InfSetup and OnMsiSilentInstall issues

[Laurence Wilmer]

I'm at it again! Its too hot to do anything but sit in front of a fan, so I
thought I'd try to sort out my ATI install problems.
Uninstalled all drivers, removed WDM devices, cleared out all ATI* files and
reg entries, then took a Ghost backup so I could have a few tries. With
these results:-

Cat 3.1 CD - I thought this should be the easiest, but after installing the
display driver it bombed with an error "InfSetup has performed an illegal
operation".
2 more attempts from my clean Ghost backup same result.

Cat 3.5 I've had this one working before, so try again from scratch.
All OK on WDM, Display, Control Panel, Win Media Encoder, DAO/MDAC but DVD
install bombs with
"To run a silent install, you must either specify a response file....
(OnMsiSilentInstall)"

Try to add MMC 8.5 without DVD gives the same error (CD validates OK).

Googling on *ATI and these errors points me to some InstallShield updates,
but they don't help.

I realise that the only error free install I've ever had has been after
wiping C: completely and re-installing windows.
I don't want to have to do that each time DX updates - any suggestions
(9000PRO AIW W98SE)?

Thanks,
Laurence

 

[patrickp]

I'm at it again! Its too hot to do anything but sit in front of a fan, so I
thought I'd try to sort out my ATI install problems.
Uninstalled all drivers, removed WDM devices, cleared out all ATI* files and
reg entries, then took a Ghost backup so I could have a few tries. With
these results:-

Cat 3.1 CD - I thought this should be the easiest, but after installing the
display driver it bombed with an error "InfSetup has performed an illegal
operation".
2 more attempts from my clean Ghost backup same result.

Cat 3.5 I've had this one working before, so try again from scratch.
All OK on WDM, Display, Control Panel, Win Media Encoder, DAO/MDAC but DVD
install bombs with
"To run a silent install, you must either specify a response file....
(OnMsiSilentInstall)"

Try to add MMC 8.5 without DVD gives the same error (CD validates OK).

Googling on *ATI and these errors points me to some InstallShield updates,
but they don't help.

I realise that the only error free install I've ever had has been after
wiping C: completely and re-installing windows.
I don't want to have to do that each time DX updates - any suggestions
(9000PRO AIW W98SE)?

Thanks,
Laurence

Couple of things, Laurence, first try a visit to
http://consumer.installshield.com/ for InstallShield problems - I downloaded
a couple of things from there that cleared up some InstallShield's problems
for me.

Second, I'm using W98SE, too, and I had problems installing the display
drivers with all the Cat 3.x drivers up to 3.5 (which was fine) except the
original all-in-one Cat 3.0 issue. You can use ATi's suggested alternative
method for installing display drivers, which is to start the installation,
let it unpack the files (noting where to - usually the ATI folder on your C:
drive), then cancelling out when the routine asks you if you want to
install.

Now start the Update Device Driver wizard either from the Display adapter
entry in Device Manager or the Adapter tab in Advanced Settings in your
Display Properties. Go through this, choosing the option to view a list
rather than have the wizard look for "the best driver." Then select Have
Disk and navigate to the folder your files were unpacked to. You should see
sub-folders in there with names relating to OSs - open yours and the wizard
should find an .inf file for the driver. Now you just go through the
process of clicking OK, YES etc until you reboot. The driver should then be
installed.

Not sure what your MMC 8.5 DVD problem is, but if it's that you've
downloaded the DVD setup.exe and are trying to use that - you can't. You
still have to use the download wizard, but this time direct it to where
you've got the setup file saved on your hard drive. Unless you've got a
remote and particularly want to make use of EazyLook, I'd recommend sticking
to MMC 8.1 rather than 8.5.

HTH patrickp

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

so
Couple of things, Laurence, first try a visit to
http://consumer.installshield.com/ for InstallShield problems - I downloaded
a couple of things from there that cleared up some InstallShield's problems
for me.

Second, I'm using W98SE, too, and I had problems installing the display
drivers with all the Cat 3.x drivers up to 3.5 (which was fine) except the
original all-in-one Cat 3.0 issue. You can use ATi's suggested alternative
method for installing display drivers, which is to start the installation,
let it unpack the files (noting where to - usually the ATI folder on your C:
drive), then cancelling out when the routine asks you if you want to
install.

Now start the Update Device Driver wizard either from the Display adapter
entry in Device Manager or the Adapter tab in Advanced Settings in your
Display Properties. Go through this, choosing the option to view a list
rather than have the wizard look for "the best driver." Then select Have
Disk and navigate to the folder your files were unpacked to. You should see
sub-folders in there with names relating to OSs - open yours and the wizard
should find an .inf file for the driver. Now you just go through the
process of clicking OK, YES etc until you reboot. The driver should then be
installed.

