HD damage or ?

[Paul]

I have to be honest Paul, you’re getting way past me on this. I can
barely
Keep up with you or understand what you’re talking about. (no
offense)

I realize I still have a ‘sleeping problem’ with my computer. I ran a
Spybot update and it failed once again to complete its passive
immunization with (27) unprotected items. This happened before but it
cleared up after the next update. Also when I ran defrag it found
fragmented files.

SO it seems that although the computer is acting normal for the
present I’m going to have to reformat and partition the HD eventually
and probably sooner than later is best?

Any suggestions or hints on doing it one way or another? Please keep
it simple for the simple minded *L*

Thanks,
Robert

Well, don't mind me

I go off on these little projects sometimes.

You see, the "filesystem cleanup and re-layout" problem
is one I've been working on for a while. I have a method that
works for me, but it takes two OSes to make it work. It's not
very convenient. And not all my computers are set up that way.

I was hoping to come up with a simple scheme, that would
only require a LiveCD of some sort, to fix up your C:.
(And since I've never used it before, I decided to use BartPE
for the job.)

I finished testing DriveImageXML and it failed my testing.
When the files were restored, it seems to have put the file system
back exactly as it was, rather than copying the files back
onto a clean C: as I was expecting. So it doesn't actually
help here at all.

You *don't* have to reformat to fix this. I'm convinced of
that. I could fix your disk here, using Robocopy. You could
manage to do the same thing yourself, if you had a second
computer you could take the disk over to, and do the work
using the OS on that second computer. That would work fine.

The approach I've been using, is I've been trying to find
a regular backup program, that can move the data over to your
spare disk, and then move it back once C: has been cleaned up.
But all of the programs I've tried so far, are enamored with
making exact copies, which means what they seem to want to do,
is copy any problems the file system has as well.

When I tried DriveImageXML, I "formatted" C: and set the
cluster size to 4K. The backup I did, was when C: had a cluster
size of 512 bytes (smaller than normal). After the restoration
was finished, the cluster size was back to 512 bytes, and that
can only happen if the file system has been restored with all
of its original problems. So the operation I carried out, didn't
do anything.

This is why I have to test these things so carefully, to detect
"cheating". I'd feel pretty stupid, if I wasted half of your
day, copying files around, for zero benefit.

So I'm working on this, as much for solving a problem here I've had,
as much as working solely to get it to work for you. I have a method,
but it takes two OSes. I'd like to get the method down to one
OS, or maybe a LiveCD, so the method can be used more generally.

I've had an NTFS partition fail before, where CHKDSK simply stalls
and doesn't do anything. And that would be the time I'd need a solution
like what I'm working on (delete file system and make a clean one, then
put the files back).

I wouldn't panic if I were you. Your Spybot problem won't be related
to the CHKDSK situation. It's coming from somewhere else.

You can choose to deal with the CHKDSK problem, when it pops up again.

*******

So now the question is, what free backup solution should I test next

Paul

 

[Navyguy]

Well, don't mind me

I go off on these little projects sometimes.

You see, the "filesystem cleanup and re-layout" problem
is one I've been working on for a while. I have a method that
works for me, but it takes two OSes to make it work. It's not
very convenient. And not all my computers are set up that way.

I was hoping to come up with a simple scheme, that would
only require a LiveCD of some sort, to fix up your C:.
(And since I've never used it before, I decided to use BartPE
for the job.)

I finished testing DriveImageXML and it failed my testing.
When the files were restored, it seems to have put the file system
back exactly as it was, rather than copying the files back
onto a clean C: as I was expecting. So it doesn't actually
help here at all.

You *don't* have to reformat to fix this. I'm convinced of
that. I could fix your disk here, using Robocopy. You could
manage to do the same thing yourself, if you had a second
computer you could take the disk over to, and do the work
using the OS on that second computer. That would work fine.

The approach I've been using, is I've been trying to find
a regular backup program, that can move the data over to your
spare disk, and then move it back once C: has been cleaned up.
But all of the programs I've tried so far, are enamored with
making exact copies, which means what they seem to want to do,
is copy any problems the file system has as well.

