Ebay and Paypal !!


Rush

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I have advocated the trustiness and integrity of the afformentioned establishments...but i am currently in the middle of a very peeing off episode.. i will try to keep things brief and short...

1. I sell 2 PC games on a sunday
2 The buyer pays promptly on the sunday
3 I post the games on the monday
4 The buyer recieves the games and leaves Positive feedback
5 I withdraw fund from paypal into my bank account
6 On the Wednesday i look and find that paypal are investigating the transaction as the buyer has reversed his payment
7 10 days elapse and Paypal favour the Buyer... my account now goes £20 in arrears
8 I change Passwords on both accounts...I contact the buyer...He says he knows nothing about it...Ebay, Paypal fault
9 I contact Ebay and Paypal (through logging in) and recieve some gibberishly spoken English reply
10 I contact Ebays spoof department ..they say its fake
11 I again and again contact Ebay and Paypal and recieve their gibberish English spoken replies that make me feel they are spoof
12 I have still not sent feedback and instruct the buyer of my plight( rather face on) and he reiterates .Its not anything to do with me...
13 AAAAAAAAAAaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh
14 I am still sending Emails to them ...In the meantime i have recieved over 20 notifications from Ebay demanding my £1.61 payment

They can swivel on a sharp garden implement for me...

I dont know what else to do...Heres a link to anyone else who might be experiencing spoof emails...
[size=+1]Soapbox: PayPal Spoofed by Its Own Emails[/size]
[size=-1]By (e-mail address removed)
AuctionBytes.com[/size]
[size=-2]February 22, 2004[/size][size=+1][/size]
eBay and PayPal users have been receiving them for years - emails asking the account holder to update their information; verify their identities; or warning them that their account was being shut down. And for years, users have scratched their heads, wondering if the email was legitimate, or an attempt by a scammer to obtain personal information.

The emails invariably require that the recipient log into their account using a link embedded in the body of the email. Legitimate email-links send users to their PayPal log-in screen, while scam email-links send users to a screen that looks exactly like the real PayPal log-in screen, but actually resides on the scammer's server - not PayPal - designed to collect the user's sensitive information.

In many instances, users can't tell a real email from a fake one. Apparently, PayPal can't either.

In January, I received an email with the subject header "Monthly Statement Available." The email invited me to log into my PayPal account through the link contained within and view my transactions for the previous 30 days. Having some knowledge of traceroutes and being able to check the "headers" of an email to discern it's origination point, I examined the email and came to the conclusion that it was legitimate.

Wanting to be 100 percent certain, I forwarded it, with headers, to (e-mail address removed). Several hours later, I received a response from PayPal, thanking me for forwarding this "suspicious" email and confirming that the email was not sent by PayPal. It also advised me not to "enter any personal or financial information into this website."

A bit confused, I took a second look at the email's headers, reaffirmed that the email had originated from smtp2.nix.paypal.com, and resent the email to (e-mail address removed). Again, several hours later, I received a similar response that the email was a fake.

The only conclusions that I could come to at that point, were: I evidently had no idea how to read email headers correctly, or, PayPal was sending this "stock" response to every user that sent an email to (e-mail address removed)

I saved all the correspondence, and moved on to other things.

A month later I received a similar email, with a similar subject line, inviting me to view my monthly statement online. Being curious, I checked the emails headers and compared them with the statement I had received the previous month. They were identical.

Well, I thought, this is either a legitimate email, or this scammer is very punctual. And off I sent the email to (e-mail address removed) again. Within hours I received a response from PayPal that the email was, indeed, legitimate and had been sent by the company. According to the response, "General Notification emails and Payment Notification emails are activated by default. Therefore, a PayPal user will need to set their Preferences to "not" receive these emails if they so choose." (I've since changed my preferences not to receive these.)

Again, I checked the headers, and decided that I should contact a spokesperson from PayPal and ask why two basically identical emails had been flagged differently - one as legitimate and one as a spoof - by PayPal.

To PayPal's credit, they acknowledged that there had been an error in identifying the initial email. A company spokesperson explained that links within emails make the experience easier for users to access their accounts. But what kind of experience would it be to find that my account had been drained of its funds because I guessed wrong on clicking on a link?

The point of this story is that trying to discern the legitimacy of an email is not an easy process for most users. If a company can't recognize their own emails with any degree of accuracy, how can it expect its users to? For end-users, it becomes a game of online "Russian Roulette," and guessing incorrectly could mean that your PayPal account could be breached.

The spokesperson from PayPal explained that this is still a problem and that links have been taken out of most emails to users, and coming up with a permanent solution is one of the highest priorities for the company.

Taking links out of "some" emails is no solution at all. It only adds to the confusion experienced by many users. Remove links to log-in pages from all email correspondence to PayPal users. Direct them to log in manually until a consistent solution is found.

Considering that other financial institutions, as well as ecommerce sites, have been targets of spoof email, this applies to all organizations that send emails to their customers.

If you get hoax emails pretending to be from PayPal, forward them to (e-mail address removed). If it's pretending to be from eBay, forward to (e-mail address removed).

Resources

PayPal Security Center
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_security-center-outside (Naturally you shouldn't use this link to sign in!)

eBay Security Center
http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter

eBay Tutorial on Spoof Emails
http://pages.ebay.com/education/spooftutorial

FTC Site on Identity Theft
http://www.consumer.gov/idtheft

About the author:David Steiner is President of Steiner Associates, publisher of AuctionBytes.com. David was formerly a television producer.



