Is Vista going away?

C

cranheim

I was speaking with a friend who heard Microsoft was working day and night
developing an operating system to replace Vista because of all the
compatibility problems with many programs and I/O drivers. Is there any
truth to this, or is it just a rumor by some disgruntled Vista user? I was
planning on getting Vista on my next PC, which I will need in the near
future. Charles Ranheim
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

cranheim said:
I was speaking with a friend who heard Microsoft was working day and night
developing an operating system to replace Vista because of all the
compatibility problems with many programs and I/O drivers. Is there any
truth to this, or is it just a rumor by some disgruntled Vista user? I was
planning on getting Vista on my next PC, which I will need in the near
future. Charles Ranheim


As soon as an OS is released, the guys work day and night on the next
incarnation.. just the way things are..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
R

Rick Rogers

Rumor. Microsoft is indeed working on the next operating system, Windows 7,
but the chief reason for its moving along is that Microsoft doesn't want to
go 5 years between releases again.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
 
M

Mark L. Ferguson

Yes, they will definitely QUIT selling Vista
(when people quit buying it, or Hell freezes over, whichever comes first) :/
 
R

Rick Rogers

I would add too that the next version of Windows is even less likely to be
compatible with older software, and driver production by hardware
manufacturers will likely be far behind as usual.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

Windows Vista is a state-of-the art operating system
and there are no plans to retire it in the foreseeable future.
If you wish to wait for the next Windows operating system,
it will probably become available in early 2010.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience -
Windows Vista Enthusiast

---------------------------------------------------------------

:

I was speaking with a friend who heard Microsoft was working day and night
developing an operating system to replace Vista because of all the
compatibility problems with many programs and I/O drivers. Is there any
truth to this, or is it just a rumor by some disgruntled Vista user? I was
planning on getting Vista on my next PC, which I will need in the near
future. Charles Ranheim
 
A

Adam Albright

I was speaking with a friend who heard Microsoft was working day and night
developing an operating system to replace Vista because of all the
compatibility problems with many programs and I/O drivers. Is there any
truth to this, or is it just a rumor by some disgruntled Vista user? I was
planning on getting Vista on my next PC, which I will need in the near
future. Charles Ranheim

The disgruntled guys are Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer who put on a
happy face in public but are plenty steamed how screwed up Vista
turned out and the poor reception it has received especially from
businesses that are NOT upgrading. Fact: Vista has been out for over a
year and 84% of people running a prior version HAVE NOT UPGRADED.

What does that suggest?

Of course we got the retard squad headed by the resident weasel and
all around fool Frank trying to get everyone to buy Vista because this
buffoon actually thinks his daily antics and stupid attacks help
Microsoft.
 
A

Adam Albright

Windows Vista is a state-of-the art operating system
and there are no plans to retire it in the foreseeable future.
If you wish to wait for the next Windows operating system,
it will probably become available in early 2010.

Which Carey deliberately forgot to mention is WAY AHEAD of schedule
considering Vista just came out. Both Gates and Ballmer know Vista is
basically a flop so the need to rush forward on Windows, version 7.

Before the birth of Christ to the late 1800's bloodletting was
considered "state of the art" medicine. In a similar vain some Rubes
think UAC is state of the art computer security. <snicker>
 
D

Denny

Carey said:
Windows Vista is a state-of-the art operating system

.... With more bugs, stupid programming decisions, slow speed for simple
tasks, lack of rudimentary features that were featured in previous
versions and incompatibility issues than any Microsoft product that I'm
aware of.

- Has there been a bigger MS misstep ever than Vista? Serious question.
 
G

Gumby

Windows Vista is a state-of-the art operating system
and there are no plans to retire it in the foreseeable future.
If you wish to wait for the next Windows operating system,
it will probably become available in early 2010.

When will we get a version of Windows nthat is a real gamer's OS? Why can't
they put in a game function that shuts down all the background crap and
services when playing games?
 
N

Not Me

Denny said:
... With more bugs, stupid programming decisions, slow speed for simple
tasks, lack of rudimentary features that were featured in previous
versions and incompatibility issues than any Microsoft product that I'm
aware of.

- Has there been a bigger MS misstep ever than Vista? Serious question.

IMHO, NO.
Every previous version of Windows felt like an improvement to me.
This one feels like a kludge and a step backwards.
I complained throughout BETA but MS didn't pay any attention, they put out
what they wanted.
It looks/acts/feels like it was written by AOL programmers....why would you
want to do THAT??
 