When I tried DriveImageXML, I "formatted" C: and set the
cluster size to 4K. The backup I did, was when C: had a cluster
size of 512 bytes (smaller than normal). After the restoration
was finished, the cluster size was back to 512 bytes, and that
can only happen if the file system has been restored with all
of its original problems. So the operation I carried out, didn't
do anything.

This is why I have to test these things so carefully, to detect
"cheating". I'd feel pretty stupid, if I wasted half of your
day, copying files around, for zero benefit.

So I'm working on this, as much for solving a problem here I've had,
as much as working solely to get it to work for you. I have a method,
but it takes two OSes. I'd like to get the method down to one
OS, or maybe a LiveCD, so the method can be used more generally.

I've had an NTFS partition fail before, where CHKDSK simply stalls
and doesn't do anything. And that would be the time I'd need a solution
like what I'm working on (delete file system and make a clean one, then
put the files back).

I wouldn't panic if I were you. Your Spybot problem won't be related
to the CHKDSK situation. It's coming from somewhere else.

You can choose to deal with the CHKDSK problem, when it pops up again.

*******

So now the question is, what free backup solution should I test next

    Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once again, I do not have a second computer or access to one. So any
of those options are out. It's good to know that I won't have to re-
format the HD though. So just deal with Chkdsk if it pops-up again and
then reformat and partition my HD if it gets stuck in a loop again?
Otherwise do nothing?

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Paul]

Once again, I do not have a second computer or access to one. So any
of those options are out. It's good to know that I won't have to re-
format the HD though. So just deal with Chkdsk if it pops-up again and
then reformat and partition my HD if it gets stuck in a loop again?
Otherwise do nothing?

Thanks,
Robert

What I'm saying, is "don't panic". There's no need to run off
immediately and fix it.

On the one hand, if your computer currently runs chkdsk without
a problem, then I'm sure a few people will suggest "it's fixed"
and there is nothing wrong.

But I'm more of a pessimist, and my assumption is that chkdsk
is a piece of junk. After having seen it spaz out here once,
I can't really trust what it tells me. And since I've not been
able to find any "chkdsk lookalike" program to replace it,
I've got few choices for opinions on file systems.

*******

I've had some luck in my hunt for a recipe to help you out.
But this is contingent on what version of OS you're using.

BartPE is a tool, that takes as input, a standard Windows installer
CD, and makes a LiveCD from it. It allows you to use a BartPE disc
as a "second OS". Another benefit, is your C: drive, the one with
the OS files, is no longer "busy" when BartPE is running. It
means certain operations work in that environment, that would
not work in regular Windows. For example, I can format your
C: drive, while working in that environment.

I prepared a BartPE CD here, by downloading the PEBuilder application
and feeding it my WinXP SP3 CD. It prepared a 160MB ISO9660 file,
based on the installer CD. I was able to boot that immediately, and
that worked. I've been steadily adding tools and burning new disc
images, as I've been testing. Currently, the CD is around
183MB or so.

But if you have a Dell/HP/Acer, chances are it doesn't come with
a real WinXP installer CD. A real WinXP CD has an "i386" folder,
with around 5000+ files in it. If you don't have a directory
of that name, with that many files, then BartPE may not
have the "input" it needs, to build a boot CD.

Using BartPE, I was able to find an NTBACKUP plugin, which
can be added to the BartPE prepared CD. I ran NTBACKUP,
and told it to back up my C: drive. It completed in maybe
seven minutes or so, and put a big file (equivalent to a
backup tape) on my spare hard drive. (NTBACKUP has the most
horrid "wizard" interface, and I'm damned lucky to have
finished this step.)

Next, I used the format command, like this, to blow away the
former C: drive. This would remove the "evil spirits" from C:.

vol C: (this prints out the original VSN or volume
serial number of the C: partition. The VSN
changes when a partition is formatted, which
is why we write down the number first. Mine
is 6452-9D5B for this experiment.)

format c: /fs:ntfs /v:MYWINXP /q /a:4096

Format will ask you to confirm the old value of the disk
label, to prevent accidents. Then, it'll ask you to press "y"
so the program can do the job.

