Image backups


B

bud--

I read a comparison of free image backup programs at:
http://dottech.org/95071/windows-best-free-file-drive-system-image-sector-backup-programs-review/
the recommended ones, in order, were
AOMEI Data Backuper
EaseUS Todo Backup
Macrium Reflect Free
Paragon Backup & Recover
DriveImage XML
(at least 3 of these have been recommended here)
(there are other comparisons for other types of software)

From the reviews I do not understand the difference between "image" and
"clone" backup.
- Does image restore a partition that is exactly identical to the
original and clone copy to a partition which can be a different size?
- Is the file position on the hard disk used as part of the protection
for some programs?
- With a larger target hard drive will both image and clone work?
- Why not use clone for everything?
- Can a FAT backup be restored to a NTFS drive?

=============================
A general comment was:
"Unfortunately, none of the programs have the ability to restore backups
to dissimilar hardware (i.e. a different computer)." (but this does
not apply to a different hard drive)

If restored to a hard disk with a different motherboard (a different
system) why isn't that like changes to the hardware, which requires
reactivation?

A work-around in the discussion was to
NOT boot into windows after you have done the restore (aka recovery).
You place your Windows CD into your PC, and let it boot into that. When
you are offered a repair via the Recovery Console, DO NOT choose that.
Proceed as if you are to install XP. It should list your partition and
ask what to do with it. One of the options will be to repair it.
What that Repair will do is, peep around at the new hardware, and then
install replacement drivers.
If all goes well, you will have transferred your full OS from one PC to
another.
and

[XP] If you had previously updated your IE to 7 or later, then the
Repair Install will try to fix IE back to IE6. And trust me it is not a
pretty sight after that happens. Windows will boot and run, but the
flakiness of IE will frustrate you, and you will spit the dummy, and do
a fresh Install of Windows out of frustration.
The solution is to ‘uninstall’ all recent versions of IE, so that it
reverts back to IE6
You have to do that prior to creating images, or cloning.
Comments?
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

bud-- said:
I read a comparison of free image backup programs at:
http://dottech.org/95071/windows-best-free-file-drive-system-image-secto
r-backup-programs-review/ []
From the reviews I do not understand the difference between "image" and
"clone" backup.
The terms are much confused, I think sometimes even interchanged.

_One_ interpretation is:

"image" is a single file, made by backup software, and which - which
needs the same software - can be restored (unwpacked, if you like) to
another disc. Often, the software has options for whether and how much
compression it does when creating the file (the more you do the smaller
the image file, but the longer the creation and restoration process
takes), and whether it does the whole disc, or only the parts that have
data on.

"clone" involves copying from one disc to another, making an identical
disc, that doesn't need unpacking - in theory once you'd made the clone,
you could replace the original disc by the one you cloned onto.
(Although some - maybe most? - cloning software can clone to a larger
[and I think some to a smaller] disc.)
- Does image restore a partition that is exactly identical to the
That's the idea, though it's not the image that restores, it's the
imaging software. Obviously, if you used an option that only imaged the
used data, the unused parts of the disc you restore to would have
different content.
original and clone copy to a partition which can be a different size?
I think both - or some flavours of both - can go to a different size;
the main difference being that one (and I think it's image) makes a
single file representing the whole disc (this file can itself be copied,
moved, etc. just like any other file), and needs the software that
created the image file to unpack it, whereas the other (I think it's
clone) creates a copy (e. g. sector by sector), and so you _don't_ need
the original software - or anything - to unpack it, as it isn't packed.
- Is the file position on the hard disk used as part of the protection
for some programs?
I came across that method many years ago; I don't know if any software
still uses it. I'm not saying it doesn't though!
- With a larger target hard drive will both image and clone work?
I think there are both imaging and cloning softwares that will work with
a larger target drive.
- Why not use clone for everything?
Because they're intended for different purposes. I think for backup, i.
e. archive copy against disaster, people tend to use image, because it
makes a smaller file that can be moved around easily (you can have
several images on the same backup drive, if it's big enough - say weekly
or daily ones); to duplicate a system, or replace a system's disc with a
larger one, you'd use clone. (Cloning would copy from one disc to
another; imaging would create an image, which would then have to be
unwrapped. Needing three drives.)
- Can a FAT backup be restored to a NTFS drive?
Don't know, sorry. I think so - I don't think _imaging_ _necessarily_
notes what filing system the system you're imaging uses, though some
imaging software _can_ image two or more partitions to a single image
file, and then restore them including the partitioning information.
(That's what I did, using Macrium.)
=============================
A general comment was:
"Unfortunately, none of the programs have the ability to restore
backups to dissimilar hardware (i.e. a different computer)." (but
this does not apply to a different hard drive)