Not sure what your MMC 8.5 DVD problem is, but if it's that you've
downloaded the DVD setup.exe and are trying to use that - you can't. You
still have to use the download wizard, but this time direct it to where
you've got the setup file saved on your hard drive. Unless you've got a
remote and particularly want to make use of EazyLook, I'd recommend sticking
to MMC 8.1 rather than 8.5.

HTH patrickp

Thanks, Patrick.
I actually already reviewed your earlier most helpful posts on this issue,
so I already downloaded and installed the updated InstallShield engine.

I have Cat3.1 MMC 6.1 on an install CD, and thought that would be easiest,
had already noted advice to run it from the ATI install folder but
unfortunately it doesn't create one!

As for DVD install, I've tried both directing it to a previously downloaded
SETUP.EXE and re-downloading it - doesn't make any difference - "you can't
run a Silent Install without a response file" in both cases.

Seems to me the case is hopeless - my only driver update method is Format C:
because that is the only one I've ever got to work.
Remember - remember - favourites - OE files reg entries & address books -
Outlook snail mail address book - desktop - about 40 essential software -
IT'S NOT WORTH IT!! when I'm well pleased with the quality of ATI VCR file
captures (except for low sound volume), just can't edit them and MPEGs have
no sound.

Is there anything missing in my cleanup routine:-
Add/remove from Control Panel
Check folders deleted.
Search delete all ATI* files
Clean registry of ATI*
No of course there's something missing we just don't know what it is!
Give up.

 

[patrickp]

your then
Thanks, Patrick.
I actually already reviewed your earlier most helpful posts on this issue,
so I already downloaded and installed the updated InstallShield engine.

I have Cat3.1 MMC 6.1 on an install CD, and thought that would be easiest,
had already noted advice to run it from the ATI install folder but
unfortunately it doesn't create one!

As for DVD install, I've tried both directing it to a previously downloaded
SETUP.EXE and re-downloading it - doesn't make any difference - "you can't
run a Silent Install without a response file" in both cases.

Seems to me the case is hopeless - my only driver update method is Format C:
because that is the only one I've ever got to work.
Remember - remember - favourites - OE files reg entries & address books -
Outlook snail mail address book - desktop - about 40 essential software -
IT'S NOT WORTH IT!! when I'm well pleased with the quality of ATI VCR file
captures (except for low sound volume), just can't edit them and MPEGs have
no sound.

Is there anything missing in my cleanup routine:-
Add/remove from Control Panel
Check folders deleted.
Search delete all ATI* files
Clean registry of ATI*
No of course there's something missing we just don't know what it is!
Give up.

Well, it's also a good idea to check Device Manager in Safe Mode and make
sure you don't have any multiple instances of your ATi card - the Rage
Theatre and WDM Codec entries for capture cards are particularly prone to
that. It's also best to clean the registry before you start delete files.

The files on a CD are frequently not compressed, because there's more than
enough space anyway. So if you're installing from a CD, you don't get the
ATI folder created to unpack them to. However, you should be able to do the
same thing by finding the appropriate folder on the CD.

AFAIK a Silent Install is one where you don't get messages or options; I'm
not quite clear why you're running one - is that your choice or is the
install routine trying to do that?

patrickp

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

message

Well, it's also a good idea to check Device Manager in Safe Mode and make
sure you don't have any multiple instances of your ATi card - the Rage
Theatre and WDM Codec entries for capture cards are particularly prone to
that. It's also best to clean the registry before you start delete files.

The files on a CD are frequently not compressed, because there's more than
enough space anyway. So if you're installing from a CD, you don't get the
ATI folder created to unpack them to. However, you should be able to do the
same thing by finding the appropriate folder on the CD.

AFAIK a Silent Install is one where you don't get messages or options; I'm
not quite clear why you're running one - is that your choice or is the
install routine trying to do that?

patrickp

Silent Install is not me, it's just the error message that comes up.

Cat 3.1 from CD gives an InfSetup illegal operation.
Cat 3.5 from download (after reloading ghost of cleaned system) gives
SilentInstall error.

I'll check device manager in safe mode and delete files before cleaning
registry next time I try.

There are CAB files on the CD, but I can't open them manually as "they are
not in the standard Microsoft format".

Many thanks for reply,
Laurence

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

Well, it's also a good idea to check Device Manager in Safe Mode and make
sure you don't have any multiple instances of your ATi card - the Rage
Theatre and WDM Codec entries for capture cards are particularly prone to
that. It's also best to clean the registry before you start delete files.