Sorry Folks..its doing me head in ...GGGRRRRRRR
 
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And now you know why I dont use either [paypal-ebay] same company in a word They are SHYTE:nod:
 
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Paypal, Ebay

There is no difference in my book they are the same company owned by the same money making robbing Bast*rds

People say they have never ever had problems with either of them and how can people like myself be so against using either of them. Well Above is exactly why!

I have never and will never use either Paypal or Ebay as long as I exsist on this lonely planet. The company needs to be throughly investigated and treated like they are laundering money. The problem is without going into to much detail their earnings are so great that no Business or Government body wants to mess with them because of the financial implications.

STAY AWAY !!!

When their yearly earning start to decrease then maybe they will get the act together and start looking after people who use their product instead of denying or wanting any responsibility when things go wrong.

Is it possible to even have a hate for a website as much as I do even though I have never used it?
 

Adywebb

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If PayPal have reversed the payment, then has the buyer received the £20 into his account? - if so he can send it to you - if he says not, then either something has gone wrong at his end to request the reversal in the first place, or he is lying.

I may be reading this wrong, but it would appear to be a problem at his end, not yours?

If you have logged in by manually inputing the eBay URL rather than clicking on a link , I can't see how the replies to your contact messages to them can be spoof.
 

Rush

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By AdyWebb

If PayPal have reversed the payment, then has the buyer received the £20 into his account? - if so he can send it to you - if he says not, then either something has gone wrong at his end to request the reversal in the first place, or he is lying.

I may be reading this wrong, but it would appear to be a problem at his end, not yours?


Ady ..That is exactly what i have just requested from him in yet another email ...here it is in its entirety..

Ok, so you paid for the games ,recieved the games,left positive feedback for the games , and are happy with the games ????. (Yes / No)..and you did not reverse the payment ???

I apologies for being blunt ..any other person would have just left negative feedback for you but i just need to see where my recieved payment has gone ???

According to your ebay statement does it state that you paid me and does your Paypal statement say you have paid / or have recieved your money back ????
Regards Paul

He had 2 positive feedbacks from 2 transactions when my games were sold...about 2 weeks ago...he now has 24/24 ...100% so i doubt if he is trying to con me ??????
 

Adywebb

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Be interested to see what his reply is - if PayPal can confirm that the £20 has been returned to his account, then if he denies it he must be lying.

Unless of course HIS PayPal account has be compromised?
 
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Rush

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By AdyWebb
Unless of course HIS PayPal account has be compromised?

Or mine has ????...what i mean is ...Is their anyway anyone could intercept my replies to a legitimate source and divert them to a fake address ???..

Heres an example of recieved Emails ...This one is legit


Dear Paul Stevenson,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
happy to assist you further.

Upon reviewing your account, I can see that you have a reversed payment
on your account. You have a denied payment because the person that your
trying to pay has some issues with PayPal. The money was credited back
to your account but it went to negative balance and you need to restore
your negative balance. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

You can transfer funds into your PayPal account for the amount needed to
bring the account balance to a zero or higher balance. To resolve this
outstanding balance and avoid further action, follow these instructions:




The person i am trying to pay ????????eeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr....transfer funds eeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrr
 

Rush

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Sorry i know its legit as the original question was sent from inside my Paypal..(after another password change) under a complaint heading :mad:
 

Adywebb

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Well they don't appear to even recognise the problem correctly do they?

You were NOT trying to pay anyone - you were receiving a payment, and the money was NOT credited back to your account - it went back to another person :rolleyes:

If you have sent a message to a legitimate source, and they are replying to your registered account email address, I cannot see how the replies can be intercepted.
 
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Rush

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Thanks Ady... I await mister recievers reply with vigor ...

Here is his last reply..not the one i am waiting for ....

LOOK mate you need to ask paypal. Once i pay for the item there is no way i can reverse the payment. Explain to paypal not me. thank you
 

Adywebb

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Looking at that last reply - you need to find out from PayPal exactly who did request the payment, and to what account it went to - forward them a copy of the buyers emails denying making the request (or receiving the payment if that is the case)

Request they then follow up by investigating that account to find out where the payment is now.
 
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Rush

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Ebay / Paypal Jury out !!!!

Posted my 4th complaint about this issue to Paypal ..so in due course should at least recieve some semblance of a rational outcome...or maybe not as the last few have been .........
 

Rush

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Anyway ...after today i need a drink ...

I`m off down the Tavern :) Who will buy me a drink ...any takers...?

 
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Rush

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The Buyers latest reply email...


Hi
Why i want to reverse the payment as i am happy with the games. Also, It paypals problems. I always pay please check my feedback. damm paypal..

The plot thickens :wall:
 

Adywebb

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In which case do as I suggested in post #11 - enclosing a copy of buyers reply.

State also that unless PayPal can resolve this speedily, you are going to report it to the Police as a crime (Fraud) :thumb:
 

Rush

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Will do (Have done) ....They aint exactly speed merchants though :)
 
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Adywebb

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They never are when you want money :rolleyes:

Although I mentioned letting them know you will report it to police, in practice I suspect they will do little to help - but it may put a bit of pressure on PayPal:thumb:
 

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