HD damage or ?

[Navyguy]

Click Start > Run > type in command.
The Command Prompt will appear and it will do the disk check when the
system is restarted. Or, even better, start the system to Safe Mode with
Command Prompt by pressing the F8 key prior to Windows loading -

A description of the Safe Mode Boot options in Windows XPhttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/315222

MowGreen
================
  *-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
================

"Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just tried going into Safe Mode with the Command prompt but hangs up
after I hit enter with the screen is covered with lines of text with
the last being:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\System32\Drivers
\agp440.sys

I pressed reset to get out of it and selected the last settings that
worked but chkdsk came up again so I cancelled it and was able to
logo.

Robert

 

[David H. Lipman]

Seagate I believe.

You need to know. If it is SeaGate, download the SeaTools ISO image and burn a CDROM.
Boot off that CDROM and test your hard disk.
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/seatools/SeaToolsDOS223ALL.ISO

 

[David H. Lipman]

I typed up to net stop wuauserv and it says:

system error 5 has occurred.

Access denied

C:\Documents and Settings\Rob>


Suggestions? Thoughts? Would a System Restore correct the problem?

No. System Restore would NOT fix the problem and if you get Accessed Denied then you must
logon as an Administrator to stop a NT Service.

 

[James D Andrews]

Navyguy was thinking very hard and all he could come up with was:

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 running IE8 with XP, SP3 , Windows
Firewall, Avira antivirus, Spybot (for updates only), Spywareblaster,
ATF and Hive Cleanup and all the programs work well together and are
up to date.

Tonight, I turned the power off too soon while the computer was still
powering down. I can still for the present at least logon to the
Internet; however each time I’ve done so Chkdsk pops up and starts to
scan the system. I cancel it and then it lets me in.

I’ve tried powering it off and back on and also selecting F8 and
trying the last settings that worked but it still does the same thing
and Chkdsk comes up. Is there a way to fix this so that my system is
back to normal or have I seriously damaged the HD beyond repair?

Thoughts/ Suggestions?

Thanks,
Robert

I'll let others address the other problems. As for the chkdsk, if I
recall from my own previous misadventures, once you let the blasted
thing run its course it will stop popping up every time.

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road,
and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be
swept off to.
-Samwise Gamgee quoting Bilbo Baggins, edited

 

[Navyguy]

From: "Navyguy" <[email protected]>







You need to know.  If it is SeaGate, download the SeaTools ISO image and burn a CDROM.
Boot off that CDROM and test your hard disk.http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/seatools/SeaToolsDOS223ALL...

--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool -http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.ukhttp://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was able to burn a CDROM and then boot from it for a test with the
SeaTools ISO image. This is becomming more involved than I thought so
please bear with me to keep up with your instructions as we try to
resolve this.


Thanks,
Robert

 

[Navyguy]

I was able to burn a CDROM and then boot from it for a test with the
SeaTools ISO image. This is becomming more involved than I thought so
please bear with me to keep up with your instructions as we try to
resolve this.

Thanks,
Robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I used Sea Tools and ran a long drive self test and a long generic
test and they both completed without showing any problems. The Chkdsk
still comes up.

Robert

 

[David H. Lipman]

I used Sea Tools and ran a long drive self test and a long generic
test and they both completed without showing any problems. The Chkdsk
still comes up.

Robert

Then you *MUST* allow it to complete no matter how long it takes!

 

[Navyguy]

Then you *MUST* allow it to complete no matter how long it takes!

I tried the commands again and this time I was able to stop the
automatic updates. I renamed the Software Distribution file and I’ve
scheduled a Chkdsk at start-up and re-booting right now.

Lets hope it completes and I won't touch it, but certainly 2-3 hours
should be long enough if its working correctly. It shouldn't have to
run for 6 or more hours? Should it?

