EULA

  • Thread starter Thread starter JustMe
  • Start date Start date
J

JustMe

I have just read some interesting posts concerning
licensing and the EULA. The folks involved were all
adament on their opposing opinions. For those that take
the high road and stick to "One Computer-One License" I
ask, Can you honestly say that you have never, ever, made
a copy of any type? Did you ever copy an article in a
magazine or a recipe or a song for your own use? Or did
you go out and buy a new issue of the magizine, cookbook
or CD?

I am an honest person. However, I have no problem copying
an article, song, whatever, for my own use. I am not using
these copies for profit. I am not giving away the copies.
Until the copy police come to my house and arrest me, I
will continue to do so.

Any thoughts?
 
Find something better to do with your time other than read
the Windows EULA. killing yourself would be a good opiton.
 
The EULA is a one sided agreement that was written to
serve one party MS. You never get to decide if you agree
with it or not till after they get your money. In my state
I have the option of resending any contract or agreement
within 72 hrs if I change my mind, I changed my mind ,so I
am not bound by it. I sent them a email and told them so,
they choose not to answer back , thats not my problem.
 
take said:
Find something better to do with your time other than read
the Windows EULA. killing yourself would be a good opiton.

Why? He seemed to be asking some very reasonable questions. Instead of
advocating your own personal fantasy, why not try actually answering his
post? Ah, that's right, he ended his post with "Any thoughts?" and your
only thoughts are about suicide.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
-----Original Message-----
opiton.

Why? He seemed to be asking some very reasonable questions. Instead of
advocating your own personal fantasy, why not try actually answering his
post? Ah, that's right, he ended his post with "Any thoughts?" and your
only thoughts are about suicide.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"


.
Maybe because he can't spell and has no other "opitons".
 
JustMe said:
I have just read some interesting posts concerning
licensing and the EULA. The folks involved were all
adament on their opposing opinions. For those that take
the high road and stick to "One Computer-One License" I
ask, Can you honestly say that you have never, ever, made
a copy of any type? Did you ever copy an article in a
magazine or a recipe or a song for your own use? Or did
you go out and buy a new issue of the magizine, cookbook
or CD?

I am an honest person. However, I have no problem copying
an article, song, whatever, for my own use. I am not using
these copies for profit. I am not giving away the copies.
Until the copy police come to my house and arrest me, I
will continue to do so.

Any thoughts?

I didn't think any of the One Computer Zealots had the balls to take
your post seriously, and it looks like I've been proven right.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
I am one of those that take the high road on SW licensing and I'll give you
my thoughts on the matter. As individuals, we all have to make up our own
minds as to what we will do or not do.

- Yes, the EULAs (MS, IBM, HP, etc.) are one-sided contracts, written by the
mfr's lawyers to protect them, minimize any risk of suits for alleged
liability issues, etc. The same can be said for any standard retail sales
contract (buying a car from a dealer, signing a credit card receipt, store
purchases, leasing an apartment, etc.), as we don't get to really
"negotiate" as an equal party on the deal. [In most cases that I'm familiar
with, if you disagree with the terms of the SW contract you can notify the
mfr, return the product, cease use of the product, and they will return your
money. That appears to be the sole "out" to the one-sided contracts.]

- Enforceability of contracts will vary greatly from one jurisdiction to
another. WRT SW, since most is sold internationally, what a court would rule
in the US may be very different than what a court in the UK, China, France,
etc. might rule on the same EULA/Contract.

-IANAL, but I do believe that there is a vast difference between making a
photocopy of a newspaper article, duplicating a music CD to play in your car
(just in case heat damages the CD vs. risking the original that you legally
own), etc. vs. copying a single OS License on multiple machines. In the
first case there has been case law (in the US) on "fair use" that allows
this as a legal act. In the latter case (installing a single OS License on
multiple machines) I believe that MS (and other mfrs) and SPA have
successfully prosecuted many companies and the court findings have gone in
their favor. Not sure that any individual has ever been prosecuted in the
same way, but the potential is certainly there.

- Personally, I look at the OS Licensing issue the same way I look at auto
licensing (registration) or insurance. Lets say that I own two cars, but I
am the only driver in my household. I can't legally just move the license
plates from one car to another when I want to take a drive and legally be
registered and insured! They (government and insurance companies) insist
that I have each car registered and insured separately.

I don't get to make all the rules, but I do try hard to abide by them. One
of my first clients (a lawyer) asked me to buy him ONE copy of MS-DOS 6.0
and install it on all 5 machines in his law office. I told him that this was
illegal and no way would I be involved in it. I walked out of his office and
never returned, thus losing money that I would have made in supporting his
computer needs. So yes, I do "walk the walk" and don't just spout off what
the right thing is here.
 
