Is it worth keeping your CPU as cool as possible?

[Random Person]

Hello all. I am unsure how much effort I should spend in making my CPU
as cool as possible. It is an AMD XP 2500+ "Barton" 333MHz FSB
processor.

The CPU temperature whilst idle is 49'C, my board temperature is 36'C.
The ambient temperature now is in the low 20's. Sometimes when my case
is closed, and I am doing CPU-intensive tasks, I have to shut down my
computer because the CPU temperature exceeded 70'C. Very disruptive!
Because of this, I bought 2 80cm case fans and will install them soon.

All the fans present in my system at the moment are:
1) 1 fan on my Radeon 9800 Pro.
2) 1 fan on my Abit NF7 motherboard.
3) 1 fan on the CPU itself.
4) 1 fan sucking air into the PSU (Antec Truepower 350W) from inside
the case.
5) 1 fan blowing air from the PSU out.

At the moment the only way air gets blown in/out from the case is via
the PSU fan #5.

Is my idling temperature normal?

Will having heat problems with the CPU cause it to have a shorter
lifespan? Would the dopants in the semiconductor start diffusing around
too much at high temperatures?

For my system, what would you recommend the peak/equilibrium CPU
temperature to be (after say several hours of CPU-intensive work)?

What would be the absolute maximum temperature my CPU should go to
before I damage it?

Thanks.

 

[kony]

Hello all. I am unsure how much effort I should spend in making my CPU
as cool as possible.

Absolutely none.
Keep it cool enough to be stable and promote acceptible
lifespan. In other words, try to keep it below 65C.

It is an AMD XP 2500+ "Barton" 333MHz FSB
processor.

The CPU temperature whilst idle is 49'C, my board temperature is 36'C.
The ambient temperature now is in the low 20's. Sometimes when my case
is closed, and I am doing CPU-intensive tasks, I have to shut down my
computer because the CPU temperature exceeded 70'C. Very disruptive!
Because of this, I bought 2 80cm case fans and will install them soon.

All the fans present in my system at the moment are:
1) 1 fan on my Radeon 9800 Pro.
2) 1 fan on my Abit NF7 motherboard.
3) 1 fan on the CPU itself.
4) 1 fan sucking air into the PSU (Antec Truepower 350W) from inside
the case.
5) 1 fan blowing air from the PSU out.

At the moment the only way air gets blown in/out from the case is via
the PSU fan #5.

Is my idling temperature normal?

Yes but with what heatsink?
Does your case have most obstructed air intake and exhaust
paths or are they partially blocked by stamped-in-metal
grills or mere holes?

Will having heat problems with the CPU cause it to have a shorter
lifespan? Would the dopants in the semiconductor start diffusing around
too much at high temperatures?

Not significantly so at 70C, that's more of a stability
issue.

For my system, what would you recommend the peak/equilibrium CPU
temperature to be (after say several hours of CPU-intensive work)?

Forget about "CPU-intensive work" and run a proper stress
test like Prime95's Torture Test for at least 30 minutes.
This will provide a known load near enough to peak possible,
as other "work" can have other bottlenecks which make any
particular temp uncertain. It could be that your work comes
near a Prime95 value but a standard method of determination
is useful.

What would be the absolute maximum temperature my CPU should go to
before I damage it?

Forget about damage, focus on stability. It will be
instable long before it's damaged, at a significantly lower
temp. To that extent, Prime95 will produce errors if CPU
gets too hot. A Barton 2500 is not very hard to keep cool,
I would assess the adequacy of the heatsink, and if it seems
good enough, perhaps remove it, clean off it and the CPU
core and apply a tiny bit of thermal compound then
reinstall. Then look at the case airflow intake & exhaust.
You should put at least one (more) exahust fan on the rear
below the power supply. This is a standard AMD builder's
recommendation and the system should never have been ran
without this level of cooling in place... "level" meaning
there are certainly other ways to move air in and out of a
case but it should not have only the power supply exhaust
fan to move air.

 

[Random Person]

Hi Kony, thanks for your input.

"Yes but with what heatsink? "

I am using the stock AMD 2500+ cooler.

"Does your case have most obstructed air intake and exhaust
paths or are they partially blocked by stamped-in-metal
grills or mere holes?"

The back of my case has a stamped grille (enough space for 2 80cm
fans), the front has barely noticeable holes. There is 1 mounting for a
fan in the front, but with such holes I don't think it would be worth
it.

