Info WGA sends to MS

[Alias]

The problem, however, is having the data in the first place,
more specifically any data that can be mined ahd linked. And
perhaps it is coincidence and perhaps it is not but this drive
sure falls lockstep (maybe, goose step) into what this current
US Administration is seeking to accomplish. IOW, it is best not
even to keep the data in the first place. Eliminating WPA and
the use of WGA removes any excuse for the US Government to seek
such data through subpoena, search-and-seizure, etc. Microsoft
has other means to police and control its products within its
distribution network as well as eliminate the profitability of
counterfeiting and piracy.

Another question that isn't answered is if you change your MB, flash
your BIOS or replace a hard drive does that render your XP not genuine?
And, if so, can this be fixed or is one forced to buy another copy of XP?

Alias

 

[Robert Moir]

Right. Company policy is only as good as the person willing to
uphold it. It is all a matter of personal ethics. Anybody you
explicitly trust at Microsoft?

Yes, several people. Corporations on the whole are evil because they have
essentially a legal obligation to do so. Most employees of these
corporations are good decent people. There are several people at Microsoft
who I do trust, in fact have done in the past with no problems.

As far as company policy goes - I don't see the upside for any company of
having a corporate policy that forbids something and then taking a corporate
decision to break that policy. Far better to just not have the policy (and
several companies take that approach).

 

[Robert Moir]

Of course they can't disguise anything as it is all open source and
anyone can look at the source code to see what any application or
service is doing.

I doubt very much that any of the major Linux players are involved in any
wrong doing but you need to read this article :
http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/ before you start waving around the
magical shield of "I can read teh source code!" because that magical shield
is neither quite as magical or as effective as a shield as you seem to
imagine.

 

[Robert Moir]

Do they install spyware disguised as security updates?

I doubt it. You know me Kurt, I ain't apologising for Microsoft on that one,
you know I'm not a fan of WGA, I just think some arguements go a little off
the deep end. And that distracts from the more "real" problems that exist
with this crud.

 

[Robert Moir]

I wonder what would happen if you rebooted, let WGA call home and then
turned off the computer, disconnect it from the cable, turned the
computer on and connect with a dial up on another ISP and let WGA
connect again. Would it scream "NOT GENUINE!"?

Somehow I doubt they're *that* stupid. Which does bring us back to why (or
even if) the IP address is collected.

Either they're just mentioning the fact that they have to collect it on at
least a transitionary basis as part of the TCP/IP protocol, or they are
using it as aggregated data rather than for anything else because you've
just demonstrated one reason it's utterly useless for more sinister things.

Of course, it might also make a pretty fair database record key to record
the process of the WGA "transaction" while it is taking place.

 

[Robert Moir]

Another question that isn't answered is if you change your MB, flash
your BIOS or replace a hard drive does that render your XP not
genuine? And, if so, can this be fixed or is one forced to buy
another copy of XP?

Oh it is answered. Microsoft consider the motherboard to be the computer, so
a new motherboard would be a new computer.

Now retail or volume licences can transfer from one computer to another no
problem so they're fine, and a warranty repair from the OEM is also fine
because the board will identify as still being one of theirs, but some
people with OEM type licences are finding themselves out of luck with this
one.

Not good at all.

 

[Alias]

Oh it is answered. Microsoft consider the motherboard to be the computer, so
a new motherboard would be a new computer.

Not according to my EULA for a generic OEM. The word "motherboard" is
not used once. A couple of weeks prior to WGA, I upgraded the
motherboards on three computers, all running a generic OEM XP and they
activated fine and since then have all passed the four WGAs. My question
is what will happen if I upgrade the MBs again.

Now retail or volume licences can transfer from one computer to another no
problem so they're fine, and a warranty repair from the OEM is also fine
because the board will identify as still being one of theirs, but some
people with OEM type licences are finding themselves out of luck with this
one.

Not good at all.

What about the hard drive? What if I flash the BIOS?

Alias

 

[Guest]

Just kidding, of course. Peace!! : )

My system has never crashed and, yes, I built it.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Just kidding, of course. Peace!! : )

Oh, OK.

Alias

 

[NoStop]

I doubt very much that any of the major Linux players are involved in any
wrong doing but you need to read this article :
http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/ before you start waving around the
magical shield of "I can read teh source code!" because that magical
shield is neither quite as magical or as effective as a shield as you seem
to imagine.

Geez, couldn't you find an even OLDER article?


--
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View Some Common Linux Desktops ...
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[Bruce Chambers]

Just proves how long the vulnerability has existed.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

 

[NoStop]

Right. Company policy is only as good as the person willing to
uphold it. It is all a matter of personal ethics. Anybody you
explicitly trust at Microsoft?

HeyBub trusts them all including GW Bush. Then again, HeyBub isn't the
brightest bulb on the tree.



--
The ULTIMATE Windoze Fanboy:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2370205018226686613

View Some Common Linux Desktops ...
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[Robert Moir]

Geez, couldn't you find an even OLDER article?

