Any tweaks to speed up games under XP?

C

Chris H.

Okay, now I'm hoping I'm not seeing a pattern here: "installed under XP and
shortcuts created under 98SE"? You're not dual-booting on the same
partition are you? If you're using the same folder on a common partition
for program installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE attempting
to use the same files - don't. Just that simple.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

pjp said:
Yea, I agree worth trying but not hopefull as it's apparent also in Links
2003 and Flight Sim 2004 (but not as much, slower game) which were
installed
under XP and shortcuts created under 98SE.

Anthony Procissi said:
Preaching to the choir... :)

Barebones services allocate half as much memory (maybe more), knock the base
CPU usage down a few percent, and cut running processes down at least a
third... less processes, less threads, less time the CPU has to spend on
context switching / paging... it must help to some degree; especially if
you're on hardware close to the minimum system requirements... but as you
say, the gain is likely to be negligible and the headache might cost you far
more than a hardware upgrade would.

On the original topic... I'm not sure how Need For Speed actually
installs
itself, but... maybe reinstalling it on XP and seeing how it performs might
be worth a shot. The whole "install on 9x, copy a shortcut to XP and launch"
seems a little sketchy to me...

--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Chris H. said:
LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how much does
one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask question after
question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like when
someone suddenly screams for help because can't install anything? They
turned off Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended" and have
forgotten or don't remember to turn it back on.

To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?), rights to
saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How does
one
really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that "| |"
much in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where it is
the speed of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform
certain
functions?

And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all
knowing
Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the "Disable
All" button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential Services"
enabled.

You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.

Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not
recommend
trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button caused
Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.

Thanks,

--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
Hi pjp,

I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of tweaking.
You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some more...

USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've used
as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is that
a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp


I use these methods only for special games such as grudge matches.

A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
Control Panel / System
Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds

B: Disable Services for Gaming.
Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
For each service listed below do the following:
Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1

List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer Browser
Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when installing SP1 or
DX9)
Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support / Messenger
Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as... will not
function)
System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services / Themes
Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services only
appear if
you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT Service "
"
Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) / Windows
Time.

* You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday with
the
above
services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable
*WHILE*
you're in
a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the original
Profile 1 again.

C: Disable Page File
Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to page
to
the HD.
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings /
Advanced Tab
Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No
Paging
file and
click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will not
accept your change.

* Once you're finished your games turn back on the System Managed page
file!

D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm, etc.) by
disabling
Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the method in
step A to
see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you should
disable, i.e. Zone
Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the
Gaming
Profile.

E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600, and
lowering the
visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24 to 52 FPS!
:)
This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks provided.
Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound settings
that will
help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling near you.
Music and
the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are expensive
ear
candy.

F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual Effects
Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back after
your games).

G: Disable Startup Programs
Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable all button.
You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll have 5
seconds to pick
Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.

WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
*Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to disable ALL
services
for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
startu p
again!!!

Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own system.
I
hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly help you pwn
your opps!

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call /
Contact
MS Support at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
rights.
_________________________________________________________

| Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is
necessary in
| Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when turned off
will
| actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a purpose,
and
| that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a couple
web
| sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to
"speed
up" XP
| for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like turning off
| Cryptographic Services.
| --
| Chris H.
| Microsoft Windows MVP
| Associate Expert
| Expert Zone -
|
| | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update site
applied.
| > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up and going.
| > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No Problem ..."
all
| > around.
| >
| > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| >
| > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| >
| > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| >
| > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| >
| > Logitech mouse
| > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| >
| > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's in-house
(TCP/IP and
| > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| >
| > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB devices.
Does
| > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no attached
device
| > shows any kind of problem in use..
| >
| > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP drivers for it
all
| > (I
| > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up and
running with
| > printers and folders being shared as expected from both sides. I
even
| > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy server on
one
| > of
| > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in frustration
at
| > it's
| > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even though it's
| > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that set it
up
(Users
| > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is, I
can't
get the
| > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears to be only
XP's
| > built-in support for the card.
| >
| > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference for games
is,
| > use
| > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's priority, e.g.
"cmd
| > /c
| > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd expect).
| >
| > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as Performance under
| > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually (but
randomly in
| > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these
various
| > services
| > do but when you try to research them it seems like the answer
becomes a
| > circular reference and it's never really explained. In
particular,
it's
| > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding the
ethernet.
| > There
| > seems to be a number of various services that might be doing some
type of
| > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
documented I
| > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to basically
| > mucking
| > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web using a
Proxy
| > server
| > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything to do with
the
| > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of blindly
changing
| > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
"un-changing"
| > it
| > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
inadvertant
| > consequences).
| >
| > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service REALLY does,
what
| > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in order to
function
| > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help for
"them" and
| > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to lead
no-where
| > usefull.
| >
| > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance monitoring
service,
| > indexing and the like.
| >
| > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| >
| > | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need to know
your
| >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need are
cpu -
| >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If you have
any
| >> problems finding this out then here
| > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware requirements
are
| > much
| >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much ram,
say
128mbs,
| > XP
| >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
performance. I
| >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you Jimmy :)
| >> Chris C
| >> Chris
| >> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| >> >
| >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just created new
| > shortcut
| >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running so
slow
(slow
| >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it acceptably at
| >> 1024x768.
| >> > All other settings the same including under Properties DirectX
| >> > settings.
| >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
exaggerated,
| >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type games.
| >> >
| >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for the
Radeon, e.g.
| >> Cat
| >> > 4.3.
| >> >
| >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background so
wondering if
| >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually does as
MS's
| > help
| >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in most
cases.
| >> >
| >> >
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
P

pjp

"If you're using the same folder on a common partition for program
installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE attempting to use the
same files - don't. Just that simple."

I think you're wrong in considering this so much a no-no. Please elaborate
specific problem as it's my understanding (from 20 years programming
experience) unless there's OS feature specific files involved, the whole
point of the Windows API is so that one can write software that'll run
unchanged under any of MS's 32 bit OS's.

Basically assuming the game doesn't actually "demand" existing registry
entries before it'll run and assuming it doesn't install dll's etc. anywhere
but it's own installed folder, what's the problem? I'm not aware of anything
amiss with this as it's all still code for the Windows 32 bit API and DX
calls etc. are all the same across OS's.

Obviously anything that makes use of features only found under XP etc. will
have problems but games (thankfully) still state "For 98...XP" and I've yet
to see one has different installed files depending on OS.

Windows 98SE on C:
Windows XP Pro on D:

I install all games into a folder named " D:\More Games\'gamedir' " (largest
hd in system) regardless of OS in use at time.

Seems at least three games I've tried don't care about actual OS once
they've been installed into a folder. I'm also sure many more also would
have no problems, Quake and most of it's variants using that grahics engine
for example assuming OpenGl's working properly. You'll also find many
programs also will have no problems, e.g. Paint Shop Pro 7 doesn't as again
the developers wrote their code properly without having OS version specific
anything in it and without installing anything outside it's own folder.

Of course products like Office have to use two separate installs. MS places
so much crap outside of the install folder and usually alter enough registry
entries that it can't be helped.

Current testing is from ...

NFS:U was already installed under 98SE, under XP just created a shortcut and
it runs with no complaints.
FS 2004 was already installed under 98SE, same as NFS:U, e.g. runs under XP
with no problems and no complaints
Links 2003 installed under XP, under 98SE just created shortcut and it runs
with no complaints.

But all of them have had the "testing reversed", e.g. reversed OS installed
under and the results (XP slower) is the same.

Only thing that "happened" is when first run under the "other" OS, both
Links and FS do the Licensing/Agree dialog. All three basically duplicated
the registry entries found under the other OS after their first run (I
checked).

All three examples above run noticably faster and hence appear smoother
under 98SE even at one notch of resolution higher.

The only "problem" is where the game "Saves" can vary between OS's. I can
live with it.