Thanks for all the good advice and help,
Robert

 

[Patok]

|
| I tried the commands again and this time I was able to stop the
| automatic updates. I renamed the Software Distribution file and I’ve
| scheduled a Chkdsk at start-up and re-booting right now.
|
| Lets hope it completes and I won't touch it, but certainly 2-3 hours
| should be long enough if its working correctly. It shouldn't have to
| run for 6 or more hours? Should it?
|
| Thanks for all the good advice and help,

"...no matter how long it takes!"

You have HD data corruption and it must be repaired. You ran SeaTools
so we know there is no damage to the HD nor is it failing. This a full
and complete Check Disk is warranted and required.

But didn't he write that Check Disk was stuck for hours in stage *1*?
If this is true, it is highly probable that it is indeed in a loop and
will never finish. I've never seen stage 1 last more than a minute, even
on a slow computer and an external USB 2TB drive with hundreds of
thousands of files (more than 300,000). The second stage can last hours,
true, but not the first, IME.

 

[David H. Lipman]

But didn't he write that Check Disk was stuck for hours in stage *1*? If this is
true, it is highly probable that it is indeed in a loop and will never finish. I've
never seen stage 1 last more than a minute, even on a slow computer and an external USB
2TB drive with hundreds of thousands of files (more than 300,000). The second stage can
last hours, true, but not the first, IME.

The machines not in front of me. I have to go by what is written here.

I have seen many variations of a Check Disk take time. Often hours. However when they
ocurred it was usually tied to a physical proplem with the hard disk. Usually the vendor
diagnostic would find a problem and generate an error code. In this case the OP has
indicatecd a Full Scan with SeaTools had no error indications. Thus it is prsumed that
the Check Disk is taking longer than expected but it must be allowed to complete. Even if
it has to run all night. If after 10 ~ 12 hours and there is no change, then I am at a
loss and will have to research another methodology (assuming there is one).

 

[Patok]

The machines not in front of me. I have to go by what is written
here.

I have seen many variations of a Check Disk take time. Often hours.
However when they ocurred it was usually tied to a physical proplem
with the hard disk. Usually the vendor diagnostic would find a
problem and generate an error code. In this case the OP has
indicatecd a Full Scan with SeaTools had no error indications. Thus
it is prsumed that the Check Disk is taking longer than expected but
it must be allowed to complete. Even if it has to run all night. If
after 10 ~ 12 hours and there is no change, then I am at a loss and
will have to research another methodology (assuming there is one).

Actually MS says it can take *days* "on a Very Large Disk (for
example, 70 gigabytes)" or with millions of files.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/chkdsk.mspx

So the duration per se is not suspect; it *can* take long. I was
wondering about the fact it is suppesedly in the first stage (which is
"verifying files" on NTFS. As I wrote, I've never seen it last longer
than a minute even on slow computers with large disks. Did the OP write
if there was any progress on the % completed display?

 

[David H. Lipman]

Actually MS says it can take *days* "on a Very Large Disk (for example, 70
gigabytes)" or with millions of files.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/chkdsk.mspx

So the duration per se is not suspect; it *can* take long. I was wondering about the
fact it is suppesedly in the first stage (which is "verifying files" on NTFS. As I
wrote, I've never seen it last longer than a minute even on slow computers with large
disks. Did the OP write if there was any progress on the % completed display?

Nothing from the OP as per percantage completed nor listing files on the screen as the
Check Disk processed progressed.

 

[MowGreen]

MowGreen:

Happy Thanks Giving !
How the heck are you ?
Its been quite a while and I haven't even see you on MWR.

-- Dave Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

It's Thanksgiving already ? Or is it just Thanksgiving in Canada <w>
I've been lying low dealing with life this year. And, finally, after 8
years I'm no longer associated in any context with MS nor the MVP
'Program'. They are SO clueless they make Republicans look 'smart'. <g>


MowGreen
================
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
================

"Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked

 

[David H. Lipman]

It's Thanksgiving already ? Or is it just Thanksgiving in Canada <w>
I've been lying low dealing with life this year. And, finally, after 8 years I'm no
longer associated in any context with MS nor the MVP 'Program'. They are SO clueless
they make Republicans look 'smart'. <g>

LOL Canadian Thanks Giving was a month ago.