If restored to a hard disk with a different motherboard (a different
system) why isn't that like changes to the hardware, which requires
reactivation?
I think it is, and would! (Restoring to a different hard drive, which is
then used with the same motherboard etc., might not be enough hardware
change to trigger the need for reactivation; I think changing the
motherboard [because it represents a change to lots of hardware, such as
'net ports, disc controllers, and lots else] _would_ usually trigger the
need.)
A work-around in the discussion was to
NOT boot into windows after you have done the restore (aka recovery).
You place your Windows CD into your PC, and let it boot into that. When
you are offered a repair via the Recovery Console, DO NOT choose that.
Proceed as if you are to install XP. It should list your partition and
ask what to do with it. One of the options will be to repair it.
What that Repair will do is, peep around at the new hardware, and then
install replacement drivers.
If all goes well, you will have transferred your full OS from one PC to
another.
I've seen that one before, though not tried it.
and
[XP] If you had previously updated your IE to 7 or later, then the
Repair Install will try to fix IE back to IE6. And trust me it is not a
pretty sight after that happens. Windows will boot and run, but the
flakiness of IE will frustrate you, and you will spit the dummy, and do
a fresh Install of Windows out of frustration.
The solution is to ‘uninstall’ all recent versions of IE, so that
it reverts back to IE6
You have to do that prior to creating images, or cloning.
(I think I've seen that one before too. Not being much of an IE user,
and especially now that all changes to XP are over anyway*, I've never
paid much attention.)
Comments?
(* I know about the POS hack.)
 
M

Mayayana

Image usually means copying and compressing
a partition to a single file, which can then be
restored to free space on a hard disk. Clone usually
refers to copying a disk (maybe also a partition)
from one disk to another.
Cloning would be useful if you're replacing your
hard disk. Imaging is useful for backup.

I use BootIt, which is $35. I'm *very* happy with it.
It does everything disk and boot related. Many
people do seem to be happy with the free programs,
but be sure to back up and be careful. Saving money
is not a good priority when you're talking about
such low-level software. Disk utilities are one of the
few things I pay for.

You can install an image to another PC, but there
could be issues.

1) If you don't have a full version
the copy may refuse to activate. Microsoft only
licenses OEM windows to a single
machine/motherboard. I don't know all the details
of how that works. You could try it. but if you
do something like image a Dell and try to restore
it to an HP or a white box, it may not accept that.

2) The file boot.ini controls booting. If you restore
an image to a different partition you may need to edit
that. Example: You image C drive and then restore it
to another section of the same hard disk so that you
can dual boot. Now the original is the first partition
and the new version is the second partition. If you
boot from partition #2 it will boot partition #1 because
that's what the boot.ini file says to do. you'd need
to edit boot.ini on the second system. (Details about
that are available online.)

3) A separate issue with moving Windows to another
PC, aside from licensing, is drivers. You need to uninstall
the motherboard drivers before you make an image. When
it's moved to another PC Windows will use generic drivers
until you can install the new ones. If you don't uninstall
those drivers it's likely the new install will die at a blue
screen. It's not a bad idea to also uninstall other drivers,
such as graphics, but those shouldn't prevent you from
booting.
There's also an issue moving from single core to multiple
core CPUs. Special treatment is required for Windows to
see the extra cores. I won't get into those details, since
it's unlikely you have a single core PC at this point.
 
B

bud--

bud-- said:
I read a comparison of free image backup programs at:
http://dottech.org/95071/windows-best-free-file-drive-system-image-secto
r-backup-programs-review/ []
From the reviews I do not understand the difference between "image"
and "clone" backup.
The terms are much confused, I think sometimes even interchanged.

_One_ interpretation is:

"image" is a single file, made by backup software, and which - which
needs the same software - can be restored (unwpacked, if you like) to
another disc. Often, the software has options for whether and how much
compression it does when creating the file (the more you do the smaller
the image file, but the longer the creation and restoration process
takes), and whether it does the whole disc, or only the parts that have
data on.

