ICS using XP and a HUB

[Guest]

Hi,
I am sorry, I mislabled my hub as a router and apparently I shouldn't
have. I have a hub, a DLink 614+. I successfully set up ICS using Win98 as a
host machine and XP as client. After reformatting and starting with a fresh
copy of XP home I have found I am unable to use ICS. My host machine has ICS
enabled and the client machine is set up to access the internet through it
(Done when I set up the network). The network works well but I cannot for the
life of me get the ICS to work for the client.
Any assistance would be so very much appreciated. I ahve scoured web
sites, including MS's and have followed the instructions they have there to
the letter (It isn't that difficult.) Something is wrong somewhere though.
Please help point me in the right direction.

Thank you,
Garry

 

[Menno Hershberger]

Hi,
I am sorry, I mislabled my hub as a router and apparently I
shouldn't
have. I have a hub, a DLink 614+. I successfully set up ICS using
Win98 as a host machine and XP as client. After reformatting and
starting with a fresh copy of XP home I have found I am unable to use
ICS. My host machine has ICS enabled and the client machine is set up
to access the internet through it (Done when I set up the network).
The network works well but I cannot for the life of me get the ICS to
work for the client.
Any assistance would be so very much appreciated. I ahve scoured web
sites, including MS's and have followed the instructions they have
there to the letter (It isn't that difficult.) Something is wrong
somewhere though. Please help point me in the right direction.

If you haven't changed anything on the host machine and it worked
before, then you know that it is alright. You might try disabling your
firewall just to see, but if your network is working OK, then that's
probably not it either. All I can do is suggest that you go into network
connections and set up a new connection again, even if it's the same as the
one you already have. It might jostle something loose.
But you've probably already done that more than once...

 

[Bill James]

I'm pretty sure the only model D-Link makes with 614+ in the name is the DI-614+, which is a Wireless Router.

--

Bill James
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

Windows VBScript Utilities » www.billsway.com/vbspage/
Windows Tweaks & Tips » www.billsway.com/notes_public/

 

[Steve N.]

Hi,
I am sorry, I mislabled my hub as a router and apparently I shouldn't
have. I have a hub, a DLink 614+. I successfully set up ICS using Win98 as a
host machine and XP as client. After reformatting and starting with a fresh
copy of XP home I have found I am unable to use ICS. My host machine has ICS
enabled and the client machine is set up to access the internet through it
(Done when I set up the network). The network works well but I cannot for the
life of me get the ICS to work for the client.
Any assistance would be so very much appreciated. I ahve scoured web
sites, including MS's and have followed the instructions they have there to
the letter (It isn't that difficult.) Something is wrong somewhere though.
Please help point me in the right direction.

Thank you,
Garry

Sorry, but a DLink 614+ is a wireless router marketed in UK, not a hub.

http://www.dlink.co.uk/?go=jN7uAYLx...5kP98f8p8Nqtm6TU6VHqqnHtB84gKFNzk1KTiKEcQtuo=

In the future please keep the discussion in the original thread and
refer to the advice you were given there.

Steve

 

[Guest]

I wasn't given advice in the other thread, I was critisized for using a
router instead of a hub. It worked with windows 98, why wouldn't work with XP?

 

[CWatters]

Hi,
I am sorry, I mislabled my hub as a router and apparently I shouldn't
have. I have a hub, a DLink 614+.

The DLink 614+ is a wireless ROUTER... although I think it may have been
discontinued or replaced by the 624.

You probably shouldn't need to bother with ICS. Just connect both PC
directly to the router.

I believe the option to choose when running the XP network setup wizard is
"This machine connects to the internet via a hub" (something like that).
Ignore the error message about hubs not being secure - because you actually
have a router not a hub.

 

[Steve N.]

I wasn't given advice in the other thread, I was critisized for using a
router instead of a hub. It worked with windows 98, why wouldn't work with XP?

You weren't criticized, you were advised, and very well advised.

I have no idea why it may have worked with Win98, but seriously I doubt
that you had the same networking devices in use at the time.

Once again, the ICS Host machine *IS* the *ROUTER* and the internet
Gateway for your LAN. An additional router (which by the make/model
you've supplied, is in fact a ROUTER, not a HUB, not a SWITCH, it is a
frikkin *ROUTER*!) is preventing the ICS Host *ROUTER* from doing its
job because your Dl-614+ *ROUTER* is insisting on being the gateway (and
rightly so, that is exactly what it is designed to do), the result is a
gateway conflict and your ICS client machines don't know which *ROUTER*
to use, the ICS Host (*ROUTER*) or the Dl-614+ (*ROUTER*). Use a HUB or
a SWITCH to connect your LAN to use ICS, not a seperate *ROUTER*.

