Cannot Read 3.5" High Density Diskette

[allanc]

I have a relatively new (6 months old) Dell PC with a built-in 3.5"
diskette.

About 6 years ago someone created several 2HD diskettes on a PC.
These diskettes can be read on a NT server (about 10 years old) but
not my new Dell PC.

Is there a setting that I have to adjust on my Dell?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Brent]

mmm Only thing I could think of is that the NT server is NTFS and your Dell
might be Fat32. I haven't seen a Fat32 PC in a while, but it might be
possible in your case. More details about the system would help. What
version of windows are you running?

 

[allanc]

The new Dell Pc is XP sp3 and is formatted with NTFS.
That reminds me though....
A while back I was trying to write a large file (about 4 Gb) to a USB
stick and an error message was displayed that I was out of room.
I called the manufacturer and he had me change a setting somewhere
(which I did not note, of course).
Then, I could write the large file.
He said that my USB was set as FAT32 instead of NTFS.
I wonder if the issues are similiar.

 

[Brent]

It could be. I was say to check the proporties for the Floppy disk. See what
file system the diskette is formatted for.
The new Dell Pc is XP sp3 and is formatted with NTFS.
That reminds me though....
A while back I was trying to write a large file (about 4 Gb) to a USB
stick and an error message was displayed that I was out of room.
I called the manufacturer and he had me change a setting somewhere
(which I did not note, of course).
Then, I could write the large file.
He said that my USB was set as FAT32 instead of NTFS.
I wonder if the issues are similiar.

 

[Tim Meddick]

I'm pretty sure this effect is undocumented, however...

Plenty of times a [floppy] disk, formatted on ANY other (Windows) system
(Win2K NT 3x 9x) *and*, even though they ALL format floppy disks as
Fat12, XP has problems on reading the disk.

Usually, returning that the disk file system is RAW or unformatted and
needs to be formatted.

Even though the disk is *still* readable in the other older machine.

Just another irritating "quirk" of the XP Operating System!

(P.S. - Use USB pen-drives instead - no such problems)

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[Jose]

It could be. I was say to check the proporties for the Floppy disk. See what

The new Dell Pc is XP sp3 and is formatted with NTFS.
That reminds me though....
A while back I was trying to write a large file (about 4 Gb) to a USB
stick and an error message was displayed that I was out of room.
I called the manufacturer and he had me change a setting somewhere
(which I did not note, of course).
Then, I could write the large file.
He said that my USB was set as FAT32 instead of NTFS.
I wonder if the issues are similiar.

A FAT32 file system on a HDD or a stick supposedly has a file size
limit of 2^32 - 1 = 4294967295 (1 byte less that 4GB).

A 3.5" floppy would of your description have a capacity of 1.44M.
They would most likely be FAT.

You can check the file system from My Computer, check the Properties
of the device.

XP can read either - it is the writing to it part where the limit
comes into play.

 

[Tim Slattery]

mmm Only thing I could think of is that the NT server is NTFS and your Dell
might be Fat32.

No, no. NT, Win2K, XP, Vista, all of the more recent Microsoft OSs can
use FAT12, FAT16, FAT32 and NTFS file systems. Any partition on those
OSs can use any of those file systems. There's no such thing as "NTFS
OS" or a "FAT32 OS".

As to what OPs problem is...I don't know. What exactly happens when
you try to use one of those floppies? Maybe there's a problem of some
kind with the floppy drive on the Dell.

 

[Patrick Keenan]

I have a relatively new (6 months old) Dell PC with a built-in 3.5"
diskette.

About 6 years ago someone created several 2HD diskettes on a PC.
These diskettes can be read on a NT server (about 10 years old) but
not my new Dell PC.

Is there a setting that I have to adjust on my Dell?

Thank you in advance.

XP dropped at least one of the floppy modes, and consequently can't read
some floppies made on older systems.

