use at your
own risk" other only offer "read-only" access to make sure
that data is not
corrupted by Linux. In this case, any corrutpion is
Microsoft's.

- the Buffering engine - when writing CDs and DVDs, timing is
critical. Data cannot
be delayed at all. When you start the "burn", the system
must burn
an entire track at a time. Many recorders have the
buffering built into the
hard drive, but it's still critical that the entire track be
written to the
drive as quickly as possible - with not significant delays.

- the MPEG4 compression engine - If you want to record Video, you
probably want
to convert it to either MPEG or MPEG4. The standard for
DVDs is MPEG4.
The software to compress this video can also be used to set
the resolution
of both the input and output, Better compression tools
include dithering to
convert NTSC resolution into HD, and vice-versa. This is
very important if you
are converting handy-cam content into a DVD.

- the DVD-CSS encryption engine - This is the piece you actually
have to download.
DVD-CSS provides encryption for specific country codes.
Different countries
have different laws regarding censorship, ratings, and
other "filtering" of content.
Normally, you can get encryption for your own country.
Getting international
versions which support multiple countries may require
different codes. Some
DVD drives include their own DVD-CSS chip, but Linux will
probably not use that.

- the DES encryption engine - The DVD-CSS encryption engine uses the
DES
encryption engine usually in 48 bit mode. Most United
States DES
engines support up to 64 bit encryption and triple DES
(which is actually
just breaking the 128 bit key into two keys and then using
a pipline like -
"cat file | descrypt key1 | descrept key2 > cryptfile"

- the DVD "directory" - DVDs usually have some presentation or menu
options,
these are provided using a directory builder. It's
similar to building a Web site.

- Packaging - Linux provides all of these components within their
libraries
(DVD-CSS is more like a "plug-in"). Each of the core
features listed above
is available as command line executables, but they can also
be compiled
into different packages. In addition, Java-2 also
provides these core functions
from the block mode interface on up. You can combine
these into a single
command line application, or into a fully loaded
commercial application such
as RealPlayer as done..

And will I need to make sure
they have the appropriate dirvers?

As described above, all of the drivers and components are either "in
there" or
can quickly be added. The DVD-CSS portion can also be installed very
easily,
but you need to accept the terms set out by the organization that
licenses DVD
technology.

If all you want to do is save a "Data" DVD, there is nothing extra
required.
If you want to Publish "Video" DVDs, there are contracts to sign and
MPAA agreements to accept and/or sign, there may also be some money
involved, depending on what you are distributing, and to whom. Keep in
mind that Piracy of Videos or Film carries much more severe fines and
prison terms than piracy of audio or text. The fines can be as high as
$250,000 per offense, and as high as 15 years in prison. One of the
reasons for requiring that you download the DVD-CSS software, is
because it makes it easier to identify and prosecute Video pirates.
I have done searches on Google for the
DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites any of you have.

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Actually, it's not really that bad. All you need to do is plug in your
DVD-Burner and boot up Linux. The system will find it and make the
appropriate configurations.

Unless you really want to create your own special applications or
videos, you probably only need to download a DVD-Player such as
RealAudio for Linux (there are others available as well) - most include
some form of video service as well.

In fact, I had to download a special DVD player for my XP system, to
get the right
country code on my DVD-CSS decoder. Once it was installed, the other
players worked as well.
 
R

ray

Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the other
for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or shouldn't that
matter?

Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more? And will I need to make sure
they have the appropriate dirvers? I have done searches on Google for the
DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites any of you have.

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Thanks a bundle.

You will probably want to either buy two DVD units or a USB external one
to move from machine to machine. This is NOT going to be a nightmare -
just go to your local BestBuy, OfficeMax, CircuitCity or whatever and get
the cheapest one you like. It will work. No drivers, no muss, no fuss, no
bother - this ain't MS-land. My drive is a $39 (after rebate) MadDog unit
I got from OfficMax last year - cheapest one I could find.
 
R

relic

Skyse said:
Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the
other for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or
shouldn't that matter?

Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more? And will I need to
make sure they have the appropriate dirvers? I have done searches on
Google for the DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites
any of you have.

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Thanks a bundle.


I bur a lot of DVD's and I've tried several, I now buy only Plextor burners.

Media: TDK, Memorex, and Fuji are the worst! Sony and Taiyo Yuden are
marginal, Verbatim and Ritek are the best. Rebranded Ritek's, "Dysan" are
being tested now.
 
S

Skyse Ezeor

relic (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
[email protected]:
I bur a lot of DVD's and I've tried several, I now buy only Plextor
burners.

Plexter? I understood sony was favored. [all change!] :-D

Nero still favorite for burning s/w?
Media: TDK, Memorex, and Fuji are the worst! Sony and Taiyo Yuden are
marginal, Verbatim and Ritek are the best. Rebranded Ritek's, "Dysan"
are being tested now.

