Can't Boot into Windows

[Neil]

I have a friend who has a laptop that will not boot. When she boots it with
the power cord plugged in, it starts to boot and then shuts off. With the
battery removed, it seems to work better, but still shuts off. Sometimes she
can get it to boot a little into Windows, but then gives her an error
message (see below), and then shuts down.

Though it seems to me to be a hardware issue, someone told her to reinstall
Windows (XP Home). So she put in the Windows disk, and it began the
reinstall. It actually got much further than it had in the past when just
trying to boot. So that made me think that maybe it was something related to
Windows.

She said she got to a part asking if she wanted to create a FAT partition or
something to that effect (she doesn't remember the actual prompt), and,
after that, the system shut down. Here's her actual message to me:

"I got a CD from Dell, to reload my Windows XP. I got my laptop to boot
from the CD. It loaded lots of files. Drivers and such. And now it wants
to put a FAT partition or something like that on. In order to do that it
will erase what I have on the hard drive. (I think) But then, when I clicked
ENTER the whole thing just went blank which makes me think - yes - the power
cord needs to be replaced. But I'm wondering do you think the hard drive is
okay if it's working this far, loading stuff on and giving me options?

"AS before, when it starts without the CD booting it, which I can get it to
do if I have patience, it gives me the same error message of it shut down to
prevent damage to my computer and its a unbootable volume error (I'm not
sure of these words, it's something like that)."

My instinct at this point would be to reformat the C drive, then reinstall
Windows. Perhaps the hard drive just got corrupted and needs to be
reformatted.

Any ideas/thoughts/suggestions?

Also, is it possible to just boot from the Windows XP CD, without loading
Windows from the hard drive? Perhaps that might show whether it's a hard
drive or Windows problem or none of the above.

Thanks!

Neil

 

[Malke]

I have a friend who has a laptop that will not boot. When she boots it with
the power cord plugged in, it starts to boot and then shuts off. With the
battery removed, it seems to work better, but still shuts off. Sometimes she
can get it to boot a little into Windows, but then gives her an error
message (see below), and then shuts down.

Though it seems to me to be a hardware issue, someone told her to reinstall
Windows (XP Home). So she put in the Windows disk, and it began the
reinstall. It actually got much further than it had in the past when just
trying to boot. So that made me think that maybe it was something related to
Windows.

She said she got to a part asking if she wanted to create a FAT partition or
something to that effect (she doesn't remember the actual prompt), and,
after that, the system shut down. Here's her actual message to me:

"I got a CD from Dell, to reload my Windows XP. I got my laptop to boot
from the CD. It loaded lots of files. Drivers and such. And now it wants
to put a FAT partition or something like that on. In order to do that it
will erase what I have on the hard drive. (I think) But then, when I clicked
ENTER the whole thing just went blank which makes me think - yes - the power
cord needs to be replaced. But I'm wondering do you think the hard drive is
okay if it's working this far, loading stuff on and giving me options?

"AS before, when it starts without the CD booting it, which I can get it to
do if I have patience, it gives me the same error message of it shut down to
prevent damage to my computer and its a unbootable volume error (I'm not
sure of these words, it's something like that)."

My instinct at this point would be to reformat the C drive, then reinstall
Windows. Perhaps the hard drive just got corrupted and needs to be
reformatted.

Any ideas/thoughts/suggestions?

Also, is it possible to just boot from the Windows XP CD, without loading
Windows from the hard drive? Perhaps that might show whether it's a hard
drive or Windows problem or none of the above.

From your very thorough description of the problem (thanks!), this is
hardwar-related and not software. Your friend should contact Dell tech
support for repair/replacement.


Malke

 

[John John]

I have a friend who has a laptop that will not boot. When she boots it with
the power cord plugged in, it starts to boot and then shuts off. With the
battery removed, it seems to work better, but still shuts off. Sometimes she
can get it to boot a little into Windows, but then gives her an error
message (see below), and then shuts down.