If that's the best you can present by idea of rebuttal then you obviously
haven't got anything worth listening to.

Incidentally, if you think that _was_ any kind of rebuttal, you've failed to
understand the article.

 

[Robert Moir]

Not according to my EULA for a generic OEM. The word "motherboard" is
not used once.

I'm sure you're right. IIRC they talk about the computer. How do we define
the computer. MS have, I have been told, recently redefined "the computer"
in the OEM EULA to mean "The motherboard".

Sucks don't it? I'd be quite happy to be wrong, incidentally.

A couple of weeks prior to WGA, I upgraded the
motherboards on three computers, all running a generic OEM XP and they
activated fine and since then have all passed the four WGAs. My
question is what will happen if I upgrade the MBs again.

Good question. I think the generic OEM stuff may be less tightly held than
the stuff that is customised by the big OEMs. I tend to avoid OEM stuff like
the plague (and I am sure you can see why, now) so I won't waste my time or
yours pretending to be an expert.

Keep in mind that on most modern computers, "the motherboard" includes a
whole metric buttload of built in stuff that just wasn't included as
standard years ago.

What about the hard drive? What if I flash the BIOS?

Hard Drive - no problemo.
Flash the BIOS - don't know. Could potentially be a problem for people with
the "Big Supplier Custom OEM" who flash from the supplier's custom BIOS to a
generic BIOS, couldn't it. But as I say, I'm not an expert on the OEM
licence stuff, so I wouldn't get too hung up on my opinions.


--
--
Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP
Blog Site - http://www.robertmoir.com
Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html
I'm always surprised at "professionals" who STILL have to be asked "Have you
checked (event viewer / syslog)".

 

[Alias]

I'm sure you're right. IIRC they talk about the computer. How do we define
the computer. MS have, I have been told, recently redefined "the computer"
in the OEM EULA to mean "The motherboard".

That definition is on a password protected site for Systems Builders
like Dell. Not applicable to me, nor did I agree to those conditions
when I purchased my licenses.

Alias

 

[Robert Moir]

That definition is on a password protected site for Systems Builders
like Dell. Not applicable to me, nor did I agree to those conditions
when I purchased my licenses.

Well I'm not here to argue with you. We're both just oil in the cogs of the
machine. I'm just telling you how I think it currently is. As I've said
several times, I just report the news, I most certainly don't agree with it!

 

[Mistoffolees]

I doubt it. You know me Kurt, I ain't apologising for Microsoft on that one,
you know I'm not a fan of WGA, I just think some arguements go a little off
the deep end. And that distracts from the more "real" problems that exist
with this crud.

This is going to get real interesting. The Bush Administration
has made "data mining" a legitimate enterprise. If the Dept. of
Justice suggests that ISP's, telephone companies, etc., maintain
databases on utilization by their users, then the information is
valuable. Given all of the possible data fields upon which to do
querying and researching, almost anything can be learned and be
assured that the government has the resources to do it. The sale
of data and information for reward and favors is nothing new...
think of the successes Tomas Toquemada had in the 15th Century.

 

[Gman]

Which is exactly the same as...

"We don't collect any information that can identify you personally. We only
collect your address, telephone number, current credit record, past and
presend jobs and school transcriptions. We do NOT collect your name."

Pretty stupid.

I'm already wiping about a dozen PC's for friends who are tired of this crap
and installing Linux.

Anyone want to buy some Microsoft software?

Sure, if you've got a Full Windows Genuine Authentic Retail version of
98SE you'd like a reasonable price for, let me know via Reply ,and I'll
contact you. Drop in a similarly authentic copy of XP Pro in as a
bonus, and you'd make me one happy dude.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

LOL! You are talking about a company that is both a predatory
monopoly and an IP thief. I don't trust them to follow the laws of
the US gov't, let alone some policy they made up themselves.

"This process does not collect or send any information that can be
used to identify you or contact you."

The stated policy is that they don't COLLECT ANY INFO THAT CAN BE
USED TO IDENTIFY YOU, not that they won't use it. Collecting the
IP address can be used to identify you. So MS's stated policy is a
lie, plain and simple.

Agreed - somewhat.
The wording makes it incorrect.

Perspective or not - every website/email server/ISP/etc has some information
that can be used to get back to the user in some fashion and possibly -
identify said user. In some cases - it can be made more difficult, etc -
but if you have an IP address - you can usually trace it back to some
place - and with the right access - trace it all the way back to the user.

 

[NoStop]

Just proves how long the vulnerability has existed.

Vulnerability???? Show me one Linux box that has suffered in anyway from
this "vulnerability". Windoze boxes are crashing constantly due to
vulnerabilities. Linux boxes ... haven't heard of one yet. So, cut the
crap. Trying to makeup things doesn't make it in the real world.


--
The ULTIMATE Windoze Fanboy:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2370205018226686613

View Some Common Linux Desktops ...
http://linclips.crocusplains.com/index.php