For cooling, which is better - open case or sealed case with fans?

M

muzician21

Assuming a tower case, which is going to keep all the hardware cooler,
the case open on both sides or a sealed case with a pusher on one end
and a big puller on the other?

Thanks for all input.
 
J

John Doe

muzician21 said:
Assuming a tower case, which is going to keep all the hardware
cooler, the case open on both sides or a sealed case with a pusher
on one end and a big puller on the other?

Neither. There is no more compelling argument IMO for
positive/negative pressure in your case then the argument that you
do not want negative pressure working against your power supply fan.
The other issue, brought up not long ago, pointed out that tunneled
air can do more good than components in an open case with stagnant
air around them. Others might fill you in on the details of that
one. Also, I use a temperature and fan speed monitoring utility.
Knowing what is going on is very useful for getting it right.
 
D

Dave

muzician21 said:
Assuming a tower case, which is going to keep all the hardware cooler,
the case open on both sides or a sealed case with a pusher on one end
and a big puller on the other?

Thanks for all input.

Sealed case with fans. Temperature in case will be warmer, but airflow in
sealed case will keep individual components cooler, and THAT is what you
want. -Dave
 
M

Mike Walsh

A closed case with fans will keep the hardware cooler because air is forced through the case instead of relying on convection to keep things cool. My main computer has two exhaust fans and no pusher. I leave the front plastic cover off to reduce restriction of the air flow. My processor is currently running at 32 deg. C and the motherboard is 29 deg. C.
 
J

JR Weiss

It depends on the design of the case, including fans and interior layout...

Old airplane engines were air-cooled by airflow over the cylinders that
simply stuck out in the breeze. Later, cowls were put over them to reduce
air drag. Some intelligent people discovered that a cowled engine also
stayed cooler, and that evolved into today's closely cowled engines in
almost all piston engine designs. However, those designs must be
deliberately designed to ensure cooling air to all the cylinders.

Likewise, an open case will likely adequately cool a low-power system.
However, in a higher power system, airflow through the case has to be
engineered to cool the motherboard chips ("Northbridge" and "Southbridge"),
graphics processor (GPU), and hard drives as well as the CPU. If you look
in a higher power system these days, you will find large finned heat sinks
on all these components. Good airflow over all these components is crucial,
and may be enhanced by a closed case with well-placed fans.
 
C

CBFalconer

JR said:
It depends on the design of the case, including fans and interior
layout...

Old airplane engines were air-cooled by airflow over the cylinders
that simply stuck out in the breeze. Later, cowls were put over
them to reduce air drag. Some intelligent people discovered that
a cowled engine also stayed cooler, and that evolved into today's
closely cowled engines in almost all piston engine designs.
However, those designs must be deliberately designed to ensure
cooling air to all the cylinders.

Likewise, an open case will likely adequately cool a low-power
system. However, in a higher power system, airflow through the
case has to be engineered to cool the motherboard chips
("Northbridge" and "Southbridge"), graphics processor (GPU), and
hard drives as well as the CPU. If you look in a higher power
system these days, you will find large finned heat sinks on all
these components. Good airflow over all these components is
crucial, and may be enhanced by a closed case with well-placed
fans.

Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:

<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
<http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
<http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> (taming google)
<http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/> (newusers)
 
J

JR Weiss

CBFalconer said:
Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:

Please do not tell me how to post. If someone top-posts, I will continue to
respond in the same way so there is less confusion in the thread.

Please do not try to play "net cop." If you don't like the way I post, then
killfile me.
 
B

blank nym

Thu, 9 Apr 2009 04:55:13 -0000: written by "JR Weiss"
Please do not tell me how to post. If someone top-posts, I will continue to
respond in the same way so there is less confusion in the thread.

Please do not try to play "net cop." If you don't like the way I post, then
killfile me.

So long-established Usenet convention is irrelevant to you?

Quit being so easily offended and calling people names because someone
took the time to point you in the right direction.
 
J

JR Weiss

So long-established Usenet convention is irrelevant to you?

Quit being so easily offended and calling people names because someone
took the time to point you in the right direction.

I'm not offended. I am fully aware that top-posting is as long-established
a convention as is bottom-posting. Both conventions predate the public
Internet by several years. Neither one has been officially established as
"proper" or "improper," except in the minds of a few self-appointed net
cops.
 
J

JR Weiss

I started my first BBS in 1989, in a Desqview window with a 9600 bps modem.
Didn't find Windoze until '92 or the Internet 'til '93...

On-topic part: Didn't need any fancy cooling for the Z80 machine with dual
5" SSSD floppies, or the 286 machine with EMS expansion board. Desqview
"rocked" with 2 MB RAM (but installing all those DIPP chips was a pain)!


I agree . . . I've been using Usenet for 13 years and top posting use to be
the norm. Before that I used the BBS with DOS based mail readers and you had
to wait till the next day to get a reply. Then Netscape Navigator came out
and the
Internet killed the BBS's
 
J

JR Weiss

I started my first BBS in 1989, in a Desqview window with a 9600 bps modem.
Didn't find Windoze until '92 or the Internet 'til '93...

