At a loss

[cirianz]

I wasn't sure if I should post in here, or in general, or even at all.
But I'm really at my wits end.

My 13 yo daughter is being targeted by an internet predator (no, not a paedophile, or not as far as I know)

I didn't know for sure until today that this woman (who is in her twenties) wasn't possibly genuine, although it has been my opinion for several months that she is just playing my daughter for attention.

One thing I will allow, she doesn't know how old my daughter is, otherwise I'd be on a F*ckn plane right now, but she does know that my daughter is young.
She has been playing my daughter for nearly 8 months now, IMing her whenever she feels depressed & going all suicidal on her. She has my daughter so wrapped around her finger that she has been in tears a number of times, terrified that her 'friend' Atria will kill herself & it'll all be her fault because she didn't say the right thing or wasn't there when Atria needed her etc etc.

I have told her that I think this woman is playing her for sympathy & attention.
I have told her that this woman is an adult & responsible for her own actions & choices.
I have tried to be supportive, to help her (my daughter) out when she didn't know what to say & was frightened.
I have tried everything I could think of, but I couldn't definitely say that this woman wasn't genuine (altho, even so, I did say that even if she was genuine she was not acting with integrity by dumping it on someone so young)

Today, however, when having one of my less patient conversations with my daughter on the subject, she told me that one of the things Atria had had to endure (she is still buying whatever this woman says regardless of what I say) was that she was the youngest woman in the world to have had uterine cancer having had it at age 16. She (apparently) had had to have chemotherapy & radiation therapy & a hysterectomy but had survived & was still able to have children.
Anyone here can see that this is rubish from start to finish.
My daughter didn't know what a hysterectomy was & so missed the obvious, that it's rather hard to have children without a uterus. But the fact that this woman would even consider that 16yo would be the youngest in the world for any form of cancer shows that she knows nothing about it.
I am probably over reacting a bit because my best friend from childhood did have uterine cancer, albeit when she was 19yo. She was lucky enough to survive it, but will never have children. Something that was very hard to come to terms with at 19 obviously. But she was very well aware of just how lucky she had been nevertheless.
But right now I am seeing this woman using other peoples pain, an abomination in itself, to twist & to hurt my daughter for her own gratification.

I got rather angry, I told my daughter some of the above facts & butted in on their MSN conversation, telling this woman exactly who I am & to stop f*cking with my daughters head.

None of this was the right thing to do. Now I'm the bad guy & my daughter is furiously defending her 'friend' whom she has been talking to most of this evening in order to save her from her evil mother, terrified that I'm somehow going to push this woman over the edge into suicide. This woman has convieniently re-worded some of her claims & has my daughter convinced that it is her own fault for 'misinterpreting' what Atria said.

& I seem to be looking at 3 choices.

Do nothing & hope that (with the occasional bit of nudging perhaps) my daughter will eventually figure this woman out for herself.

Ban all internet contact... something completely unenforceable without banning the internet altogether & it is an essential tool in homeschooling her & my son.

Or stalking my own daughter, something I see as completely reprehensible & was absolutely sickened by when I saw a friends mother do it to her daughter. To do so would be doing even more damage to my daughter than this woman is doing.
& frankly, even if I could put my own morality aside, my daughter is quite clever enough to cover her own tracks so that I would never even be able to tell that she was doing so anyway.

So that brings me back to option one.
And I feel helpless to protect my daughter.
And furious about what this woman is doing.
I suppose that is why I am here & not in general discussion.
A part of me is outraged, more than I can actually say.
How dare she.

 

[Anon_F]

What country is this women from?
Have you thought of contacting your local police station in NZ for advice?

 

[murdoch]

Find out what country this person is from as in the USA for an example this would be seen as a criminal offence. Contact the local Police and take any documents or evidence you have and ask the Police to investigate what is going on, your daughter is a minor so this women could be committing a criminal act.

If you do go to the Police they may want to carry on these internet meetings to trap the person.
Sadly scum like this do try to entice young persons on the net by using emotional feelings to start conversations with youngsters. It may well be the pesons way of dealing with things, but if it's upsetting your daughter as it is it must be stopped.

Hope this helps.
Murdoch.

 

[floppybootstomp]

I've had an old work colleague pestering me for the last 3 weeks, sounding really depressed and hinting at topping himself. He's already 'tried' once but of course survived. Cry for help my ass.