A

Adam Albright

... With more bugs, stupid programming decisions, slow speed for simple
tasks, lack of rudimentary features that were featured in previous
versions and incompatibility issues than any Microsoft product that I'm
aware of.

- Has there been a bigger MS misstep ever than Vista? Serious question.

Vista certainly in contention for the worst version of Windows ever.
Of course we had ME and BOB don't forget. I think Vista wins hands
down for taking the longest time to develop and ending up with so many
bugs in the released version. <snicker>
 
S

Steve Thackery

Microsoft are always working "day and night" on the successor to their
current OS. There is nothing new in this. They make money by selling
software.

However, even the most "sensibly optimistic" estimates put a
release-to-manufacture date for Windows 7 sometime in 2010. Vista was
rushed out because they had to abandon Longhorn (XP's successor) in 2004 and
start over again. They aren't going to risk launching two half-baked
operating systems in rapid succession in the current, highly competitive
environment. It would be commercial suicide. Windows 7 WILL be developed
quickly, but it WON'T be rushed out half-finished.

The question of whether to get Vista on your next PC is slightly separate.

USER INTERFACE
===========
Vista introduces some great new technology "under the hood", but sadly the
user experience isn't much different from XP. The user interface is less
patronising than XP (no more Fisher Price colour scheme, no more "My" in
front of everything, and the appalling standard sound scheme has gone). On
the other hand, the basic operations are much the same - there is nothing
remotely radical or futuristic in Vista.

Indeed, some people think bits of the UI are worse than XP - mostly
revolving around changes which have been made for the sake of it, rather
than improving things.

The underlying technology in Vista allows new features in the UI -
transparent task bars, scaleable icons, and the new 3D animated task
switcher, for instance. To be honest, though, they really aren't that
impressive. Who needs transparent task bars, really? If you like them,
fine, but it's not the sort of thing you'd spend loads of money on. If you
don't like them, luckily you can turn them off. Most people think the fancy
animated task switcher is pretty useless at actually choosing and switching
to another window easily and quickly.

On balance, I think the UI in Vista is better than XP's, and I prefer it.
But it's really nothing special or radical.

RELIABILITY
=========
Don't worry about the reports you read here of Vista being buggy and
unstable. It simply isn't true PROVIDED you're running it on modern
hardware, with good quality drivers. Bearing in mind you're talking about a
brand new PC, you shouldn't have any problems.

My experience of running Vista on modern hardware with good drivers is that
it NEVER blue screens, freezes or misbehaves in any way. It's better than
XP.

Most of the moans in this forum come from teenage hackers and hobbyists who
can't resist trying to shoehorn Vista into a five-year-old machine.

COMPATIBILITY
============
Vista is has better backward-compatibility with old applications than most
people realise (because they don't bother to explore the compatibility
features, they just moan in this forum instead).

However, some old applications simply aren't compatible with Vista's new
security model, and they aren't supported. If you rely on applications like
this, you may well be able to patch or update them from the manufacturer's
website for Vista compatibility. It really isn't that common, though.

Do a little research to find out if you'll have a problem in this area. I
bet you won't.

HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS AND PERFORMANCE
==================================
Most professional benchtesting finds Vista to be slightly slower than XP in
most areas. Mostly this is due to the new security layers in the OS. On
the other hand, hardware is getting faster all the time, so a new Vista
machine will be faster than a two-year-old XP machine for the same price
point.

There seems to be one golden rule for Vista - make damn sure you've got 2G
of RAM. If that's sorted, you'll be fine.

GAMING
=======
I don't do any gaming with either XP or Vista, so cannot comment.

SUMMARY
==========
Personally I'd go for Vista every time, although I use XP every day on my
laptop. For day-to-day use, both are fine. If you are going for low-cost
hardware, I'd probably choose XP. If you're getting a decent 2GHz+
processor and 2G of RAM, I'd choose Vista.

Either option will let you upgrade to Windows 7 when it comes out.

Hope this has been of some help - bearing in mind that this thread will no
doubt be smothered in noise from our "village idiots".

SteveT
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

I was speaking with a friend who heard Microsoft was working day and night
developing an operating system to replace Vista


Yes. Microsoft is *always* working hard to produce the next version of
all their products, just as is every other software company. If they
don't, they will shortly have no potential customers, have no product
to sell, and will soon go out of business. This is the nature of
selling software: after a while your existing market gets saturated,
and unless you have a new version to sell, you're history.

because of all the
compatibility problems with many programs and I/O drivers.


