Dead printhead circuit board?

[Martin]

Hi all,

In my attempts to learn more about the printers I'm using and to test
out a few different CIS systems, waste tank installations, etc.. I
bought a couple of printers from ebay.

Unfortunately, whilst one was declared faulty it turned up DOA and I'm
guessing there's a problem with the power supply or a knocked circuit board.

The other (An Epson C84) though is where I'm focusing as it powers up,
reads cartridge chips just fine but is refusing to actually put a darned
thing on the actual paper.. Nothing at all.

Now, at first I assumed that it was a completely clogged system that's
sat without cartridges installed for over a month and that a patient
outlook, some MIS cleaning fluid and 4 carts of base installed would
finally see it through.

Unfortunately, after 3 days of waiting, various cleaning cycles and
finally a quick check with some colour carts I have here.. I've realised
it's looking more and more like I was lied to about the state of the
machine.


I think the daft idiot who had this machine before actually flooded his
print head with ink thanks to an abortive attempt to refill carts, cr*p
cartridges or just plain stupidity... and killed the circuit board
and/or the head itself completely.

Looking into the print head where the carts are mean't to go I can see
quite a bit of yellow and blue ink has been dried up and seeped into
areas I can only assume lead into the head assembly...


So, in a nutshell I'm looking for confirmation on this.. How can I tell
if the circuit board is completely shot or have I already described the
symptoms of a dead printer head?

Any clues and suggestions much appreciated.

Martin

 

[Tony]

Hi all,

In my attempts to learn more about the printers I'm using and to test
out a few different CIS systems, waste tank installations, etc.. I
bought a couple of printers from ebay.

Unfortunately, whilst one was declared faulty it turned up DOA and I'm
guessing there's a problem with the power supply or a knocked circuit board.

The other (An Epson C84) though is where I'm focusing as it powers up,
reads cartridge chips just fine but is refusing to actually put a darned
thing on the actual paper.. Nothing at all.

Now, at first I assumed that it was a completely clogged system that's
sat without cartridges installed for over a month and that a patient
outlook, some MIS cleaning fluid and 4 carts of base installed would
finally see it through.

Unfortunately, after 3 days of waiting, various cleaning cycles and
finally a quick check with some colour carts I have here.. I've realised
it's looking more and more like I was lied to about the state of the
machine.


I think the daft idiot who had this machine before actually flooded his
print head with ink thanks to an abortive attempt to refill carts, cr*p
cartridges or just plain stupidity... and killed the circuit board
and/or the head itself completely.

Looking into the print head where the carts are mean't to go I can see
quite a bit of yellow and blue ink has been dried up and seeped into
areas I can only assume lead into the head assembly...


So, in a nutshell I'm looking for confirmation on this.. How can I tell
if the circuit board is completely shot or have I already described the
symptoms of a dead printer head?

Any clues and suggestions much appreciated.

Martin

Statistically this is a printhead problem. Circuit board or head cable failure
is very rare. Have you e-mailed Art Entlich for his cleaning manual? His
techniques may be different to the ones you have been using for printhead
recovery. Check this ng for his e-mail address, he does not charge or spam.
Tony

 

[Martin]

Statistically this is a printhead problem. Circuit board or head cable failure
is very rare. Have you e-mailed Art Entlich for his cleaning manual? His
techniques may be different to the ones you have been using for printhead
recovery. Check this ng for his e-mail address, he does not charge or spam.
Tony

I have the manual here and to be honest, what worries me most of all is
that I can see that the cleaning cycle does indeed pull ink from the
cartridges (I have an external waste pot installed) but doesn't print a
thing.

That's why I'm thinking it's the circuit board or cable.

 

[Davy]

The C62 I had and would imagine the C84 is the same, the print hea
cable connects to a circuit board which is then connected to the hea
nozzles via a short cable, these are not seperately removable

These are only removable as the cartridge holder assembley unit, ther
is a small PCB but there was only a SMD resistor on as I can recall
it was just to connect the long flexible ribbon cable to the actua
nozzles

Dav

 

[Jan Alter]

