envelope icon appears when no unread email

[Guest]

I keep outlook running in the background, and I've told it to hide itself
when minimised - the only sign it's there is (a) it loads very quickly if I
press the outlook shortcut on the QuickLaunch task-bar, and (b) I get a
little envelope appear in the system tray when new email arrives.

The problem is that I also get this envelope appear when there is no email
to read.

Now, I've got some email rules that delete and mark-as-read some emails
(automated messages from an in-house server).
I rather suspect that what's happening is that
1) Message arrives
2) Outlook go "Ooh, an email, RED ALERT!" and displays the little envelope
3) Outlook goes "Ooh, it matches the nuke-it rule, NUKE IT!" and nukes the
email, resulting in no unread email
4) Outlook then completely fails to get rid of the envelope, leaving it up
5) I double-click on the envelope, Outlook opens and shows me that I have no
unread email and the envelope notification icon was rather misleading
6) Outlook leaves the envelope icon there to ensure that I'll never know if
any more email arrives

Needless so say, I'm none too impressed - deciding whether or not one has
unread email isn't exactly rocket science...

Does anyone know any way to pursuade Outlook to _only_ tell you that you've
got unread email if you've _actually_ got unread email?

Thanks,

Peter

 

[Brian Tillman]

The problem is that I also get this envelope appear when there is no
email to read.

But you don't say which version of Outlook you're running.

Now, I've got some email rules that delete and mark-as-read some
emails (automated messages from an in-house server).
I rather suspect that what's happening is that
1) Message arrives
2) Outlook go "Ooh, an email, RED ALERT!" and displays the little
envelope 3) Outlook goes "Ooh, it matches the nuke-it rule, NUKE IT!"
and nukes the email, resulting in no unread email
4) Outlook then completely fails to get rid of the envelope, leaving
it up

This is the likely scenario, yes. The "show envelope" routine only knows
that a single message has arrived in your inbox. It neither knows nor cares
that a rule is going to operate on the message and move it out of the Inbox.
It's not its job to care. Moreover, it doesn't know or care whether one or
one hundred messages have arrived. There's no way for that routine to know
whether or not, after a rule has run and has removed a message from the
Inbox, that there are no more or that there are more messages in the Inbox
that are unread. You want this routine to fortell the future and know that
1) a rule is going to remove a message and 2) it's the last unread message
in the Inbox. Software is not psychic.

Needless so say, I'm none too impressed - deciding whether or not one
has unread email isn't exactly rocket science...

Whether or not there is unread messages may not be difficult, but deciding
whether or not to show the envelope is more complex than you might imagine.
For example, you'll notice that if you have one or one hundred unread
messages, as soon as you read any message in your Inbox, the envelope goes
away. Would you like that envelope to remain in spite of the fact that
you've read a message, as long as there are unread messages remaining? How
about if you skip a few unread messages and read a later one? The earlier
ones, while unread aren't "new" per se, since they came before the most
recent arrival, which you've read. Should the envelope still be displayed
or not?

Does anyone know any way to pursuade Outlook to _only_ tell you that
you've got unread email if you've _actually_ got unread email?

Outlook 2003 SP1 behaves a little differently, in that Microsoft has moved
the time when the "show envelope" routine runs to after the time the rules
have run. Thus, if a new message arrives and is moved from the folder by a
rule, the envelope won't show. But should it? The message is still "new"
and unread, even though it's in another folder. Perhaps I prefer to be
notified of new messages no matter what folder they're in, while you,
obviously, do not. Can you think of a scheme to satisfy both? I thought
not.

 

[Guest]

But you don't say which version of Outlook you're running.

Oops, sorry.
It's Outlook 2003 (11.6359.6408) SP1
For what it's worth, it's being run on WinXP-Pro-SP2. Checking
windows-update manually tells me that I should install "Microsoft .NET
Framework 1.1 Service Pack 1" (this isn't installed at present, but I guess
must be fairly recent as the auto-update hasn't picked it up yet)

You want this routine to fortell the future and know that
1) a rule is going to remove a message and 2) it's the last unread message
in the Inbox. Software is not psychic.

No, I want Outlook's "You've got new unread email" event (that triggers the
little envelope icon, and/or a sound and/or a pop-up) to only be run once
Outlook _knows_ if there's new unread email, rather than before it can
possibly know whether or not it should tell the user.
You're correct, software isn't psychic, one has to design software such that
there is no requirement for routines to be psychic. Like running the rules
first and then deciding whether or not to show an icon, instead of assuming
that the rules aren't going to nuke the message even though rules can do so.

Would you like that envelope to remain in spite of the fact that
you've read a message

No, the envelope icon should disappear once Outlook has received evidence
that the user's taken notice of it.
I agree it's not the sort of functionality one could code in a single short
line, but it's not particularly complex.

Outlook 2003 SP1 behaves a little differently, in that Microsoft has moved
the time when the "show envelope" routine runs to after the time the rules
have run. Thus, if a new message arrives and is moved from the folder by a
rule, the envelope won't show.

Really? Are you sure?
That sounds exactly like the sort of thing that would change the behavior
from what I'm seeing (which I don't like, but which seems to suit your
preferences), to what I'd like.
Unfortunately, I am already using Outlook 2003 SP1, and it doesn't do that
here.

I've done a bit of searching, and found that
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/872839/ doesn't mention this change anywhere,
which might explain why I don't see it here.
However, if there is a patch that does achieve the effect you describe, I'd
love to hear about it.
Unless SP1 has changed and you got a version that did do this, or we're
referring to different things that call themselves "SP1".

But should it? Can you think of a scheme to satisfy both? I thought not.

Actually, yes I can : If, once a new message has been processed by the
rules, it has not been deleted or marked as read then it must count as a "new
unread message" and its arrival must trigger the "you've got mail" action (to
display the envelope icon, play a sound etc).
The envelope icon should persist until an unread message is manipulated by
the user in some way, e.g. reading it, deleting it, or moving it. (MS seem
to have got this bit largely sussed as-is, except in situations where there
is no unread email to read, hence I expect this functionality can remain
unchanged)

That way, if the rules leave the new item unread, you get the functionality
you want and you're satisfied, whereas if the rules destroy or mark the item
as read, I get the functionality I want.
Like I said, it's not rocket science.

Ideally, the rules should be enhanced to include a "don't tell me when this
arrives" option (or the opposite, a "tell me this has arrived" rule that's
set by default) so that one doesn't have to delete or mark-as-read an email
just to not be told about it, putting that functionality under user control.
That way a busy manager could only be notified of email marked as "urgent"
if they wanted, whilst leaving non-urgent email unread in the in-box (or
whatever folder it got put into by rules) until they could be bothered to
read it.
Again, not rocket science, but this might be deemed more complicated than
necessary.