"clone" involves copying from one disc to another, making an identical
disc, that doesn't need unpacking - in theory once you'd made the clone,
you could replace the original disc by the one you cloned onto.
(Although some - maybe most? - cloning software can clone to a larger
[and I think some to a smaller] disc.)
After a lot of further reading......
I thought "clone" was another more complicated form of backup. But you
are right - from the fount of all knowledge -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_cloning
And a problem with both cloning and imaging of the OS is that the OS is
a moving target and also has files that are in use. The fix is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_Shadow_Copy_Service
That's the idea, though it's not the image that restores, it's the
imaging software. Obviously, if you used an option that only imaged the
used data, the unused parts of the disc you restore to would have
different content.


I think both - or some flavours of both - can go to a different size;
the main difference being that one (and I think it's image) makes a
single file representing the whole disc (this file can itself be copied,
moved, etc. just like any other file), and needs the software that
created the image file to unpack it, whereas the other (I think it's
clone) creates a copy (e. g. sector by sector), and so you _don't_ need
the original software - or anything - to unpack it, as it isn't packed.
From further reading - I agree that clone can be to a smaller/larger
drive and so can image restore
I came across that method many years ago; I don't know if any software
still uses it. I'm not saying it doesn't though!


I think there are both imaging and cloning softwares that will work with
a larger target drive.


Because they're intended for different purposes. I think for backup, i.
e. archive copy against disaster, people tend to use image, because it
makes a smaller file that can be moved around easily (you can have
several images on the same backup drive, if it's big enough - say weekly
or daily ones); to duplicate a system, or replace a system's disc with a
larger one, you'd use clone. (Cloning would copy from one disc to
another; imaging would create an image, which would then have to be
unwrapped. Needing three drives.)


Don't know, sorry. I think so - I don't think _imaging_ _necessarily_
notes what filing system the system you're imaging uses, though some
imaging software _can_ image two or more partitions to a single image
file, and then restore them including the partitioning information.
(That's what I did, using Macrium.)
NTFS vs FAT does not seem to be a problem.
=============================
A general comment was:
"Unfortunately, none of the programs have the ability to restore
backups to dissimilar hardware (i.e. a different computer)." (but
this does not apply to a different hard drive)

If restored to a hard disk with a different motherboard (a different
system) why isn't that like changes to the hardware, which requires
reactivation?
I think it is, and would! (Restoring to a different hard drive, which is
then used with the same motherboard etc., might not be enough hardware
change to trigger the need for reactivation; I think changing the
motherboard [because it represents a change to lots of hardware, such as
'net ports, disc controllers, and lots else] _would_ usually trigger the
need.)
Some of the paid programs say they will restore to new hardware (meaning
it will run, they don't mention acrivation).
I read information about the Macrum "Redeploy" - you restore the image
and then you run the Macrum Redeploy feature and it checks if different
drivers are needed for disk access or the CPU and tires to install them
from a windows disk or drivers the user had found. Machine should be
functional then, but may need changes for display and other.

Thanks for the answers.
A work-around in the discussion was to
NOT boot into windows after you have done the restore (aka recovery).
You place your Windows CD into your PC, and let it boot into that.
When you are offered a repair via the Recovery Console, DO NOT choose
that.
Proceed as if you are to install XP. It should list your partition and
ask what to do with it. One of the options will be to repair it.
What that Repair will do is, peep around at the new hardware, and then
install replacement drivers.
If all goes well, you will have transferred your full OS from one PC
to another.
I've seen that one before, though not tried it.
and
[XP] If you had previously updated your IE to 7 or later, then the
Repair Install will try to fix IE back to IE6. And trust me it is not
a pretty sight after that happens. Windows will boot and run, but the
flakiness of IE will frustrate you, and you will spit the dummy, and
do a fresh Install of Windows out of frustration.
The solution is to ‘uninstall’ all recent versions of IE, so that it
reverts back to IE6
You have to do that prior to creating images, or cloning.
(I think I've seen that one before too. Not being much of an IE user,
and especially now that all changes to XP are over anyway*, I've never
paid much attention.)
Comments?
(* I know about the POS hack.)
 