Though it seems to me to be a hardware issue, someone told her to reinstall
Windows (XP Home). So she put in the Windows disk, and it began the
reinstall. It actually got much further than it had in the past when just
trying to boot. So that made me think that maybe it was something related to
Windows.

She said she got to a part asking if she wanted to create a FAT partition or
something to that effect (she doesn't remember the actual prompt), and,
after that, the system shut down. Here's her actual message to me:

"I got a CD from Dell, to reload my Windows XP. I got my laptop to boot
from the CD. It loaded lots of files. Drivers and such. And now it wants
to put a FAT partition or something like that on. In order to do that it
will erase what I have on the hard drive. (I think) But then, when I clicked
ENTER the whole thing just went blank which makes me think - yes - the power
cord needs to be replaced. But I'm wondering do you think the hard drive is
okay if it's working this far, loading stuff on and giving me options?

"AS before, when it starts without the CD booting it, which I can get it to
do if I have patience, it gives me the same error message of it shut down to
prevent damage to my computer and its a unbootable volume error (I'm not
sure of these words, it's something like that)."

My instinct at this point would be to reformat the C drive, then reinstall
Windows. Perhaps the hard drive just got corrupted and needs to be
reformatted.

Any ideas/thoughts/suggestions?

Also, is it possible to just boot from the Windows XP CD, without loading
Windows from the hard drive? Perhaps that might show whether it's a hard
drive or Windows problem or none of the above.

Thanks!

Neil

Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;314058

Have her run chkdsk /r on the drive.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/.../proddocs/en-us/bootcons_chkdsk.mspx?mfr=true

John

 

[Mike Walsh]

With a Dell you should be able to press a function key (don't know which one, F5. F8, F12 ?) to load a diagnostic program. If the program will load you can run diagnostics. If the program won't load you probably have a bad hard drive.

 

[Todd H.]

I have a friend who has a laptop that will not boot. When she boots it with
the power cord plugged in, it starts to boot and then shuts off.

Windows detractors might not be able to resist a comment like:

She should consider herself lucky!

Depending on the day and the problem, I am such a detractor, but
stillw we gotta work with these things. *sigh*.

With the battery removed, it seems to work better, but still shuts
off. Sometimes she can get it to boot a little into Windows, but
then gives her an error message (see below), and then shuts down.

Though it seems to me to be a hardware issue, someone told her to reinstall
Windows (XP Home). So she put in the Windows disk, and it began the
reinstall. It actually got much further than it had in the past when just
trying to boot. So that made me think that maybe it was something related to
Windows.

She said she got to a part asking if she wanted to create a FAT partition or
something to that effect (she doesn't remember the actual prompt), and,
after that, the system shut down. Here's her actual message to me:

"I got a CD from Dell, to reload my Windows XP. I got my laptop to boot
from the CD. It loaded lots of files. Drivers and such. And now it wants
to put a FAT partition or something like that on. In order to do that it
will erase what I have on the hard drive. (I think) But then, when I clicked
ENTER the whole thing just went blank which makes me think - yes - the power
cord needs to be replaced. But I'm wondering do you think the hard drive is
okay if it's working this far, loading stuff on and giving me options?

"AS before, when it starts without the CD booting it, which I can get it to
do if I have patience, it gives me the same error message of it shut down to
prevent damage to my computer and its a unbootable volume error (I'm not
sure of these words, it's something like that)."

My instinct at this point would be to reformat the C drive, then reinstall
Windows. Perhaps the hard drive just got corrupted and needs to be
reformatted.

Any ideas/thoughts/suggestions?

Also, is it possible to just boot from the Windows XP CD, without loading
Windows from the hard drive? Perhaps that might show whether it's a hard
drive or Windows problem or none of the above.

Yes, this is possible. You boot the Windows CD, and when it will
prompt you and give an option to Repair a windows installation.