Chris H. said:
Okay, now I'm hoping I'm not seeing a pattern here: "installed under XP and
shortcuts created under 98SE"? You're not dual-booting on the same
partition are you? If you're using the same folder on a common partition
for program installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE attempting
to use the same files - don't. Just that simple.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

pjp said:
Yea, I agree worth trying but not hopefull as it's apparent also in Links
2003 and Flight Sim 2004 (but not as much, slower game) which were
installed
under XP and shortcuts created under 98SE.

Preaching to the choir... :)

Barebones services allocate half as much memory (maybe more), knock the base
CPU usage down a few percent, and cut running processes down at least a
third... less processes, less threads, less time the CPU has to spend on
context switching / paging... it must help to some degree; especially if
you're on hardware close to the minimum system requirements... but as you
say, the gain is likely to be negligible and the headache might cost
Click to expand...
you
far
more than a hardware upgrade would.

On the original topic... I'm not sure how Need For Speed actually
installs
itself, but... maybe reinstalling it on XP and seeing how it performs might
be worth a shot. The whole "install on 9x, copy a shortcut to XP and launch"
seems a little sketchy to me...

--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how much does
one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask question after
question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like when
someone suddenly screams for help because can't install anything? They
turned off Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended" and have
forgotten or don't remember to turn it back on.

To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?),
Click to expand...
rights
to
saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How does
one
really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that "| |"
much in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where it is
the speed of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform
certain
functions?

And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all
knowing
Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the "Disable
All" button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential Services"
enabled.

You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.

Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not
recommend
trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button caused
Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.

Thanks,

--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
Hi pjp,

I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of tweaking.
You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some more...

USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've used
as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is that
a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:
Click to expand...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp
I use these methods only for special games such as grudge matches.

A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
Control Panel / System
Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds

B: Disable Services for Gaming.
Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
For each service listed below do the following:
Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1

List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer Browser
Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when installing
Click to expand...
SP1
or
DX9)
Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support / Messenger
Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as... will not
function)
System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services / Themes
Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services only
appear if
you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT Service "
"
Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) / Windows
Time.

* You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday with
the
above
services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable
*WHILE*
you're in
a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the original
Profile 1 again.

C: Disable Page File
Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to page
to
the HD.
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings /
Advanced Tab
Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No
Paging
file and
click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will not
accept your change.

* Once you're finished your games turn back on the System Managed page
file!

D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm,
Click to expand...
etc.)
by
disabling
Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the
Click to expand...
method
in
step A to
see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you should
disable, i.e. Zone
Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the
Gaming
Profile.

E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600, and
lowering the
visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24 to 52 FPS!
:)
This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks provided.
Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound settings
that will
help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling near you.
Music and
the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are expensive
ear
candy.

F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual Effects
Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back after
your games).

G: Disable Startup Programs
Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable all button.
You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll have 5
seconds to pick
Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.

WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
*Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to disable ALL
services
for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
startu p
again!!!

Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own system.
I
hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly help
Click to expand...
you
pwn
your opps!

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call /
Contact
MS Support at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
rights.
_________________________________________________________

| Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is
necessary in
| Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when
Click to expand...
turned
off
will
| actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a purpose,
and
| that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a couple
web
| sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to
"speed
up" XP
| for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like turning off
| Cryptographic Services.
| --
| Chris H.
| Microsoft Windows MVP
| Associate Expert
| Expert Zone -
|
| | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update site
applied.
| > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up and going.
| > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No Problem ...."
all
| > around.
| >
| > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| >
| > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| >
| > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| >
| > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| >
| > Logitech mouse
| > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| >
| > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's in-house
(TCP/IP and
| > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| >
| > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB devices.
Does
| > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no attached
device
| > shows any kind of problem in use..
| >
| > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP drivers
Click to expand...
for
it
all
| > (I
| > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up and
running with
| > printers and folders being shared as expected from both sides. I
even
| > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy
Click to expand...
server
on
one
| > of
| > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in frustration
at
| > it's
| > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even though it's
| > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that set it
up
(Users
| > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is, I
can't
get the
| > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears to be only
XP's
| > built-in support for the card.
| >
| > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference for games
is,
| > use
| > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's priority, e.g.
"cmd
| > /c
| > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd expect).
| >
| > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as Performance under
| > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually (but
randomly in
| > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these
various
| > services
| > do but when you try to research them it seems like the answer
becomes a
| > circular reference and it's never really explained. In
particular,
it's
| > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding the
ethernet.
| > There
| > seems to be a number of various services that might be doing some
type of
| > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
documented I
| > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to basically
| > mucking
| > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web using a
Proxy
| > server
| > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything to do with
the
| > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of blindly
changing
| > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
"un-changing"
| > it
| > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
inadvertant
| > consequences).
| >
| > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service REALLY does,
what
| > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in order to
function
| > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help for
"them" and
| > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to lead
no-where
| > usefull.
| >
| > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance monitoring
service,
| > indexing and the like.
| >
| > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| >
| > | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need to know
your
| >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need are
cpu -
| >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If you have
any
| >> problems finding this out then here
| > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware requirements
are
| > much
| >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much ram,
say
128mbs,
| > XP
| >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
performance. I
| >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you
Click to expand...
Jimmy
:)
| >> Chris C
| >> Chris
| >> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| >> >
| >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just
Click to expand...
created
new
| > shortcut
| >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running so
slow
(slow
| >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it
Click to expand...
acceptably
at
| >> 1024x768.
| >> > All other settings the same including under Properties DirectX
| >> > settings.
| >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
exaggerated,
| >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type games.
| >> >
| >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for the
Radeon, e.g.
| >> Cat
| >> > 4.3.
| >> >
| >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background so
wondering if
| >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually
Click to expand...
does
as
MS's
| > help
| >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in most
cases.
| >> >
| >> >
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
P

pjp

Under 98SE I can play Halo at 800x600 with lots of eye candy. I'm as sure as
I can be without testing that under XP I'd have to lower that to 640x480 and
probably have to back off on the eye candy also.

I didn't like the game enough that it's high on my list of re-installs and
testing, I like Unreal II more :).
 
J

Jimmy S.

I've seen that happen with some games where the game creates
a .ini for it's input and output devices. One game that comes to
mind is CFS which requires you to run a config utility whenever
you make changes such as upgrading your video card / driver.

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com


Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call / Contact
MS Support at: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
_________________________________________________________