If you can read them on another system, create a folder structure on the
other system, and copy the floppy contents there. Then transfer those via
network, USB or other removable media, and move away from floppies.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309623

HTH
-pk

 

[Tim Slattery]

The new Dell Pc is XP sp3 and is formatted with NTFS.
That reminds me though....
A while back I was trying to write a large file (about 4 Gb) to a USB
stick and an error message was displayed that I was out of room.
I called the manufacturer and he had me change a setting somewhere
(which I did not note, of course).
Then, I could write the large file.
He said that my USB was set as FAT32 instead of NTFS.

Right. The FAT32 file system can't handle files larger than 4GB. (The
error message that's produced when you try to write an overlarge file
to a FAT file system is misleading, as you noted.) The limit for NTFS
is 2**44, larger than disks today.

I wonder if the issues are similiar.

No.

 

[Tim Slattery]

It could be. I was say to check the proporties for the Floppy disk. See what
file system the diskette is formatted for.

It will be FAT12, that's what floppies use.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Using FAT32, the largest filesize is limited to 4 GB (i.e., per file).

 

[allanc]

Some bad news and also what I am trying to accomplish.
All of the diskettes are/were write protected.
The first diskette that I could read in NT, that could not be read on
XP sp3, can now *not be read* on the NT computer!
I really do not understand this and am quite worried that I have
rendered certain diskettes useless(see below).

There are about 10 diskettes and one can be read in XP and it can
still can be read on the NT.
I don't want to try (in XP) whatever I have not tried as of yet for
obvious reasons.
I have also seen this effect before, over the years, where randomly it
seems, a XP PC cannot read a diskette for absolutely no obvious
reason.
This is also true for formatting a new diskette (maybe it was
preformatted at the factory).

What I am trying to do is create a CD for my client with a backup of
these diskettes which are license diskettes for some older software.

Forgetting about the backup for the moment, how do I restore the
usability of the diskettes?

I'm pretty sure this effect is undocumented, however...

Plenty of times a [floppy] disk, formatted on ANY other (Windows) system
(Win2K NT 3x 9x) *and*, even though they ALL format floppy disks as
Fat12,  XP has problems on reading the disk.

Usually, returning that the disk file system is RAW or unformatted and
needs to be formatted.

Even though the disk is *still* readable in the other older machine.

Just another irritating "quirk" of  the XP Operating System!

(P.S. - Use USB pen-drives instead - no such problems)

==

Cheers,    Tim Meddick,    Peckham, London.    

I have a relatively new (6 months old) Dell PC with a built-in 3.5"
diskette.

About 6 years ago someone created several 2HD diskettes on a PC.
These diskettes can be read on a NT server (about 10 years old) but
not my new Dell PC.

Is there a setting that I have to adjust on my Dell?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Tim Meddick]

Try downloading and running the 'undelete' program called "Restoration"

Download "Restoration" from:
http://www3.telus.net/mikebike/Restoration.zip

Then press the 'Search deleted files' button having selected "3.5"
Floppy" in the "Drives" box.

Copy [restore] the files over to the hard-drive.

*Or - go to a much older PC (with a matching much older OS like Win 3x
or 9x) and try reading your floppies that have not been tried
[corrupted] in an XP machine.

Then, copy them over onto a USB drive.

BTW - Disks formatted on an XP machine work in an older machine AND
still work in the XP machine.
It's only disks formatted on an older machine that seem to be affected.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.




Some bad news and also what I am trying to accomplish.
All of the diskettes are/were write protected.
The first diskette that I could read in NT, that could not be read on
XP sp3, can now *not be read* on the NT computer!
I really do not understand this and am quite worried that I have
rendered certain diskettes useless(see below).

There are about 10 diskettes and one can be read in XP and it can
still can be read on the NT.
I don't want to try (in XP) whatever I have not tried as of yet for
obvious reasons.
I have also seen this effect before, over the years, where randomly it
seems, a XP PC cannot read a diskette for absolutely no obvious
reason.
This is also true for formatting a new diskette (maybe it was
preformatted at the factory).

What I am trying to do is create a CD for my client with a backup of
these diskettes which are license diskettes for some older software.

Forgetting about the backup for the moment, how do I restore the
usability of the diskettes?

I'm pretty sure this effect is undocumented, however...