"Forget about "CPU-intensive work" and run a proper stress
test like Prime95's Torture Test for at least 30 minutes."

I'll do that tonight. Too bad the test doesn't have a CPU temperature
log!


"...apply a tiny bit of thermal compound then
reinstall. "

When I got my thermal paste, I made the mistake of emptying the tube on
the processor :O


"Then look at the case airflow intake & exhaust.
You should put at least one (more) exahust fan on the rear
below the power supply."

The airflow in my case is pretty obstructed. Apart from my Radeon 9800
Pro, I have a SB Audigy card and a PCI/IDE card. I've got 4 IDE cables
running around inside!

I'll also try installing those 2 80cm fans and see what happens.

 

[MrGrumpy]

I'm using same cpu/psu but with a lowly 5200 card, which includes temp
controlled fan
But ally case, two 80mm blowers + 80mm exhaust
2*sata + 2*ide, round ide cables
Currently 31c case, 48c diode, 42c cpu, 37c sata hd, 41c ide
Using coolermaster cpu cooler/fan, which is temp controlled
Sys runs 24/7
Personally I've found stock coolers to be noisey/inefficient my coolermaster
cost less than £10

 

[Martin]

"...apply a tiny bit of thermal compound then
reinstall. "

When I got my thermal paste, I made the mistake of emptying the tube on
the processor :O

Only a (very?) thin film of thermal paste is required.

Too much will have the opposite effect of insulating the CPU and not
assisting the transfer of heat from it to the heatsink/fan.
Clean the CPU if it's literally covered in thermal paste.

Martin.

 

[kony]

Hi Kony, thanks for your input.

"Yes but with what heatsink? "

I am using the stock AMD 2500+ cooler.

"Does your case have most obstructed air intake and exhaust
paths or are they partially blocked by stamped-in-metal
grills or mere holes?"

The back of my case has a stamped grille (enough space for 2 80cm
fans), the front has barely noticeable holes. There is 1 mounting for a
fan in the front, but with such holes I don't think it would be worth
it.

If the holes make a front fan seem unworthwhile, likewise
they impede passive intake. To put it simply, the case
needs a lot of work to be optimal for your parts- likely
there's more than the CPU to be concerned about as elevated
temps will more rapidly wear a motherboard, video card and
power supply than a CPU.

"Forget about "CPU-intensive work" and run a proper stress
test like Prime95's Torture Test for at least 30 minutes."

I'll do that tonight. Too bad the test doesn't have a CPU temperature
log!

You should be able to use a software that reports temp, so
there is no need for Prime95 to report it. More
importantly, Prime95 not only stresses but checks the
calculations so temp-induced errors will be revealed.

"...apply a tiny bit of thermal compound then
reinstall. "

When I got my thermal paste, I made the mistake of emptying the tube on
the processor :O

Easier to mention everything, you never know what someone
might've done unless you have the box in front of you to see
for yourself.

"Then look at the case airflow intake & exhaust.
You should put at least one (more) exahust fan on the rear
below the power supply."

The airflow in my case is pretty obstructed. Apart from my Radeon 9800
Pro, I have a SB Audigy card and a PCI/IDE card. I've got 4 IDE cables
running around inside!

Forget about the IDE cables- they make an insignificant
difference at this point. The video card might be kept
cooler if you leave the PCI slot under it, empty (though
IIRC, your board already has a bank space between the AGP
and first PCI slot), and then leave that empty space's
corresponding case bracket cover off, which will allow more
passive airflow past the video card, and reduce
recirculation through the card's 'sink.

I'll also try installing those 2 80cm fans and see what happens.

Ideally you'd cut out the rear fan shield, at most adding a
wire grill IF you need that bit of protection. Also the
front intake area in front of the hard drive bay(s) should
be opened up more, to reduce intake impedance (even without
any fan in that location) AND direct that airflow past the
drives to cool them. Unfortunately doing this mod with
minimal risk of having metal shavings floating around in the
case, requires stripping the system down to an empty case
before cutting/drilling/whatever, and of course cleaning it
out as well as reasonably possible. Generally speaking it's
far easier to make such changes before ever building a
system, but the long term benefits of doing so can make it
worth the hour or two to strip it down and rebuild it.

 

[Apollo]

If the holes make a front fan seem unworthwhile, likewise
they impede passive intake. To put it simply, the case
needs a lot of work to be optimal for your parts- likely
there's more than the CPU to be concerned about as elevated
temps will more rapidly wear a motherboard, video card and
power supply than a CPU.