ENOUGH!
I'll confirm it with having six C84 's running in classrooms and two of
them into my kid's rooms at home. They are by far the worst Epsons I've had
the misfortune to put into service since using Epsons starting in 1990.
Despite many injections of specialized "Epson" cleaning fluid, Windex
(original), underside head cleanings with a Windex soaked rag on a flat 6"
metal ruler, changing the ink tanks for new (from CSI, I might add) nothing
could get the clogged head revived. Additionally, at school, I have 3 of
the six C84 machines with clogged colors, and one with a clogged black. The
C84 seems to have a timer on it to start clogging if you do not run it very
often. My bet is that if we started out using these machines with third
party dye based ink there would be a much better probability of long term
survival than the Dura-brite crap that Epson espouses as its improvement.
When they say improvement they must mean they'll make more profit by the
printer dieing quickly.
I should point out that we still have about 26 Epson 740 machines, bought
in 1999 still running of the 36 purchased, and using 3rd party inks, and all
12 Epson 880 's (circa 2001) running. These machines are a breeze to unclog
in comparison to the C84, and I have not lost one of them to a clogging
problem.

 

[Tony]

I have the manual here and to be honest, what worries me most of all is
that I can see that the cleaning cycle does indeed pull ink from the
cartridges (I have an external waste pot installed) but doesn't print a
thing.

That's why I'm thinking it's the circuit board or cable.

You may be right then - bummer.
Tony

 

[Davy]

I did a switch to Canon and not one clog in about 6 months the time
got it, the Epson I had clogged on the 2nd day, the replacemen
sometime later clogged on the 4th day and with OEM ink...

and thought it was just me that had bad Epsons, looks like I wa
wrong

Dav

 

[Martin]

ENOUGH!
I'll confirm it with having six C84 's running in classrooms and two of
them into my kid's rooms at home. They are by far the worst Epsons I've had
the misfortune to put into service since using Epsons starting in 1990.
Despite many injections of specialized "Epson" cleaning fluid, Windex
(original), underside head cleanings with a Windex soaked rag on a flat 6"
metal ruler, changing the ink tanks for new (from CSI, I might add) nothing
could get the clogged head revived. Additionally, at school, I have 3 of
the six C84 machines with clogged colors, and one with a clogged black. The
C84 seems to have a timer on it to start clogging if you do not run it very
often. My bet is that if we started out using these machines with third
party dye based ink there would be a much better probability of long term
survival than the Dura-brite crap that Epson espouses as its improvement.
When they say improvement they must mean they'll make more profit by the
printer dieing quickly.
I should point out that we still have about 26 Epson 740 machines, bought
in 1999 still running of the 36 purchased, and using 3rd party inks, and all
12 Epson 880 's (circa 2001) running. These machines are a breeze to unclog
in comparison to the C84, and I have not lost one of them to a clogging
problem.

Just to note, I agree to a point Jan... I definitely can't deny that you
had problems. I can however point to the experience of a school I
sourced three C84/86 printers for.

They had Epsons in the past, usually C20, C42, etc... and each was in
it's own classroom and barely used. Needless to say they hit the same
problems you mentioned... As soon as vacation time came, you could
guarantee that at least one or more of the printers would be dead when
they came back. Additionally because the printers were rarely used
(nothing was networked back then) they would clog like crazy.

The solution was two fold.

1. To get everything in the school networked properly
2. To source some decent print servers (that took a while)
3. To buy in the new printers (2 x C84's each fitted with a CIS kit)
4. To share the printers with every computer in the school


Now, I'll admit it's a small school with around 250 kids so it's not
been a major problem for the teachers/children to collect their
printouts in the PC lab but by reducing the number of printers and
centralising everything we found two things.
1. The printers were continuously in use
2. Teachers were no longer afraid of the technical problems and using
the printers more (because there were fewer due to the greater use so
they used it more, so they were less afraid, so less problems... you get
the idea )
3. Costs were reduced so the headteacher wasn't panicking about the
budget (he now worries about the paper budget more! )


Now this hasn't resolved the issue of printing over the summer or other
vacations but that was solved by installing the MIS utility (mentioned
in the other thread Jan had). The server is left on throughout the
vactation, as are the printers and their associated servers. The server
can then send out a scheduled command for the printer to print out a 4
colour purge pattern every 2 days or so to keep the printer "exercised".

Granted, I always know that I'll need to come in and sort out the
printers, run a couple of cleaning cycles and give the CIS ink
reservoirs a bit of a swirl to re-mix the inks, but that's just part of
general maintenance. I know that in all cases I can resurrect the
printers with a little work.. certainly a hell of lot quicker than I
could if they were left gathering dust for a whole summer.



For all that, I agree, for a school you'd probably be as good to look at
printers like the Canon iPixma range or even the Epson R2x0 printers
because they use (like the Epson 740's) a dyebase ink... It's less prone
to clogging but it's slower..