Plenty of times a [floppy] disk, formatted on ANY other (Windows)
system
(Win2K NT 3x 9x) *and*, even though they ALL format floppy disks as
Fat12, XP has problems on reading the disk.

Usually, returning that the disk file system is RAW or unformatted and
needs to be formatted.

Even though the disk is *still* readable in the other older machine.

Just another irritating "quirk" of the XP Operating System!

(P.S. - Use USB pen-drives instead - no such problems)

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

I have a relatively new (6 months old) Dell PC with a built-in 3.5"
diskette.

About 6 years ago someone created several 2HD diskettes on a PC.
These diskettes can be read on a NT server (about 10 years old) but
not my new Dell PC.

Is there a setting that I have to adjust on my Dell?

Thank you in advance.

 

[allanc]

Are you saying that even with the write protect *on* files can be
deleted from a diskette?

Try downloading and running the 'undelete' program called "Restoration"

Download "Restoration" from:http://www3.telus.net/mikebike/Restoration.zip

Then press the 'Search deleted files' button having selected "3.5"
Floppy" in the "Drives" box.

Copy [restore] the files over to the hard-drive.

*Or - go to a much older PC (with a matching much older OS like Win 3x
or 9x) and try reading your floppies that have not been tried
[corrupted] in an XP machine.

Then, copy them over onto a USB drive.

BTW - Disks formatted on an XP machine work in an older machine AND
still work in the XP machine.
It's only disks formatted on an older machine that seem to be affected.

==

Cheers,    Tim Meddick,    Peckham, London.    


Some bad news and also what I am trying to accomplish.
All of the diskettes are/were write protected.
The first diskette that I could read in NT, that could not be read on
XP sp3, can now *not be read* on the NT computer!
I really do not understand this and am quite worried that I have
rendered certain diskettes useless(see below).

There are about 10 diskettes and one can be read in XP and it can
still can be read on the NT.
I don't want to try (in XP) whatever I have not tried as of yet for
obvious reasons.
I have also seen this effect before, over the years, where randomly it
seems, a XP PC cannot read a diskette for absolutely no obvious
reason.
This is also true for formatting a new diskette (maybe it was
preformatted at the factory).

What I am trying to do is create a CD for my client with a backup of
these diskettes which are license diskettes for some older software.

Forgetting about the backup for the moment, how do I restore the
usability of the diskettes?

I'm pretty sure this effect is undocumented, however...

Plenty of times a [floppy] disk, formatted on ANY other (Windows)
system
(Win2K NT 3x 9x) *and*, even though they ALL format floppy disks as
Fat12, XP has problems on reading the disk.

Usually, returning that the disk file system is RAW or unformatted and
needs to be formatted.

Even though the disk is *still* readable in the other older machine.

Just another irritating "quirk" of the XP Operating System!

(P.S. - Use USB pen-drives instead - no such problems)

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[Patrick Keenan]

The new Dell Pc is XP sp3 and is formatted with NTFS.
That reminds me though....
A while back I was trying to write a large file (about 4 Gb) to a USB
stick and an error message was displayed that I was out of room.
I called the manufacturer and he had me change a setting somewhere
(which I did not note, of course).
Then, I could write the large file.
He said that my USB was set as FAT32 instead of NTFS.
I wonder if the issues are similiar.
==================

No, they are not similar. The FAT32 limitation is completely separate from
XP's dropping of some modes of floppy use.



HTH
-pk

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

mmm Only thing I could think of is that the NT server is NTFS and your Dell
might be Fat32.

That would be completely irrelevant. The diskettes would be FAT12,
regardless of what file system the hard drive used.

Alan, read this article, which describes the media descriptor byte
issue, which is probably what your problem is:
http://support.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?kbid=140060

 

[Bill in Co.]

Some bad news and also what I am trying to accomplish.
All of the diskettes are/were write protected.
The first diskette that I could read in NT, that could not be read on
XP sp3, can now *not be read* on the NT computer!
I really do not understand this and am quite worried that I have
rendered certain diskettes useless(see below).