B

bud--

Image usually means copying and compressing
a partition to a single file, which can then be
restored to free space on a hard disk. Clone usually
refers to copying a disk (maybe also a partition)
from one disk to another.
Cloning would be useful if you're replacing your
hard disk. Imaging is useful for backup.
The cloning definition was too simple for me.
I use BootIt, which is $35. I'm *very* happy with it.
It does everything disk and boot related. Many
people do seem to be happy with the free programs,
but be sure to back up and be careful. Saving money
is not a good priority when you're talking about
such low-level software. Disk utilities are one of the
few things I pay for.
I am somewhat paranoid about partition utilities. But the high-rated
free partition (and image backup) programs are often free versions of
pay-for programs. That is true of the first 4 programs in my list. The
top 3 pay-for partition utilities in one evaluation I ran across were
made by the companies in my list. BootIt was somewhat further down (but
it wasn't the current version).

I have Partition Magic 8, which I was using about 10 years ago. I think
it works on everything I have now. I think it was bought by Symantec
and lost or ruined.
You can install an image to another PC, but there
could be issues.

1) If you don't have a full version
the copy may refuse to activate. Microsoft only
licenses OEM windows to a single
machine/motherboard. I don't know all the details
of how that works. You could try it. but if you
do something like image a Dell and try to restore
it to an HP or a white box, it may not accept that.

2) The file boot.ini controls booting. If you restore
an image to a different partition you may need to edit
that. Example: You image C drive and then restore it
to another section of the same hard disk so that you
can dual boot. Now the original is the first partition
and the new version is the second partition. If you
boot from partition #2 it will boot partition #1 because
that's what the boot.ini file says to do. you'd need
to edit boot.ini on the second system. (Details about
that are available online.)

3) A separate issue with moving Windows to another
PC, aside from licensing, is drivers. You need to uninstall
the motherboard drivers before you make an image. When
it's moved to another PC Windows will use generic drivers
until you can install the new ones. If you don't uninstall
those drivers it's likely the new install will die at a blue
screen. It's not a bad idea to also uninstall other drivers,
such as graphics, but those shouldn't prevent you from
booting.
There's also an issue moving from single core to multiple
core CPUs. Special treatment is required for Windows to
see the extra cores. I won't get into those details, since
it's unlikely you have a single core PC at this point.
I would think boot.ini on a vanilla installation wouldn't be a big problem.
The other 2 certainly could be.
As in my other post, Macrum Redeploy looks at whether disk access needs
other drivers (which would make the new system not too useful), and
whether the CPU needs new drivers.
Thanks for the answer (and others here and on another newsgroup).
 
M

Mayayana

| I am somewhat paranoid about partition utilities. But the high-rated
| free partition (and image backup) programs are often free versions of
| pay-for programs. That is true of the first 4 programs in my list. The
| top 3 pay-for partition utilities in one evaluation I ran across were
| made by the companies in my list. BootIt was somewhat further down (but
| it wasn't the current version).
|
If you're going to do disk image backup then you
probably want to partition. normally one would image
the OS and maybe the installed software, but you'll
want data on other partitions. Otherwise, when you
image you'll end up with a gigantic backup, spanning
many DVDs, and the data is likely to be outdated when
and if you ever restore the image. Data is best backed
up separately.

I haven't read up on ratings for these programs, but
anything that does disk image backup should also be
able to do copying (clone) and creation/deletion/moving
of partitions.
My impression is that BootIt is simpler than some
other programs -- less hand holding -- which is a
challenge if people don't learn about how partitioning
works. I don't find it difficult to use, but you have to
know about partitions, active partition, etc. Some of
the disk imaging programs seem to have bloated into
auto-backup programs. That approach doesn't
require much knowledge, but neither does it provide
the kind of backup one gets with disk imaging.

| I would think boot.ini on a vanilla installation wouldn't be a big
problem.

It's no problem if you're just going to image C drive
and restore to C drive. It only becomes an issue if
you're multi-booting and have Windows versions on
multiple partitions. But even then it's not a big deal.
One just has to be aware of it. BootIt has boot.ini
editing built in. I imagine the other programs probably
do, too.
 