What that does, is format the C: drive. The file system type
is NTFS (and I assume your C: is NTFS as well). The other option
would be FAT32. You can check properties of the partition, in
Disk Management if you want to verify that. The /v thing sets
the label on the partition (I label all my partitions, but
the label isn't always printed on the screen when I need it).
The /q selects quick format, so it won't take hours to complete.
The /a sets the cluster size. Since one of my methods of proof,
was to start with a C: having /a:512, and then change it, I
used /a:4096 when formatting C:, so I could check later and
see that it worked like it should.

The next step, is to reload the correct VSN, after the format.

volumeid c: 6452-9D5B

Then, I ran NTBACKUP again, and put the files back. That
reads the files from the huge backup.bkf file on my spare
drive, and fills up the C: partition again. I verified
they were all put back.

And the amazing thing is, when I rebooted, Windows came
back up again. And as far as I know, the only way that
could happen, is if NTBACKUP put the partition boot sector
back. The format step zaps the partition boot sector, and
I was worried that the recipe would not cover that step.
But when I tried it, no further repair work was needed,
and it just worked.

But all of this is rather pointless, if you don't have an
installer CD with the necessary files on it.

Still, I had fun making it work.

Paul

 

[Navyguy]

What I'm saying, is "don't panic". There's no need to run off
immediately and fix it.

On the one hand, if your computer currently runs chkdsk without
a problem, then I'm sure a few people will suggest "it's fixed"
and there is nothing wrong.

But I'm more of a pessimist, and my assumption is that chkdsk
is a piece of junk. After having seen it spaz out here once,
I can't really trust what it tells me. And since I've not been
able to find any "chkdsk lookalike" program to replace it,
I've got few choices for opinions on file systems.

*******

I've had some luck in my hunt for a recipe to help you out.
But this is contingent on what version of OS you're using.

BartPE is a tool, that takes as input, a standard Windows installer
CD, and makes a LiveCD from it. It allows you to use a BartPE disc
as a "second OS". Another benefit, is your C: drive, the one with
the OS files, is no longer "busy" when BartPE is running. It
means certain operations work in that environment, that would
not work in regular Windows. For example, I can format your
C: drive, while working in that environment.

I prepared a BartPE CD here, by downloading the PEBuilder application
and feeding it my WinXP SP3 CD. It prepared a 160MB ISO9660 file,
based on the installer CD. I was able to boot that immediately, and
that worked. I've been steadily adding tools and burning new disc
images, as I've been testing. Currently, the CD is around
183MB or so.

But if you have a Dell/HP/Acer, chances are it doesn't come with
a real WinXP installer CD. A real WinXP CD has an "i386" folder,
with around 5000+ files in it. If you don't have a directory
of that name, with that many files, then BartPE may not
have the "input" it needs, to build a boot CD.

Using BartPE, I was able to find an NTBACKUP plugin, which
can be added to the BartPE prepared CD. I ran NTBACKUP,
and told it to back up my C: drive. It completed in maybe
seven minutes or so, and put a big file (equivalent to a
backup tape) on my spare hard drive. (NTBACKUP has the most
horrid "wizard" interface, and I'm damned lucky to have
finished this step.)

Next, I used the format command, like this, to blow away the
former C: drive. This would remove the "evil spirits" from C:.

    vol C:         (this prints out the original VSN or volume
                    serial number of the C: partition.. The VSN
                    changes when a partition is formatted, which
                    is why we write down the number first. Mine
                    is 6452-9D5B for this experiment.)

    format c: /fs:ntfs /v:MYWINXP /q /a:4096

Format will ask you to confirm the old value of the disk
label, to prevent accidents. Then, it'll ask you to press "y"
so the program can do the job.

What that does, is format the C: drive. The file system type
is NTFS (and I assume your C: is NTFS as well). The other option
would be FAT32. You can check properties of the partition, in
Disk Management if you want to verify that. The /v thing sets
the label on the partition (I label all my partitions, but
the label isn't always printed on the screen when I need it).
The /q selects quick format, so it won't take hours to complete.
The /a sets the cluster size. Since one of my methods of proof,
was to start with a C: having /a:512, and then change it, I
used /a:4096 when formatting C:, so I could check later and
see that it worked like it should.

The next step, is to reload the correct VSN, after the format.

    volumeid c: 6452-9D5B

Then, I ran NTBACKUP again, and put the files back. That
reads the files from the huge backup.bkf file on my spare
drive, and fills up the C: partition again. I verified
they were all put back.