Cheers boss! From your experience, how often can you rerecord on them?

How far off is double layered double sided would you say?
 
S

Skyse Ezeor

Skyse Ezeor (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
[email protected]:
Hi!

I'm looking for a DVD recorder, one for my XP/2003 server box and the
other for my multi-boot 98SE/W2k, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu box, or
shouldn't that matter?

Will I need to buy two different DVD's or more? And will I need to
make sure they have the appropriate dirvers? I have done searches on
Google for the DVD and medium but I would like opinions on favourites
any of you have.

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Thanks a bundle.

To all others who responded... ta!
 
R

relic

Skyse said:
relic (e-mail address removed), wrote in message
[email protected]:
I burn a lot of DVD's and I've tried several, I now buy only Plextor
burners.

Plextor? I understood sony was favored. [all change!] :-D

I never did like any kind of Sony products. I bought some store-brand media
that were made by Sony and found them to be of marginal quality. I settled
on Plextor because of their burning quality and their speed. The IDE version
runs at UDMA-4 and they make a SATA drive too.

I haven't tried Pioneer, but I hear good things from others about them. BTC
is marketing one using the Emprex brand name that seems to be both cheap and
good.
Nero still favorite for burning s/w?

It depends on what you're burning. If it's DVD Movies, Nero gets
disqualified pretty quick. In fact, I don't like Nero for _any_ kind of DVD
burning; I really only use it for CD burning. 99% of my DVD burning is done
with VSO's CopyToDVD. (If you need a ripper, it doesn't include one. Check
1ClickDVDCopy, it includes a CopyToDVD Light.)

Nero does have one good DVD Movie product; Nero Recode. It's too slow to use
a lot, but it is excellent at recovering a bad copy of a DVD Movie.
Cheers boss! From your experience, how often can you rerecord on them?

I don't use too many -RW's, DVD-R(+R) are cheap. The RW's I have in stock
have only been reused maybe a dozen times.
How far off is double layered double sided would you say?

Haven't seen any blanks yet. One sided Ritek-DL's are now less than $2.
 
D

DelphiDude

I just know this is going to be a ruddy nightmare.

Thanks a bundle.

Shouldn't matter unless you are copying movies. I have one XP and two
Debian boxes and any of them work with my Sony and Memorex burners. I can
mix and match drives between OS's and neither one cares.

I usually use the Linux burners for backups because it is quick - drag,
drop, burn. I usually even backup XP over samba. With Nero on XP, it
does just as good a burn job but it is click, pulldown, doubleclick,
backup, drag, oops, dump, swear, blink at sudden popup, drink swig of Dr
Pepper, look for right icon, cross fingers, and burn.

DD
 
W

Weatherlawyer

You can either get an internal DVD recorder or an external USB based
DVD recorder.
Both work fine with all of systems mentioned above. You will need to
install a usb-2 driver for Windows 98SE.

The drivers for XP and 2003 will be detected and configured during
installation. If you add it later, it should realized that you have
the DVD installed and configure itself to add the new software.

The Linux systems will all use modprobe during the boot-up cycle to
determine what devices are present and how they should be configured.

Last I checked - about a year ago - the USB-2 drivers for Linux were
still not "Hot Pluggable" - that is, you could not plug in and unplug
USB-2 drives without properly unmounting them first.

Windows reccomends that you use the "Remove Device" option (in your
system tray) before removing USB drives.

Typically, DVD "drives" are imaged, usually on some area of the hard
drive, then the image or preparation is copied to the media - either
"all at once" or "track-at-a-time".

Linux does not include tools that might be used for Piracy. Getting
the drivers for the DVD-CSS encryption scheme require that the software
be downloaded AFTER accepting a license agreement in which the user
agrees not to alter or modify the decoder and agrees not to use the
decoder to publish decrypted versions of the content stored on
commercial DVDs. Essentially, the DVD-CSS has provisions for only
permitting decryption in certain countries. A DVD recorded for the US
cannot be used in a DVD player in Japan, and vice versa. When the
DVD-Decoder is downloaded, some attempts are made to validate the
country and to make sure that the coder is configured for that country.

The decoder is available in several downloaded players, including the
downloadable version of RealPlayer for Linux.


Actually, the DVD complies with a standard which has been published,
along with the player's compliance to ATAPI. These standards have been
published. In fact, many of them were first established and
implemented in Linux and Open Source.

The only thing that might be a bit confusing is that Microsoft has
tried to blurr the lines between driver, format, protocol, and
application. They provide a DVD-Writer with XP but you need to
purchase burner software for 2K, and 95SE. Their XP Writer function
has been integrated into applications like Windows Explorer - but lacks
a number of important features. The third party software has features
which may be less standard.

