Hard Drive Backup Options

[Bob D.]

I used to back up my Win98 machine with Norton Ghost on CD-Rs. It's taking
too many CDs to do this anymore. What is the best way to do a complete back
up with today's BIG hard drives?

I'll be upgrading to XP soon. I'd like to backup before I attempt this.
I have a DVD burner now.
I'm willing to purchase an external USB drive.
I prefer to make a hard drive image, in case my drive crashes.
I want to be able to retreive individual files from the image, without doing
a complete restore.

 

[Shelly F]

I used to back up my Win98 machine with Norton Ghost on CD-Rs. It's taking
too many CDs to do this anymore. What is the best way to do a complete back
up with today's BIG hard drives?

I'll be upgrading to XP soon. I'd like to backup before I attempt this.
I have a DVD burner now.
I'm willing to purchase an external USB drive.
I prefer to make a hard drive image, in case my drive crashes.
I want to be able to retreive individual files from the image, without doing
a complete restore.

Personally, I use Casper on an internal second hard drive on my
desktop and I use Casper on an external hard drive on my laptop. Works
flawlessly: after the initial backup, it takes less than 5 minutes to
update the entire C drive and personal files on D.
I have no business relationship with Casper othe than a user.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I used to back up my Win98 machine with Norton Ghost on CD-Rs. It's taking
too many CDs to do this anymore. What is the best way to do a complete back
up with today's BIG hard drives?

I'll be upgrading to XP soon. I'd like to backup before I attempt this.
I have a DVD burner now.
I'm willing to purchase an external USB drive.
I prefer to make a hard drive image, in case my drive crashes.
I want to be able to retreive individual files from the image, without doing
a complete restore.

You could buy a hard disk of sufficient size to store what is
currently kept on your internal hard disk, put it into a USB
case, then do this:
- Create an NTFS partition on it, enabling data compression.
- Boot the machine with a Bart PE CD (www.bootdisk.com).
- Use xcopy.exe /s /e /h /o /y /c to copy drive C: to your USB disk.

If your disk should crash then you can use the same process
to restore the system to a new disk. You will then have to
make some minor adjustments to restore the boot environment.

 

[no one]

http://www.stompsoft.com/downloads.html

Backup my pc 60 TRIAL.. Trail is FULLY functional!


Backs up to DVD also

I have been using this program since the Days of the old TAPE BACKUPS (
SEAGATE owned the company then)

Also Works with XP !

 

[Ted]

I believe Western Digital gives away the backup
software if you buy the external USB drive.
But you are much better of, if you use Casper XP
with an internal slave drive rather than using USB.

USB great for cameras, transfer files using memory sticks,
but not too good for drive backup, it is slow, plus the USB
drive will fail before the internal drive.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Why should a USB drive fail before the internal drive?

The principle of a robust backup requires that the backup
medium is kept in a different physical location from the
normal medium. How does your solution meet this
requirement, seeing that you propose an internal slave
drive? If the PC gets stolen, goes up in flames, suffers
electrical damage or a meltdown of Windows then your
internal backup drive will be history too.

I believe Western Digital gives away the backup
software if you buy the external USB drive.
But you are much better of, if you use Casper XP
with an internal slave drive rather than using USB.

USB great for cameras, transfer files using memory sticks,
but not too good for drive backup, it is slow, plus the USB
drive will fail before the internal drive.

 

[Kenny]

Two related questions.
1. Why should an external USB HDD fail before an internal one? I ask
because it did happen to me, I had a Maxtor 160GB in an IcyBox enclosure and
it failed at one month old.
2. Latest MicroMart magazine recommends Paragon Exact Image as the best with
Norton Ghost second. I've been using Acronis True Image. Is there really
much difference between these imaging products?
--
Kenny Cargill

I believe Western Digital gives away the backup
software if you buy the external USB drive.
But you are much better of, if you use Casper XP
with an internal slave drive rather than using USB.