And the amazing thing is, when I rebooted, Windows came
back up again. And as far as I know, the only way that
could happen, is if NTBACKUP put the partition boot sector
back. The format step zaps the partition boot sector, and
I was worried that the recipe would not cover that step.
But when I tried it, no further repair work was needed,
and it just worked.

But all of this is rather pointless, if you don't have an
installer CD with the necessary files on it.

Still, I had fun making it work.

    Paul

I checked and I could not find a i386 folder. As far as Chkdsk is
concerned it simply stopped running as I said. I haven't tried to re-
run it because of ending up in a loop again. I actually agree with you
about Chkdsk and I've heard from others its a piece of junk.

Robert

 

[Paul]

I checked and I could not find a i386 folder. As far as Chkdsk is
concerned it simply stopped running as I said. I haven't tried to re-
run it because of ending up in a loop again. I actually agree with you
about Chkdsk and I've heard from others its a piece of junk.

Robert

If you had a real WinXP installer CD, then you could build a BartPE
boot disk. It has a command prompt, and allows other commands to
be run. I ran "ntbackup" from within that environment, and it seems
I succeeded in moving the files off C and back again with it.
(Move files off C:, format C:, move files back onto fresh C
To do that, you need some plugin files, and I found the
necessary files for it. ntbackup wizard in WinXP, is a pretty
horrible interface, because I had some trouble finding the dialog
box to turn off VSS based backup, in order for it to succeed.
At first I couldn't get it to work, until I started all over again
and ran the wizard from scratch. I removed all the filter options,
and had it "back up everything" on C:.

*******

Other environments you can work in, include "Recovery Console". Again,
this is available if you have a real WinXP installer CD. If you boot the
installer CD, then there is an option there to start the recovery
console. That gives you a command prompt. And you can run chkdsk from there.
As far as I know, C: should not be "busy" when you're booted into that.
The recovery console, may not be as "general purpose" as BartPE can be,
but recovery console does give you access to the all-important "fixboot"
and "fixmbr" commands which are sometimes needed for maintenance. If
you mix working in Windows and Linux on your computer, at some point,
you may have need of those two commands.

Now, if you absolutely can't make a recovery console with the things
at your disposal (you have no real installer CD), I found a download for one.

Click one of the "blue dots" here, and a recovery console will download.
The ZIP file is 4,677,680 bytes. The xp_rec_con.iso file inside the
ZIP is 7,716,864 bytes. You would use Nero or Imgburn, and burn a
CD with the xp_rec_con.iso file. The recovery console isn't as powerful
as BartPE, but it might give you an alternative location to run CHKDSK from.

http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/Tools/bootdiscs/xp_rec_con.zip

Now, I ran that in a virtual machine to test it. That CD is a WINXP
installer disc, but without the install files, just enough files for
running the recovery console. That is why the CD can be so small.

When it says "Press any key to boot the CD", well, press a key.
It behaves the way a regular installer CD would. You boot the
computer with it, instead of your regular OS. Eventually, if
you're patient, you'll see a prompt where you're offered the option
to press "R" to enter the recovery console. And from there, after
looking for OSes on your disks, a menu should show up offering to allow
you to "log in" to a system partition like C: . Next to the candidate
partition letters, is a number:

1) C:/Windows
2) D:/Windows

I have two OSes, which is why I have two options. There are no hints as
to which is which. If I wanted my WinXP partition, it actually happens to be
D:. So I would type "2" to select that partition to log into. Since my
two operating systems, have different passwords on the Administrator
account, I can actually tell I've got the right one, because the password
for that Admin account works. You're prompted for the Admin password
at that point, and you enter it ********.

(If you don't know the Administrator password, then dealing with that
is a separate issue. You can alway reset the passwords, with the
appropriate tool off the Internet.)

Now, if the login worked, you'll be sitting in an MSDOS-like window,
with a command prompt. In my virtual machine right now, I'm looking at

C:\WINNT>

because the virtual machine is running Win2K. What is neat, is the WinXP
recovery console, did not complain when logging into a Win2K partition.
It still worked, to allow me in. So I gave CHKDSK a try.