In Linux the "driver" for DVDs is broken out into it's component parts,
and those components are interfaced in standard ways. For example:

- the ATA driver - this converts IDE signals into the appropriate
signals for the device.

- the ATA-SCSI driver - this makes the ATA driver look like a
standard device.

- the SCSI to bdevswitch device - this makes the SCSI device look
like a generic
Linux "block mode" device. These devices include read, write, and
seek capabilities,
as well as, "flush", "mount", and "unmount".to make sure that
the operating
system doesn't try to write data to your DVD as you are
trying to eject it.

- the ISOfs formatter - this is a separate application which makes
sure that the
formatting of the media is appropriate to the device. There
are formatters for
DVDs, CDs, hard drives, even Windows drives. The only
restriction is NTFS,
which is appearantly very vulnerable to race conditions and
can be easily
corrupted. Some vendors offer both read/write support but
say "use at your
own risk" other only offer "read-only" access to make sure
that data is not
corrupted by Linux. In this case, any corrutpion is
Microsoft's.

- the Buffering engine - when writing CDs and DVDs, timing is
critical. Data cannot
be delayed at all. When you start the "burn", the system
must burn
an entire track at a time. Many recorders have the
buffering built into the
hard drive, but it's still critical that the entire track be
written to the
drive as quickly as possible - with not significant delays.

- the MPEG4 compression engine - If you want to record Video, you
probably want
to convert it to either MPEG or MPEG4. The standard for
DVDs is MPEG4.
The software to compress this video can also be used to set
the resolution
of both the input and output, Better compression tools
include dithering to
convert NTSC resolution into HD, and vice-versa. This is
very important if you
are converting handy-cam content into a DVD.

- the DVD-CSS encryption engine - This is the piece you actually
have to download.
DVD-CSS provides encryption for specific country codes.
Different countries
have different laws regarding censorship, ratings, and
other "filtering" of content.
Normally, you can get encryption for your own country.
Getting international
versions which support multiple countries may require
different codes. Some
DVD drives include their own DVD-CSS chip, but Linux will
probably not use that.

- the DES encryption engine - The DVD-CSS encryption engine uses the
DES
encryption engine usually in 48 bit mode. Most United
States DES
engines support up to 64 bit encryption and triple DES
(which is actually
just breaking the 128 bit key into two keys and then using
a pipline like -
"cat file | descrypt key1 | descrept key2 > cryptfile"

- the DVD "directory" - DVDs usually have some presentation or menu
options,
these are provided using a directory builder. It's
similar to building a Web site.

- Packaging - Linux provides all of these components within their
libraries
(DVD-CSS is more like a "plug-in"). Each of the core
features listed above
is available as command line executables, but they can also
be compiled
into different packages. In addition, Java-2 also
provides these core functions
from the block mode interface on up. You can combine
these into a single
command line application, or into a fully loaded
commercial application such
as RealPlayer as done..



As described above, all of the drivers and components are either "in
there" or
can quickly be added. The DVD-CSS portion can also be installed very
easily,
but you need to accept the terms set out by the organization that
licenses DVD
technology.

If all you want to do is save a "Data" DVD, there is nothing extra
required.
If you want to Publish "Video" DVDs, there are contracts to sign and
MPAA agreements to accept and/or sign, there may also be some money
involved, depending on what you are distributing, and to whom. Keep in
mind that Piracy of Videos or Film carries much more severe fines and
prison terms than piracy of audio or text. The fines can be as high as
$250,000 per offense, and as high as 15 years in prison. One of the
reasons for requiring that you download the DVD-CSS software, is
because it makes it easier to identify and prosecute Video pirates.


Actually, it's not really that bad. All you need to do is plug in your
DVD-Burner and boot up Linux. The system will find it and make the
appropriate configurations.

Unless you really want to create your own special applications or
videos, you probably only need to download a DVD-Player such as
RealAudio for Linux (there are others available as well) - most include
some form of video service as well.

In fact, I had to download a special DVD player for my XP system, to
get the right
country code on my DVD-CSS decoder. Once it was installed, the other
players worked as well.
You are obviously a guru and I wish I could understand half of what you
wrote.

It would appear that Sony is trying to set itself up as the Japanese
Microsoft. Interesting that they too started out by stealing
someone-else's good idea.

It is a good thing that they are one of the few non US interests with
musicians under contract. They have shot their own legs out from under
them and put the whole planet on alert at long last. I hope they bleed
to death.

If it were not for Linux, everything would have fallen to the digitalis
pushers by now. May they rot in hell, Sony-side down!

So my Pioneer-made OEM, no software optical drives are all the better
for not having come with software? That has made my day!
 

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