You have been missed !

 

[Navyguy]

From: "Navyguy" <[email protected]>



|
| I tried the commands again and this time I was able to stop the
| automatic updates. I renamed the Software Distribution file and I’ve
| scheduled a Chkdsk at start-up and re-booting right now.
|
| Lets hope it completes and I won't touch it, but certainly 2-3 hours
| should be long enough if its working correctly. It shouldn't have to
| run for 6 or more hours?  Should it?
|
| Thanks for all the good advice and help,

"...no matter how long it takes!"

You have HD data corruption and it must be repaired.  You ran SeaTools so we
know there is no damage to the HD nor is it failing.  This a full and
complete Check Disk is warranted and required.

I’ve let Chkdsk run for over 36 hours and although it got through 1 of
3, ‘Verifying’ with no problem it stopped at 2 of 3 ‘Indexing’ every
time. So it seems that there is HD damage. Still, I’m going to run a
malware scan again just to see if there’s something there. However
Chkdsk should have completed in that amount of time. Are there other
commands you want me to try?

If my HD is gone, I may have a replacement Seagate ST3160815A (160GB)
and the cleaned Western Digital original (40GB) so should I put them
both on? I basically know how to do it but I might need some guidance.
I seem to remember having to set some pins in the back of them for
master/slave? When formatting etc will it ask about both drives?

I was thinking of maybe using the smaller drive to store files,
backups etc. Would it make the computer slower?

Options, thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Navyguy]

   But didn't he write that Check Disk was stuck for hours in stage *1*?
If this is true, it is highly probable that it is indeed in a loop and
will never finish. I've never seen stage 1 last more than a minute, even
on a slow computer and an external USB 2TB drive with hundreds of
thousands of files (more than 300,000). The second stage can last hours,
true, but not the first, IME.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
*
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your correct, I had tried to let Chkdsk complete before and let it run
for 6 hours and it never got out of 1 of 3. That's why I mentioned
that this time it did but it never got past 2 of 3 . It shouldn't take
36 hours and it still didn't complete.


Thanks,
Robert

 

[Paul]

Your correct, I had tried to let Chkdsk complete before and let it run
for 6 hours and it never got out of 1 of 3. That's why I mentioned
that this time it did but it never got past 2 of 3 . It shouldn't take
36 hours and it still didn't complete.


Thanks,
Robert

There could be performance reasons for it, but if you're stuck in
a CHKDSK loop, you might never get a chance to investigate.

Possible reasons would be PIO versus DMA mode, an abnormally large
percentage of small files (which slows everything down you try to do).
Those are two that come to mind.

Using the Performance plugin, you might also check for abnormal
performance, such as a too-low command rate to the disk. If the
disk had some bad blocks on it, the disk may wait 15 seconds while
attempting to read a block, which can slow down the apparent performance.
That would show up, if you were running the CHKDSK option that
causes all sectors to be read.

When you right click in the graph pane, and "Add Counter", there is a
section for disk counters in there. One of them is "Disk read bytes/sec",
while another might be "Disk reads/sec" and that is a measure of the
command rate. A modern disk, with actual working cache chip on the
controller, can easily do more than 60 commands per second. The graph
shows you the average per second, when you add one of those disk
counters.

http://www.techrepublic.com/i/tr/cms/contentPics/r00220000811jim33_06.gif

The problem is, most of the tools you'd use for such investigating,
won't run when you need them most. If you can't get the computer
to boot, and are waiting for CHKDSK to finish, you're at the mercy
of the computer. But, you have the option of moving the defective
disk, to another machine, and since the other machine has its own
boot disk, the "guest" disk won't prevent the OS from working. And
then you can do further testing on the disk, to try to figure out
what is wrong. Moving the disk over, will hide some of the problems
(if the hardware on the other computer, is actually the problem), but
still, it's a worthwhile option if you're not getting anywhere fast.