The EULA is a one sided agreement that was written to
serve one party MS. You never get to decide if you agree
with it or not till after they get your money. In my state
I have the option of resending any contract or agreement
within 72 hrs if I change my mind, I changed my mind ,so I
am not bound by it. I sent them a email and told them so,
they choose not to answer back , thats not my problem.

This agreement was written by us and is there as an instrument for you to
agree to to continue the installation of the product.
There is also coverage on the side of the retail packaging explaining the
licensing terms (in simple terms) for you to see before you even purchase
the product.

If you have the rights as you discussed above then, if you wish to rescind
the contract then you are not licensed to install the software.
Your installation and use is conditional on the acceptance of the contract.
If you wish to rescind the contract (post installation) then you no longer
have any right to continuing to use the product provided under the terms of
that contract.

If you require additional clarification on this matter then I suggest you
take professional legal advice

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups
 
Mike said:
This agreement was written by us and is there as an instrument for
you to agree to to continue the installation of the product.
There is also coverage on the side of the retail packaging explaining
the licensing terms (in simple terms) for you to see before you even
purchase the product.

If you have the rights as you discussed above then, if you wish to
rescind the contract then you are not licensed to install the
software.
Your installation and use is conditional on the acceptance of the
contract. If you wish to rescind the contract (post installation)
then you no longer have any right to continuing to use the product
provided under the terms of that contract.

If you require additional clarification on this matter then I suggest
you take professional legal advice

And I suggest that your company get some balls and prove ya'll have the
right to know & and control our usage, of legally purchased software, in
the privacy of our own homes.

Get some professional legal advise about what really are a copyright
owners rights are in a private anonymous individual's home. My opinion
would be that the copyright owner has no right to know what happens in
the privacy & anonymity of my home. I don't need to pay a lawyer to
tell me that.

If your company has no right to even know that I have bought it's
software, how the hell can you think your company can control how an
anonymous private individual can use the software?

Get Real!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Len said:
I am one of those that take the high road on SW licensing and I'll
give you my thoughts on the matter. As individuals, we all have to
make up our own minds as to what we will do or not do.

- Yes, the EULAs (MS, IBM, HP, etc.) are one-sided contracts, written
by the mfr's lawyers to protect them, minimize any risk of suits for
alleged liability issues, etc. The same can be said for any standard
retail sales contract (buying a car from a dealer, signing a credit
card receipt, store purchases, leasing an apartment, etc.), as we
don't get to really "negotiate" as an equal party on the deal.

No, but you get the opportunity to reject the terms before money changes
hands with software, like you do with all of the types of agreements you
mention.

[In
most cases that I'm familiar with, if you disagree with the terms of
the SW contract you can notify the mfr, return the product, cease use
of the product, and they will return your money. That appears to be
the sole "out" to the one-sided contracts.]

But not for a full refund. You pay for shipping and handling.
- Enforceability of contracts will vary greatly from one jurisdiction
to another. WRT SW, since most is sold internationally, what a court
would rule in the US may be very different than what a court in the
UK, China, France, etc. might rule on the same EULA/Contract.

Yes. That's right.
-IANAL, but I do believe that there is a vast difference between
making a photocopy of a newspaper article, duplicating a music CD to
play in your car (just in case heat damages the CD vs. risking the
original that you legally own), etc. vs. copying a single OS License
on multiple machines.

Well, just because MS thinks that their "shrinkwrap license" is a
"software license" doesn't make that so. You purchase a copy of
copyright material, long before accepting any agreement. As an owner of
a copy of a computer program, I have the right to infringe that is
protected under US Copyright Law: Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 117.
In the first case there has been case law (in
the US) on "fair use" that allows this as a legal act. In the latter
case (installing a single OS License on multiple machines) I believe
that MS (and other mfrs) and SPA have successfully prosecuted many
companies and the court findings have gone in their favor. Not sure
that any individual has ever been prosecuted in the same way, but the
potential is certainly there.

Commercial usage doesn't fall under 'fair use' protection, however in
many countries 'fair use' does protect individuals for their private
non-commercial use of software. Can't compare the two, plus so does
Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 117 in the US. And I believe in most of
the cases brought against companies no actual legal decision was ever
handed down. Companies settled because the legal costs of fighting it
were much higher than settling
- Personally, I look at the OS Licensing issue the same way I look at
auto licensing (registration) or insurance.