That is certainly *not* the reason.

First, regarding "compatibility problems with many programs": It is
extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make real improvements in
an operating system, and still keep it compatible with every older
program. Progress always means a certain loss of compatibility.

That said, in my experience, Vista has been very compatible with older
programs that are not too old. I found that there only two older
utilities that I ran under Windows XP that didn't run under Vista, and
they were very minor--I readily did without them. And whenever such
compatibility issue arise, the vendors of the incompatible problems
almost always work very hard to get new compatible versions of the
programs on the market. It's clearly in their interest to do so.

That's not to say that every older program works under Vista, of
course. Clearly some do not. If you want to be sure you won't have to
replace any of your applications, first download and run the free
Microsoft Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor at
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradeadvisor.mspx
or http://tinyurl.com/3b27j6


Second, regarding driver issues: I/O drivers are the responsibility of
the I/O device manufacturers. Microsoft doesn't write them.

Exactly the same situation occurs with every new operating system, and
there's absolutely nothing special in this regard about Vista. Each
manufacturer of printers (as well as other devices: scanners, etc.)
decides for itself whether or not to incur the trouble and expense of
developing new drivers for its older products. If the product is in
current production, it probably will develop them. If it's a little
older, it may or not. And if it's old enough, they will probably
decide that's it doesn't make economic sense to develop a driver for
the new operating system.

No printer manufacturer will sell you a printer with a guarantee that
it will work with today's operating system and also with all new
operating systems that may be released in the future.

So whenever you buy a device like a printer or scanner, buy it with
the realization that although it may work with today's operating
system, it may or may not work with tomorrow's. For many people, the
lack of needed drivers for older hardware is a factor that stops them
from upgrading their operating system. And before upgrading,
*everyone* should make sure that they know whether all their hardware
is supported in the new operating system.


Is there any
truth to this, or is it just a rumor by some disgruntled Vista user?



It's entirely rumor. What your friend has heard is FUD.

I was
planning on getting Vista on my next PC, which I will need in the near
future.



Your choice of course. If the question were whether to upgrade your
old computer to Vista, my advice to most people is usually no. But
Vista works just fine, has many advantages over XP, and for a new
computer, to me there's no question that you should get the current
operating system, not yesterday's.

Just make sure that you get adequate hardware (in particular be sure
to get at least 2GB of RAM), not the minimum that Microsoft says Vista
needs, and that you are prepared to spend some time and effort
learning and getting accustomed to the differences between XP and
Vista.
 
P

Phisherman

I was speaking with a friend who heard Microsoft was working day and night
developing an operating system to replace Vista because of all the
compatibility problems with many programs and I/O drivers. Is there any
truth to this, or is it just a rumor by some disgruntled Vista user? I was
planning on getting Vista on my next PC, which I will need in the near
future. Charles Ranheim


Of course Microsoft is working on the next O/S. Hopefully it will be
easier to upgrade and/or have a lower-cost "Lite" version. There are
many older PCs. both business and home, that simply don't have the
hardware required to run Vista.
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

Phisherman said:
Of course Microsoft is working on the next O/S. Hopefully it will be
easier to upgrade and/or have a lower-cost "Lite" version. There are
many older PCs. both business and home, that simply don't have the
hardware required to run Vista.


As there were a good few older PCs back in 2002 which wouldn't run XP..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
X

xfile

Many replies, skillfully, avoided the "because of" part of your question and
downplayed the resentment in a similar fashion they downplayed potential
efforts and risks when making recommendations.

You can make your own judgment by searching the net for the official public
messages delivered by the company as a usual corporate communication means.
My view is that the company, thankfully, acknowledged that they need to
resolve those "unexpected" resentment from business and consumer as soon as
possible. I am glad that the company is not as blind and deaf as some of
their channel partners and supporters in this newsgroup.

To summarize if one should use Vista for practical reasons, my view is that
it's not worth the efforts and risks, even they may be minimum.

One poster has listed (or pasted) 100 reasons for using Vista, but that is
not really necessary; in fact, a few critical, sensible, and comprehendible
features will be more than enough.

Look back into history, remember moving from command lines to GUI and
mice-based interface? A breakthrough for mass end-user adoption, but
technologically speaking, nothing under the hood was dramatically changed.
Moving to long file name is another simple but meaningful feature for which
end user without any technical knowledge can immediately realize its
benefits. Another driver of adoption. Moving to NT platform for stability,
again, is easy to understand.