USB great for cameras, transfer files using memory sticks,
but not too good for drive backup, it is slow, plus the USB
drive will fail before the internal drive.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Two related questions.
1. Why should an external USB HDD fail before an internal one? I ask
because it did happen to me, I had a Maxtor 160GB in an IcyBox
enclosure and it failed at one month old.

It's the luck of the draw. The pros for an external drive are that it can be
turned off when not actaully needed for backing up and can be used with more
than one computer. The cons are that if you don't turn it off it will
probably overheat or run too hot in most external cases and it is far more
likely to get bumped or jostled while running.

2. Latest MicroMart magazine recommends Paragon Exact Image as the
best with Norton Ghost second. I've been using Acronis True Image. Is
there really much difference between these imaging products?

It comes down to personal preferance. They all have some slight advantages
and disadvantages. In the end they all work very well at creating an image
and restoring it if needed.

Kerry

 

[Kerry Brown]

I believe Western Digital gives away the backup
software if you buy the external USB drive.
But you are much better of, if you use Casper XP
with an internal slave drive rather than using USB.

USB great for cameras, transfer files using memory sticks,
but not too good for drive backup, it is slow, plus the USB
drive will fail before the internal drive.

External media that can be stored somewhere other than with the computer is
always a better option for backup purposes. USB 2.0 or firewire (available
on most new computers) while not as fast as an internal drive is more than
fast enough for backups. If an external drive is turned off when not being
used for backups it is likely to outlast an internal drive that is running
all the time. Current IDE drives are built very cheaply and they are all
(external or internal) prone to failure. That's why backups of any kind are
so importatnt.

Kerry

 

[Ted]

Why should a USB drive fail before the internal drive?

I went through 4 of them in less than two years.
My first one was Buslink, lack of cooling froze the drive.
Forgot the name of the second, it also went.
Then I bought ADS USB to IDE box, put a Western Digital
in it, few months and it also froze.
Then I bought Belkin USB to IDE box with a fan in it, and
a new Western Digital, for some reason it was very slow.
So I dumped them all put a slave hard drive in the computer,
its way faster, my large backups are handled faster.
In addition I have a drive that I mirror to.

The principle of a robust backup requires that the backup
medium is kept in a different physical location from the
normal medium. How does your solution meet this
requirement,

What they mean by that, is backup:
- To a storage website in the internet.
- To a media (Tape, CD/DVD) and take home daily.
- To a computer in a WAN.
- To a fire proof box.

You need one copy in the same physical place to retrieve
files that may have deleted or altered by my mistake.

I know an accounting small firm, that backup locally
to a backup computer, to the Internet, and take home
a DVD daily.

If the PC gets stolen, goes up in flames, suffers
electrical damage or a meltdown of Windows then your
internal backup drive will be history too.

So will the USB, except if the power supply went bad
then it could burn both hard drives.

Not only you need different ways to backup, you also
need different software.
For example, maybe the mirroring software failed
that night, then you don't have backup at all. Because
mirroring software wipe out the backup drive before
mirroring.

In addition to mirroring I use data backups, it
backups my important data.
http://www.backtec.com/minman.htm
With this program, I have extra methods of backups,
and I can retrieve files from it easily.
It does rotary backups, I backup locally, to a network
computer, then copy the backups to a DVD and put them
in a fire proof safe.
http://www.backtec.com/writecds.htm verifies a written
CD/DVD when done writing to see if all went OK.

Never enough backups, specially if got hit by fire, flood or theft.

Why should a USB drive fail before the internal drive?

The principle of a robust backup requires that the backup
medium is kept in a different physical location from the
normal medium. How does your solution meet this
requirement, seeing that you propose an internal slave
drive? If the PC gets stolen, goes up in flames, suffers
electrical damage or a meltdown of Windows then your
internal backup drive will be history too.

 

[Ted]

Latest MicroMart magazine recommends Paragon Exact

Never worked with me.