C:\WINNT> chkdsk /?

The options in this case, offered me /P and /R. R would check sector by
sector, as far as I know, whereas P checks structure. I used P in the
interest of time (it's quicker that way, for this test).

C:\WINNT> chkdsk /P C:

That gave my C: drive a clean bill of health, and "without a reboot".
It checked it on the spot.

If you type the word "exit" into the command prompt, the computer will reboot.
Remove the CD, when you want to boot from the hard drive again.

C:\WINNT> exit

There is nothing magic about doing this. It's no better than what
you've been doing. The difference is, you get to run chkdsk immediately,
without any "check before boot" type behavior. And it works that way,
because "C: isn't busy".

There is a virus scan of that recovery console download, here. This
doesn't mean much, but it's better than not knowing anything about
it at all. Notice the file size is the same, 7,716,864 bytes for the
ISO9660 file.

http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan...b9a9701c8021323c756c3c3d2a71c9da20-1321095731

HTH,
Paul

 

[Navyguy]

If you had a real WinXP installer CD, then you could build a BartPE
boot disk. It has a command prompt, and allows other commands to
be run. I ran "ntbackup" from within that environment, and it seems
I succeeded in moving the files off C and back again with it.
(Move files off C:, format C:, move files back onto fresh C
To do that, you need some plugin files, and I found the
necessary files for it. ntbackup wizard in WinXP, is a pretty
horrible interface, because I had some trouble finding the dialog
box to turn off VSS based backup, in order for it to succeed.
At first I couldn't get it to work, until I started all over again
and ran the wizard from scratch. I removed all the filter options,
and had it "back up everything" on C:.

*******

Other environments you can work in, include "Recovery Console". Again,
this is available if you have a real WinXP installer CD. If you boot the
installer CD, then there is an option there to start the recovery
console. That gives you a command prompt. And you can run chkdsk from there.
As far as I know, C: should not be "busy" when you're booted into that.
The recovery console, may not be as "general purpose" as BartPE can be,
but recovery console does give you access to the all-important "fixboot"
and "fixmbr" commands which are sometimes needed for maintenance. If
you mix working in Windows and Linux on your computer, at some point,
you may have need of those two commands.

Now, if you absolutely can't make a recovery console with the things
at your disposal (you have no real installer CD), I found a download for one.

Click one of the "blue dots" here, and a recovery console will download.
The ZIP file is 4,677,680 bytes. The xp_rec_con.iso file inside the
ZIP is 7,716,864 bytes. You would use Nero or Imgburn, and burn a
CD with the xp_rec_con.iso file. The recovery console isn't as powerful
as BartPE, but it might give you an alternative location to run CHKDSK from.

http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/Tool...

Now, I ran that in a virtual machine to test it. That CD is a WINXP
installer disc, but without the install files, just enough files for
running the recovery console. That is why the CD can be so small.

When it says "Press any key to boot the CD", well, press a key.
It behaves the way a regular installer CD would. You boot the
computer with it, instead of your regular OS. Eventually, if
you're patient, you'll see a prompt where you're offered the option
to press "R" to enter the recovery console. And from there, after
looking for OSes on your disks, a menu should show up offering to allow
you to "log in" to a system partition like C: . Next to the candidate
partition letters, is a number:

1) C:/Windows
2) D:/Windows

I have two OSes, which is why I have two options. There are no hints as
to which is which. If I wanted my WinXP partition, it actually happens tobe
D:. So I would type "2" to select that partition to log into. Since my
two operating systems, have different passwords on the Administrator
account, I can actually tell I've got the right one, because the password
for that Admin account works. You're prompted for the Admin password
at that point, and you enter it ********.

(If you don't know the Administrator password, then dealing with that
is a separate issue. You can alway reset the passwords, with the
appropriate tool off the Internet.)

Now, if the login worked, you'll be sitting in an MSDOS-like window,
with a command prompt. In my virtual machine right now, I'm looking at

    C:\WINNT>

because the virtual machine is running Win2K. What is neat, is the WinXP
recovery console, did not complain when logging into a Win2K partition.
It still worked, to allow me in. So I gave CHKDSK a try.

    C:\WINNT>  chkdsk /?

