FAT32 v. NTFS

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tony Stanford
  • Start date Start date
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005,17:05:31, here_and_there wrote


Right. Presumably you've used it, and it lives up to its claims?
Yes, used it several times and no problems. But it is not cheap.
There are some freebie programs with similar ability but not always
considered user friendly e.g. http://www.ranish.com/part/

Also
http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/7tools-Partition-Manager/3000-2242_2-10307716.html
is shareware but may do the job (not clear from web page whether there
are any limits on unregistered copies)
 
Yes, used it several times and no problems. But it is not cheap.
There are some freebie programs with similar ability but not always
considered user friendly e.g. http://www.ranish.com/part/

Also
http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/7tools-Partition-Manager/3000-2242_2-10307716.html
is shareware but may do the job (not clear from web page whether there
are any limits on unregistered copies)

Hmmm! The problem I run into is:
If user adds other partitions to an already defined drive,
they do not always show up in Windows explorer. When that
happens (and that is most of the time) I usually have to
reinstall in order to have the OS add the data needed to the
"MountedDevices" key in the registry and be read into
explorer. Also on rename of a logical, the explorer window
will not allow me to view the renamed partition unless I
refresh the explorer window. What is causing these issues?
 
A very helpful and interesting reply. I've ordered the machine now, and
it will come as one big 80gig C:, NTFS.

Most do. That's how MS has been telling us OEMs to do it since XP
came out, the idea being that our clients may have the ability to earn
and pay for a computer, but would be confused by "too many letters".
Are you suggesting I should partition it into smaller partitions to
increase performance? Would it make much difference?

It's what I'd do, but it's also a YMMV thing. As to difference; what
I find is that the speed stays the same from when the HD is new and
almost empty, to when it's acquired 70G of bumph. It gets rid of the
"I should delete things I don't need to speed up the system", or
rather, makes that apply only to what is running resident.

The other difference is data survival and recoverability, which to my
mind is the biggie. Other useful effects are easier maintenance
(thinks like ChkDsk, Defrag) as what is "always in use" is small
enough to wait for, and as the bulk of the HD is not always in use, it
can be managed in the background.

Then there's the quality of maintenance and recovery tools, which suck
for NTFS. As long as your FATxx volumes don't cross the 137G line,
you can access data from DOS mode and use interactive Scandisk rather
than the "trust me" ChkDsk, plus DiskEdit etc. for manual repair.

Malware management is less of a big deal these days, if you have
access to and use Bart PE's boot CDR builder and tools that you plug
into that, instead of relying on DOS mode diskette boot as your
maintenance OS for formal malware cleanup.

The thing is, while the machine is "fresh" is the time to do this, as
the process is destructive (or at least potentially so).

Check that you get a real (as oppsed to "genuine") Windows CD, though,
because otherwise you lose control over the installation process.

A "real" (fully-capable) OS installation disk can:
- be booted and run as Recovery Console
- be booted and from there, do a "repair" install
- be booted and from there, do a full install
- be accessed via Windows, to add/remove Windows components
- be accessed via Windows, to install Recovery Console to hard drive
- be accessed via Windows, and \i386 be copied to hard drive
- be accessed from DOS, for custom install via "answer file"

A "genuine" Windows CD just means MS got paid.

So the second solves MS's problems but does nothing to solve yours,
other than preventing MS making their problems your problems by
busting you for piracy. The idea is that market forces should crunch
vendors who fail to supply "real" CDs, but those market forces depend
on pre-sale visibility - and the nature of what OEMs ship with PCs is
arranged behind closed doors with MS and hidden from the pubic.

Phone the sales droids of a big OEM vendor knows to provide only a
"recovery" disk that wipes the HD and re-creates their factory
install, and ask them, in detail, what their OS CD can do. I'm 90%
certain you'll be fobbed off with "
And is NTFS like FAT32 - if you repartition, you have to scrub the disk
and reinstall everything?

With BING from www.bootitng.com you can:
- rapidly create and format FAT16, FAT32 (> 32G) and NTFS
- ensure NTFS coversion won't leave you with 512-byte clusters
- delete, copy and image (back up) these partitions and volumes
- resize and slide these partitions and volumes

On interoperability between FATxx and NTFS; you can convert from FATxx
to NTFS, but there's no way back that doesn't destroy the contents of
the NTFS volume. I find that another strong reason to avoid NTFS.

If you do go for it, check youhave everything you need first - and if
older than SP2, turnon firewall straight after the build, before going
online (SP2 will do that for you)


------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
Forget http://cquirke.blogspot.com and check out a
better one at http://topicdrift.blogspot.com instead!
 
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user), <[email protected]>, the tailed,
popeyed parakeet, and ivory dealer, emitted:

The other difference is data survival and recoverability, which to my
mind is the biggie. Other useful effects are easier maintenance
(thinks like ChkDsk, Defrag) as what is "always in use" is small
enough to wait for, and as the bulk of the HD is not always in use, it
can be managed in the background.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! You ****ing gormless cuntfart.
 
[/QUOTE]

I don't use PM, I use BING instead - and yes, I can vouch for it.

I'd use Boot It New Generation (BING) from www.bootitng.com as I find
is does everything that PM does, is easy to use, is much cheaper, and
the folks who write it just seem a lot less bloody-minded.

BING is also shareware, and will nag you if you use it as a boot
manager, but it's not a problem if using it as a partition manager.

You'd first download BING and let it build itself as a bootable disk
(CDR or 1.44M). When you boot that disk, it will prompt you to
install to hard drive (as a boot manager). If you cancel that, you
can use it as a partition manager without installing it.

A partition manager creates, formats, resizes, slides, copies, deletes
and images (backs up) partitions and volumes.