| "If you're using the same folder on a common partition for program
| installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE attempting to use the
| same files - don't. Just that simple."
|
| I think you're wrong in considering this so much a no-no. Please elaborate
| specific problem as it's my understanding (from 20 years programming
| experience) unless there's OS feature specific files involved, the whole
| point of the Windows API is so that one can write software that'll run
| unchanged under any of MS's 32 bit OS's.
|
| Basically assuming the game doesn't actually "demand" existing registry
| entries before it'll run and assuming it doesn't install dll's etc. anywhere
| but it's own installed folder, what's the problem? I'm not aware of anything
| amiss with this as it's all still code for the Windows 32 bit API and DX
| calls etc. are all the same across OS's.
|
| Obviously anything that makes use of features only found under XP etc. will
| have problems but games (thankfully) still state "For 98...XP" and I've yet
| to see one has different installed files depending on OS.
|
| Windows 98SE on C:
| Windows XP Pro on D:
|
| I install all games into a folder named " D:\More Games\'gamedir' " (largest
| hd in system) regardless of OS in use at time.
|
| Seems at least three games I've tried don't care about actual OS once
| they've been installed into a folder. I'm also sure many more also would
| have no problems, Quake and most of it's variants using that grahics engine
| for example assuming OpenGl's working properly. You'll also find many
| programs also will have no problems, e.g. Paint Shop Pro 7 doesn't as again
| the developers wrote their code properly without having OS version specific
| anything in it and without installing anything outside it's own folder.
|
| Of course products like Office have to use two separate installs. MS places
| so much crap outside of the install folder and usually alter enough registry
| entries that it can't be helped.
|
| Current testing is from ...
|
| NFS:U was already installed under 98SE, under XP just created a shortcut and
| it runs with no complaints.
| FS 2004 was already installed under 98SE, same as NFS:U, e.g. runs under XP
| with no problems and no complaints
| Links 2003 installed under XP, under 98SE just created shortcut and it runs
| with no complaints.
|
| But all of them have had the "testing reversed", e.g. reversed OS installed
| under and the results (XP slower) is the same.
|
| Only thing that "happened" is when first run under the "other" OS, both
| Links and FS do the Licensing/Agree dialog. All three basically duplicated
| the registry entries found under the other OS after their first run (I
| checked).
|
| All three examples above run noticably faster and hence appear smoother
| under 98SE even at one notch of resolution higher.
|
| The only "problem" is where the game "Saves" can vary between OS's. I can
| live with it.
|
|
| | > Okay, now I'm hoping I'm not seeing a pattern here: "installed under XP
| and
| > shortcuts created under 98SE"? You're not dual-booting on the same
| > partition are you? If you're using the same folder on a common partition
| > for program installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE
| attempting
| > to use the same files - don't. Just that simple.
| > --
| > Chris H.
| > Microsoft Windows MVP
| > Associate Expert
| > Expert Zone -
| >
| > | > > Yea, I agree worth trying but not hopefull as it's apparent also in
| Links
| > > 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 (but not as much, slower game) which were
| > > installed
| > > under XP and shortcuts created under 98SE.
| > >
| message
| > > | > >> Preaching to the choir... :)
| > >>
| > >> Barebones services allocate half as much memory (maybe more), knock the
| > > base
| > >> CPU usage down a few percent, and cut running processes down at least a
| > >> third... less processes, less threads, less time the CPU has to spend
| on
| > >> context switching / paging... it must help to some degree; especially
| if
| > >> you're on hardware close to the minimum system requirements... but as
| you
| > >> say, the gain is likely to be negligible and the headache might cost
| you
| > > far
| > >> more than a hardware upgrade would.
| > >>
| > >> On the original topic... I'm not sure how Need For Speed actually
| > >> installs
| > >> itself, but... maybe reinstalling it on XP and seeing how it performs
| > > might
| > >> be worth a shot. The whole "install on 9x, copy a shortcut to XP and
| > > launch"
| > >> seems a little sketchy to me...
| > >>
| > >> --
| > >> -Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
| > >> US-Application Experience & Compatibility
| > >>
| > >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
| > > rights.
| > >> | > >> > LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how much
| > > does
| > >> > one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask question
| > > after
| > >> > question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like when
| > >> > someone suddenly screams for help because can't install anything?
| They
| > >> > turned off Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended" and
| have
| > >> > forgotten or don't remember to turn it back on.
| > >> >
| > >> > To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?),
| rights
| > > to
| > >> > saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How does
| > >> > one
| > >> > really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that "|
||"
| > >> > much in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where it
| is
| > >> > the speed of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform
| > >> > certain
| > >> > functions?
| > >> >
| > >> > And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
| > >> > --
| > >> > Chris H.
| > >> > Microsoft Windows MVP
| > >> > Associate Expert
| > >> > Expert Zone -
| > >> >
| > > message
| > >> > | > >> >>I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all
| > >> >>knowing
| > >> >>Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the
| "Disable
| > >> >>All" button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential Services"
| > >> >>enabled.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not
| > >> >> recommend
| > >> >> trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button
| caused
| > >> >> Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> Thanks,
| > >> >>
| > >> >> --
| > >> >> -Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
| > >> >> US-Application Experience & Compatibility
| > >> >>
| > >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
| > >> >> rights.
| > >> >> "Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
| > >> >> | > >> >>> Hi pjp,
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of
| > > tweaking.
| > >> >>> You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some
| > > more...
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
| > >> >>> clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've used
| > >> >>> as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is that
| > >> >>> a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:
| > >> >>>
| > >
| http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> I use these methods only for special games such as grudge matches.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
| > >> >>> Control Panel / System
| > >> >>> Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
| > >> >>> Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
| > >> >>> Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
| > >> >>> Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> B: Disable Services for Gaming.
| > >> >>> Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
| > >> >>> For each service listed below do the following:
| > >> >>> Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
| > >> >>> Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
| > >> >>> Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer Browser
| > >> >>> Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when installing
| SP1
| > > or
| > >> >>> DX9)
| > >> >>> Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support / Messenger
| > >> >>> Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as... will
| not
| > >> >>> function)
| > >> >>> System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services /
| Themes
| > >> >>> Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services only
| > >> >>> appear if
| > >> >>> you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT Service
| "
| > >> >>> "
| > >> >>> Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) /
| > > Windows
| > >> >>> Time.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> * You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday with
| > >> >>> the
| > >> >>> above
| > >> >>> services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable
| > >> >>> *WHILE*
| > >> >>> you're in
| > >> >>> a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the original
| > >> >>> Profile 1 again.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> C: Disable Page File
| > >> >>> Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to page
| > >> >>> to
| > >> >>> the HD.
| > >> >>> Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings /
| > >> >>> Advanced Tab
| > >> >>> Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No
| > >> >>> Paging
| > >> >>> file and
| > >> >>> click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will not
| > >> >>> accept your change.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> * Once you're finished your games turn back on the System Managed
| > > page
| > >> >>> file!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
| > >> >>> We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm,
| etc.)
| > > by
| > >> >>> disabling
| > >> >>> Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the
| method
| > > in
| > >> >>> step A to
| > >> >>> see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you should
| > >> >>> disable, i.e. Zone
| > >> >>> Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the
| > >> >>> Gaming
| > >> >>> Profile.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
| > >> >>> I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600, and
| > >> >>> lowering the
| > >> >>> visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24 to 52
| > > FPS!
| > >> >>> :)
| > >> >>> This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks provided.
| > >> >>> Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound
| settings
| > >> >>> that will
| > >> >>> help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling near
| you.
| > >> >>> Music and
| > >> >>> the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are expensive
| > >> >>> ear
| > >> >>> candy.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
| > >> >>> Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual Effects
| > >> >>> Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back
| after
| > >> >>> your games).
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> G: Disable Startup Programs
| > >> >>> Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable all
| > > button.
| > >> >>> You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll have 5
| > >> >>> seconds to pick
| > >> >>> Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
| > >> >>> *Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to disable
| > > ALL
| > >> >>> services
| > >> >>> for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
| > >> >>> startu
| > > p
| > >> >>> again!!!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own
| > > system.
| > >> >>> I
| > >> >>> hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly help
| you
| > > pwn
| > >> >>> your opps!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> --
| > >> >>> Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
| > >> >>> Jimmy S.
| > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> Game FAQs:
| http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
| > >> >>> Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call
| /
| > >> >>> Contact
| > >> >>> MS Support at:
| > >> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
| > >> >>> My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
| > >> >>> rights.
| > >> >>> _________________________________________________________
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> | > >> >>> | Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is
| > >> >>> necessary in
| > >> >>> | Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when
| turned
| > > off
| > >> >>> will
| > >> >>> | actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a
| > > purpose,
| > >> >>> and
| > >> >>> | that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a
| couple
| > >> >>> web
| > >> >>> | sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to
| > >> >>> "speed
| > >> >>> up" XP
| > >> >>> | for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like turning
| off
| > >> >>> | Cryptographic Services.
| > >> >>> | --
| > >> >>> | Chris H.
| > >> >>> | Microsoft Windows MVP
| > >> >>> | Associate Expert
| > >> >>> | Expert Zone -
| > >> >>> |
| > >> >>> | | > >> >>> | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update site
| > >> >>> applied.
| > >> >>> | > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up and
| > > going.
| > >> >>> | > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No Problem
| ..."
| > >> >>> all
| > >> >>> | > around.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > >> >>> | > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > >> >>> | > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > >> >>> | > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > >> >>> | > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > >> >>> | > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > >> >>> | > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > >> >>> | > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > >> >>> | > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > >> >>> | > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Logitech mouse
| > >> >>> | > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's in-house
| > >> >>> (TCP/IP and
| > >> >>> | > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > >> >>> | > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB
| > > devices.
| > >> >>> Does
| > >> >>> | > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no
| attached
| > >> >>> device
| > >> >>> | > shows any kind of problem in use..
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP drivers
| for
| > > it
| > >> >>> all
| > >> >>> | > (I
| > >> >>> | > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up and
| > >> >>> running with
| > >> >>> | > printers and folders being shared as expected from both sides.
| I
| > >> >>> even
| > >> >>> | > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy
| server
| > > on
| > >> >>> one
| > >> >>> | > of
| > >> >>> | > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in
| > > frustration
| > >> >>> at
| > >> >>> | > it's
| > >> >>> | > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even though
| > > it's
| > >> >>> | > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that set it
| > >> >>> up
| > >> >>> (Users
| > >> >>> | > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is, I
| > >> >>> can't
| > >> >>> get the
| > >> >>> | > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears to be
| > > only
| > >> >>> XP's
| > >> >>> | > built-in support for the card.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference for
| > > games
| > >> >>> is,
| > >> >>> | > use
| > >> >>> | > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's priority,
| > > e.g.
| > >> >>> "cmd
| > >> >>> | > /c
| > >> >>> | > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd
| > > expect).
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as Performance
| > > under
| > >> >>> | > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually (but
| > >> >>> randomly in
| > >> >>> | > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these
| > >> >>> various
| > >> >>> | > services
| > >> >>> | > do but when you try to research them it seems like the answer
| > >> >>> becomes a
| > >> >>> | > circular reference and it's never really explained. In
| > >> >>> particular,
| > >> >>> it's
| > >> >>> | > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding the
| > >> >>> ethernet.
| > >> >>> | > There
| > >> >>> | > seems to be a number of various services that might be doing
| some
| > >> >>> type of
| > >> >>> | > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
| > >> >>> documented I
| > >> >>> | > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to
| > > basically
| > >> >>> | > mucking
| > >> >>> | > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web using a
| > >> >>> Proxy
| > >> >>> | > server
| > >> >>> | > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything to do
| > > with
| > >> >>> the
| > >> >>> | > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of blindly
| > >> >>> changing
| > >> >>> | > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
| > >> >>> "un-changing"
| > >> >>> | > it
| > >> >>> | > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
| > >> >>> inadvertant
| > >> >>> | > consequences).
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service REALLY
| > > does,
| > >> >>> what
| > >> >>> | > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in order
| to
| > >> >>> function
| > >> >>> | > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help for
| > >> >>> "them" and
| > >> >>> | > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to lead
| > >> >>> no-where
| > >> >>> | > usefull.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance monitoring
| > >> >>> service,
| > >> >>> | > indexing and the like.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > | > >> >>> | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need to
| know
| > >> >>> your
| > >> >>> | >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need are
| > >> >>> cpu -
| > >> >>> | >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If you
| > > have
| > >> >>> any
| > >> >>> | >> problems finding this out then here
| > >> >>> | > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| > >> >>> | >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware
| > > requirements
| > >> >>> are
| > >> >>> | > much
| > >> >>> | >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much ram,
| > >> >>> say
| > >> >>> 128mbs,
| > >> >>> | > XP
| > >> >>> | >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
| > >> >>> performance. I
| > >> >>> | >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you
| Jimmy
| > > :)
| > >> >>> | >> Chris C
| > >> >>> | >> Chris
| > >> >>> | >> | > >> >>> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just
| created
| > > new
| > >> >>> | > shortcut
| > >> >>> | >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running so
| > >> >>> slow
| > >> >>> (slow
| > >> >>> | >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it
| acceptably
| > > at
| > >> >>> | >> 1024x768.
| > >> >>> | >> > All other settings the same including under Properties
| DirectX
| > >> >>> | >> > settings.
| > >> >>> | >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
| > >> >>> exaggerated,
| > >> >>> | >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type games.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for the
| > >> >>> Radeon, e.g.
| > >> >>> | >> Cat
| > >> >>> | >> > 4.3.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background so
| > >> >>> wondering if
| > >> >>> | >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually
| does
| > > as
| > >> >>> MS's
| > >> >>> | > help
| > >> >>> | >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in most
| > >> >>> cases.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >>
| > >> >>> | >>
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> |
| > >> >>> |
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>
| > >> >>
| > >> >
| > >> >
| > >>
| > >>
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
 