The options in this case, offered me /P and /R. R would check sector by
sector, as far as I know, whereas P checks structure. I used P in the
interest of time (it's quicker that way, for this test).

    C:\WINNT>  chkdsk /P C:

That gave my C: drive a clean bill of health, and "without a reboot".
It checked it on the spot.

If you type the word "exit" into the command prompt, the computer will reboot.
Remove the CD, when you want to boot from the hard drive again.

    C:\WINNT>  exit

There is nothing magic about doing this. It's no better than what
you've been doing. The difference is, you get to run chkdsk immediately,
without any "check before boot" type behavior. And it works that way,
because "C: isn't busy".

There is a virus scan of that recovery console download, here. This
doesn't mean much, but it's better than not knowing anything about
it at all. Notice the file size is the same, 7,716,864 bytes for the
ISO9660 file.

http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=8ab5b3bcec75246180....

HTH,
    Paul

Paul,

I'm not quite understanding the point of all of this. If you say that
my HD doesn't have to be formatted then I'm not quite following on
what your doing or why? Are we trying to get Chkdsk to complete? Yet,
didn't you say that Chkdsk is a piece of junk? Should I try running
Chkdsk from the command prompt again to see if it completes or go to
My computer>C:>Properties>Tools>Error checking> Automatically fix file
system errors or Scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors.

Thoughts/suggestions

Robert

 

[Paul]

Paul,

I'm not quite understanding the point of all of this. If you say that
my HD doesn't have to be formatted then I'm not quite following on
what your doing or why? Are we trying to get Chkdsk to complete? Yet,
didn't you say that Chkdsk is a piece of junk? Should I try running
Chkdsk from the command prompt again to see if it completes or go to
My computer>C:>Properties>Tools>Error checking> Automatically fix file
system errors or Scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors.

Thoughts/suggestions

Robert

We could have had some fun building a BartPE disc, if you had
an installer CD as a source of files to build one.

Without that, all I've got to offer, is an alternative way to
run CHKDSK. From a recovery console. If you don't have a recovery
console, I provided a download link to one I found. Perhaps the outcome
would be different from there, but I don't know that for a fact. It
would be, yet another experiment. I've got nothing here to test it
on. My C: is clean.

I feel that copying the files off and fixing C:, might be worthwhile,
but the only environment so far, was BartPE. If I do it from Linux,
I doubt very much any file attributes would be handled properly.
Running ntbackup from BartPE seemed to work OK. And of course,
my original recipe, using two Windows OSes (WinXP plus a maintenance
OS), also works, because I've used that about four times now over
the last two year period.

So fixing C: might be a long term solution, but if all you've got
is a Dell, you might not have the materials to build a BartPE CD.
If you could install a second Windows OS (like I've got here),
I could give a recipe for what to do with that. But if you
have neither of them, the only other tool I can offer you,
is the ability to run chkdsk in real time, from a recovery console.
And that might not repair anything (because it's junk in my opinion).

Paul

 

[Paul]

[]
Could the have been just that somehow chkdsk has been configured to run
at startup every time? I didn't know this was possible, but here's
something from the latest issue of WinNews Newsletter (which I recommend):

QUESTION:
Hi, Deb. Here's my problem. Whenever I turn on my XP computer,
CHKDSK starts scanning my disk. Is that necessary? Is there a way
to disable it? Thanks! - Rashell ANSWER:
Sounds as if somewhere along the line, you or somebody else
configured it to run automatically on bootup. The good news is
that you can indeed turn it off if it annoys you. Here's how: Open
a command prompt (Start | Run and type cmd, then click OK).
Assuming the drive that's being scanned is C:, type the following
command: chkntfs /X C:

If you need to disable it on more drives, add the drive letters,
separated by a space (for example:

chkntfs /X C: D: E:

That should take care of the problem.

There's a registry key for that as well, the one that controls autochk.
The "BootExecute" key, is sometimes overloaded by other software, to
run any commands they need to run before C: is mounted. I think
it's also possible, to store more than one command (like a two line
script if you will) with the registry key. I seem to remember some
piece of software I used in the past, put stuff in there. I
presume the chkntfs is to clean out that entry in some way.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7658497_turn-off-autochk.html

Right now, my BootExecute key has a value of

autocheck autochk *

which as far as I know, is the default value. I think the
intent of that, is to only run chkdsk, if the dirty bit
is set on a partition.