A boot manager extends the standard system boot functionality, so that
you can have more than the usual 4-partition limit, you can select
which partition to boot, and you can hide partitions from each other.

The normal system allows you to have up to 4 partitions. In the world
of MS OSs, partitions are either primary (bootable, contains a single
volume) or extended (not bootable, contains one or more logical
volumes). Boot managers such as BING might extend this to allow more
than 4 partitions, but my needs don't require this.

To "boot" is to be loaded directly by the system BIOS, via that BIOS's
proxy, the Master Boot Record (MBR). The MBR code is in the first
sector of the hard drive, and it is this that reads the standard table
of up to 4 partitions. By replacing this standard system code, or
being an entity this code can boot from a partition, a boot manager is
positioned to do more things than would otherwise be possible.

Anyway, it's important to be clear on the difference between what
boots, and where the operating system (OS) is. Yes, you can locate
(the bulk of) an OS on a logical volume in an extended partition, but
it won't boot directly from MBR - there has to be a footprint within a
primary partition that gains control from the pre-OS system code, and
transfers this control to the rest of the OS.
Hmmm! The problem I run into is:
If user adds other partitions to an already defined drive,
they do not always show up in Windows explorer. When that
happens (and that is most of the time) I usually have to
reinstall in order to have the OS add the data needed to the
"MountedDevices" key in the registry and be read into
explorer. Also on rename of a logical, the explorer window
will not allow me to view the renamed partition unless I
refresh the explorer window. What is causing these issues?

I don't know, but I can tell you I don't see that problem working with
BING as a partition manager. Because BING operates outside of
Windows, it avoids the "changes are only seen after restart" issue,
and because using it as a partition manager only (i.e. not installing
it as a boot manager), the system level is unchanged so that OSs such
as Windows don't have to learn any new tricks.

Some boot manager schemes use non-standard partition types - I think
GoBack does this too - and that can lead to these sort of problems.
Also, if you have to have non-standard MBR code in place (as is often
the case with boot managers), anything that re-asserts the standard
code (e.g. FDisk /MBR, Recovery Console FixMBR, many av clean-ups,
installing OSs, ye olde boot sector viruses) can break this.

IMO, that risk is too high a cost, and as I don't need hidden
partitions or more than 4 partition entries, I don't need to risk it.


------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
 
relic said:
In a network, the file system on the "other" system(s) is irrelevant.
Entering Network Neighbourhood on a Win98 computer, I can connect to the
98 computer as well as the other computers on a network. If the 98
computer is dual-boot with XP, with XP on a NTFS partition, can I read
this partition from 98?
 
the gangly said:
Entering Network Neighbourhood on a Win98 computer, I can connect to
the 98 computer as well as the other computers on a network. If the
98 computer is dual-boot with XP, with XP on a NTFS partition, can I
read this partition from 98?

What the **** didn't you understand about 'In a network, the file system on
the "other" system(s) is irrelevant', you ****ing retard?
 
NTFS or Fat has nothing to do with it. The server computer provides the file, assuming the server can read it's own disk it provides the file. The client computer doesn't touch the server's disk.

Server is computer waiting for an instruction while clients connect to then ask servers to do things. In peer to peer both computers will be servers and clients.
 
the moronic said:
NTFS or Fat has nothing to do with it. The server computer provides
the file, assuming the server can read it's own disk it provides the
file. The client computer doesn't touch the server's disk.

Server is computer waiting for an instruction while clients connect
to then ask servers to do things. In peer to peer both computers will
be servers and clients.

Well done, Mister Candy. The guy couldn't understand the statement "In a
network, the file system on the "other" system(s) is irrelevant" and you go
and give him that. You comedian, you.
 
David Candy said:
NTFS or Fat has nothing to do with it. The server computer provides the
file, assuming the server can read it's own disk it provides the file.
The client computer doesn't touch the server's disk.

Server is computer waiting for an instruction while clients connect to
then ask servers to do things. In peer to peer both computers will be
servers and clients.

Clear and concise (and refreshingly devoid of bad language, unlike
contributor to this thread who has now been killfiled). Thanks.
 
Trouble with reformatting and creating a new logical drive is that you
can't just restore from a previously made backup, since the system
information will be wrong, addresses of files will have changed, etc.

You actually have to reinstall all your software from scratch, not just
copy from backup files.

Tony
 
Entering Network Neighbourhood on a Win98 computer, I can connect to the
98 computer as well as the other computers on a network. If the 98
computer is dual-boot with XP, with XP on a NTFS partition, can I read
this partition from 98?
If the PC is dual-boot (98 & XP) and XP is on NTFS, then 98 cannot
read the NTFS partition on same PC. (Unless you get a third party
program for Win98) So if that PC booted to 98 and you access it from
another PC on the network, you can only read the FAT32 partition(s)
and not the NTFS partition. If that (same) PC booted to XP, then you
can read both the FAT32 and the NTFS partitions from that PC and from
other PC's on the network
 
thoss said:
Clear and concise (and refreshingly devoid of bad language, unlike
contributor to this thread who has now been killfiled). Thanks.


Then you must be pretty dense, your first reply was clear and concise.

Now go **** yourself with your killfile.
 
Entering Network Neighbourhood on a Win98 computer, I can connect to the
98 computer as well as the other computers on a network. If the 98
computer is dual-boot with XP, with XP on a NTFS partition, can I read
this partition from 98?

Interesting question; I think [*1] the answer will be no, because if
you are running Win98 at the time, even though you are seeing your own
PC from the network, the OS running on the PC you are looking at (i.e.
you) isn't one that can read NTFS at that moment.

It's like Catch-22... "I'm sorry, Major Major is in at the moment; can
you come back later, when he's out?"

:-)

[*1] For fairly solid values of "think"


------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
 

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