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P

(PeteCresswell)

Per bud--:
And a problem with both cloning and imaging of the OS is that the OS is
a moving target and also has files that are in use. The fix is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_Shadow_Copy_Service
I use ShadowProtect, but not in "Continuous" mode.

I decide when a system is "Good" (i.e. acting normally, not infected
with anything per BitDefender, MalwareBytes, and Avast) and then make an
image of that system for later recovery if/when needed.

I don't want a day-to-day-updated image because when the system becomes
infected or corrupt the image also suffers... and what good for recover
is an image of a corrupt and/or infected system

The corollary to that strategy is that one has to learn not to keep data
on the System drive.

I'm pretty good at that, but still fail from time-to-time. But
ShadowProtect bails me out if I had the presence of mind to take a
temporary System image just before re-imaging from backup. This is
because ShadowProtect will let me browse that temporary image after
recovery is complete and retrieve any data files that I mistakenly left
on the System drive.
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <54d54892$0$41593$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com>, bud--
And a problem with both cloning and imaging of the OS is that the OS is
a moving target and also has files that are in use. The fix is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_Shadow_Copy_Service
Yes; on the whole, image (or clone) the OS when it isn't running - i. e.
having booted from (a disc or similar made by) the imaging/cloning
software. I think there _may_ be image/cloning softwares that run from
within a running system (the above may be something to do with it?), but
I feel much happier doing it as I've described. The restore after
disaster even more so.
[]
From further reading - I agree that clone can be to a smaller/larger
drive and so can image restore
Agreed. (I restored - from image - to a larger drive.)
[]
Some of the paid programs say they will restore to new hardware
(meaning it will run, they don't mention acrivation).
Depends why you're doing the imaging/cloning: just against disaster
recovery (usually HD failure), or for moving to new hardware (not
_necessarily_ to pirate [or at least break OEM licence] Windows, though
that's _usually_ the reason I gather!).

[In my case - pre-installed OEM XP SP3, restored to same system other
than bigger HD - no activation was necessary, though on first run some
sort of manufacturer (Samsung) repair utility cut in. (Which seemed to
restore a fully-working system. After which - after tweaking partition
sizes to better use the new disc - the first thing I did was do
_another_ image.)]
I read information about the Macrum "Redeploy" - you restore the image
and then you run the Macrum Redeploy feature and it checks if different
(I haven't heard about that one; sounds useful. Possibly a hand-holding
version of the step-by-step process someone described in this thread
[just below in fact], involving an XP CD; possibly something better.)
drivers are needed for disk access or the CPU and tires to install them
from a windows disk or drivers the user had found. Machine should be
functional then, but may need changes for display and other.

Thanks for the answers.
You're welcome. Paul's will be more authoritative than mine; Mayayana's
probably too. They come from different viewpoints, but both have far
more experience of actually doing than I do - I've just picked up and
muddled through over the years.
A work-around in the discussion was to
NOT boot into windows after you have done the restore (aka recovery).
You place your Windows CD into your PC, and let it boot into that.
When you are offered a repair via the Recovery Console, DO NOT choose
that.
Proceed as if you are to install XP. It should list your partition and
ask what to do with it. One of the options will be to repair it.
What that Repair will do is, peep around at the new hardware, and then
install replacement drivers.
If all goes well, you will have transferred your full OS from one PC
to another.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

TV and radio presenters are just like many people, except they tend to wear
make-up all the time. Especially the radio presenters. - Eddie Mair, in Radio
Times 25-31 August 2012
 
A

Andy

Regarding #1. Restoring an image from one computer to another could not work due to different hardware.
 
P

Paul

Andy said:
Regarding #1. Restoring an image from one computer to another could not work due to different hardware.
The restore operation works. The files are put back.
An image restore is a mechanical operation, and would treat
a data disk with about as much care as an OS disk.

The system tries to boot.

It automatically discovers new hardware on the "different" machine.

The storage ports are standard enough, that disk drivers for the
Southbridge are likely to be available.

If the new machine has a different brand (NVidia versus ATI) of video
subsystem, the OS has a VESA fallback driver it can use. That gives
limited resolutions, like 640x480 or 800x600. On an OS like Windows 8,
they offer 1024x768 that way.

Now it comes time to compute the hardware hash. Oops. Major
changes. Need to reactivate, using the license key.

At this point, things become fuzzy. On some system setups,
the OS may freeze at this point. In others, you may get a prompt
to activate within the next three days.