There's probably some web page around, with more details
on the tricks you can do in there.

Paul

 

[Navyguy]

We could have had some fun building a BartPE disc, if you had
an installer CD as a source of files to build one.

Without that, all I've got to offer, is an alternative way to
run CHKDSK. From a recovery console. If you don't have a recovery
console, I provided a download link to one I found. Perhaps the outcome
would be different from there, but I don't know that for a fact. It
would be, yet another experiment. I've got nothing here to test it
on. My C: is clean.

I feel that copying the files off and fixing C:, might be worthwhile,
but the only environment so far, was BartPE. If I do it from Linux,
I doubt very much any file attributes would be handled properly.
Running ntbackup from BartPE seemed to work OK. And of course,
my original recipe, using two Windows OSes (WinXP plus a maintenance
OS), also works, because I've used that about four times now over
the last two year period.

So fixing C: might be a long term solution, but if all you've got
is a Dell, you might not have the materials to build a BartPE CD.
If you could install a second Windows OS (like I've got here),
I could give a recipe for what to do with that. But if you
have neither of them, the only other tool I can offer you,
is the ability to run chkdsk in real time, from a recovery console.
And that might not repair anything (because it's junk in my opinion).

    Paul

So in essence your trying to get Chkdsk to run. I tried clicking on
the link for the recovery console but it didn't work. In any case I'm
not sureI want to go that route. If all else fails I can always re-
format and partition the drive. In any case I think it would allot
simplier than what your proposing because I can barely follow what
your doing.

@ J.P. Gilliver The Chkdsk has stopped running. However, were
concerned that there may be an underlying problem. So far the system
has been running normally.

Robert

 

[Navyguy]

I had this happen to me before too, (IIRC).   My way out of this eternal
loop was to restore the previous day's ERUNT backup.   It was kinda
annoying, to say the least.  Why it even happened escapes me, but I'm
guessing it wasn't able to run to completion successfully (with error code 0
or whatever!!).  

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
Could the have been just that somehow chkdsk has been configured to run
at startup every time? I didn't know this was possible, but here's
something from the latest issue of WinNews Newsletter (which I
recommend):

      QUESTION:
      Hi, Deb. Here's my problem. Whenever I turn on my XP computer,
CHKDSK starts       scanning my disk. Is that necessary? Is therea way
to disable it? Thanks! -       Rashell       ANSWER:
      Sounds as if somewhere along the line, you or somebody else
configured it to run       automatically on bootup. The good newsis
that you can indeed turn it off if it       annoys you. Here's how: Open
a command prompt (Start | Run and type cmd,       then click OK).
Assuming the drive that's being scanned is C:, type the       following
command: chkntfs /X C:

      If you need to disable it on more drives, add the drive letters,
separated by a       space (for example:

      chkntfs /X C: D: E:

      That should take care of the problem.

"Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed for the umpteenth time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The computer isn't in a loop any longer and Chkdsk has stopped
running. However the issue is why did it stop running? I didn;t do
anything other than pressing F8 and selecting Safe Mode with a Command
Prompt and ever since its acted normally with a few exceptions which
may or may not have anything to do with this. The only other issues
are that Spybot won't complete its passive immunization although this
happened before and cleared up with their next update. The only other
thing that has occurred is that when defragging it did find a
fragmented file.

Robert

 

[David H. Lipman]

The computer isn't in a loop any longer and Chkdsk has stopped
running. However the issue is why did it stop running? I didn;t do
anything other than pressing F8 and selecting Safe Mode with a Command
Prompt and ever since its acted normally with a few exceptions which
may or may not have anything to do with this. The only other issues
are that Spybot won't complete its passive immunization although this
happened before and cleared up with their next update. The only other
thing that has occurred is that when defragging it did find a
fragmented file.

Robert

I say...

Until, you receive a BSoD condition indicative of a hard disk data problem or other
symptoms of a hard disk problem, don't worry about.

In that case, use imaging software and clone the disk to a replacement.

If you want assurance, use imaging software and clone the disk to a replacement in a
preemptive act.

 

[Navyguy]

From: "Navyguy" <[email protected]>





I say...