You would accept them putting a technological lock on your leased car?
You would pay the lease before knowing the terms?
Lets say that I own two
cars, but I am the only driver in my household. I can't legally just
move the license plates from one car to another when I want to take a
drive and legally be registered and insured! They (government and
insurance companies) insist that I have each car registered and
insured separately.

Insurance companies don't have the soveriegnty to require anything, it
the state gov't's that do. MS doesn't have the soveriegnty to require
people to even register the software they sell, let alone enforce those
terms on those that have every right to remain totally anonymous from
them.
I don't get to make all the rules, but I do try hard to abide by
them. One of my first clients (a lawyer) asked me to buy him ONE copy
of MS-DOS 6.0 and install it on all 5 machines in his law office. I
told him that this was illegal and no way would I be involved in it.
I walked out of his office and never returned, thus losing money that
I would have made in supporting his computer needs. So yes, I do
"walk the walk" and don't just spout off what the right thing is here.

At least the OP compared like things. Copyrighted Material to
Copyrighted Material. You compare software to everything but other
copyrighted material. You "walk the walk" of a hypocrite.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
lol these threads crack me up
either buy it or steal it
we all make that one decision
its as simple as that so lets leave it at that


kurttrail said:
Len said:
I am one of those that take the high road on SW licensing and I'll
give you my thoughts on the matter. As individuals, we all have to
make up our own minds as to what we will do or not do.

- Yes, the EULAs (MS, IBM, HP, etc.) are one-sided contracts, written
by the mfr's lawyers to protect them, minimize any risk of suits for
alleged liability issues, etc. The same can be said for any standard
retail sales contract (buying a car from a dealer, signing a credit
card receipt, store purchases, leasing an apartment, etc.), as we
don't get to really "negotiate" as an equal party on the deal.

No, but you get the opportunity to reject the terms before money changes
hands with software, like you do with all of the types of agreements you
mention.

[In
most cases that I'm familiar with, if you disagree with the terms of
the SW contract you can notify the mfr, return the product, cease use
of the product, and they will return your money. That appears to be
the sole "out" to the one-sided contracts.]

But not for a full refund. You pay for shipping and handling.
- Enforceability of contracts will vary greatly from one jurisdiction
to another. WRT SW, since most is sold internationally, what a court
would rule in the US may be very different than what a court in the
UK, China, France, etc. might rule on the same EULA/Contract.

Yes. That's right.
-IANAL, but I do believe that there is a vast difference between
making a photocopy of a newspaper article, duplicating a music CD to
play in your car (just in case heat damages the CD vs. risking the
original that you legally own), etc. vs. copying a single OS License
on multiple machines.

Well, just because MS thinks that their "shrinkwrap license" is a
"software license" doesn't make that so. You purchase a copy of
copyright material, long before accepting any agreement. As an owner of
a copy of a computer program, I have the right to infringe that is
protected under US Copyright Law: Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 117.
In the first case there has been case law (in
the US) on "fair use" that allows this as a legal act. In the latter
case (installing a single OS License on multiple machines) I believe
that MS (and other mfrs) and SPA have successfully prosecuted many
companies and the court findings have gone in their favor. Not sure
that any individual has ever been prosecuted in the same way, but the
potential is certainly there.

Commercial usage doesn't fall under 'fair use' protection, however in
many countries 'fair use' does protect individuals for their private
non-commercial use of software. Can't compare the two, plus so does
Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 117 in the US. And I believe in most of
the cases brought against companies no actual legal decision was ever
handed down. Companies settled because the legal costs of fighting it
were much higher than settling
- Personally, I look at the OS Licensing issue the same way I look at
auto licensing (registration) or insurance.

You would accept them putting a technological lock on your leased car?
You would pay the lease before knowing the terms?
Lets say that I own two
cars, but I am the only driver in my household. I can't legally just
move the license plates from one car to another when I want to take a
drive and legally be registered and insured! They (government and
insurance companies) insist that I have each car registered and
insured separately.

Insurance companies don't have the soveriegnty to require anything, it
the state gov't's that do. MS doesn't have the soveriegnty to require
people to even register the software they sell, let alone enforce those
terms on those that have every right to remain totally anonymous from
them.
I don't get to make all the rules, but I do try hard to abide by
them. One of my first clients (a lawyer) asked me to buy him ONE copy
of MS-DOS 6.0 and install it on all 5 machines in his law office. I
told him that this was illegal and no way would I be involved in it.
I walked out of his office and never returned, thus losing money that
I would have made in supporting his computer needs. So yes, I do
"walk the walk" and don't just spout off what the right thing is here.

