NTFS or FAT32 ?

B

- Bobb -

Looking for some input.
I just bought a 1TB Mybook which comes formatted as Fat32.
True, Fat32 is readable by non NT OS, but aside from that - your thoughts on
FAT32 vs NTFS cluster size. I also have a 500mb Mybook drive (NTFS now) and
I'm thinking one will be for Multimedia - all my pictures / videos etc and
the other for data / backups. On each I'll have some very big files and
lots of small files.
I currently have a few XP boxes and will upgrade one to Windows7 if that
matters.
So - more overhead in FAT32 vs NTFS: What would you do ?
Make them both NTFS ? leave as-is ? and why ?
Thanks
 
C

chas2209

- Bobb - said:
Looking for some input.
I just bought a 1TB Mybook which comes formatted as Fat32.
True, Fat32 is readable by non NT OS, but aside from that - your thoughts
on FAT32 vs NTFS cluster size. I also have a 500mb Mybook drive (NTFS now)
and I'm thinking one will be for Multimedia - all my pictures / videos etc
and the other for data / backups. On each I'll have some very big files
and lots of small files.
I currently have a few XP boxes and will upgrade one to Windows7 if that
matters.
So - more overhead in FAT32 vs NTFS: What would you do ?
Make them both NTFS ? leave as-is ? and why ?
Thanks

Hi
See Here

http://www.theeldergeek.com/ntfs_or_fat32_file_system.htm

and
http://cquirke.mvps.org/ntfs.htm

chas2209
 
J

John John - MVP

- Bobb - said:
Looking for some input.
I just bought a 1TB Mybook which comes formatted as Fat32.
True, Fat32 is readable by non NT OS, but aside from that - your thoughts on
FAT32 vs NTFS cluster size. I also have a 500mb Mybook drive (NTFS now) and
I'm thinking one will be for Multimedia - all my pictures / videos etc and
the other for data / backups. On each I'll have some very big files and
lots of small files.
I currently have a few XP boxes and will upgrade one to Windows7 if that
matters.
So - more overhead in FAT32 vs NTFS: What would you do ?
Make them both NTFS ? leave as-is ? and why ?
Thanks

Format them NTFS, there are several reasons why but the simple fact that
FAT32 has a 4GB file size limit is reason enough to use NTFS instead of
FAT32. Video files and back ups can easily surpass this size which
makes FAT32 unsuitable for this type of storage.

John
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

Looking for some input.
I just bought a 1TB Mybook which comes formatted as Fat32.
True, Fat32 is readable by non NT OS, but aside from that - your thoughts on
FAT32 vs NTFS cluster size. I also have a 500mb Mybook drive (NTFS now) and
I'm thinking one will be for Multimedia - all my pictures / videos etc and
the other for data / backups. On each I'll have some very big files and
lots of small files.
I currently have a few XP boxes and will upgrade one to Windows7 if that
matters.
So - more overhead in FAT32 vs NTFS: What would you do ?
Make them both NTFS ? leave as-is ? and why ?


As far as I'm concerned, NTFS is considerably better than FAT32, and I
wouldn't use FAT32 on anything unless I needed to access it on a
Windows 9x computer.
 
B

- Bobb -

"4GB file size limit" seems to be the winner - I hadn't thought of that.
NTFS it shall be.
( just wanted to check prior to removing the FAT32 factory format)
Thanks very much
 
J

John John - MVP

You're welcome.

John

- Bobb - said:
"4GB file size limit" seems to be the winner - I hadn't thought of that.
NTFS it shall be.
( just wanted to check prior to removing the FAT32 factory format)
Thanks very much
 
H

HeyBub

- Bobb - said:
Looking for some input.
I just bought a 1TB Mybook which comes formatted as Fat32.
True, Fat32 is readable by non NT OS, but aside from that - your
thoughts on FAT32 vs NTFS cluster size. I also have a 500mb Mybook
drive (NTFS now) and I'm thinking one will be for Multimedia - all my
pictures / videos etc and the other for data / backups. On each I'll
have some very big files and lots of small files.
I currently have a few XP boxes and will upgrade one to Windows7 if
that matters.
So - more overhead in FAT32 vs NTFS: What would you do ?
Make them both NTFS ? leave as-is ? and why ?
Thanks

Why would anyone even ask this question? NTFS is faster, has built-in
security features, reliability, space utilization, and is self-healing. Plus
other, more arcane, features such as journaling.

Being faster is irrelevant on a USB external drive, but it's nice in
general.
 
T

Terry R.