Now the question is, are there any compelling, sensible, and meaningful
features in Vista that are similar to the above listed?

If one says Yes then go ahead. But I don't see any and I know that I am not
alone. Will the *enhanced* security eliminate the needs of using any
security measurements and safety practice that already in place or will be
needed? My answer is, No. Notice that MS is also selling OneCare at the
same time? How ironic!

So you have to ask, why you want to go through even a slice of trouble or
risk for something has no tangible benefit for you?

If you like to play with computers, that is absolutely fine. We all have
our hobbies and don't always buy things for rational reasons. But if you
are looking for justifications, I failed to see any. Save your time and
money for buying and learning something that will produce tangible benefits
for you.

Will Windows 7 do better? I don't know but if it cannot produce benefits,
at least, try not to produce burdens. Not everyone works as a computer tech
and has all the time to spend on and to learn nothing but an OS. This
somehow is incomprehensible by geeks and techies in the IT field.
 
C

Canuck57

Ken Blake said:
Yes. Microsoft is *always* working hard to produce the next version of
all their products, just as is every other software company. If they
don't, they will shortly have no potential customers, have no product
to sell, and will soon go out of business. This is the nature of
selling software: after a while your existing market gets saturated,
and unless you have a new version to sell, you're history.




That is certainly *not* the reason.

First, regarding "compatibility problems with many programs": It is
extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make real improvements in
an operating system, and still keep it compatible with every older
program. Progress always means a certain loss of compatibility.

Microsoft does not understand it's own API any more. Poorly thought out and
not documented very well.
That said, in my experience, Vista has been very compatible with older
programs that are not too old. I found that there only two older
utilities that I ran under Windows XP that didn't run under Vista, and
they were very minor--I readily did without them. And whenever such
compatibility issue arise, the vendors of the incompatible problems
almost always work very hard to get new compatible versions of the
programs on the market. It's clearly in their interest to do so.
Cha-ching. Buy Vista and have to upgrade everything because every 3 years
the API changes. Standing on quicksand has about the same stability.
That's not to say that every older program works under Vista, of
course. Clearly some do not. If you want to be sure you won't have to
replace any of your applications, first download and run the free
Microsoft Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor at
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradeadvisor.mspx
or http://tinyurl.com/3b27j6

That is true. Much is a preature writeoff.
Second, regarding driver issues: I/O drivers are the responsibility of
the I/O device manufacturers. Microsoft doesn't write them.

Users fault eh? Unstable driver API. The world must adapt to MS. Not MS
to the world, ya right.

Exactly the same situation occurs with every new operating system, and
there's absolutely nothing special in this regard about Vista. Each
manufacturer of printers (as well as other devices: scanners, etc.)
decides for itself whether or not to incur the trouble and expense of
developing new drivers for its older products. If the product is in
current production, it probably will develop them. If it's a little
older, it may or not. And if it's old enough, they will probably
decide that's it doesn't make economic sense to develop a driver for
the new operating system.

My printer works great with Linux and XP.
No printer manufacturer will sell you a printer with a guarantee that
it will work with today's operating system and also with all new
operating systems that may be released in the future.

True, MS-Windows is just too unstable. Vista today, defunct for Win7
alreayd before SP1 is out. And no sign of real fixes either.
So whenever you buy a device like a printer or scanner, buy it with
the realization that although it may work with today's operating
system, it may or may not work with tomorrow's. For many people, the
lack of needed drivers for older hardware is a factor that stops them
from upgrading their operating system. And before upgrading,
*everyone* should make sure that they know whether all their hardware
is supported in the new operating system.

Linux does this better.
Your choice of course. If the question were whether to upgrade your
old computer to Vista, my advice to most people is usually no. But
Vista works just fine, has many advantages over XP, and for a new
computer, to me there's no question that you should get the current
operating system, not yesterday's.

Good advice, Vista on old computers is asking for issues. Even new ones.
Just make sure that you get adequate hardware (in particular be sure
to get at least 2GB of RAM), not the minimum that Microsoft says Vista
needs, and that you are prepared to spend some time and effort
learning and getting accustomed to the differences between XP and
Vista.

Good again. I would say 3GB for 32 bit, 4-8 for 64 bit. Dual proc at
least. And yes on the learning. Menus seem scrambled.
 

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