It's one of the best reasons, for owning two computers. The ability
to try stuff.

Paul

 

[David H. Lipman]

I’ve let Chkdsk run for over 36 hours and although it got through 1 of
3, ‘Verifying’ with no problem it stopped at 2 of 3 ‘Indexing’ every
time. So it seems that there is HD damage. Still, I’m going to run a
malware scan again just to see if there’s something there. However
Chkdsk should have completed in that amount of time. Are there other
commands you want me to try?

If my HD is gone, I may have a replacement Seagate ST3160815A (160GB)
and the cleaned Western Digital original (40GB) so should I put them
both on? I basically know how to do it but I might need some guidance.
I seem to remember having to set some pins in the back of them for
master/slave? When formatting etc will it ask about both drives?

I was thinking of maybe using the smaller drive to store files,
backups etc. Would it make the computer slower?

Options, thoughts, suggestions?

If there was "hard disk damage" then the SeaTools would have caught it. There is nobody
that know SeaGate hard disks better than SeaGate and their tools.

About the ONLY other idea would be to place the drive on a surrogate PC and then perform a
Check Disk on it as Drive "E:" or whatever that PC assigns it. It could be placed inside
a computer on a and internal IDE channel or externally via an IDE to USB hard disk
adapter.

I'd also think about running SeaTools long test on that drive again.

 

[Navyguy]

From: "Navyguy" <[email protected]>









If there was "hard disk damage" then the SeaTools would have caught it.  There is nobody
that know SeaGate hard disks better than SeaGate and their tools.

About the ONLY other idea would be to place the drive on a surrogate PC and then perform a
Check Disk on it as Drive "E:" or whatever that PC assigns it.  It could be placed inside
a computer on a and internal IDE channel or externally via an IDE to USB hard disk
adapter.

I'd also think about running SeaTools long test on that drive again.

--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool -http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.ukhttp://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I ran a full scan with Malware bytes Anti-malware which completed
successfully and found nothing.

In passing, will Malwarebytes Anti-Malware conflict with Spybot or
Spywareblaster or Avira or cause the computer to slow down? Should I
leave it on the computer? Is there a danger of having too much?

@ J.P. Giiliver (John) - I forgot that my vintage of computer it
fractures HD’s above a certain size into two partitions. My 160 GB HD
after formatting and partitioning fractured into two partitions of 127
GB and 33 GB. It seems they didn’t envisage the computer needing more
memory when they wee made and so when it reaches it maximum it
fractures the drive into (2) partitions by default. I’ve never used
the smaller partition before but perhaps instead of adding another
drive I should use that instead and save the 40GB HD as a backup.

@Paul – I do have allot of small files that I keep online. Perhaps it
would be best to back them up and just keep the current files instead
of all of them? PIO versus DMA mode? You lost me.

Graph pane? I hate to sound stupid but you have to bear with me some.
Where or what is the graph pane?

I think there may be some misunderstanding. I don’t have the option of
another computer. I said I may have another Seagate ST3160815A (160GB)
HD and the cleaned Western Digital original (40GB) HD. As replacements
if my HD is gone.

@ David H Lipman -

I don’t have the ability to put the drive on another computer. However
I will run the Sea Tools long tests again and will also try letting it
do Chkdsk again at least for 2-3 hours and maybe we’ll get lucky.


Thanks,
Robert

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <[email protected]>

General: if not already tried, it might be worth running chkdsk in safe mode: I was just
wondering if in normal mode something is repeatedly making it restart. (If it goes to
chkdsk before you get to the point where you can select safe mode, abort it, go to safe
mode, and start chkdsk manually. If this idea is flawed - which it may be - someone else
please say.)

Since a Full Check Disk coccurs at boot, it does done prior to loading the GUI and
therefore occurs at a point with less of an OS loading than Normal Mode or Safe Mode and
thus running Check Disk in Safe Mode won't make a difference.