There are softwares which "offer to restore to dissimilar hardware",
but it is unclear which of these steps that software is fixing.
Modifying the hardware hash computed on the original OS, so activation
passes, Microsoft wouldn't be very happy about that (as that would
be the equivalent of an "activation crack). Adding drivers
for the dissimilar hardware, that doesn't really solve all that
many problems. Since I have no software here that does "restore to
dissimilar hardware", I can't really say what it's doing.

Paul
 
B

bud--

In message <54d54892$0$41593$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com>, bud--

Yes; on the whole, image (or clone) the OS when it isn't running - i. e.
having booted from (a disc or similar made by) the imaging/cloning
software. I think there _may_ be image/cloning softwares that run from
within a running system (the above may be something to do with it?), but
I feel much happier doing it as I've described. The restore after
disaster even more so.
I think the first 4 backup programs in my list, where I read further
information, did the backup under normal windows. For backup of the OS
EaseUS said it used volume-shadow-copy (which I didn't understand when I
first read it). I think they all have to.

The restore of an OS has to boot from separate media. The ones I looked
at used Linux or a limited version of windows (WinPE).

Backup/restore is more complicated than I expected.
 
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M

Mayayana

| Regarding #1. Restoring an image from one computer to another could not
work due to different hardware.

As Paul said, there's no problem doing it. You just
need to uninstall the motherboard drivers first, before
making the image. XP should handle the rest.

Then there's the issue of Product Activation. If
Windows is a corporate copy it's no problem. If
it's full license you can get a new code from MS.
But if it's an OEM copy of Windows there's no way
(at least not legally) to use it on the new machine.
But it's not because it doesn't work. It's only because
Microsoft has crippled the system, causing it to
malfunction on a new machine.
(That's assuming the new PC doesn't have the
same motherboard model. Then you might be able to
get a new authorization code.)
 
P

Paul

Mayayana said:
| Regarding #1. Restoring an image from one computer to another could not
work due to different hardware.

As Paul said, there's no problem doing it. You just
need to uninstall the motherboard drivers first, before
making the image. XP should handle the rest.

Then there's the issue of Product Activation. If
Windows is a corporate copy it's no problem. If
it's full license you can get a new code from MS.
But if it's an OEM copy of Windows there's no way
(at least not legally) to use it on the new machine.
But it's not because it doesn't work. It's only because
Microsoft has crippled the system, causing it to
malfunction on a new machine.
(That's assuming the new PC doesn't have the
same motherboard model. Then you might be able to
get a new authorization code.)
On an older OS, such as Win2K, we had the option of
deleting the "ENUM" hive, which was the quickest way
of blowing away the detected drivers. I've used that
technique when moving Win2K from machine to machine
(from my P4 to my Core2, after a hardware upgrade).

Back in those days, what helped was if both motherboards
had an Intel Southbridge (so the same driver worked with
your disk, on both the old and new motherboards). If moving
to dissimilar hardware, I would plug a Promise IDE card
into the old motherboard, install the driver for it, and
boot the OS (one time) from that card. Then, move the Promise IDE
card to the new computer. Doing that, ensured there was a working
disk driver on the new system. (I call that a
"bounce install" for lack of a better term. As the
Promise IDE card is only used long enough, to get the
OS booting on the second machine.)

Later OSes are a little more flexible on disk drivers.
You can "reset" driver detection on the newer OSes, using
the reg keys like these. But it's also possible, if the
OS was "moved" from one computer to another, it would
try all of these modes, anyway.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-57789.html

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\pciide\Start <== 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\msahci\Start <== 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStorV\Start <== 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStor\Start <== 0

HTH,
Paul
 
M

Mayayana

| On an older OS, such as Win2K, we had the option of
| deleting the "ENUM" hive, which was the quickest way
| of blowing away the detected drivers.

Yes, I remember doing that with Win98. I was surprised
with XP that it no longer worked.
 
A

Andy

A minimal fuctioning computer may be acceptable to some folks, but not most.

All o.s.es store info about hardware when they are installed.

That info is vital.

No exceptions.

Andy
 
A

Andy

A minimal fuctioning computer may be acceptable to some folks, but not most.

All o.s.es store info about hardware when they are installed.