At least the OP compared like things. Copyrighted Material to
Copyrighted Material. You compare software to everything but other
copyrighted material. You "walk the walk" of a hypocrite.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
ceedee said:
lol these threads crack me up
either buy it or steal it
we all make that one decision
its as simple as that so lets leave it at that

Is it really that simple, when those that buy it are called thieves for
the way they use it in the privacy of their own homes?

Another person living in a black & white world. I never knew so many
morons are color-blind.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
er yes
if you breach the licence regardless of where
you have stolen it.

i personally have more than one copy of the same xp running on multiple
machines in my house
but i dont try and justify it
i am stealing it
its that simple

the fact that the other two copies are on my 6 and 7 years old kids pc,s
that they only use
for edu and homework doesnt change the fact
the fact of whether or not i could afford to buy more copies doesnt either
i havent read the eula or care about it either cos i dont intend to abide by
it
its the choice i made and thats that
if i should get called to task about it then its a fair cop

go whine somewhere else try
alt.microsoft.whiney.assed.pompous.self.justification.XP
they might like to hear your drivel
 
ceedee said:
er yes
if you breach the licence regardless of where
you have stolen it.

Do you even know the between a criminal & civil offense? Stealing is a
crime, punishable with jail time and the loss of certain civil rights,
if found guilty. A civil offense, such a being found guilty of
breaching a contract, is only punishable monitarily. Breaking a license
is never been equated to theft by any court of law that I'm aware of.
i personally have more than one copy of the same xp running on
multiple machines in my house
but i dont try and justify it
i am stealing it
its that simple

Only to someone as myopic as you.
the fact that the other two copies are on my 6 and 7 years old kids
pc,s that they only use
for edu and homework doesnt change the fact
the fact of whether or not i could afford to buy more copies doesnt
either i havent read the eula or care about it either cos i dont
intend to abide by it
its the choice i made and thats that
if i should get called to task about it then its a fair cop

What a moron!
go whine somewhere else try
alt.microsoft.whiney.assed.pompous.self.justification.XP
they might like to hear your drivel

I was here first, so you go elsewhere if you don't want to hear my
"drivel." I ain't going anywhere, and there ain't a damn thing you can
do about. :-P

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
i wont argue semantics with you
cos your just too stupid for that

it is plainly obvious that you are just
a sad pedant with nothing better to
do than waffle on about crap which
you twist to suit your point of view

believe what you will it doesnt change
the facts
 
ceedee said:
i wont argue semantics with you
cos your just too stupid for that

You won't argue anymore, because I pointed out your stupidity of
equating breaking a contract to that of a criminal offense. You can
call me stupid, but you've proven that you really are!
it is plainly obvious that you are just
a sad pedant with nothing better to
do than waffle on about crap which
you twist to suit your point of view

Too bad you ain't smart enough to understand that nothing, especially
the law, is not just black & white.
believe what you will it doesnt change
the facts

What facts? That breaking a contract is a crime? LOL! You wouldn't
know a fact even if it was shoved up you ass sideways!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
I didn't think any of the One Computer Zealots had the balls to take
your post seriously, and it looks like I've been proven right.

I agree. How I use the software I paid for is up to me so
long as I do not use it to break the law. The EULA is not
presented to the user until after the box has been opened.
Most of the retailers that sell software have return
policies that state that software cannot be accepted for
return if the box was opened. Since the EULA is not on the
box, if I don't agree with it, I now have to pay shipping
and recieving.

If I were to buy a car, and did not agree with the terms
on the contract of sale, I have a chance to cancel that
sale BEFORE any money changes hands. Why should software
be any different?
 
shit i am dumb
my only excuse is that i am relatively new to reading these groups
i apologise to all the other users for feeding this troll
having now seen all his other raving loon posts i realise my mistake
and will now killfile the jackass
 
Greetings --

While I certainly don't agree with your position or support your
actions, I do applaud your willingness to admit the truth, rather than
hypocritically try to "rationalize" your deliberately unethical acts.
It's a rather refreshing attitude.

Now, if only the other EULA-whiners would learn a thing or two
from you....

Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
Bruce said:
Greetings --

While I certainly don't agree with your position or support your
actions, I do applaud your willingness to admit the truth, rather than
hypocritically try to "rationalize" your deliberately unethical acts.
It's a rather refreshing attitude.

Now, if only the other EULA-whiners would learn a thing or two
from you....

Figures you would applaud a total hypocrite.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Back
Top