You take your choice... Either way... I know you've had a bad experience
with the C84, but I suspect that if you'd followed the sort of approach
I adopted with the school (as above) your experience would have been a
whole lot better...

Hope that gives you a better understanding of where my experience has
come from.

Martin

 

[Martin]

The C62 I had and would imagine the C84 is the same, the print head
cable connects to a circuit board which is then connected to the head
nozzles via a short cable, these are not seperately removable.

These are only removable as the cartridge holder assembley unit, there
is a small PCB but there was only a SMD resistor on as I can recall,
it was just to connect the long flexible ribbon cable to the actual
nozzles.

Davy

Thanks Davy,

To be honest, it wasn't the worst piece of junk I ever got and whilst I
was peeved given that it was supposed to be working (well it was eBay so
my own fault really) it has proven useful to practice my skills in
unblocking clogs and the like, even if I was unsuccessful.

I now have a box of spare parts should I hit any problems with other
C84s or their brother printers... So it's not all bad.

Doubtless at some point I'll pull the thing completely to bits and take
a closer look at what could have caused the error and learn some more
but I think that'll wait until I have a new house and the space to do it.

Thanks for the opinions and suggestions folks... much appreciated

Martin

 

[Jan Alter]

Hi Martin,
I'm convinced that the Durabrite inks are the main villain in this C84
scenario. I'm wondering if there may be more benign inks on the market that
would work accurately with the Epson hardware and software from the start to
make these machines last longer. I've got a dozen sealed C84 printers
sitting in my room to be eventually put into service. I've written to MIS
this morning, asking them if they might have such ink that would work better
than the Durabrite poison to keep them alive longer.
By the way, I'm in an elementary school with 1050 kids, 319 computers,
(two computer labs) and some 65 printers.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

It could be, but is not likely the problem. The two most common
problems with the C86 and other similar printers are:

Underhead clogs

Clogged vacuum tube, which might have even popped off the cleaning station.

If you have not already done so, I suggest you request my free Epson
cleaning manual.

contact me at:

e-printerhelp(at)mvps(dot)org

(at) = @
(dot) = .

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Martin,

You are correct in your assumption that if ink is coming out of the
heads during cleaning cycles yet it is not printing that that is
worrisome. Check to make sure the ribbon cables are properly connected
to the heads.

Disconnect the printer from the computer and check the procedure in the
manual for printing a test page from the printer (it usually involves
turning the printer on while pressing some buttons.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

That's an incredible ratio of kids to computers 3:1, nearly. Sounds
like a nice school system.

I agree that the Durabrite inks are the worse of the bunch that Epson
makes. The dye inks are pretty good and easily cleared if they do clog.
The Ultrachromes are slow drying and have a fairly good record
regarding clogging.

The Durabrites are designed to dry more rapidly, are pigment and acrylic
resin based, and do become problematic. I get more requests from people
using Durabrite inks for the cleaning manual than for all the others.

And, just to be clear, the C62 used dye inks, not Durabrite.

Art

 

[Davy]

Martinwrote
Tony wrote

(snipped
So, in a nutshell I'm looking for confirmation on this.. How can tel
if the circuit board is completely shot or have I already describe th
symptoms of a dead printer head

Any clues and suggestions much appreciated

Marti


Statistically this is a printhead problem. Circuit board or hea cable failur
is very rare. Have you e-mailed Art Entlich for his cleaning manual Hi
techniques may be different to the ones you have been using fo printhea
recovery. Check this ng for his e-mail address, he does not charg or spam
Ton

I have the manual here and to be honest, what worries me most of al
is
that I can see that the cleaning cycle does indeed pull ink from the
cartridges (I have an external waste pot installed) but doesn't prin
a
thing

That's why I'm thinking it's the circuit board o
cable.[/quote:10d1e5779f

Thats why I didn't surgest getting Art cleaning instructions as h
already has it

If the cleaning cycles pulls the ink out then that tells me the pum
is working

The only thing you can do is either apply Arts cleaning instruction
or get a cleaning cartridge and give a few flushes then leave in sit
overnight, the next day give another couple of flushes and then wit
a new set of ink tanks give another couple of flushes

If that don't work I'm sure nothing else will

Nothing can be gained by dismantling the head unit, the whol
assembley can be removed for cleaning purposes and thats about al
you can do. The flat ribbon cables are soldered to the PCB and ar
not soldered with the usual type soldering irons, the only place th
whole unit un-plugs from is the printer's main circuit board