From there, it should ask for the admin password and drop you to a DOS
prompt. From there, I'd strongly recommend a variant of

chkdsk /f


But be prepared for needing to replace the laptop hard drive. That
teh machine gets as far as it does on the CD alone, and then locks up
when accessing the hard disk to format it indicates a problem. If
there is audible clicking when the hard drive operates, it's almost a
sure bet.

Also, do a quick search on teh dell support site as to the key press
to get the option to boot the Dell diagnostic aprtition to run
hardware checks. If the disk is well enough to give access to that,
of course. It's on a separate partition at least.

If the drive is clicking, save yourself a lot of headache and order a
replacement, and start from scratch.

Best Regards,

 

[Guest]

:

"... it gives me the same error message of it shut down to prevent damage to
my computer..."

There's a number of reasons why windows would display that message, but the
most common ones are related to overheating and a bad Hard Disk. Both these
emergency shutdowns are controlled by your BIOS and they kick in to prevent
damage to your computer (in case of overheating) or to prevent loss of data
(in case of the of the Hard Disk S.M.A.R.T function).

"... and its a unbootable volume error..."

This part of your message suggests that the Hard Disk S.M.A.R.T function has
detected a serious problem in your HDD and has shut down the machine to
prevent the further loss of any valuable data you may have stored on it.
I would suggest you to run the diagnostic tool from Dell (if avaliable) or
the chkdsk command from the windows CD console to check your HDD.
But keep in mind that if you have important data stored on your disk and it
is in fact damaged, then accessing it may cause further damage to it's
surface and the data stored on it, rendering a successful data recovery more
and more improbable with each time you try to access the disk.

 

[Neil]

Thanks. Data recovery isn't an issue. Only issue is getting the machine
working again and trying to avoid sending it to Dell and spending hundreds
on repair costs. Replacing the hard drive would be a viable option, if that
were the problem.

 

[Neil]

Great idea. Thanks.

With a Dell you should be able to press a function key (don't know which
one, F5. F8, F12 ?) to load a diagnostic program. If the program will load
you can run diagnostics. If the program won't load you probably have a bad
hard drive.

 

[Neil]

Thanks. If it were the hard drive, i guess that would explain why, when
booting normally, it would shut down after a few seconds most of the time?
At first we thought it was the power supply or the motherboard because it
would just turn off. But if it was the hard drive, and if the machine was
trying to load Windows from the hard drive, then that would explain why it
would shut off after a few seconds, right?

 

[Neil]

Thanks.

Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;314058

Have her run chkdsk /r on the drive.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/.../proddocs/en-us/bootcons_chkdsk.mspx?mfr=true

John

 

[Neil]

Thanks.

From your very thorough description of the problem (thanks!), this is
hardwar-related and not software. Your friend should contact Dell tech
support for repair/replacement.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

 

[Todd H.]

Thanks. If it were the hard drive, i guess that would explain why, when
booting normally, it would shut down after a few seconds most of the time?
At first we thought it was the power supply or the motherboard because it
would just turn off. But if it was the hard drive, and if the machine was
trying to load Windows from the hard drive, then that would explain why it
would shut off after a few seconds, right?

Hard to say from here, but that it's powering itself off is indeed
very strange. Maybe the hard drive is pulling more current than it
should that's leading the powersupply to shut down, maybe it's
thermal (though that'd be surprising to get too hot THAT quickly), who
knows.


I personally would be throwing a LInux live CD (such as Ubuntu, or
System Rescue Cd, or any of the hundreds that are out there) into the
drive and trying to boot from there. That I know doesn't touch the
hard disk and can at least suss out a problem with hardware other than
the hard disk. If that didn't fly I'd try removing the hard disk
entirely and booting from CD.

Odd that you mention that things are happier with teh battery out. I
have seen bad batteries do really mystifying things. If you have a
shorted cell in teh battery, that could also trigger hard shutdowns.