C

Chris H.

Main points can be: (1) The XP and Win9x lines are different registry
structures, (2) both operating systems use different version of drivers for
graphics, controllers, etc., and it can botch up your game settings, (3)
You're messing with your game performance. :cool:

I run Halo on Windows XP at 1280x1024 and it is absolutely stunning. I
think you're cheating yourself and the performance of the games with your
method.
 
P

pjp

I still feel that's in fact what almost all software should do rather than
bloating the registry with entries no-one but itself ever use. Since DOS 3,
software has easily been able to determine it's "home" folder, it's always
passed to the program as command line parameter 0 by the OS, XP included.
Therefore for most programs, it'd be a much better choice if they simply
created any "ini" and/or "cfg" files etc. in this home folder. Anything else
can easily be handled including it in each users save files.

I'm sure we can all agree there's way to much stuff put in the registry that
just doesn't seem to have any "use". Geez, seems everything you install "has
to get their name in there" even if they don't create any sub-keys and/or
values.

Argh!!!

Jimmy S. said:
I've seen that happen with some games where the game creates
a .ini for it's input and output devices. One game that comes to
mind is CFS which requires you to run a config utility whenever
you make changes such as upgrading your video card / driver.

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com


Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call / Contact
MS Support at: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
_________________________________________________________

| "If you're using the same folder on a common partition for program
| installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE attempting to use the
| same files - don't. Just that simple."
|
| I think you're wrong in considering this so much a no-no. Please elaborate
| specific problem as it's my understanding (from 20 years programming
| experience) unless there's OS feature specific files involved, the whole
| point of the Windows API is so that one can write software that'll run
| unchanged under any of MS's 32 bit OS's.
|
| Basically assuming the game doesn't actually "demand" existing registry
| entries before it'll run and assuming it doesn't install dll's etc. anywhere
| but it's own installed folder, what's the problem? I'm not aware of anything
| amiss with this as it's all still code for the Windows 32 bit API and DX
| calls etc. are all the same across OS's.
|
| Obviously anything that makes use of features only found under XP etc. will
| have problems but games (thankfully) still state "For 98...XP" and I've yet
| to see one has different installed files depending on OS.
|
| Windows 98SE on C:
| Windows XP Pro on D:
|
| I install all games into a folder named " D:\More Games\'gamedir' " (largest
| hd in system) regardless of OS in use at time.
|
| Seems at least three games I've tried don't care about actual OS once
| they've been installed into a folder. I'm also sure many more also would
| have no problems, Quake and most of it's variants using that grahics engine
| for example assuming OpenGl's working properly. You'll also find many
| programs also will have no problems, e.g. Paint Shop Pro 7 doesn't as again
| the developers wrote their code properly without having OS version specific
| anything in it and without installing anything outside it's own folder.
|
| Of course products like Office have to use two separate installs. MS places
| so much crap outside of the install folder and usually alter enough registry
| entries that it can't be helped.
|
| Current testing is from ...
|
| NFS:U was already installed under 98SE, under XP just created a shortcut and
| it runs with no complaints.
| FS 2004 was already installed under 98SE, same as NFS:U, e.g. runs under XP
| with no problems and no complaints
| Links 2003 installed under XP, under 98SE just created shortcut and it runs
| with no complaints.
|
| But all of them have had the "testing reversed", e.g. reversed OS installed
| under and the results (XP slower) is the same.
|
| Only thing that "happened" is when first run under the "other" OS, both
| Links and FS do the Licensing/Agree dialog. All three basically duplicated
| the registry entries found under the other OS after their first run (I
| checked).
|
| All three examples above run noticably faster and hence appear smoother
| under 98SE even at one notch of resolution higher.
|
| The only "problem" is where the game "Saves" can vary between OS's. I can
| live with it.
|
|
| | > Okay, now I'm hoping I'm not seeing a pattern here: "installed under XP
| and
| > shortcuts created under 98SE"? You're not dual-booting on the same
| > partition are you? If you're using the same folder on a common partition
| > for program installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE
| attempting
| > to use the same files - don't. Just that simple.
| > --
| > Chris H.
| > Microsoft Windows MVP
| > Associate Expert
| > Expert Zone -
| >
| > | > > Yea, I agree worth trying but not hopefull as it's apparent also in
| Links
| > > 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 (but not as much, slower game) which were
| > > installed
| > > under XP and shortcuts created under 98SE.
| > >
| message
| > > | > >> Preaching to the choir... :)
| > >>
| > >> Barebones services allocate half as much memory (maybe more), knock the
| > > base
| > >> CPU usage down a few percent, and cut running processes down at least a
| > >> third... less processes, less threads, less time the CPU has to spend
| on
| > >> context switching / paging... it must help to some degree; especially
| if
| > >> you're on hardware close to the minimum system requirements... but as
| you
| > >> say, the gain is likely to be negligible and the headache might cost
| you
| > > far
| > >> more than a hardware upgrade would.
| > >>
| > >> On the original topic... I'm not sure how Need For Speed actually
| > >> installs
| > >> itself, but... maybe reinstalling it on XP and seeing how it performs
| > > might
| > >> be worth a shot. The whole "install on 9x, copy a shortcut to XP and
| > > launch"
| > >> seems a little sketchy to me...
| > >>
| > >> --
| > >> -Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
| > >> US-Application Experience & Compatibility
| > >>
| > >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
| > > rights.
| > >> | > >> > LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how much
| > > does
| > >> > one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask question
| > > after
| > >> > question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like when
| > >> > someone suddenly screams for help because can't install anything?
| They
| > >> > turned off Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended" and
| have
| > >> > forgotten or don't remember to turn it back on.
| > >> >
| > >> > To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?),
| rights
| > > to
| > >> > saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How does
| > >> > one
| > >> > really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that "|
||"
| > >> > much in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where it
| is
| > >> > the speed of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform
| > >> > certain
| > >> > functions?
| > >> >
| > >> > And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
| > >> > --
| > >> > Chris H.
| > >> > Microsoft Windows MVP
| > >> > Associate Expert
| > >> > Expert Zone -
| > >> >
| > > message
| > >> > | > >> >>I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all
| > >> >>knowing
| > >> >>Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the
| "Disable
| > >> >>All" button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential Services"
| > >> >>enabled.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not
| > >> >> recommend
| > >> >> trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button
| caused
| > >> >> Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> Thanks,
| > >> >>
| > >> >> --
| > >> >> -Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
| > >> >> US-Application Experience & Compatibility
| > >> >>
| > >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
| > >> >> rights.
| > >> >> "Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
| > >> >> | > >> >>> Hi pjp,
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of
| > > tweaking.
| > >> >>> You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some
| > > more...
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
| > >> >>> clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've used
| > >> >>> as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is that
| > >> >>> a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:
| > >> >>>
| > >
| http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> I use these methods only for special games such as grudge matches.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
| > >> >>> Control Panel / System
| > >> >>> Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
| > >> >>> Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
| > >> >>> Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
| > >> >>> Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> B: Disable Services for Gaming.
| > >> >>> Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
| > >> >>> For each service listed below do the following:
| > >> >>> Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
| > >> >>> Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
| > >> >>> Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer Browser
| > >> >>> Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when installing
| SP1
| > > or
| > >> >>> DX9)
| > >> >>> Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support / Messenger
| > >> >>> Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as... will
| not
| > >> >>> function)
| > >> >>> System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services /
| Themes
| > >> >>> Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services only
| > >> >>> appear if
| > >> >>> you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT Service
| "
| > >> >>> "
| > >> >>> Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) /
| > > Windows
| > >> >>> Time.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> * You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday with
| > >> >>> the
| > >> >>> above
| > >> >>> services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable
| > >> >>> *WHILE*
| > >> >>> you're in
| > >> >>> a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the original
| > >> >>> Profile 1 again.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> C: Disable Page File
| > >> >>> Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to page
| > >> >>> to
| > >> >>> the HD.