I had very good luck with Casper XP, the size of the mirroring
drive is not a factor, as long its same size or larger.
I stay away from Norton as far as I can.

Two related questions.
1. Why should an external USB HDD fail before an internal one? I ask
because it did happen to me, I had a Maxtor 160GB in an IcyBox enclosure
and it failed at one month old.
2. Latest MicroMart magazine recommends Paragon Exact Image as the best
with Norton Ghost second. I've been using Acronis True Image. Is there
really much difference between these imaging products?

 

[Darrell S]

I used to back up my Win98 machine with Norton Ghost on CD-Rs. It's
taking too many CDs to do this anymore. What is the best way to do a
complete back up with today's BIG hard drives?

I'll be upgrading to XP soon. I'd like to backup before I attempt
this. I have a DVD burner now.
I'm willing to purchase an external USB drive.
I prefer to make a hard drive image, in case my drive crashes.
I want to be able to retreive individual files from the image,
without doing a complete restore.

I currently use DriveImage 7.0 which does all those things you list. You
can restore individual files/folders/data from the backed up image or you
can restore the entire image. I have my computer set to boot from CD if a
bootable CD is installed. That way if I can't access Windows for some
reason I can boot to my DI 7.0 CD and, using it, I can access my external
USB image backups for image writeover to my hard drive. My USB drive is
200GB so I keep 3 copies of my image and overwrite the oldest version on
each image backup.

I still use GoBack as my primary means to recover to a previous condition.
It wasn't until recently that I discovered you don't have to use the entire
GoBack re-write. If you want to recover a file to a previous condition you
can do that with GoBack just using the Recover Files option. You can choose
to overwrite an existing file to a previous condition, recover it to a
different folder and avoid the overwrite so you can compare the two, or you
can slightly change the name to avoid the overwrite. I like that best since
by simply adding a number or letter after the filename the recovered version
will be right next to the current one.

I backup my Quicken banking and bill paying info each time I use Quicken and
keep that backup on my external USB drive also.

 

[Ted]

External media that can be stored somewhere other than with the computer is

always a better option for backup purposes

Very true, but unfortunately USB is not a good solution, I wish
it was.
I hate tape backups.
I do my backups on a network drive, almost the same
transfer speed of a USB.

If an external drive is turned off when not being used for backups it is
likely to outlast an internal drive that is running

True, but we are looking for automation.

Current IDE drives are built very cheaply and they are all (external or
internal) prone to failure.

That is a shame, competition drove those companies
into this. I would rather pay more for better made drive,
but now even Western Digital is as bad as Seagate.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Very true, but unfortunately USB is not a good solution, I wish
it was.
I hate tape backups.
I do my backups on a network drive, almost the same
transfer speed of a USB.

I get much faster sppeds with USB 2.0 over a 100 Mb LAN. Why do you say USB
is not a good solution?

True, but we are looking for automation.

I like to call it disaster recovery rather than a backup. If you are only
going to use method then it must not be stored at the same location as the
source. If you have another external method then an internal drive is highly
recommended. My recommended method is an internal drive with a daily backup
and at least a weekly external backup stored off site.

Kerry

 

[Ted]

I get much faster sppeds with USB 2.0 over a 100 Mb LAN.

I have 1000/100 network, it is faster.

Why do you say USB is not a good solution?

Please read my response in this thread to Pegusus.

My recommended method is an internal drive with a daily backup and at least
a weekly external backup stored off site.

Backup every method you can, more of it is a must.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I have buried some 10 of my clients' internal hard disks in
the last two years, yet I make no claim that internal disks
die sooner than disks in a USB case. Our sample numbers
are far too small to draw any valid conclusion about their
respective reliability.

In your first reply to the OP you recommended an internal
backup solution. It seems you subsequently realised that
your advice was incomplete and that external solutions
would be required too.

In another part of this thread you say that you like your
backup process to be fully automated. So do I. My USB
backup processess dismounts the USB disk on completion,
allowing the user to disconnect it without any intervention
on his part.