Steve

 

[SlowJet]

hehehe
The little rug rats are frustrating aren't they. lol
HUBba DUBba, BUBba
Then Zoom, Zoom, Zoom.

SJ

 

[SlowJet]

The OP really did not supply enough info to determine if he is connecting to
the net through the router also.

If not, then he needs a hub and a gateway on the HOST.

Connecting two or more computers thru a router to the net makes each a
separate internet connected computer and must therefore have it's two-way FW
and AV and Adware blockers.

With one HOST and a subnet on a hub, a front end FW and AV can be used. (Not
with standing the newest internet goblins) but even so, the clients are more
protected by being one step removed form the ISP connection.

A router with a FW could be used to connect to the ISP and the HOST
connected to that for added protection.

The router being the HOST's gateway, the HUB being the clients gateway.
This only complicates the HOST's FW open ports settings but it is what works
best once it is set up.

I do not have a router at the ISP connection but if I were to do that I
would install a hardware FW / AV device.
In lew of that, I run multiple FW's to insure the incoming ports are blocked
when odd ball things occur.

One computer is simple, two or more are called networking and the needs of
one client is the same as 253 clients. The missing items being DHCP and DSN
servers at the correct areas on the lan Gatways. There is usually only the
ISP or the router, so a HUB needs a DHCP and DSN sever to supply the clients
with non routed IP set. My 3rd part FW has that, so many hook up to the
routers not knowing. If my understanding is correct, a web server on one
client reference by anouter client would actually travle up to the ISP's DNS
server and back, not be routed thru the LAN. That means port 80 outgoing
would need to be open and thus the whole world can access the intranet webb
limited only be the ISP. Change the web to run on the standard proxy port of
8080 and the other client couldn't see the intranet webb because the ip is
non routable?

I think many home net users have TCP/IP routing mixed up with NETBIOS file
and print sharing.
For many of them installing NETBUI off the cd would work better but that's
another dozen threads.

IMO

SJ

 

[SlowJet]

I think the ICS acts as a bridge between NICs in a HOST, making it a pass
thru router. The ISP's DHCP sever and DNS sever would need to sever the
clients?
Hence, drectly connected to the internet.

SJ

 

[NobodyMan]

A critical piece of information you haven't provided, that might clear
all this up: What type of connection does this setup use to connect
to the internet? Dial-up (via a modem) or Broadband (cable/DSL)? If
you can supply that little tidbit, it would be very helpful.

 

[Steve N.]

The OP really did not supply enough info to determine if he is connecting to
the net through the router also.

In the original thread he posted this:

Hi,
Last year I set up a network for a couple friends that wanted win98 to be
the host computer and XP Home the client. They also wanted to share the dial
up. It was my first time networking and in a couple days I had it working the
way they wanted.

Now, the Win98 machine has been upgraded to XP home too. I had to change
the IP of the router because it was set at 192.168.0.1, whenever I tried
enabling ICS I was told the host computer needed to be set to this. So, I
changed the router to 192.168.0.20, the host is 192.168.0.1 and the client is
192.168.0.3.

Both computers can successfully ping the router and each other as well as
access files on one another. For some unknown, frustrating reason I cannot
get the client to successfully access the internet through the host.

I have gone here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/learnmore/ics.mspx .
And verified I did everything right. Everything on this page is exactly what
I did. I know I should be able to log on to the internet now, but I can't.
Since I am still quite new to networking I thought I would ask some of you
kind folks to please lend me some guidance. I would greatly appreciate it.

Garry

Leading me to believe they're using Dialup, not broadband.

If not, then he needs a hub and a gateway on the HOST.
Exzctly.


Connecting two or more computers thru a router to the net makes each a
separate internet connected computer and must therefore have it's two-way FW
and AV and Adware blockers.

With one HOST and a subnet on a hub, a front end FW and AV can be used. (Not
with standing the newest internet goblins) but even so, the clients are more
protected by being one step removed form the ISP connection.

A router with a FW could be used to connect to the ISP and the HOST
connected to that for added protection.

The router being the HOST's gateway, the HUB being the clients gateway.
This only complicates the HOST's FW open ports settings but it is what works
best once it is set up.

I do not have a router at the ISP connection but if I were to do that I
would install a hardware FW / AV device.
In lew of that, I run multiple FW's to insure the incoming ports are blocked
when odd ball things occur.

One computer is simple, two or more are called networking and the needs of
one client is the same as 253 clients. The missing items being DHCP and DSN
servers at the correct areas on the lan Gatways. There is usually only the
ISP or the router, so a HUB needs a DHCP and DSN sever to supply the clients
with non routed IP set. My 3rd part FW has that, so many hook up to the
routers not knowing. If my understanding is correct, a web server on one
client reference by anouter client would actually travle up to the ISP's DNS
server and back, not be routed thru the LAN. That means port 80 outgoing
would need to be open and thus the whole world can access the intranet webb
limited only be the ISP. Change the web to run on the standard proxy port of
8080 and the other client couldn't see the intranet webb because the ip is
non routable?