I've been mostly ignoring him, he's bloody well frightening me to tell you the truth, but I did say if he was gonna do it, do it good, go find a tall building.

I also told him that killing oneself is possibly one of the most selfish actions you can take.

He's still with us in the land of the living of course, I may visit him this Saturday, dunno.

Ciri, that woman is a nutter, tell her to stop messing about and go kill herself instead of messing up a young person's mind. Must admit it is a tricky one though as your daughter seems to have been hoodwinked by this loony. And she could be a he, you never know.

I think that's what I'd do anyway. Either that or get strict with my daughter. Dunno. Tricky

 

[ChristopherP]

Try and find out as much as you can about this person...

 

[itsme]

I think you have no choice but to, contact the police, it is without a doubt a matter of utter shameless ABUSE of a child’s mind, just as though she had been sexually assaulted.

It will eventually lead to permanently scaring of your daughter either physically or mentally.



Act now don’t wait.... just do it............. NOW

 

[crazylegs]

If it was me, and my daughter was having these sort of conversations, i would stop it immediatley ban her from using the internet until this was investigated, and call the police immediatley, they have teams of people now who deal with this sort of thing, internet abuse, peadophilea, and the like...
Not sure if New Zealand police have people to deal with this, but theres only one way to find out....

Do it Ciri...

 

[Rush]

Dont delay

This is very serious....You have no choice but to involve the Police ....Now

 

[murdoch]

cirianz you really need to stop this, i'm sure your local police will deal with this in a sensitive way because of your daughters age and the way this scum bag has woven themselves to you daughter.

we are here to support you through this in anyway that we can.

 

[phicksus]

That would be a tough call. Obviously the person is a nutter or she woulnd't be playing your daughter that way. You never know what someone like that really wants and what they might try to do. You have already told her to leave the kid alone if she doesn't I would for sure contact the police. Isn't good for your daughter to have to deal with a manipulative psycho. Is hard enough when an adult has to deal with one.

 

[muckshifter]

Sorry to hear this Ciri,

Sorry also to say you have as much chance of Prosecuting this person as I have of building my own rocket to Mars ... even if this person was a paedophile you'd only have a snowball in hell chance in getting any sort of Conviction to even be heard.

Contact the authorities anyway and make a formal complaint, get yourself on record. I very much doubt that you'll get any help as this is the wrong sort of "child abuse" the authorities can deal with. One approach may be through the "Child Welfare Laws" if you have such a thing in NZ

Your Daughter is in social isolation and has befriended this person, you are going to be Mrs Nasty no matter what you try.

Adult rules to protect children from adults written by adults ... may as well P1SS in the wind.

I'm not being very helpfully here am I .... the only thing I can think of is to try and fight back, but you is gonna need to keep your cool.

You Teach your children at home, well, get some factual material together that can easily prove this persons ranting absurd but, present it in a way that your daughter doesn't know that it a direct dig at this person. Hard to achieve and may even backfire. Solicit the help of a Female Doctor if you can.




PM me all you have on this Woman please ...

 

[floppybootstomp]

Yep, I'm pretty much with Mucks on this one, I think our posts took a similar view.

FWIW, my kids were let free on the Net since they were eight, they did encounter a few nutters but luckily they were quite bright and sent 'em all packing.

They've all turned out Ok and are, as far as I can tell, well balanced and doing well at College.

What Mucks says is true, whatever you do, your daughter is gonna be cheesed off with you. Well, tough, sometimes parents have to do that.

Think back, how many times were you annoyed with your parents because they wouldn't let you have your own way?

Well? Quite a few times, I'd wager.

I don't think the police could do much, though I may be wrong, I think you gotta deal with this yourself, unfortunately.

 

[cirianz]

my daughter has told me that this 'woman' lives in a small town in America, that the place is too small to have a hospital or a 'therapist' & therefore has no one else she can talk to. She apparently has "zero self esteem" & thinks no one would even miss her if she just 'disappeared'
So I told my daughter that, if that was the case then maybe she could try building up her self esteem & her awareness that she really would be missed by doing some things that would make a positive difference in her town. Volunteer to help with meals on wheels, or whatever local organisations they have to help with the sick, disabled or the elderly, whatever. Even in a small town, if you actually look, there are opportunities out there to help people who really need it & to learn that it's really up to her if her life makes a difference. I also said that, if all she does is dismiss it or find excuses about why she can't then she's not really interested in helping herself, just in feeling sorry for herself.
My daughter made the suggestion, her response, "I'll think about it"