 

[Neil]

Hard to say from here, but that it's powering itself off is indeed
very strange. Maybe the hard drive is pulling more current than it
should that's leading the powersupply to shut down, maybe it's
thermal (though that'd be surprising to get too hot THAT quickly), who
knows.


I personally would be throwing a LInux live CD (such as Ubuntu, or
System Rescue Cd, or any of the hundreds that are out there) into the
drive and trying to boot from there. That I know doesn't touch the
hard disk and can at least suss out a problem with hardware other than
the hard disk. If that didn't fly I'd try removing the hard disk
entirely and booting from CD.

I wasn't aware that you could boot without a hard drive. I thought, at some
level, you always needed one. That's good to know. (Kind of reminds me of
the "dual-floppy" systems from years ago. I remember when I was buying my
first PC, with tech expert friend of mine told me that "you don't need a
hard drive." He had two 5 1/4" floppy drives, put the Word Perfect software
disk in one, and put his data disk in the other. "What more do you need?"
Ah, those were the days.... )

Odd that you mention that things are happier with teh battery out. I
have seen bad batteries do really mystifying things. If you have a
shorted cell in teh battery, that could also trigger hard shutdowns.

Right, and that was my original thought. But then it failed with the battery
out, as well. So that led me to think it was the power supply (more stressed
with the battery in, as having to do a recharge and power the system). But
with her being able to go far with the CD load, according to what most are
saying here, and what makes sense to me as well, it does seem to point to
the hard drive. The battery thing might have just been a coinidence (she
said it's not consistent, and she can even boot into Windows if she tries
enough times).

Neil

 

[Todd H.]

I wasn't aware that you could boot without a hard drive. I thought, at some
level, you always needed one.

Nope, not a requirement at all.

That's good to know. (Kind of reminds me of
the "dual-floppy" systems from years ago. I remember when I was buying my
first PC, with tech expert friend of mine told me that "you don't need a
hard drive." He had two 5 1/4" floppy drives, put the Word Perfect software
disk in one, and put his data disk in the other. "What more do you need?"
Ah, those were the days.... )

Hee hee... Indeed.

Right, and that was my original thought. But then it failed with the battery
out, as well. So that led me to think it was the power supply (more stressed
with the battery in, as having to do a recharge and power the system). But
with her being able to go far with the CD load, according to what most are
saying here, and what makes sense to me as well, it does seem to point to
the hard drive. The battery thing might have just been a coinidence (she
said it's not consistent, and she can even boot into Windows if she tries
enough times).

Swapping the power supply out should be simple enough if she ambles to
a store and asks a salesperson nicely just to test it. There should
be compatible power supplies around to test with anywhere laptops are
sold. I haven't experienced a power supply going wonky but it could
happen, and would fit the unpredictable pattern that's being seen
here.



Best Regards,

 

[Neil]

Right, and that was my original thought. But then it failed with the

Swapping the power supply out should be simple enough if she ambles to
a store and asks a salesperson nicely just to test it. There should
be compatible power supplies around to test with anywhere laptops are
sold. I haven't experienced a power supply going wonky but it could
happen, and would fit the unpredictable pattern that's being seen
here.

Well, that was my original thought. But, apparently, Dell changes power cord
tip sizes like a woman changes a dress. She and I both have Dells; but our
power cord tips won't fit in each other's computers. And I have a Dell from
a year before the laptop I currently have, which also has a different type
of tip. So to think that some computer store's going to have all these tips
laying around is wishful thinking. She actually did take it to the Dell
kiosk nearby and the salesman there said he didn't have a power cord that
matched her computer (but did tell her that it looked like she needed a new
laptop, and they start at about $1400 -- idiot; I hate sleezebags like
that). Anyway, don't think we can find a matching tip.

I told her, though, to just buy a new power cord from Dell for about $70,
and if it doesn't solve the problem, just return it, as Dell has a 21-day
return policy. Would only cost the shipping charges. Could probably just buy
a cord and a hard drive and then return the one that's not needed.