A high case temp will also kill a hard disk pretty quickly. The OP
should get the dremel out or look for a better case.

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Because of this, I bought 2 80cm case fans and will install them soon.

That will very likely solve your heat problems. Go ahead and install
them. If that doesn't correct all of the problems, that would be the
time to get into all of this detailed discussion of other means and
methods. But until you've got enough air circulation through the
case, the rest of it is not significant.

Is my idling temperature normal?

A tad high (which makes absolutely *no* difference), but the
extra fans will cure that.

Will having heat problems with the CPU cause it to have a shorter
lifespan? Would the dopants in the semiconductor start diffusing around
too much at high temperatures?

Yes heat will shorten the lifespan of the components. It might,
for example, cause you to lose your disk drives in 2-4 years
instead of 10-15 years. As for the motherboard and CPU... it
will shorten their life, but you will almost certainly have long
since replaced them with something 5 to 10 times as fast, so you
don't really care.

For my system, what would you recommend the peak/equilibrium CPU
temperature to be (after say several hours of CPU-intensive work)?

What would be the absolute maximum temperature my CPU should go to
before I damage it?

The only temperature that really makes any difference is that
70C thermal shutdown. Keep it below that and you are fine.

 

[pete]

I did read an article, where someone kept their CPU at too low a
temperature, which actually slowed the processor down!

 

[GT]

Hello all. I am unsure how much effort I should spend in making my CPU
as cool as possible. It is an AMD XP 2500+ "Barton" 333MHz FSB
processor.

The CPU temperature whilst idle is 49'C, my board temperature is 36'C.
The ambient temperature now is in the low 20's. Sometimes when my case
is closed, and I am doing CPU-intensive tasks, I have to shut down my
computer because the CPU temperature exceeded 70'C. Very disruptive!
Because of this, I bought 2 80cm case fans and will install them soon.

Your idle temperature is fine, but the CPU is quite a bit higher than the
ambient temperature, so some case cooling should make a big difference.
While you are in there fitting the case fans - clean all the dust out of the
heatsink on the CPU - could be why it is struggling. More likely that the
air around the CPU and heatsink is too hot - you can't cool anything with
hot air, so install your fans and see if it makes a difference. Make sure
there is space in the front or side of the case for air to suck in or else
the exhaust fans will work overtime sucking air in through every tiny crack
and space round your case!

 

[Bob]

That will very likely solve your heat problems. Go ahead and install
them. If that doesn't correct all of the problems, that would be the
time to get into all of this detailed discussion of other means and
methods. But until you've got enough air circulation through the
case, the rest of it is not significant.

You can test if that's the cause by taking the case side off and
blowing air onto the mainboard with a fan.

Yes heat will shorten the lifespan of the components. It might,
for example, cause you to lose your disk drives in 2-4 years
instead of 10-15 years. As for the motherboard and CPU... it
will shorten their life, but you will almost certainly have long
since replaced them with something 5 to 10 times as fast, so you
don't really care.

The drive bays should have a fan mount directly in front, blowing
inwards over the drives.

55 C is plenty hot for the actual temp of the CPU chip.

The only temperature that really makes any difference is that
70C thermal shutdown. Keep it below that and you are fine.

It would be much safer to use 60C as your cutoff temp. If the CPU gets
that hot, then you should replace the heatsink assembly. Zalman is one
choice if you want to get the job done the first time.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

Individualism is a political and social philosophy that emphasizes individual
liberty, belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues
of self-reliance and personal independence. It embraces opposition to authority
and to all manner of controls over the individual, especially when exercised by
the state or society. It is thus directly opposed to collectivism.

 

[Bob]

I did read an article, where someone kept their CPU at too low a
temperature, which actually slowed the processor down!

What was "too low" a temp?


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

Individualism is a political and social philosophy that emphasizes individual
liberty, belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues
of self-reliance and personal independence. It embraces opposition to authority
and to all manner of controls over the individual, especially when exercised by
the state or society. It is thus directly opposed to collectivism.

 

[GT]

I did read an article, where someone kept their CPU at too low a
temperature, which actually slowed the processor down!

That must have been pretty cold - given he has the stock heatsink and fan, I
don't think you could even achieve that in the arctic!

 

[kony]

Yes heat will shorten the lifespan of the components. It might,
for example, cause you to lose your disk drives in 2-4 years
instead of 10-15 years. As for the motherboard and CPU... it
will shorten their life, but you will almost certainly have long
since replaced them with something 5 to 10 times as fast, so you
don't really care.