That info is vital.

No exceptions.

Andy
 
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P

Paul

Andy said:
A minimal fuctioning computer may be acceptable to some folks, but not most.

All o.s.es store info about hardware when they are installed.

That info is vital.

No exceptions.

Andy
You could move Win2K around, and there were techniques
that made it relatively easy.

On an older OS, you could delete the enum tree, which
contains all the discovered hardware. Then shutdown and
boot the disk on another computer.

On Win2K, there were profiles. The profiles were intended
to support docked computers (laptop + dock). If you
were using the laptop alone, you could use one
hardware profile. If using laptop + dock, you could
select a second profile at boot time. There was a menu
for selecting the profile. I still have a Win2K install
on this machine (my maintenance OS), and it has a total of
four profile entries I can see at boot time. One was for
a P4 machine, one for Core2 on VIA chipset, one for Core2
on Inten chipset. I only use one profile, and the other
three could easily be deleted. But this is an example
of a non-activation controlled OS. There was a license
key for Win2K, but no activation scheme. So you could
move it around, with a minimal amount of work.

On WinXP, there were profiles, but the command in the
menu there allowed a profile to be cloned, but there
wasn't an option to create an "empty" profile. Which
ruined the useful part of that function.

You could probably have deleted the enum section on
any of those OSes, but that would require working on
the OS from a second working machine setup. I never tried
that.

On the later OSes, the activation scheme makes it a bit
more difficult. A person who was annoyed by that, could
always use an activation hack, for their paid-for OS.

Windows 10 is shaping up to be intrusive enough, it
won't need activation to protect it, as nobody is
going to want it. The laundry list of issues will
grow, as we reach Sept.2015. The first issue, is
we won't have any control over Windows Update. It'll
install updates when it feels like, and schedule reboots
when it feels like. Say I'm doing a long compute job
(compute PI to a billion digits). I'll be sitting there
enjoying my coffee and see "will reboot computer in
24 hours" pop up. Now I have to make a mad scramble to avoid
losing my calculation. We'll see more obnoxious features
as September approaches.

Paul
 
M

Mayayana

|A minimal fuctioning computer may be acceptable to some folks, but not
most.
|
| All o.s.es store info about hardware when they are installed.
|
| That info is vital.
|
| No exceptions.
|

There's nothing limited about moving an OS to
another machine. It works. With caveats, but it
works. XP is fairly resilient. It has no trouble
dealing with new hardware as long as you can
deal with installing drivers. If that were not so
you'd never be able to replace your graphics
card/chip, sound card/chip, etc.
 
B

bud--

There seem to be some programs that claim to be able to do that.
I just looked up Acronis True Image (for example), and it says this:

Migrate or restore to a new PC
Restore your full disk image to a different make or model PC
Migrate your system from one PC to another, including bare-metal restore to
a new machine.
At least 2 other paid-for programs say they can restore to new hardware.
In both cases it is not the cheapest version.

AOMEI Data Backuper

Macrium Reflect
from an earlier post, restore then run "ReDeploy" which
installs disk drivers if the hardware is much different, like RAID
installs CPU drivers
http://www.macrium.com/help/v5/how_to/redeploy/redeploy_a_system_to_new_hardware.htm

I have no idea if this is right
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_cloning
Some operating systems are not well suited to changes in hardware, so
that a clone of Windows XP for example may object to being booted on a
machine with a different motherboard, graphics card and network card,
especially if non-generic drivers are used. Microsoft's solution to this
is Sysprep, a utility which runs hardware detection scans and sets the
SID and computer name freshly when the machine boots. Microsoft
recommends that Sysprep be set up on all machines before cloning, rather
than allow third party programs to configure them.

Would seem like restoring to a different motherboard would be somewhat
common when a motherboard dies.
 
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B

bud--

This is a possible feature list I came up with.
backup disk, partition, folder, file
full, incremental, differential
clone, image
exact sector-by-sector(incl empty/deleted) or data (sectors being used)
what to backup to (anything with a drive letter?)
compress
encrypt
test integrity
restore a file out of an image
schedule, automatic shutdown
restore disk, is Linux, WinPE
interface/easy to use
OSes supported
---------------------
GPT - UEFI/FAT/NTFS
restore to different hardware
partition management
partition alignment
wipe disk
 
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