Neil

 

[svinod]

Thanks. Data recovery isn't an issue. Only issue is getting the machine
working again and trying to avoid sending it to Dell and spending hundreds
on repair costs. Replacing the hard drive would be a viable option, if that
were the problem.

I am whether its a hardware or software problem.But dell systems have
inbuilt HDD diag.If yours is a SATA HDD there is no point in running the
diag becoz that diag wont support sata HDDs if u have IDE HDD start the
diag by pressing CTRL+ALT+D when u see the dell logo on the monitor.If
diag return code is 7 Then its an Windows problem,If its other than
return code 7 Call dell tech support with Return code.

 

[Neil]

I don't know if there's a difference between SATA and ATA, but the hard
drive specs say it's ATA:

"It has an 8 MB cache and features 44-pin ATA-6 interface - providing
maximum transfer rate of up to 100 MBps (Ultra DMA mode 5). In addition,
this drive offers 5400 RPM rotational speed for fast data access. The drive
supports Self-Monitoring Analysis, and Reporting Technology (S.M.A.R.T)
which alerts the system of any negative reliability status conditions. The
host systems can then alert and advise users on taking appropriate actions
to avoid potential system failure or downtime."

 

[Neil]

Thanks to everyone for your assistance. Here's an update on the situation.

I asked to her to repeat the previous steps, to try and do a Windows install
from the CD, just to see if it crashed at the same place (trying to create
the FAT partition). Here's the note I just got from her:

"I just turned it on to try installing again and see if it got stuck in the
same place (the FAT thing) and it lit up for a second and shut off. Then I
tried it again and jiggled the cord and it shut off again. I don't think
it's crashing, I think it's just shutting off because the cord is loose. I
think I need a new cord."

So I don't know what happened that first time (except that she's said that
she was occasionally able to keep it on for more than a few seconds; maybe
that was one of those times). But it does appear that perhaps that FAT thing
was a fluke, and that it might be a power issue after all....

 

[Todd H.]

Thanks to everyone for your assistance. Here's an update on the situation.

I asked to her to repeat the previous steps, to try and do a Windows install
from the CD, just to see if it crashed at the same place (trying to create
the FAT partition). Here's the note I just got from her:

"I just turned it on to try installing again and see if it got stuck in the
same place (the FAT thing) and it lit up for a second and shut off. Then I
tried it again and jiggled the cord and it shut off again. I don't think
it's crashing, I think it's just shutting off because the cord is loose. I
think I need a new cord."

So I don't know what happened that first time (except that she's said that
she was occasionally able to keep it on for more than a few seconds; maybe
that was one of those times). But it does appear that perhaps that FAT thing
was a fluke, and that it might be a power issue after all....

Ah...

Now... the last thing to verify is

power jack vs the powersupply+cord assembly


If the power jack itself has a cold solder joint or is otherwise
screwed up, she might end up getting a new powersupply and cord only
to find the problem persists.

Some focusing on moving the cord and plug barrel in various ways can
narrow that down perhaps.

Now the other lingering question in this evolving myster is "just how
totally dead is the battery on this thing such that it's THIS
sensitive to some power cord movement?"

Has she gotten the "charging" indicator to illiuminate and then left
everything alone to let the battery charge overnight? If not it
should be tried.

Best Regards,

 

[Neil]

I think the battery's pretty much dead. For several months before this, she
complained about only getting a half hour of charge from a fully charged
battery (only a year or two old). So my guess is that the cord wasn't
charging the battery fully; the battery eventually lost its charge (even if
she was using it with power cord plugged in, she may have been on battery);
and now the battery's completely dead. Thus, when the cord loses power for a
second, it shuts itself off.

Keep in mind that the battery only needs to be below a threshold for the
system to shut itself off. So my guess is that that's what's happening. But
I'm going over there tonight to look at it first-hand. Any
thoughts/ideas/suggestions (besides the ones you already noted) are
appreciated.

Thanks,

Neil