| > >> >>> Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings /
| > >> >>> Advanced Tab
| > >> >>> Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No
| > >> >>> Paging
| > >> >>> file and
| > >> >>> click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will not
| > >> >>> accept your change.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> * Once you're finished your games turn back on the System Managed
| > > page
| > >> >>> file!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
| > >> >>> We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm,
| etc.)
| > > by
| > >> >>> disabling
| > >> >>> Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the
| method
| > > in
| > >> >>> step A to
| > >> >>> see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you should
| > >> >>> disable, i.e. Zone
| > >> >>> Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the
| > >> >>> Gaming
| > >> >>> Profile.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
| > >> >>> I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600, and
| > >> >>> lowering the
| > >> >>> visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24 to 52
| > > FPS!
| > >> >>> :)
| > >> >>> This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks provided.
| > >> >>> Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound
| settings
| > >> >>> that will
| > >> >>> help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling near
| you.
| > >> >>> Music and
| > >> >>> the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are expensive
| > >> >>> ear
| > >> >>> candy.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
| > >> >>> Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual Effects
| > >> >>> Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back
| after
| > >> >>> your games).
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> G: Disable Startup Programs
| > >> >>> Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable all
| > > button.
| > >> >>> You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll have 5
| > >> >>> seconds to pick
| > >> >>> Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
| > >> >>> *Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to disable
| > > ALL
| > >> >>> services
| > >> >>> for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
| > >> >>> startu
| > > p
| > >> >>> again!!!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own
| > > system.
| > >> >>> I
| > >> >>> hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly help
| you
| > > pwn
| > >> >>> your opps!
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> --
| > >> >>> Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
| > >> >>> Jimmy S.
| > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> Game FAQs:
| http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
| > >> >>> Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call
| /
| > >> >>> Contact
| > >> >>> MS Support at:
| > >> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
| > >> >>> My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
| > >> >>> rights.
| > >> >>> _________________________________________________________
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>> | > >> >>> | Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is
| > >> >>> necessary in
| > >> >>> | Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when
| turned
| > > off
| > >> >>> will
| > >> >>> | actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a
| > > purpose,
| > >> >>> and
| > >> >>> | that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a
| couple
| > >> >>> web
| > >> >>> | sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to
| > >> >>> "speed
| > >> >>> up" XP
| > >> >>> | for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like turning
| off
| > >> >>> | Cryptographic Services.
| > >> >>> | --
| > >> >>> | Chris H.
| > >> >>> | Microsoft Windows MVP
| > >> >>> | Associate Expert
| > >> >>> | Expert Zone -
| > >> >>> |
| > >> >>> | | > >> >>> | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update site
| > >> >>> applied.
| > >> >>> | > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up and
| > > going.
| > >> >>> | > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No Problem
| ..."
| > >> >>> all
| > >> >>> | > around.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > >> >>> | > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > >> >>> | > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > >> >>> | > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > >> >>> | > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > >> >>> | > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > >> >>> | > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > >> >>> | > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > >> >>> | > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > >> >>> | > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Logitech mouse
| > >> >>> | > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's in-house
| > >> >>> (TCP/IP and
| > >> >>> | > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > >> >>> | > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB
| > > devices.
| > >> >>> Does
| > >> >>> | > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no
| attached
| > >> >>> device
| > >> >>> | > shows any kind of problem in use..
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP drivers
| for
| > > it
| > >> >>> all
| > >> >>> | > (I
| > >> >>> | > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up and
| > >> >>> running with
| > >> >>> | > printers and folders being shared as expected from both sides.
| I
| > >> >>> even
| > >> >>> | > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy
| server
| > > on
| > >> >>> one
| > >> >>> | > of
| > >> >>> | > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in
| > > frustration
| > >> >>> at
| > >> >>> | > it's
| > >> >>> | > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even though
| > > it's
| > >> >>> | > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that set it
| > >> >>> up
| > >> >>> (Users
| > >> >>> | > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is, I
| > >> >>> can't
| > >> >>> get the
| > >> >>> | > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears to be
| > > only
| > >> >>> XP's
| > >> >>> | > built-in support for the card.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference for
| > > games
| > >> >>> is,
| > >> >>> | > use
| > >> >>> | > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's priority,
| > > e.g.
| > >> >>> "cmd
| > >> >>> | > /c
| > >> >>> | > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd
| > > expect).
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as Performance
| > > under
| > >> >>> | > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually (but
| > >> >>> randomly in
| > >> >>> | > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these
| > >> >>> various
| > >> >>> | > services
| > >> >>> | > do but when you try to research them it seems like the answer
| > >> >>> becomes a
| > >> >>> | > circular reference and it's never really explained. In
| > >> >>> particular,
| > >> >>> it's
| > >> >>> | > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding the
| > >> >>> ethernet.
| > >> >>> | > There
| > >> >>> | > seems to be a number of various services that might be doing
| some
| > >> >>> type of
| > >> >>> | > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
| > >> >>> documented I
| > >> >>> | > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to
| > > basically
| > >> >>> | > mucking
| > >> >>> | > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web using a
| > >> >>> Proxy
| > >> >>> | > server
| > >> >>> | > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything to do
| > > with
| > >> >>> the
| > >> >>> | > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of blindly
| > >> >>> changing
| > >> >>> | > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
| > >> >>> "un-changing"
| > >> >>> | > it
| > >> >>> | > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
| > >> >>> inadvertant
| > >> >>> | > consequences).
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service REALLY
| > > does,
| > >> >>> what
| > >> >>> | > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in order
| to
| > >> >>> function
| > >> >>> | > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help for
| > >> >>> "them" and
| > >> >>> | > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to lead
| > >> >>> no-where
| > >> >>> | > usefull.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance monitoring
| > >> >>> service,
| > >> >>> | > indexing and the like.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | > | > >> >>> | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need to
| know
| > >> >>> your
| > >> >>> | >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need are
| > >> >>> cpu -
| > >> >>> | >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If you
| > > have
| > >> >>> any
| > >> >>> | >> problems finding this out then here
| > >> >>> | > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| > >> >>> | >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware
| > > requirements
| > >> >>> are
| > >> >>> | > much
| > >> >>> | >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much ram,
| > >> >>> say
| > >> >>> 128mbs,
| > >> >>> | > XP
| > >> >>> | >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
| > >> >>> performance. I
| > >> >>> | >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you
| Jimmy
| > > :)
| > >> >>> | >> Chris C
| > >> >>> | >> Chris
| > >> >>> | >> | > >> >>> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just
| created
| > > new
| > >> >>> | > shortcut
| > >> >>> | >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running so
| > >> >>> slow
| > >> >>> (slow
| > >> >>> | >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it
| acceptably
| > > at
| > >> >>> | >> 1024x768.
| > >> >>> | >> > All other settings the same including under Properties
| DirectX
| > >> >>> | >> > settings.
| > >> >>> | >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
| > >> >>> exaggerated,
| > >> >>> | >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type games.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for the
| > >> >>> Radeon, e.g.
| > >> >>> | >> Cat
| > >> >>> | >> > 4.3.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background so
| > >> >>> wondering if
| > >> >>> | >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually
| does
| > > as
| > >> >>> MS's
| > >> >>> | > help
| > >> >>> | >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in most
| > >> >>> cases.
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >> >
| > >> >>> | >>
| > >> >>> | >>
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> | >
| > >> >>> |
| > >> >>> |
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>>
| > >> >>
| > >> >>
| > >> >
| > >> >
| > >>
| > >>
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
 