I think many home net users have TCP/IP routing mixed up with NETBIOS file
and print sharing.
For many of them installing NETBUI off the cd would work better but that's
another dozen threads.

IMO

SJ

It's only marketed in UK as far as I can find.


Steve

 

[Steve N.]

I think the ICS acts as a bridge between NICs in a HOST, making it a pass
thru router. The ISP's DHCP sever and DNS sever would need to sever the
clients?
Hence, drectly connected to the internet.

SJ

SJ,

The ICS host PC not a bridge, it is a router and DHCP server for the
private LAN. The ISP DHCP & DNS server is unaware of the local PCs and
only serves the ICS Host PC, the ICS Host PC in turn serves the local
clients with IP addresses (in a standard config) and a gateway to the
ISP. ICS is also known as IP Masquerading in the *nix world.

Steve

 

[Steve N.]

hehehe
The little rug rats are frustrating aren't they. lol
HUBba DUBba, BUBba
Then Zoom, Zoom, Zoom.

SJ

He originally said he was new to networking, cut him a little slack. But
still, he's got to pay attention if he's gonna learn.

Steve

 

[CWatters]

The OP really did not supply enough info to determine if he is connecting to
the net through the router also.

I figured he was interested in the simplest set up. I find it easier to
maintain if both PC are nearly identical and both connect directly to a
hub/router.

Perhaps these diagrams would be of interest.

http://www.homenethelp.com/web/diagram/index.asp

Home page here..

http://www.homenethelp.com/home-network.asp

 

[SlowJet]

Ahhh, IP Masquerading! (Thanks MS )

I see, I didn't relly know how ICS worked. The Network Wizard is in layman's
terms that does not always match the network as configured.
I concluded bridge because my 3rd Party FW creates a bridge entery, i.g.
192.168.0.0 submask 255.255.255.0.

I think this is used for pass thru normal NAT (transparent) protocals that
are not Enhanced by the 3rd Party FW, like the Av, site filtering, BB for
HTTP, Mail, News, Socks, REALONE, NET Meeting, TELNET, FTP.

I bit of blind spot as to what ICS is doing when you use the WFW with a
thrid party FW and gateway.
Can't tell if ICS is on or off and I still need to run the Network Wizard.
Ms or MS or MS. Some choice.
I thank some protocols can get out of the HOST without going thru my FW
gateway. Windows Time does this.

SJ.

 

[Guest]

Hi everyone. First, please let me apologize for my apparent ignorance. I've
only set up a couple networks and this one was my first. IU really don't know
how I could have shared my dial up connection using win98 host with winxp the
client. All I was asking is why it wouldn't work with XP when in fact it
worked with 98. I amvery sorry and promise, if I come back and post a query
to try being more specific. I DO appreciate all you having taken your time to
reply to my post. Thank you.

 

[Steve N.]

Hi everyone. First, please let me apologize for my apparent ignorance. I've
only set up a couple networks and this one was my first. IU really don't know
how I could have shared my dial up connection using win98 host with winxp the
client. All I was asking is why it wouldn't work with XP when in fact it
worked with 98.

Garry,
No apology needed, we're all here to help when we can and learn what we
can. Well, the great majority of us are anyway

I amvery sorry and promise, if I come back and post a query
to try being more specific. I DO appreciate all you having taken your time to
reply to my post. Thank you.

Don't be sorry, you did nothing wrong except mis-identify a piece of
network gear and leave out some information needed to help you solve the
problem. When peole don't include enough information we will nag them
for it. No big deal and very common.

ICS works using Win98se, Win2K or WinXP and in any combination of them
(possibly other Windows versions as well), and even with other OSes in
the mix. Living out in the country and still stuck on Dialup service, I
have a Win2K acting as ICS Host for two other Win2K PCs and a Linux box
and have added and removed WinXP and Win98se client machines to the mix
with no major problems.

If I understand the situation you are looking at two possible issues.

The ICS you're dealing with worked until a router was introduced into
the network, which conflicts with the routing of the ICS Host machine.

You changed which PC was the ICS host. In my experience Windows tends to
latch on to IP routing information and not let go of it easily. There
may be registry entries pointing to the Computer Name of the original
ICS Host as the Default Gateway. I have seen this situation and had to
search the registry for DefaultGateway entries and manually edit them.
Even then the PC had to be power cycled several times before it would
automatically obtain the correct routing information from the new ICS
Host machine.

Steve