Church need small network

[Montrose]

My church wants me to help them set up a small network of 4 computers. Is it
best to se up a wireless network and us what microsoft provides or set up a
Linux server? I'm new to this so pleas excuse the dumb questions. They don't
care much about security but would like a relyable , inexpensive system.
What the best way to go about this? They already have 4 computers ready to
go, and some antiquated wiring. Should I just do wireless?

 

[Bit Twister]

My church wants me to help them set up a small network of 4 computers. Is it
best to se up a wireless network and us what microsoft provides or set up a
Linux server?

Depends on if you want a more secure os to run on, and what
applications they will be wanting to run.

I'm new to this so pleas excuse the dumb questions. They don't
care much about security

Until their system is cracked, used for kiddy porn server, cracking
other systems to steal credit card info, used as a email spam bot,
laundering credit cards, .... and deputy dog shows up trying to arrest
people responsible for the systems or court handing out $1,000 fine
per email.

but would like a relyable , inexpensive system.

Linux is buy one copy, install on as many systems as needed.

What the best way to go about this? They already have 4 computers ready to
go, and some antiquated wiring. Should I just do wireless?

Hey, ask around about wiring, someone in the church may do it for
free.

If you go wireless, buy hardware which is linux compatible so
you have a choice.

You will need to lockdown/encript so war drivers
do not break into you network.

I'll suggest downloading the free 3 mandriva cd iso set, check sums
against downloaded isos, burn them, do a dual boot install and get
aquainted with it's features.

Mirror list found here
http://www.mandriva.com/en/downloads/mirrors/2006

ISO directory example
pub/linux/distributions/mandrakelinux/official/iso/2006.0/i586

windows checksum programs
ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/binary/sha1sum.exe
http://etree.org/md5com.html

You will need
Mandriva-Linux-Free-2006-CD.i586.md5.asc 1 KB
Mandriva-Linux-Free-2006-CD.i586.sha1.asc 1 KB
Mandriva-Linux-Free-2006-CD1.i586.iso 712774 KB
Mandriva-Linux-Free-2006-CD2.i586.iso 712540 KB
Mandriva-Linux-Free-2006-CD3.i586.iso 712882 KB

 

[ray]

My church wants me to help them set up a small network of 4 computers. Is it
best to se up a wireless network and us what microsoft provides or set up a
Linux server? I'm new to this so pleas excuse the dumb questions. They don't
care much about security but would like a relyable , inexpensive system.
What the best way to go about this? They already have 4 computers ready to
go, and some antiquated wiring. Should I just do wireless?

FWIW - I installed four linux computers at the local library for public
access internet use in January of last year. It was an overwhelming
success. Zero complaints so far. A customer satisfaction survey a few
months ago showed universal acceptance. The director is ecstatic - before
the changeover, she was called to the floor at least three times per day
to help patrons with internet problems - since then, not at all. We've
recently added a four head Userful setup to augment - eight Linux seats
now in one small library - in constant use and no malware infestations.

 

[kurt]

First of all, wire it if at all possible unless it's just for Internet
access. Even church records, as benign as they may seem, contain
information that most would consider private. Securing wireless is only
half the battle, getting it to work 100% of the time and with decent
connection speed is the other half.

If they want to run Windows applications, they'll need Windows. If they
don't have anything now and can start right off with OpenOffice,
Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. you'd be surprised how "right-at-home"
they'll feel running those applications if they were previously running
Office, IE and Outlook Express. The other main thing to consider is
whether or not they will need to communicate with Windows computers that
they already have. This can be done in Linux, and really isn't all that
hard for someone who is fairly well versed in networking, but could be a
bit of a challenge for a complete newbie. That said, Microsoft's Home
Networking Wizard rarely works without some knowledgeable tweaking, and
the result is very insecure. A Linux server won't replace wired or
wireless networking, you'll need one or the other set up regardless of
the OS you choose. IF you need a server and are willing to go through a
bit of a learning curve getting things set up, you'll save yourself (and
your fellow members) a bundle by going with Linux. A Windows Server OS
is at least $600.00 street price and you'll be lucky to find it for
that. Linux is Free.

Compare:

LINUX WINDOWS

 

[Bit Twister]

Compare:

LINUX WINDOWS

You left out cost of malware scanners....
Then there will be the cost of Vista in a few years and have to buy
the microsoft/third party apps again.