Dav

 

[Martin]

Hi Martin,
I'm convinced that the Durabrite inks are the main villain in this C84
scenario. I'm wondering if there may be more benign inks on the market that
would work accurately with the Epson hardware and software from the start to
make these machines last longer. I've got a dozen sealed C84 printers
sitting in my room to be eventually put into service. I've written to MIS
this morning, asking them if they might have such ink that would work better
than the Durabrite poison to keep them alive longer.
By the way, I'm in an elementary school with 1050 kids, 319 computers,
(two computer labs) and some 65 printers.

Oh I don't doubt it... As Art has pointed out he gets a hell of a lot
more problems reported for the DURABrite set compared with others...
which, given the fact the solvent is faster drying, is not surprising.

For what it's worth, my experience is NOT based on normal Epson OEM inks
but on the MIS Chrome equivalent (They now have MIS Pro) so perhaps
there's some mileage in that aspect of things. Certainly we've managed
to get a couple of occassions where I had to run a few cleaning cycles
to get the printers working again but nothing sustained.

Last thing.. It never occured to me to ask before but were/are you using
Epson branded carts or a 3rd party after-market supplier? If the latter
whose?

 

[measekite]

Hi Martin,
I'm convinced that the Durabrite inks are the main villain in this C84
scenario. I'm wondering if there may be more benign inks on the market that
would work accurately with the Epson hardware and software from the start to
make these machines last longer. I've got a dozen sealed C84 printers
sitting in my room to be eventually put into service. I've written to MIS
this morning,

HE HE HE
NO NO NO
HA HA HA
THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT THEY WANT TO SELL YOU

asking them if they might have such ink that would work better
than the Durabrite poison to keep them alive longer.
By the way, I'm in an elementary school with 1050 kids, 319 computers,
(two computer labs) and some 65 printers.

AND THE TAXPAYERS HAVE TO PAY FOR AFTERMARKET CLOGS

 

[measekite]

Oh I don't doubt it... As Art has pointed out he gets a hell of a lot
more problems reported for the DURABrite set compared with others...
which, given the fact the solvent is faster drying, is not surprising.

For what it's worth, my experience is NOT based on normal Epson OEM
inks but on the MIS Chrome equivalent

THAT IS JUST A LABEL. YOU REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS CAUSE THEY WILL
NOT TELL YOU

 

[Jan Alter]

When the Epson original cartridges ran out we use 3rd party ink form Inktec.
I could formalize a theory that they caused the clog themselves rather than
the Epson ink starting the clogging from the start.
We use Inktec with our 740/880 printers for several years now. However,
the possibilty is there that this Inktec mixture could be causing the clogs.
Just can't discount it.

 

[Martin]

When the Epson original cartridges ran out we use 3rd party ink form Inktec.
I could formalize a theory that they caused the clog themselves rather than
the Epson ink starting the clogging from the start.
We use Inktec with our 740/880 printers for several years now. However,
the possibilty is there that this Inktec mixture could be causing the clogs.
Just can't discount it.

I can't comment on Inktec myself but you could do some searching around
to see what people have thought/think about that brand (specifically for
Epson C series printers) and if they've spotted problems.

All I can say is that I've been buying MIS inks now for over 5 years
(started with an Epson 740 myself) and then went to C84's on CIS kits
before going a bit whappy and testing on R200, R300's and D88's...

To date the school I started out with, has gotten through over 7 US
pints of bulk MIS Ultrachrome equivalent bulk ink and we've had few
problems, if any. Certainly nothing that has required a new printer or
more than 15 minutes attention.

Cheers

 

[measekite]

I can't comment on Inktec myself but you could do some searching
around to see what people have thought/think about that brand

IT IS A LABEL NOT A BRAND

(specifically for Epson C series printers) and if they've spotted
problems.

All I can say is that I've been buying MIS ink

NOT A BRAND EITHER BUT A STORE LABEL

s now for over 5 years (started with an Epson 740 myself) and then
went to C84's on CIS kits before going a bit whappy and testing on
R200, R300's and D88's...

To date the school I started out with, has gotten through over 7 US
pints of bulk MIS Ultrachrome

equivalent

THE OVER USED WORD WHEN THEY ARE NOT UP TO SNUFF AND WILL NOT TELL YOU
WHO MAKES IT.