Until, you receive a BSoD condition indicative of a hard disk data problem or other
symptoms of a hard disk problem, don't worry about.

In that case, use imaging software and clone the disk to a replacement.

If you want assurance, use imaging software and clone the disk to a replacement in a
preemptive act.

What is BS0D ? From the context of what your saying I feel much the
same. Sometimes its better to leave well enough alone.

I don't have imagining software like Acronis; however I have used Nero
to backup my files onto disk. It's not the best solution but its
better than none. I have thought of buying a dedicated HD for backups
but just haven't got around to it due to other prorities and finances
as I live on a very marginal income.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[David H. Lipman]

What is BS0D ? From the context of what your saying I feel much the
same. Sometimes its better to leave well enough alone.

I don't have imagining software like Acronis; however I have used Nero
to backup my files onto disk. It's not the best solution but its
better than none. I have thought of buying a dedicated HD for backups
but just haven't got around to it due to other prorities and finances
as I live on a very marginal income.

Thanks,
Robert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bsod

 

[Paul]

The important thing to check with any backup approach is to make sure
you can use it to restore things - even if Windows won't boot. If you
can't, its use is reduced.

What you want, is "bare metal restore" capability. That means,
the backup software comes with its own boot CD. You verify the
computer can actually be booted with that CD, before you ever
need it. (There's nothing worse than a broken computer, and
that "boot CD" doesn't work! Verify it works.)

Say the single drive inside the computer fails. Now, there is
no OS to boot the computer. The copy of the backup software
stored inside the OS is no longer available for usage. At
that point, you bring out the backup software "boot CD"
and boot the computer with that. You connect the spare
drive with the backup files on it, then run the restore
function in the boot CD software, to put back the C: drive.

As long as your backup software can do that, you'll be fine.

Some people use the backup software, and never burn the
copy of the "boot CD" that they're supposed to. Always
read the manual for your backup software, and make sure
you're prepared for emergencies.

Paul

 

[Navyguy]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:




What you want, is "bare metal restore" capability. That means,
the backup software comes with its own boot CD. You verify the
computer can actually be booted with that CD, before you ever
need it. (There's nothing worse than a broken computer, and
that "boot CD" doesn't work! Verify it works.)

Say the single drive inside the computer fails. Now, there is
no OS to boot the computer. The copy of the backup software
stored inside the OS is no longer available for usage. At
that point, you bring out the backup software "boot CD"
and boot the computer with that. You connect the spare
drive with the backup files on it, then run the restore
function in the boot CD software, to put back the C: drive.

As long as your backup software can do that, you'll be fine.

Some people use the backup software, and never burn the
copy of the "boot CD" that they're supposed to. Always
read the manual for your backup software, and make sure
you're prepared for emergencies.

    Paul

From what your describing it would require me to either install
another HD in my computer and using a image software like Acronis to
create a bootable CD or buy a dedicated HD and connect it to the
computer via USB cable and using create the backup from there. Nero
doesn;t offer the capability to creat a bootable CD, However, I agree
its the best possible solution.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Paul]

From what your describing it would require me to either install
another HD in my computer and using a image software like Acronis to
create a bootable CD or buy a dedicated HD and connect it to the
computer via USB cable and using create the backup from there. Nero
doesn;t offer the capability to creat a bootable CD, However, I agree
its the best possible solution.

Thanks,
Robert

I have Nero BackItUp Essentials here, and it *does* have a boot CD.
The trick is, to find it

1) Fire up Nero BackItUp.
2) Click the "More" button at the bottom.
3) Click "Create Bootable Disc" on the bottom right.
Make sure the CD/DVD drive is ready to go.
4) When the "Create Bootable Disc" window appears, change
the output device from floppy diskette to your CD/DVD drive.
Set the disc type, according to the blank media you have.
I used DVD, because my blank was a DVD type. Boot disc size
is around 35MB, and is likely a Linux based boot disc.
5) Click "Create" and off it goes. It formats the disc (if it's
rewritable), writes the data, and verifies for correctness. Done.

Now, take that disc and boot the computer with it, and verify it
works.

I'm off to test mine, in a virtual machine... I didn't even
know that function was down there

HTH,
Paul