Your estimations will certainly depend on the temp of the
environment. It's not unforseeable that a drive's lifespan
would be reduced FAR under 2-4 years, in fact the average
drive lifespan is supposedly only 5 years considering those
in optimal conditions as well, plus the motherboard has been
seen time and time again to fail LONG before that
generalization about "5 to 10 times as fast" would be true.

On the contrary, there is a very real chance of killing a
board in less than 2 years, sometimes much less, by running
it too hot.

CPU is one of the least effected components by higher temps,
and in fact are guaranteed by warranty (In retail versions)
to temps beyond that which would cause instability.

 

[kony]

On 25 Jul 2005 10:18:07 -0700, "Random Person"

Also keep in mind that if modifying the case intake and
exhaust is too much of a problem to implement (varies per
case) an alternate solution can be to put in a large fan in
the side panel. Since the side panel is removable, the
system remains functional without having to be stripped
down, no concerns about getting metal shavings inside.

However, adding a side fan as an intake can even further
reduce flow past the hard drives, unless your drive bays
have mostly open sides and the fan is located near the
bottom front. An alternate strategy can be to put in an
even higher flow (or pair) fan(s) such that the case ends up
exhausting out the bottom front as well as the top rear.
This kind of implementation requires more careful
measurements of drive temps to adjust flow rate such that
it's adequate but no louder than necessary.

 

[Jon Danniken]

I'll do that tonight. Too bad the test doesn't have a CPU temperature
log!

Get motherboard monitor; it can log your temps. You'll likely see them
ceiling within the first few minutes with Prime95 anyway, though.
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/

Jon

 

[Free Hui]

Hi
Just for your info. My system is the same as yours except that I use two
Seagate 73.4G Hd. which produce terrible heat. I use 512mb x 2 3200 DDR
memory made by Geil. There is an 80mm Fan blowing the two hds to prevent
them from excessive heat. The PSU is bought from the web at less than $20
with dual fans claiming to be 450W. The case is an ordinary 6.5" x 16.5"
narrow case. There is no extra fans in the case. I overclock this system to
Xp3200. The CPU operates at 2.15Mhz and the CPU voltage is 1.775v. Whenever
I ran the Abiteq to check temperature. Sys=48C CPU=52C. No matter how I
heavy I load the CPU, it does not exceed 68C. The heatsink I use is the
Thermalright SP-97. I have been doing overclocking all the time. This system
is by far the most satisfactory I have accomplished. This system never
hanged nor rebooted. Temperature is in check at peak load <68C. (NF7 mb will
shut down if temperature is a little over 70C) Noise level is low especially
at night because all the fans are operating at less than 2800 RPM. My
conclusion is that NF7 is the hero for this. My former mb Abit KV7 could not
do this.
F. Hui

 

[kony]

Hi
Just for your info. My system is the same as yours except that I use two
Seagate 73.4G Hd. which produce terrible heat. I use 512mb x 2 3200 DDR
memory made by Geil. There is an 80mm Fan blowing the two hds to prevent
them from excessive heat. The PSU is bought from the web at less than $20
with dual fans claiming to be 450W. The case is an ordinary 6.5" x 16.5"
narrow case. There is no extra fans in the case. I overclock this system to
Xp3200. The CPU operates at 2.15Mhz and the CPU voltage is 1.775v. Whenever
I ran the Abiteq to check temperature. Sys=48C CPU=52C. No matter how I
heavy I load the CPU, it does not exceed 68C. The heatsink I use is the
Thermalright SP-97. I have been doing overclocking all the time. This system
is by far the most satisfactory I have accomplished. This system never
hanged nor rebooted. Temperature is in check at peak load <68C. (NF7 mb will
shut down if temperature is a little over 70C) Noise level is low especially
at night because all the fans are operating at less than 2800 RPM. My
conclusion is that NF7 is the hero for this. My former mb Abit KV7 could not
do this.
F. Hui

NF7 is a good board, but a large part of your success is due
to the SP-97 heatsink, it is quite a bit better than the
stock AMD 'sink. Even so, you're taking a risk with that
junk power supply. Just because a power supply works at
first, that doesn't mean it's good for the long haul.

 

[DaveW]

70 C is the thermal limit of modern CPU's. You do NOT want to run them
above that.

 

[Free Hui]

Hi Kony
Thank you for pointing out the weak point of my PSU. I am totally with you
on this point. I will try to find a better PSU.
F. Hui