Guessing those PCs will not be stout enough to run Vista so you may
have to buy newer PCs.

 

[Dan N]

do wireless?

FWIW - I installed four linux computers at the local library for public
access internet use in January of last year.

I remember your earlier posts, but I've forgotten what flavour of linux
you used?

Dan

 

[Dan N]

My church wants me to help them set up a small network of 4 computers.

It depends on what you want to do. Are you planning on connecting your
network to the internet? The quickest, cheapest, simplest method is to
get an adsl modem/router with four ports. Run a cable from each of the
four computers to the modem/router. The modem/router will take care of
firewalling and dchp (internet address assignment). If cables are too
hard, then get a modem/router with wifi, and make sure each of your
computers has a wifi card. All four computers will share the internet,
and you'll be able to also share files (Windows networking) between them.
You can get this up and running with a minimum of configuration and hair
pulling. I use a D-link DSL-G604T, but there are lots of others. There
are also similar devices for cable rather than adsl.

If you simply want to connect your computers together, without the
internet, then get a simple hub or switch and cable them all into it.
This is enough to do file sharing amongst them. You will have to
configure each computer's ip address, not hard. If you want to go
wireless, then get a wifi access point and wifi cards.

If you want your own mail server, web server or file server plus internet
gateway, then any modern distribution of linux will work. But this will
require more thinking.

Dan

 

[Mike Scott]

My church wants me to help them set up a small network of 4 computers. Is it
best to se up a wireless network and us what microsoft provides or set up a
Linux server? I'm new to this so pleas excuse the dumb questions. They don't

Linux isn't the only non-Redmond boy on the block. There are several
xxxBSD systems freely available, some would argue with better support -
I suspect a lot is what you're used to.

care much about security but would like a relyable , inexpensive system.
What the best way to go about this? They already have 4 computers ready to
go, and some antiquated wiring. Should I just do wireless?

Wireless is a /pain/. If there's no choice, do it. If you can wire
things up, that's vastly more reliable and secure. Wireless is subject
to vagaries of signal strength, and is fundamentally less secure than wired.

Incidentally, to echo another poster's comments, security is a /must/.
And it's best put in from the start - it's hard to bolt on security to a
fundamentally insecure setup.

FWIW I have a setup at home using a FreeBSD box as cable modem gateway,
linked to 2 LANS, one wired, one wireless. I run my own mailserver on
the same box (that's actually a calculated insecurity It also
handles a mailing list or two for my own church), and between that and
the firewall, lose 99%+ of incoming spam before it's seen. The firewall
logs /all/ outbound connections, so I can keep an eye on what the kids
are up to. I also run my own web, DNS and time servers, and the same box
offers windows file sharing as well. It all works very well, the main
problem being the urge to tinker.........

 

[Montrose]

The other main thing to consider is
whether or not they will need to communicate with Windows computers that
they already have. This can be done in Linux, and really isn't all that
hard for someone who is fairly well versed in networking, but could be a
bit of a challenge for a complete newbie. That said, Microsoft's Home
Networking Wizard rarely works without some knowledgeable tweaking, and
the result is very insecure. A Linux server won't replace wired or
wireless networking, you'll need one or the other set up regardless of
the OS you choose.

At this point they only use the computer for email and to browse the web
with ie explorer and outlook express, and they use Lotus to print their
flyers and mailings. The Pastor uses a Sony Vao laptop which is wireless on
a Linksys Router. It's connected to one PC and they would like to connect at
most two more. All they want to do is be able to print and transfer files
from one machine to another while keeping the Pastors, and Church data
semi-secure (i.e., nosey members. But that's about all their needs are "for
now".

I hope this make it more clear. Their wireless router seems to have gone bad
so this is the point I'm at now.

 

[ray]

I remember your earlier posts, but I've forgotten what flavour of linux
you used?

Dan

The original four seats are using Mandrake - 10, I think. I plan to
install Ubuntu when I get the time. The more recent four seat Userful
station runs RHEL.

 

[Montrose]

Wireless is a /pain/. If there's no choice, do it. If you can wire
things up, that's vastly more reliable and secure. Wireless is subject
to vagaries of signal strength, and is fundamentally less secure than
wired.

Incidentally, to echo another poster's comments, security is a /must/.
And it's best put in from the start - it's hard to bolt on security to a
fundamentally insecure setup.