P

pjp

Questions asked included within

Chris H. said:
Main points can be:
Click to expand...
(1) The XP and Win9x lines are different registry structures,
Click to expand...

So what? The software creates what it needs to under whatever OS it's
running upon first run.
(2) both operating systems use different version of drivers for
graphics, controllers, etc., and it can botch up your game settings,
Click to expand...

How? The actual calls into the drivers etc. the program makes are the same
as it's the same calls into DX regardless of OS assuming it's same version
DX. The internals of how DX actually works underneath are hidden to the
game. The same is true for device drivers of any sort etc. That is the whole
point of having a common API across various versions of the OS.

The only time it'll botch up settings is when the game keeps same in an
"ini" and/or "cfg" file in it's home folder. That being the case, changes
under one OS would be reflected playing in the other OS. If instead such
items are kept in the registry, they'd be completely divorced from each
other. Makes no diff to me as I can easily handle the "ini/cfg" file
reflection.
(3) You're messing with your game performance. :cool:
Click to expand...

Would it convince you if I DO install some game separately into both OS's.
I'll even put it on the C drive under 98SE and the D drive under XP. Name
the game keeping in consideration how I'll actually report back my findings,
e.g. what game ... how to get fps etc. etc. from it.
 
J

Jimmy S.

I'll agree that there is information stored by software in our
registries which is unnecessary.. from a users perspective at least.

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com


Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call / Contact
MS Support at: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
_________________________________________________________