The files on a CD are frequently not compressed, because there's more than
enough space anyway. So if you're installing from a CD, you don't get the
ATI folder created to unpack them to. However, you should be able to do the
same thing by finding the appropriate folder on the CD.

AFAIK a Silent Install is one where you don't get messages or options; I'm
not quite clear why you're running one - is that your choice or is the
install routine trying to do that?

patrickp

Safe mode - Device manager was a good thought - I hadn't checked it
carefully enough.
There are no duplicates of WDM drivers, but there are entries in Safe Mode
not present in normal mode:
BDA IPSink
BDA MPE Filter
BDA Slip De-Framer
Closed Caption DeCoder
MS Streaming Clock Proxy
- - Service proxy
- - Tee/Sink-toSink Converter
NABTS/FEC VBI Codec
World Standard Teletext Codec

In Normal mode I only have the usual:
ATI DWM Rage Theater Audio
- - - Video
- - - Teletext Decoder
- - - TV Audio crossbar
- - - TV Tuner
- - - Creative SB Live
- - - Specialised MVD WDM VBI Codec

So those other entries (now deleted from Safe mode) - DVD Player??

Laurence

 

[patrickp]

Safe mode - Device manager was a good thought - I hadn't checked it
carefully enough.
There are no duplicates of WDM drivers, but there are entries in Safe Mode
not present in normal mode:
BDA IPSink
BDA MPE Filter
BDA Slip De-Framer
Closed Caption DeCoder
MS Streaming Clock Proxy
- - Service proxy
- - Tee/Sink-toSink Converter
NABTS/FEC VBI Codec
World Standard Teletext Codec

In Normal mode I only have the usual:
ATI DWM Rage Theater Audio
- - - Video
- - - Teletext Decoder
- - - TV Audio crossbar
- - - TV Tuner
- - - Creative SB Live
- - - Specialised MVD WDM VBI Codec

So those other entries (now deleted from Safe mode) - DVD Player??

Laurence

No, Laurence, I said multiple instances - the first list are all needed
devices! If they're what you deleted, hopefully, they will have been
reinstalled when you rebooted. If you have multiple instances of any, you
need to remove one, but otherwise it's just any ATI entries left after you
uninstalled everything. If you did remove any of your first list of entries
and they haven't re-installed, you'll probably need to re-install Windows.
It's a good idea to do that occasionally, anyway.

And, yes, that's the value of Device Manager in Safe Mode, it enables you
see all entries - many of them are not shown in the normal mode. Usually,
if you have multiple entries for a device, one of them will be non-working,
so you system doesn't show it and, as you've noticed, there's a lot of extra
stuff that isn't shown, either.

That's something I do every now and then, just have a look through Device
Manager in Safe Mode and see if I've got multiple entries for anything.

Incidentally, on my Catalyst Software CD, the path to the appropriate .inf
folder is D:\install\Driver\9X_INF - D:, of course, being the letter of my
CD drive. There's also one for your capture driver (although that always
installs Ok for me - but the Rage Theater and WDM Codecs _are_ entries that
sometimes get left/duplicated in Device Manager) at D:\install\WDM\WDM_9x.

patrickp

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

No, Laurence, I said multiple instances - the first list are all needed
devices! If they're what you deleted, hopefully, they will have been
reinstalled when you rebooted. If you have multiple instances of any, you
need to remove one, but otherwise it's just any ATI entries left after you
uninstalled everything. If you did remove any of your first list of entries
and they haven't re-installed, you'll probably need to re-install Windows.
It's a good idea to do that occasionally, anyway.

And, yes, that's the value of Device Manager in Safe Mode, it enables you
see all entries - many of them are not shown in the normal mode. Usually,
if you have multiple entries for a device, one of them will be non-working,
so you system doesn't show it and, as you've noticed, there's a lot of extra
stuff that isn't shown, either.

That's something I do every now and then, just have a look through Device
Manager in Safe Mode and see if I've got multiple entries for anything.

Incidentally, on my Catalyst Software CD, the path to the appropriate .inf
folder is D:\install\Driver\9X_INF - D:, of course, being the letter of my
CD drive. There's also one for your capture driver (although that always
installs Ok for me - but the Rage Theater and WDM Codecs _are_ entries that
sometimes get left/duplicated in Device Manager) at D:\install\WDM\WDM_9x.

patrickp

Well thank you, Patrick - live and learn, I say. I never knew that some
devices were only supposed to show in safe mode - well used to deleting
spurious disk drives and monitors etc.
I took a Ghost backup, but just to see what happened anyway I re-ran Windows
Setup, and they all came back again.
(It's a reliable doddle compared to ATI setup!).