I've walked into a situation where several people volunteered to set up
their computer and sound system in the previous years. Their database
doesn't even contain email addresses. They use Lotus to manage their list
and newsletter. I'd like to bring them technologically up to date and
straighten things out but with the mix of systems and my limited knowledge
I'm facing these choices. For now I'm (the best) all they have. So I'm
trying to approach this as if I'm setting up a home network.

The person who installed the sound/video system took a walk recently to so I
had to rig the digital projector and bypass a broken mixer just so we could
show a dvd. The sound system has also three different setups. Wired,
wireless, professionally installed, rigged, portable...

I'm over my head but like I said I'm the best they have right now. I got
everything technically functioning but it's still a rig the was created by
several different people who are no longer with the church.

 

[Mike Scott]

I've walked into a situation where several people volunteered to set up
their computer and sound system in the previous years. Their database
doesn't even contain email addresses. They use Lotus to manage their list
and newsletter. I'd like to bring them technologically up to date and
straighten things out but with the mix of systems and my limited knowledge
I'm facing these choices. For now I'm (the best) all they have. So I'm
trying to approach this as if I'm setting up a home network.

The person who installed the sound/video system took a walk recently to so I
had to rig the digital projector and bypass a broken mixer just so we could
show a dvd. The sound system has also three different setups. Wired,
wireless, professionally installed, rigged, portable...

I'm over my head but like I said I'm the best they have right now. I got
everything technically functioning but it's still a rig the was created by
several different people who are no longer with the church.

You have my sympathy. Maybe you need to bite the bullet and persuade
Those in Charge that they need to spend some real money. I don't think
it's worthwhile bodging existing things so they just about sort-of work
-- or the guy after you will be saying much the same sorts of things.
People /never/ (OK, very rarely) appreciate work done on the cheap. If
they're paying, they'll appreciate that here's something that /will/
need ongoing maintenance. Make it a high-profile project, in other words.

If the requirements really are only a bit of WP plus email and web and
if you have the time to spare, I'd suggest looking around for a
second-hand last-year's-spec machine to play with. Have a play on that
- install linux, freebsd -- whatever's /free/ and you find easiest.
Install openoffice, thunderbird, firefox (also free) and configure it
all to work easily and clearly - bearing in mind this is your demo
machine that you're going to persuade and teach unskilled people to use.
If you're careful, you can set up a un*x box so configuration is almost
fully automatic, so if they like it, it's easy to set up any other boxes
the same way -- the key to multi-machine management is /no differences
allowed/.

If they /really/ don't like un*x, try the same with an XP base, although
you'll need a more powerful machine and the OS won't be free You
can still install the same free applications though; and you'll probably
find the users will mess up the system.

By the way, if you're setting up any sort of database with personal
data, you'll need to be aware of DPA requirements, which will probably
mean backing up the data and keeping it secure, not to mention
registering the database with HMG.

 

[Montrose]

By the way, if you're setting up any sort of database with personal
data, you'll need to be aware of DPA requirements, which will probably
mean backing up the data and keeping it secure, not to mention
registering the database with HMG.

This is a 501C church. I'm not familiar who DPA and HMG is. I'm positive
they don't. Could you explain please?

 

[Mike Scott]

This is a 501C church. I'm not familiar who DPA and HMG is. I'm positive
they don't. Could you explain please?

Data Protection Act. They (and you) jolly well ought to be aware of it,
because it doesn't just apply to computers. It's only been the law of
the land for... how many years?

Her Majesty's Government. Specifically the Data Protection people.

 

[Montrose]

Data Protection Act. They (and you) jolly well ought to be aware of it,
because it doesn't just apply to computers. It's only been the law of
the land for... how many years?

Her Majesty's Government. Specifically the Data Protection people.

I'm in the USA and I know of no such laws. Anyone else?

 

[Mike Scott]

I'm in the USA and I know of no such laws. Anyone else?

Ooops. I know I tend to be a bit parochial at times. For some obscure
reason I was convinced I was reading a uk.* newsgroup. Sorry.

 

[Montrose]

Ooops. I know I tend to be a bit parochial at times. For some obscure
reason I was convinced I was reading a uk.* newsgroup. Sorry.

I like you guys. I think there's more honesty in a UK group.