 

[Anna]

Bob D.
You've received a goodly number of responses to your query re a backup
system. All of them have merit and should be seriously considered by you.
Allow me to give you (and others who may be contemplating establishing a
backup system) my thoughts on the matter.

In my opinion, the best backup system for the average home user and even
small business owner in most cases is having his or her desktop computer
equipped with two removable hard drives and using a disk imaging program
such as Symantec's Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image or Casper XP to
"clone" the contents of their working hard drive to another removable hard
drive.

While it is true that backup software programs can backup the files you have
created in your various programs, they are unable to backup your operating
system and (for the most part) the programs installed on your computer. Most
of us computer users have invested considerable time and effort in
installing our Windows operating system and programs, customizing Windows
and configuring our applications to work the way we want them to. And we're
all aware, are we not, that putting all of that back the way it was can be a
difficult, frustrating, and time-consuming effort.

So when the day comes (as it surely will!) that you need to restore your
day-to-day working hard drive because for one reason or another it has
become dysfunctional because of some miserable virus infection or other
system files corruption issue, it's a wonderful feeling to know that you
have at hand a perfectly good virus-free clone of your hard drive that can
easily restore your system to a functional state. Assuming your normal
working drive is non-defective hardware-wise, you can easily clone the
contents of the cloned drive back to your working drive. The process is
simple and relatively quick. And you're doing all this in one fell swoop,
the result of which is the creation of an exact duplicate of one's working
hard drive. And for added safety you can remove this newly-cloned hard drive
from the premises, not to mention making *unlimited* additional clones that
you may desire for near-absolute security. What we are discussing here is a
practical and cost-effective mechanism that backs up one's current system,
and does it simply, conveniently, effectively, and with reasonable speed.

Should your working drive become defective and need to be replaced, you
simply purchase a new hard drive and clone the contents of the cloned drive
to the new one. There's *no* need to partition and format the new drive;
*no* need to manually reinstall your operating system on the new drive; *no*
need to manually reinstall your programs and data files. None of this is
necessary. By simply cloning the previously-cloned hard drive to the new
drive you once again have two functioning hard drives at your disposal. And
a simple turn of the mobile rack's keylock allows the user to boot to either
hard drive following the cloning operation. What could be simpler or more
effective?

These mobile rack devices of which I speak are two-piece affairs - the rack
itself and the inner tray or caddy (in which the hard drive resides) that
slides into the rack. They come in all-aluminum models or a combination of
aluminum-plastic ranging in price from about $15 to $50. Naturally, your
desktop computer case will need two 5¼" bays that are available to house the
mobile racks. Mobile racks come in various versions, depending upon whether
the hard drive to be housed is an IDE/ATA, SATA, or SCSI device. A Google
search for "removable
hard drive mobile racks" will result in a wealth of information on these
products and their vendors. I'm aware of many users who have been using
inexpensive plastic mobile racks without any problems whatsoever.

Unfortunately, there is no industry standard involving the design and
construction of the racks nor the inner trays that contain the hard
drive.Consequently, there is (usually) no interchangeability of these trays
among the various manufacturers of mobile racks. Indeed, there is frequently
no interchangeability of the inner trays among different models from the
same manufacturer. This lack of interchangeability may not be an issue if
the user will be purchasing a particular model of mobile rack for a single
computer, however, if the user will have access to other computers, he or
she may want to settle on a specific brand and model of mobile rack that
will provide for tray interchangeability amongst different computers.

The installation of these devices is simplicity itself - no more difficult
than installing a CD-ROM. After they're installed you just plop the hard
drive the removable tray (caddy), make two simple connections (power & data
cable), and slide the tray into the mobile rack. The cost involved in
equipping one's desktop computer with two removable drives, including the
two mobile racks, the additional hard drive, and the disk imaging software,
while not trifling, is *not* an expensive proposition for most users. I
would estimate the cost would be in the neighborhood of $100 to $150. Note
that the removable hard drive mobile racks we are discussing are designed to
be installed in desktop computers and not laptop or notebook computers. The
size, weight, and design considerations of laptops/notebooks do not allow
for this hardware configuration.