The only duplicated one was and is
Microsoft Streaming Tee/Sink-toSink Converter
(Eh? Well, there's 2 Display Adapters so of course we need 2 sink to sink
converters. Where would we be without 'em?)

Unfortunately, nothing else changed - TV volume when using ATI Tuner is
still very low (despite Windows vol. being maxed on both record and
playback), and MPEG captures still have no sound.
Unless I play them with PowerDVD - which is why I think my MPEG (and
possible sound?) problems result from inability to install ATI's DVD player.

Do I want to have another go at installing?

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

Glad to hear about the garden shed and the bathroom, Laurence.

Yes, you do need a DVD player installed for the codecs to play MPEG files.
If you have PowerDVD installed as well, ATi have stated several times that
there are issues around their player coexisting on a system with other DVD
players, although AFAIK it shouldn't affect installs.

Again, for function, I'd recommend MMC/DVD player 8.1 over 8.5, but that
still doesn't help your installation problem. Just a long shot, but I
presume you close down all running processes except Explorer and System Tray
before installing? Best to just have booted, too.

patrickp

Thanks, Patrick, I'll try uninstalling PowerDVD first and see if that makes
any difference.
Yes, I have been religiously ending processes first, and I am currently only
trying to get Cat 3.1 installed from the CD.
Laurence

 

[patrickp]

Thanks, Patrick, I'll try uninstalling PowerDVD first and see if that makes
any difference.
Yes, I have been religiously ending processes first, and I am currently only
trying to get Cat 3.1 installed from the CD.
Laurence

Cat 3.1 was one I had to install manually. I think my CD's the Cat 3.1/MMC
8.1 one, too, so you should find the location I quoted previously for the
..inf file appropriate.

patrickp

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

message

I'm fairly sure the Catalyst installation problem (which I had from Cat 3.0
to 3.4 inclusive) is an InstallShield problem: whether ATi haven't
implemented it properly or it's an InstallShield fault, I don't know. But I
had to install all those drivers manually, too. It wasn't your CDRW,
either. I didn't think it had anything to do with how clean your system is,
and you've just confirmed that, Laurence - thanks!

I never worked out how to manually install the DVD or MMC from the CD. Lots
of other error messages if I tried to bypass the first Install routine from
the CD.

But did the normal
installation for 3.5 not work for you? It did for me, as did 3.6.

One thing - I would _not_ endorse ATi's new recommended install order for a
capture card (display driver, reboot, control panel, reboot, capture driver,
reboot); when I tried that with the Cat 3.6 display driver, it crashed. But
when I tried the older recommended order (capture driver, don't reboot,
display driver, reboot, control panel, reboot), it worked fine, although the
display driver took a little time to complete all its processes. So stick
to the older recommended installation order.

Yes - as you said - capture - display - CP - DAO - WME -DVD - MMC
the 3.5 install notes that I originally printed gave this order - I stuck to
it and it worked.
I view any changes on the ATI driver pages with deep suspicion, as I well
recall the Cat3.5 drivers being listed without any WDM, as though it wasn't
needed.

So did the MMC/DVD installation go Ok this time, then? Did you have a DVD
drive in your machine when you tried to install the DVD player before - not
that I think that would have caused the error?

Yes - fine this time - the errors I was getting trying to re-install 3.1
(once I had a DVD drive) were SilentInstall problems.
But when I first ever got the ATI card and replaced my Matrox G400 the CD
install worked fine -I only had a CDRW, not DVD at that time so I might not
have attempted to install DVD - can't remember.

I am rather surprised that if there is a bug in the install routines of the
only driver CD that can actually be bought, this NG is not full of it!

I have to say I've never had a problem with low TV sound - I'm running a
VIVO now, so I wouldn't be getting that from a tuner anyway, but it worked
fine when I had an AIW. You do have the appropriate lead connected from
your AIW line out to your sound card line in? Have you tried it with video
input (say, from your VCR) instead of the coax input?

patrickp

Yes, I have co-ax input from external aerial (which I can connect direct to
the VCR) and this always gives low sound whatever I try.
I also have composite from the VCR and this gives good sound, which I why I
am sure it is an ATI tuner software problem - the signal comes in the same
route (audio in jump lead) and goes through the same Windows volume
controls.

Googling this group shows many others with this problem, but (like false
macrovision detects) no solutions that work for me.
(Why don't you try a clean install, he says?)

Thanks for reply,
Laurence