My daughter came to me last night, before I went to bed & proposed that what she'll do is let me read & observe in progress any of their conversations at anytime I want without telling this woman that she is doing so (presumably once I see what she's 'really like' I'll be convinced) if I'll please just not jump in on the convos like I did last night.
Part of my dilemna is that my daughter has quite a significant reputation in the world of grapics art & has been building this for years. This is part of the way that this woman gained access to my daughter when the largest & most important of the forums she is on had to change servers & therefore to charge for it's membership. This woman offered to sponsor my daughter so long as she could start IM'ing her. My daughter now considers her to be her best friend whom she can tell anything to. I saw the initial email last night, she even made a joke in it about not being some 'weirdo'.
When the power cord on my daughter's laptop exploded on sunday this woman offered to buy her a new one, I refused.

But my daughter has worked very hard & very long (she started when she was 8yo) on building her skills & her reputation as a pixel artist. She admins on one forum & is getting 'work' (forum coinage) on a comission basis on another.
A couple of fridays ago she was spending the day with her father at his work (he teaches 3rd year computer science at the uni) & she was bored & worked through some first year varsity assignments, each designed to take a student 2 hours. She did each one in 20 mins.
She is wanting to do correspondence school next year, has been working towards this goal for a year & a half now, because she wants to pass the required number of papers at the required levels to give herself University entrance qualifications. She wants to go to university the following year. She is very highly motivated & takes her career quite seriously. This is what she wants to do & to be, & it is not just a passing whim.
This woman is highly respected in this field & could destroy her in a day if she felt like it.
It would, of course, be my fault.
& the damage I would do to her personally would at least equal what this woman is doing.
& it would hit her in exactly the same place this woman is playing with.
Her heart.
But such a betrayal from the person she is supposed to be able to trust absolutely...
It's not just that she would never trust me again,
I doubt she would ever be able to trust anyone again.

edit: sorry mucks & Flops, all that took me so long to write I missed both of your posts. Yes, I'm afraid that I have to agree about the police/authorities. As you said, it's the wrong type of abuse & this woman isn't even in the country.
My daughter is not socially isolated though, she has a wide number of friends at her dancing classes, swimming classes & sea scouts. Plus off course local kids. But this woman has still managed to sneak into her life.

 

[Rush]

Sensitive issue

Cirianz..if you had infinite powers what would you do to protect your child, and what measures would you take to protect others from suffering the same fate !!, or if you were asked for help what would your response be ?? this could enable others to learn .

 

[cirianz]

Infinite powers? I would be on a plane over to America right now.

But to stop this sort of thing happening again? To remove all abusers?

My own mother wasn't able to protect me.

To absolutely protect our children would be to lock them up in a room without a key...
& that is the worst kind of abuse of all.

I don't even know what to do myself.
I don't have any answers to give.
I'm sorry

 

[ChristopherP]

Have your daughter get a new IM address, and add everyone except this person.

If you could get the IP address of the woman, you could try and find out who owns the internet account, and confirm this person is who she says she is.

I dont know if its possible to gain EASY access to that informaton. i know you can easily get the IP address but dont know what happens after that.

If she is suicidal, i would guess she lives on her own, therefore is the account holder, therefore details should be linked to the IP perhaps?

 

[cirianz]

Thank you chris, unfortunately my daughter isn't willing to stop talking to this woman so a new IM wouldn't make much difference.

But trying to track this woman... I'm afraid I really wouldn't know how to go about it.
I can research medical information in great detail,
But when it comes to tracking a person I haven't got a clue. Hah.
I wouldn't even know how to get her IP address.

I would agree though, either if she is suicidal or simply fullfilling some need for attention & gratification in this way, then the chances are high that she lives alone. I would expect the same to be likely if s/he is some more serious predator also.

 

[cirianz]

I just wanted to say thak you, all of you.

I am feeling very lost
& afraid
with this one.

your advice, your support, every response has helped,

Thank you.

 

[ChristopherP]

Have your daughter to tell her to go to http://www.ipchicken.com/ and copy the block of numbers over and make up some silly story about how it will speed up the connections between them or something...

Then im sure someone here knows what to do after that - im sure you can trace it to a location easily enough over the net...

 

[cirianz]

My daughter ran a forum a while ago, it never really took off, but she is going to check & find out if Atria's IP address is still there.

Thanks chris.