Seriously consider this hardware configuration on your present or next
desktop computer. I can virtually guarantee that once you begin working with
two removable hard drives, you'll have but one regret and only one regret.
And that is you didn't have this arrangement on your previous computer or
computers. While the additional cost involved in configuring your desktop
computer with two mobile racks together with the additional hard drive and
disk imaging software is not negligible, I can assure you it's money well
spent. I have installed or participated in the installation of hundreds of
systems along the lines I have recommended and I can't recall a single user
ever expressing dissatisfaction with this configuration or regretting his or
her decision to so equip their computers with this hardware arrangement.
When you consider the enormous advantages of equipping your desktop computer
with two removable hard drives in terms of peace of mind and flexibility,
the added cost of so equipping your computer in this fashion practically
pales into insignificance.
Anna

P.S.
In response to your specific question as to whether you could retrieve
individual files from the image (cloned HD), the answer is "yes".

 

[Ted]

In your first reply to the OP you recommended an internal

backup solution. It seems you subsequently realised that
your advice was incomplete and that external solutions
would be required too.

There is no one solution for backups, you have to make
different type of backups.
You need internal and external, and every method you can.
But I will not use USB drive as a reliable method of backup.

When first Zip drives came out, I thought they were great
to backup important data, but before year end the drive froze.
Had to pay $14.95 to get an RMA, they did replace the drive for
free, but I threw it in the closet and never used again.

Same with USB, I have two Belkin USB to IDE adapter boxes,
and they are collecting dust.

In another part of this thread you say that you like your
backup process to be fully automated. So do I. My USB
backup processess dismounts the USB disk on completion,
allowing the user to disconnect it without any intervention
on his part.

I see your point, plug it in, click the backup button and go home.
In Win 98 you have restart computer to re-connect it.
I have huge backups, it has to be done in the middle
of the night.
I would have to have two USB drives, take one home
and bring it back in the morning. If it got banged
or dropped somewhere then kiss it goodbye.
A tape or DVD is much better to take home.

Each person or company have to make and think of
a good backup strategy, that would cover all scenarios.
USB is not the answer and I don't see it as one of the answers.
For some might be OK as one method of backups.

 

[Kerry Brown]

I have 1000/100 network, it is faster.

1000/100 while becoming more common is not the norm yet. None of my existing
customers have any plans to upgrade. I think the market penetration will be
slow as in my experience only new installs are going with it. Until video
becomes more common for business use I don't see a great need for most small
to medium networks to upgrade.

Please read my response in this thread to Pegusus.

I read your reply to Pegasus. I have have not had that experience with USB
drives. Of around 30 external drives I have set up for backup I have only
had one fail. It was an old firewire LaCie 20 GB from a Mac that I
re-formatted for a PC. The customer had the drive and didn't want to pay for
a new one. It was in a locked closet with a small server. They did a daily
backup of around 15 GB for almost a year before it gave up. It saw at least
a couple of years use on the Mac before that. I can't argue that you have
had bad luck with USB drives but I think it is just that, bad luck.

Kerry

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

I'll be upgrading to XP soon. I'd like to backup before I attempt this.
I have a DVD burner now.
I'm willing to purchase an external USB drive.
I prefer to make a hard drive image, in case my drive crashes.
I want to be able to retreive individual files from the image, without doing
a complete restore.

All options point to Acronis True Image. ALL of them.

I have an extra internal hard drive (small) and an external USB (large)
hard drive.

I do a weekly clone to the internal drive (which will automatically
boot if HD0 fails), a weekly image backup to the external hard drive
and a nightly differential backup to that drive PLUS I use a simple
program to keep my data files backed up to the cloned drive on a daily
(sometimes hourly) basis.

Easy, simple and cheap.