There are about 10 diskettes and one can be read in XP and it can
still can be read on the NT.
I don't want to try (in XP) whatever I have not tried as of yet for
obvious reasons.
I have also seen this effect before, over the years, where randomly it
seems, a XP PC cannot read a diskette for absolutely no obvious
reason.

I don't think this probem has to do with the operating system. I think it
has to do with the status of your drive. Obviously different computers
have different floppy drives (regardless of the operating system)

This is also true for formatting a new diskette (maybe it was
preformatted at the factory).

What I am trying to do is create a CD for my client with a backup of
these diskettes which are license diskettes for some older software.

Forgetting about the backup for the moment, how do I restore the
usability of the diskettes?

I'm pretty sure this effect is undocumented, however...

Plenty of times a [floppy] disk, formatted on ANY other (Windows) system
(Win2K NT 3x 9x) *and*, even though they ALL format floppy disks as
Fat12, XP has problems on reading the disk.

Usually, returning that the disk file system is RAW or unformatted and
needs to be formatted.

Even though the disk is *still* readable in the other older machine.

Just another irritating "quirk" of the XP Operating System!

(P.S. - Use USB pen-drives instead - no such problems)

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

I have a relatively new (6 months old) Dell PC with a built-in 3.5"
diskette.

About 6 years ago someone created several 2HD diskettes on a PC.
These diskettes can be read on a NT server (about 10 years old) but
not my new Dell PC.

Is there a setting that I have to adjust on my Dell?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Don Phillipson]

I have also seen this effect before, over the years, where randomly it
seems, a XP PC cannot read a diskette for absolutely no obvious reason.

Well, we expect that in time all magnetic-medium disks will fail,
and exerience suggests that, out of any 10 floppies, within a
decade at least one will fail. This is not a secure medium like
the optical disk (CD) and even some CDs can go ureadable.

Are you saying that even with the write protect *on* files can be
deleted from a diskette?

Only a disk editor can tell (viz. software that can look in the
File Allocation Table for eILENAM.EXT and change it back
to FILENAM.EXT. But without a disk editor we cannot tell
whether an unreadable file has been DELeted or is unreadable
because the magnetic medium has failed.

What I am trying to do is create a CD for my client with a backup of
these diskettes which are license diskettes for some older software.

If this is your requirement, try DISKCOPY or similar software, that
will clone the each disk (including boot sectors) into its own folder
on the CD.

Forgetting about the backup for the moment, how do I restore the
usability of the diskettes?

Rule 1 = do not alter the diskette you are attempting to repair.
Clone it with DISKCOPY and work on the duplicate. (Your
early attempts may make matters worse.)

 

[Bruce Chambers]

mmm Only thing I could think of is that the NT server is NTFS and your Dell
might be Fat32. I haven't seen a Fat32 PC in a while, but it might be
possible in your case. More details about the system would help. What
version of windows are you running?

Er... the file system on all 3.5" floppy diskettes is FAT12, so your
response makes absolutely no sense. WinXP can read FAT12 , FAT16,
FAT32, CDFS (the file system used on most CDs), and NTFS with equal
facility. Further, the file system on any one disk/partition or
diskette has absolutely no affect upon the operating system's ability to
read other compatible file systems on other disks/partitions.



--

Bruce Chambers

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[Bill in Co.]

Yup, that's happened a bit to me too. I'm not sure if it's due to the
floppies going bad (by just sitting on the shelf, no less!! (and without
much humidity here), or the possibility that the newer computers just have
poorer quality floppy drives built-in, than in the past (when floppies, and
floppy drives, were so prevalent).

I have boxes of floppies that are more often than not unreadable. I
assumed
it was age and humidity [Hawaii] and concluded that old floppies are
unreliable. If yours are 6 years old age might be a factor.

I have a relatively new (6 months old) Dell PC with a built-in 3.5"
diskette.

About 6 years ago someone created several 2HD diskettes on a PC.
These diskettes can be read on a NT server (about 10 years old) but
not my new Dell PC.

Is there a setting that I have to adjust on my Dell?

Thank you in advance.