|I still feel that's in fact what almost all software should do rather than
| bloating the registry with entries no-one but itself ever use. Since DOS 3,
| software has easily been able to determine it's "home" folder, it's always
| passed to the program as command line parameter 0 by the OS, XP included.
| Therefore for most programs, it'd be a much better choice if they simply
| created any "ini" and/or "cfg" files etc. in this home folder. Anything else
| can easily be handled including it in each users save files.
|
| I'm sure we can all agree there's way to much stuff put in the registry that
| just doesn't seem to have any "use". Geez, seems everything you install "has
| to get their name in there" even if they don't create any sub-keys and/or
| values.
|
| Argh!!!
|
| "Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
| | > I've seen that happen with some games where the game creates
| > a .ini for it's input and output devices. One game that comes to
| > mind is CFS which requires you to run a config utility whenever
| > you make changes such as upgrading your video card / driver.
| >
| > --
| > Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
| > Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
| >
| >
| > Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
| > Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call /
| Contact
| > MS Support at: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
| > My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
| rights.
| > _________________________________________________________
| >
| | > | "If you're using the same folder on a common partition for program
| > | installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE attempting to use
| the
| > | same files - don't. Just that simple."
| > |
| > | I think you're wrong in considering this so much a no-no. Please
| elaborate
| > | specific problem as it's my understanding (from 20 years programming
| > | experience) unless there's OS feature specific files involved, the whole
| > | point of the Windows API is so that one can write software that'll run
| > | unchanged under any of MS's 32 bit OS's.
| > |
| > | Basically assuming the game doesn't actually "demand" existing registry
| > | entries before it'll run and assuming it doesn't install dll's etc.
| anywhere
| > | but it's own installed folder, what's the problem? I'm not aware of
| anything
| > | amiss with this as it's all still code for the Windows 32 bit API and DX
| > | calls etc. are all the same across OS's.
| > |
| > | Obviously anything that makes use of features only found under XP etc.
| will
| > | have problems but games (thankfully) still state "For 98...XP" and I've
| yet
| > | to see one has different installed files depending on OS.
| > |
| > | Windows 98SE on C:
| > | Windows XP Pro on D:
| > |
| > | I install all games into a folder named " D:\More Games\'gamedir' "
| (largest
| > | hd in system) regardless of OS in use at time.
| > |
| > | Seems at least three games I've tried don't care about actual OS once
| > | they've been installed into a folder. I'm also sure many more also would
| > | have no problems, Quake and most of it's variants using that grahics
| engine
| > | for example assuming OpenGl's working properly. You'll also find many
| > | programs also will have no problems, e.g. Paint Shop Pro 7 doesn't as
| again
| > | the developers wrote their code properly without having OS version
| specific
| > | anything in it and without installing anything outside it's own folder.
| > |
| > | Of course products like Office have to use two separate installs. MS
| places
| > | so much crap outside of the install folder and usually alter enough
| registry
| > | entries that it can't be helped.
| > |
| > | Current testing is from ...
| > |
| > | NFS:U was already installed under 98SE, under XP just created a shortcut
| and
| > | it runs with no complaints.
| > | FS 2004 was already installed under 98SE, same as NFS:U, e.g. runs under
| XP
| > | with no problems and no complaints
| > | Links 2003 installed under XP, under 98SE just created shortcut and it
| runs
| > | with no complaints.
| > |
| > | But all of them have had the "testing reversed", e.g. reversed OS
| installed
| > | under and the results (XP slower) is the same.
| > |
| > | Only thing that "happened" is when first run under the "other" OS, both
| > | Links and FS do the Licensing/Agree dialog. All three basically
| duplicated
| > | the registry entries found under the other OS after their first run (I
| > | checked).
| > |
| > | All three examples above run noticably faster and hence appear smoother
| > | under 98SE even at one notch of resolution higher.
| > |
| > | The only "problem" is where the game "Saves" can vary between OS's. I
| can
| > | live with it.
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > Okay, now I'm hoping I'm not seeing a pattern here: "installed under
| XP
| > | and
| > | > shortcuts created under 98SE"? You're not dual-booting on the same
| > | > partition are you? If you're using the same folder on a common
| partition
| > | > for program installation and playing the games on XP and Win98SE
| > | attempting
| > | > to use the same files - don't. Just that simple.
| > | > --
| > | > Chris H.
| > | > Microsoft Windows MVP
| > | > Associate Expert
| > | > Expert Zone -
| > | >
| > | > | > | > > Yea, I agree worth trying but not hopefull as it's apparent also in
| > | Links
| > | > > 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 (but not as much, slower game) which were
| > | > > installed
| > | > > under XP and shortcuts created under 98SE.
| > | > >
| > | message
| > | > > | > | > >> Preaching to the choir... :)
| > | > >>
| > | > >> Barebones services allocate half as much memory (maybe more), knock
| the
| > | > > base
| > | > >> CPU usage down a few percent, and cut running processes down at
| least a
| > | > >> third... less processes, less threads, less time the CPU has to
| spend
| > | on
| > | > >> context switching / paging... it must help to some degree;
| especially
| > | if
| > | > >> you're on hardware close to the minimum system requirements... but
| as
| > | you
| > | > >> say, the gain is likely to be negligible and the headache might
| cost
| > | you
| > | > > far
| > | > >> more than a hardware upgrade would.
| > | > >>
| > | > >> On the original topic... I'm not sure how Need For Speed actually
| > | > >> installs
| > | > >> itself, but... maybe reinstalling it on XP and seeing how it
| performs
| > | > > might
| > | > >> be worth a shot. The whole "install on 9x, copy a shortcut to XP
| and
| > | > > launch"
| > | > >> seems a little sketchy to me...
| > | > >>
| > | > >> --
| > | > >> -Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
| > | > >> US-Application Experience & Compatibility
| > | > >>
| > | > >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
| > | > > rights.
| > | > >> | > | > >> > LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how
| much
| > | > > does
| > | > >> > one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask
| question
| > | > > after
| > | > >> > question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like
| when
| > | > >> > someone suddenly screams for help because can't install anything?
| > | They
| > | > >> > turned off Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended"
| and
| > | have
| > | > >> > forgotten or don't remember to turn it back on.
| > | > >> >
| > | > >> > To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?),
| > | rights
| > | > > to
| > | > >> > saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How
| does
| > | > >> > one
| > | > >> > really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that
| "|
| > ||"
| > | > >> > much in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where
| it
| > | is
| > | > >> > the speed of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform
| > | > >> > certain
| > | > >> > functions?
| > | > >> >
| > | > >> > And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
| > | > >> > --
| > | > >> > Chris H.
| > | > >> > Microsoft Windows MVP
| > | > >> > Associate Expert
| > | > >> > Expert Zone -
| > | > >> >
| in
| > | > > message
| > | > >> > | > | > >> >>I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all
| > | > >> >>knowing
| > | > >> >>Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the
| > | "Disable
| > | > >> >>All" button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential
| Services"
| > | > >> >>enabled.
| > | > >> >>
| > | > >> >> You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.
| > | > >> >>
| > | > >> >> Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not
| > | > >> >> recommend
| > | > >> >> trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button
| > | caused
| > | > >> >> Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.
| > | > >> >>
| > | > >> >> Thanks,
| > | > >> >>
| > | > >> >> --
| > | > >> >> -Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
| > | > >> >> US-Application Experience & Compatibility
| > | > >> >>
| > | > >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
| no
| > | > >> >> rights.
| > | > >> >> "Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
| > | > >> >> | > | > >> >>> Hi pjp,
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of
| > | > > tweaking.
| > | > >> >>> You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some
| > | > > more...
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
| > | > >> >>> clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've
| used
| > | > >> >>> as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is
| that
| > | > >> >>> a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >
| > |
| http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> I use these methods only for special games such as grudge
| matches.
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
| > | > >> >>> Control Panel / System
| > | > >> >>> Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
| > | > >> >>> Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
| > | > >> >>> Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
| > | > >> >>> Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> B: Disable Services for Gaming.
| > | > >> >>> Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
| > | > >> >>> For each service listed below do the following:
| > | > >> >>> Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
| > | > >> >>> Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
| > | > >> >>> Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer
| Browser
| > | > >> >>> Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when
| installing
| > | SP1
| > | > > or
| > | > >> >>> DX9)
| > | > >> >>> Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support /
| Messenger
| > | > >> >>> Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as...
| will
| > | not
| > | > >> >>> function)
| > | > >> >>> System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services /
| > | Themes
| > | > >> >>> Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services
| only
| > | > >> >>> appear if
| > | > >> >>> you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT
| Service
| > | "
| > | > >> >>> "
| > | > >> >>> Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) /
| > | > > Windows
| > | > >> >>> Time.
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> * You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday
| with
| > | > >> >>> the
| > | > >> >>> above
| > | > >> >>> services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable
| > | > >> >>> *WHILE*
| > | > >> >>> you're in
| > | > >> >>> a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the
| original
| > | > >> >>> Profile 1 again.