Looking for some input.
I just bought a 1TB Mybook which comes formatted as Fat32.
True, Fat32 is readable by non NT OS, but aside from that - your
thoughts on FAT32 vs NTFS cluster size. I also have a 500mb Mybook
drive (NTFS now) and I'm thinking one will be for Multimedia - all my
pictures / videos etc and the other for data / backups. On each I'll
have some very big files and lots of small files.
I currently have a few XP boxes and will upgrade one to Windows7 if
that matters.
So - more overhead in FAT32 vs NTFS: What would you do ?
Make them both NTFS ? leave as-is ? and why ?
Thanks

Why would anyone even ask this question? NTFS is faster, has built-in
security features, reliability, space utilization, and is self-healing. Plus
other, more arcane, features such as journaling.

Being faster is irrelevant on a USB external drive, but it's nice in
general.
[/QUOTE]

Well for one, if a user has a multi-booting workstation with
Win98/Me/W2k/XP/Win7/Linux, and shares the data, like myself. I will
soon retire the 2 oldest ones, so then the data drive will be converted
to NTFS. The internal backup data drive is NTFS already.


Terry R.
 
P

Paul Randall

chas2209 said:

Your second reference has at least one error. It says "You are obliged to
use NTFS if you need support for files over 4G in size, hard drives over
137G in size, and/or you need to implement some of NT's security management
that devolves down to NTFS."

I have a SATA 1.5 GB Seagate drive which I installed in a external USB
housing; Windows XP has been purposely crippled to prevent its formatting of
drives larger than 32 GB, but I have no idea what the purpose of that
crippling is. XP can access all the content that now approaches 1.4 GB.

-Paul Randall
 
J

John John - MVP

Paul said:
Your second reference has at least one error. It says "You are obliged to
use NTFS if you need support for files over 4G in size, hard drives over
137G in size, and/or you need to implement some of NT's security management
that devolves down to NTFS."

I have a SATA 1.5 GB Seagate drive which I installed in a external USB
housing; Windows XP has been purposely crippled to prevent its formatting of
drives larger than 32 GB, but I have no idea what the purpose of that
crippling is. XP can access all the content that now approaches 1.4 GB.

Windows XP limits the size of FAT32 volumes that it can format to 32GB
but it can mount larger FAT32 drives prepared by other tools or
operating systems. When Windows 2000 was released an arbitrary limit of
32GB was set on the operating system's ability to format FAT32 volumes
because FAT32 is extremely inefficient on large volumes and 32GB was
seen as an acceptable cutoff point before the volume became too inefficient.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2006.07.windowsconfidential.aspx
Windows Confidential: A Brief and Incomplete History of FAT32

John
 
P

Paul

Paul said:
Your second reference has at least one error. It says "You are obliged to
use NTFS if you need support for files over 4G in size, hard drives over
137G in size, and/or you need to implement some of NT's security management
that devolves down to NTFS."

I have a SATA 1.5 GB Seagate drive which I installed in a external USB
housing; Windows XP has been purposely crippled to prevent its formatting of
drives larger than 32 GB, but I have no idea what the purpose of that
crippling is. XP can access all the content that now approaches 1.4 GB.

-Paul Randall

There is a utility for formatting FAT32 partitions larger than 32GB. Try here.
(You don't have to let Microsoft spoil your fun.) My C: drive was formatted
with this. My copy of Partition Magic wouldn't do it, so I used
this instead.

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?fat32format.htm

Paul
 
H

HeyBub

Terry said:
Well for one, if a user has a multi-booting workstation with
Win98/Me/W2k/XP/Win7/Linux, and shares the data, like myself. I will
soon retire the 2 oldest ones, so then the data drive will be
converted to NTFS. The internal backup data drive is NTFS already.

Ah, good point. I forgot about the Luddites. Thanks for the correction.
 
J

John E. Carty

Paul said:
There is a utility for formatting FAT32 partitions larger than 32GB. Try
here.
(You don't have to let Microsoft spoil your fun.)

A Windows Me boot disk will format partitions larger than 32GB's as FAT32
also :)

My C: drive was formatted
 
P

Paul Randall

John John - MVP said:
Windows XP limits the size of FAT32 volumes that it can format to 32GB but
it can mount larger FAT32 drives prepared by other tools or operating
systems. When Windows 2000 was released an arbitrary limit of 32GB was
set on the operating system's ability to format FAT32 volumes because
FAT32 is extremely inefficient on large volumes and 32GB was seen as an
acceptable cutoff point before the volume became too inefficient.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2006.07.windowsconfidential.aspx
Windows Confidential: A Brief and Incomplete History of FAT32

Thanks for the link. I found it interesting.

I find this quote are especially silly from a WXP point of view: "Long
before you hit the theoretical maximum volume size, you will reach the
practical limits."
I don't see any problems using MY 1.5 GB FAT32 USB drive; it has only a few
thousand files, mostly video files, none greater than 2 GB.

The article also states: For a 32GB FAT32 drive, it takes 4 megabytes of
disk I/O to compute the amount of free space. I assume this means my 1.5
TB drive would require 1500GB/32GB times as much I/O, or about 187
megabytes, which goes pretty fast with USB 2.0.