On-topic part: Didn't need any fancy cooling for the Z80 machine with dual
5" SSSD floppies, or the 286 machine with EMS expansion board. Desqview
"rocked" with 2 MB RAM (but installing all those DIPP chips was a pain)!


I agree . . . I've been using Usenet for 13 years and top posting use to be
the norm. Before that I used the BBS with DOS based mail readers and you had
to wait till the next day to get a reply. Then Netscape Navigator came out
and the
Internet killed the BBS's
 
S

SteveH

JR said:
I started my first BBS in 1989, in a Desqview window with a 9600 bps
modem. Didn't find Windoze until '92 or the Internet 'til '93...
Well, when I used to send messages from my Difference engine..
 
J

John Doe

John said:
I agree . . . I've been using Usenet for 13 years and top posting
use to be the norm. Before that I used the BBS with DOS based mail
readers and you had to wait till the next day to get a reply.

Barking at everyone who top posts is a bad idea IMO but... The
reason posting in context is so widely used and respected here on
USENET is because it is the best form for sharing/discussing
technical information.
Then Netscape Navigator came out and the Internet killed the BBS's

Microsoft management has a similar view about the PC operating
system. Microsoft is trying hard to turn our PCs into entertainment
machines, because entertainment is much more popular and that way
Microsoft can make more money.

The web is much more popular, but the USENET is doing fine.

Threaded conversations/topics and posting in context sets USENET
apart from practically every web forum I have seen. Maybe someday,
the masses willing, web-based forums will realize how much better
posting in context is for meaningful communication. But I doubt it.
Besides, who needs moderation.

Have fun.
 
C

CBFalconer

JR said:
.... snip ...

I'm not offended. I am fully aware that top-posting is as
long-established a convention as is bottom-posting. Both
conventions predate the public Internet by several years.
Neither one has been officially established as "proper" or
"improper," except in the minds of a few self-appointed net cops.

Did you read the following referances, that I posted?

<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
<http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
 
A

anewbornman

Assuming a tower case, which is going to keep all the hardware cooler,
the case open on both sides or a sealed case with a pusher on one end
and a big puller on the other?

Thanks for all input.

I have been learning about computers and the way that I understand it,
is that you should always have a closed case with fans due to factors
such as dirt, and other things that might get into it.
 
J

JR Weiss

CBFalconer said:
Did you read the following referances, that I posted?

I've seen them, or similar ones, in the past...

It's one man's opinion, and:

"Note however that this document is not intended to be a general guide to
netiquette..."


Two men's opinions, with no source reference, or even a rationale behind the
opinion...


Again, no source or history of "that's the standard," which reduces it to
yet another man's opinion.


Top-posting has been another standard for many years (at least as early as
1989, though likely earlier). Top-posting vs bottom-posting is simply
another issue of preferences between 2 "standards," just like Mac vs Windoze
or AMD vs Intel or ATI vs nVidia. And like each of those debates, each has
its proponents and "fanboys" (proponents advocate one side while accepting
the merits of the other; fanboys take the "there's only 1 right answer"
position). Each has its advantages and disadvantages (e.g., top-posting is
easier for finding the quick update/answer for people who have been
following the thread).
 
B

blank nym

Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:15:22 -0000: written by "JR Weiss"
I'm not offended. I am fully aware that top-posting is as long-established
a convention as is bottom-posting. Both conventions predate the public
Internet by several years. Neither one has been officially established as
"proper" or "improper," except in the minds of a few self-appointed net
cops.

Do you have any references to verify this? I have never seen any and
your statement is the first in over 15 years on Usenet that I have seen
someone state that it is acceptable.
 
J

JR Weiss

Do you have any references to verify this? I have never seen any and
your statement is the first in over 15 years on Usenet that I have seen
someone state that it is acceptable.

No references, other than my experience. Since I have seen no official
references regarding the UNacceptability of top-posting, I don't really
expect any that specifically say it is acceptable, and neither do I have any
intention of seeking them out.
 
D

DevilsPGD

Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:15:22 -0000: written by "JR Weiss"


Do you have any references to verify this? I have never seen any and
your statement is the first in over 15 years on Usenet that I have seen
someone state that it is acceptable.

It really varies by newsgroup. In the microsoft.* groups topposting is
closer to the norm then anything else, although it varies by poster.

It's generally a lot less pain to either follow along with the existing
convention in a thread if you're quoting multiple posters, if you're
just quoting one then trip properly first and use your preferred form.
 
K

Kenneth

Replies are always in *reference* to the previous article. References are=
alawys listed at the bottom of an article. No
one read's the references first. If you read a post and came in the =
middle THEN you can scroll down and read the
referenced message. It's backwards to bottom post.

Hi John,

Perhaps you can explain this to me:

We all know the "bottom vs. top" posting debate, but there
is a third aspect of the issue:

People often "inter-post" that is, they insert multiple
comments within the body of the text to which they are
responding as a whole.

In my many years reading Usenet, I have yet to see anyone
"inter-post" by placing their comment above the specific
section to which they are responding.

Might you know why?

Also, when you enter multiple responses interspersed within
the post to which you are responding, do you put your
comments above the specific section to which you are
reacting?

Many thanks,
 

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