My thoughts are, the engineers crippled Window's formatting capability of
FAT32 systems because they could not envision that computer speeds would
increase or memory prices decrease in the future like they had in the past.
Or they were just too lazy or harried to think about it. And besides, 'At
some point you have to say, "Enough is enough"', even if it is at the wrong
point.

Uff da!

I'm glad Norton Ghost's Gdisk.exe which runs under DOS, partitions and
formats my big fat32 drive to my liking. I see no downside to fat32.

-Paul Randall
 
J

John John - MVP

Paul said:
Thanks for the link. I found it interesting.

I find this quote are especially silly from a WXP point of view:
"Long before you hit the theoretical maximum volume size, you will
reach the practical limits."

It's not really all that silly. Many folks regularly run against the
4GB file size barrier, we see posts to that effect regularly in these
groups. And the 65,535 objects per directory limit is one that is
easily and often busted by some large applications or by folks who keep
and inventory a large number of files. The 65,535 file limit applies
when using the 8.3 naming convention, using Long File Names (LFN)
significantly reduces the number of available entries as objects with 13
or more characters will use 3 (three) or more directory entries, this
applies to FAT or FAT32, but not NTFS. FAT32 folders often conk out at
20 to 25 thousand files when LFN are used, if you use really long file
names the folder can conk out at even fewer entries. This can leave
folks puzzled when they receive messages telling them that they can no
longer create files on their nearly empty drives.

I don't see any problems using MY 1.5 GB FAT32 USB drive; it has only
a few thousand files, mostly video files, none greater than 2 GB.

Your drive is certainly bigger than 1.5 GB? Even in the Windows 95 era
a 1.5GB drive was on the smallish side...


The article also states: For a 32GB FAT32 drive, it takes 4 megabytes
of disk I/O to compute the amount of free space. I assume this
means my 1.5 TB drive would require 1500GB/32GB times as much I/O, or
about 187 megabytes, which goes pretty fast with USB 2.0.

I don't know about the disk I/O math that you use or the 187MB value
that you advance but don't let the USB specifications fool you, USB
drives are still slower that IDE drives (let alone SATA) and generally
operations on large FAT32 volumes are slower than on NTFS volumes.


My thoughts are, the engineers crippled Window's formatting
capability of FAT32 systems because they could not envision that
computer speeds would increase or memory prices decrease in the
future like they had in the past.

No, not at all! When Windows 2000 was released memory capacities where
quickly increasing and prices were rapidly falling along with the
increased capacities, the same goes with disk sizes. The trend was
clearly established and I don't think that the engineers at Microsoft
were that stupid or that they were in the dark enough to not know what
the trends were. I mean, after all, Microsoft is the largest software
company in the world with nearly 100,000 employees and according to
reliable figures about 90% of the computers out there run on Microsoft
operating systems. I just don't buy the notion that Microsoft didn't
know any better, the facts are that FAT32 has limits and performance
issues that where just not suitable for modern operating systems, these
issues were especially not acceptable for a modern operating systems
like Windows 2000 which was primarily designed for business use. In my
opinion they decided to draw a line somewhere for a good reason.


I'm glad Norton Ghost's Gdisk.exe which runs under DOS, partitions
and formats my big fat32 drive to my liking. I see no downside to
fat32.

If FAT32 suits your needs better and if you are happy with it then by
all means use it! But when compared to NTFS it does have many downsides
and by far NTFS is a superior file system. NTFS is the native file
system for NT operating systems and unless they have compelling reasons
to do otherwise most users should use NTFS.

John
 
T

Terry R.

Well for one, if a user has a multi-booting workstation with
Win98/Me/W2k/XP/Win7/Linux, and shares the data, like myself. I will
soon retire the 2 oldest ones, so then the data drive will be
converted to NTFS. The internal backup data drive is NTFS already.

Ah, good point. I forgot about the Luddites. Thanks for the correction.
[/QUOTE]

Right. You on the other hand feel tech savvy with your single OS...


Terry R.
 
S

Shenan Stanley

John John - MVP wrote:
Your drive is certainly bigger than 1.5 GB? Even in the Windows 95
era a 1.5GB drive was on the smallish side...

*grin*

USB Drive - could be a USB thumb drive/memory stick.

Now - I will say that I find it humorous that it was necessary to mention
that the 1.5GB drive had no files on it larger than 2GB in size. I'd figure
that would have gone without saying. *vbg*
 
B

Bill in Co.

Shenan said:
John John - MVP wrote:


*grin*

USB Drive - could be a USB thumb drive/memory stick.

And for a USB thumb drive, NTFS may be a bit overkill. One advantage of
FAT is its flexibility, in being accessable by so many OS. Personally, I
can't see why anyone would go to the trouble of making a USB thumb drive
NTFS (unless you're talking tens of GB, and even then, it's quite optional,
unless you're storing HUGE video files)
 

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