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> C: Disable Page File
| > | > >> >>> Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to
| page
| > | > >> >>> to
| > | > >> >>> the HD.
| > | > >> >>> Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings
| /
| > | > >> >>> Advanced Tab
| > | > >> >>> Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No
| > | > >> >>> Paging
| > | > >> >>> file and
| > | > >> >>> click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will
| not
| > | > >> >>> accept your change.
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> * Once you're finished your games turn back on the System
| Managed
| > | > > page
| > | > >> >>> file!
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
| > | > >> >>> We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm,
| > | etc.)
| > | > > by
| > | > >> >>> disabling
| > | > >> >>> Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the
| > | method
| > | > > in
| > | > >> >>> step A to
| > | > >> >>> see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you
| should
| > | > >> >>> disable, i.e. Zone
| > | > >> >>> Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the
| > | > >> >>> Gaming
| > | > >> >>> Profile.
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
| > | > >> >>> I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600,
| and
| > | > >> >>> lowering the
| > | > >> >>> visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24
| to 52
| > | > > FPS!
| > | > >> >>> :)
| > | > >> >>> This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks
| provided.
| > | > >> >>> Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound
| > | settings
| > | > >> >>> that will
| > | > >> >>> help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling
| near
| > | you.
| > | > >> >>> Music and
| > | > >> >>> the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are
| expensive
| > | > >> >>> ear
| > | > >> >>> candy.
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
| > | > >> >>> Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual
| Effects
| > | > >> >>> Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back
| > | after
| > | > >> >>> your games).
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> G: Disable Startup Programs
| > | > >> >>> Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable
| all
| > | > > button.
| > | > >> >>> You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll
| have 5
| > | > >> >>> seconds to pick
| > | > >> >>> Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
| > | > >> >>> *Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to
| disable
| > | > > ALL
| > | > >> >>> services
| > | > >> >>> for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
| > | > >> >>> startu
| > | > > p
| > | > >> >>> again!!!
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own
| > | > > system.
| > | > >> >>> I
| > | > >> >>> hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly
| help
| > | you
| > | > > pwn
| > | > >> >>> your opps!
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> --
| > | > >> >>> Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell /
| User
| > | > >> >>> Jimmy S.
| > | > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> Game FAQs:
| > | http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
| > | > >> >>> Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or
| Call
| > | /
| > | > >> >>> Contact
| > | > >> >>> MS Support at:
| > | > >> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
| > | > >> >>> My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer
| any
| > | > >> >>> rights.
| > | > >> >>> _________________________________________________________
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>> | > | > >> >>> | Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is
| > | > >> >>> necessary in
| > | > >> >>> | Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when
| > | turned
| > | > > off
| > | > >> >>> will
| > | > >> >>> | actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a
| > | > > purpose,
| > | > >> >>> and
| > | > >> >>> | that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a
| > | couple
| > | > >> >>> web
| > | > >> >>> | sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to
| > | > >> >>> "speed
| > | > >> >>> up" XP
| > | > >> >>> | for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like
| turning
| > | off
| > | > >> >>> | Cryptographic Services.
| > | > >> >>> | --
| > | > >> >>> | Chris H.
| > | > >> >>> | Microsoft Windows MVP
| > | > >> >>> | Associate Expert
| > | > >> >>> | Expert Zone -
| > | > >> >>> |
| > | > >> >>> | | > | > >> >>> | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update
| site
| > | > >> >>> applied.
| > | > >> >>> | > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up
| and
| > | > > going.
| > | > >> >>> | > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No
| Problem
| > | ..."
| > | > >> >>> all
| > | > >> >>> | > around.
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > | > >> >>> | > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > | > >> >>> | > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > | > >> >>> | > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > | > >> >>> | > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > | > >> >>> | > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > | > >> >>> | > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > | > >> >>> | > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > | > >> >>> | > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > | > >> >>> | > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > Logitech mouse
| > | > >> >>> | > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's
| in-house
| > | > >> >>> (TCP/IP and
| > | > >> >>> | > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > | > >> >>> | > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB
| > | > > devices.
| > | > >> >>> Does
| > | > >> >>> | > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no
| > | attached
| > | > >> >>> device
| > | > >> >>> | > shows any kind of problem in use..
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP
| drivers
| > | for
| > | > > it
| > | > >> >>> all
| > | > >> >>> | > (I
| > | > >> >>> | > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up
| and
| > | > >> >>> running with
| > | > >> >>> | > printers and folders being shared as expected from both
| sides.
| > | I
| > | > >> >>> even
| > | > >> >>> | > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy
| > | server
| > | > > on
| > | > >> >>> one
| > | > >> >>> | > of
| > | > >> >>> | > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in
| > | > > frustration
| > | > >> >>> at
| > | > >> >>> | > it's
| > | > >> >>> | > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even
| though
| > | > > it's
| > | > >> >>> | > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that
| set it
| > | > >> >>> up
| > | > >> >>> (Users
| > | > >> >>> | > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is,
| I
| > | > >> >>> can't
| > | > >> >>> get the
| > | > >> >>> | > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears
| to be
| > | > > only
| > | > >> >>> XP's
| > | > >> >>> | > built-in support for the card.
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference
| for
| > | > > games
| > | > >> >>> is,
| > | > >> >>> | > use
| > | > >> >>> | > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's
| priority,
| > | > > e.g.
| > | > >> >>> "cmd
| > | > >> >>> | > /c
| > | > >> >>> | > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd
| > | > > expect).
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as
| Performance
| > | > > under
| > | > >> >>> | > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually
| (but
| > | > >> >>> randomly in
| > | > >> >>> | > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these
| > | > >> >>> various
| > | > >> >>> | > services
| > | > >> >>> | > do but when you try to research them it seems like the
| answer
| > | > >> >>> becomes a
| > | > >> >>> | > circular reference and it's never really explained. In
| > | > >> >>> particular,
| > | > >> >>> it's
| > | > >> >>> | > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding
| the
| > | > >> >>> ethernet.
| > | > >> >>> | > There
| > | > >> >>> | > seems to be a number of various services that might be
| doing
| > | some
| > | > >> >>> type of
| > | > >> >>> | > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
| > | > >> >>> documented I
| > | > >> >>> | > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to
| > | > > basically
| > | > >> >>> | > mucking
| > | > >> >>> | > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web
| using a
| > | > >> >>> Proxy
| > | > >> >>> | > server
| > | > >> >>> | > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything
| to do
| > | > > with
| > | > >> >>> the
| > | > >> >>> | > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of
| blindly
| > | > >> >>> changing
| > | > >> >>> | > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
| > | > >> >>> "un-changing"
| > | > >> >>> | > it
| > | > >> >>> | > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
| > | > >> >>> inadvertant
| > | > >> >>> | > consequences).
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service
| REALLY
| > | > > does,
| > | > >> >>> what
| > | > >> >>> | > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in
| order
| > | to
| > | > >> >>> function
| > | > >> >>> | > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help
| for
| > | > >> >>> "them" and
| > | > >> >>> | > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to
| lead
| > | > >> >>> no-where
| > | > >> >>> | > usefull.
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance
| monitoring
| > | > >> >>> service,
| > | > >> >>> | > indexing and the like.
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | > | > | > >> >>> | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need
| to
| > | know
| > | > >> >>> your
| > | > >> >>> | >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need
| are
| > | > >> >>> cpu -
| > | > >> >>> | >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If
| you
| > | > > have
| > | > >> >>> any
| > | > >> >>> | >> problems finding this out then here
| > | > >> >>> | > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| > | > >> >>> | >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware
| > | > > requirements
| > | > >> >>> are
| > | > >> >>> | > much
| > | > >> >>> | >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much
| ram,
| > | > >> >>> say
| > | > >> >>> 128mbs,
| > | > >> >>> | > XP
| > | > >> >>> | >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
| > | > >> >>> performance. I
| > | > >> >>> | >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you
| > | Jimmy
| > | > > :)
| > | > >> >>> | >> Chris C
| > | > >> >>> | >> Chris
| > | > >> >>> | >> | > | > >> >>> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| > | > >> >>> | >> >
| > | > >> >>> | >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just
| > | created
| > | > > new
| > | > >> >>> | > shortcut
| > | > >> >>> | >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running
| so
| > | > >> >>> slow
| > | > >> >>> (slow
| > | > >> >>> | >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it
| > | acceptably
| > | > > at
| > | > >> >>> | >> 1024x768.
| > | > >> >>> | >> > All other settings the same including under Properties
| > | DirectX
| > | > >> >>> | >> > settings.
| > | > >> >>> | >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
| > | > >> >>> exaggerated,
| > | > >> >>> | >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type
| games.
| > | > >> >>> | >> >
| > | > >> >>> | >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for
| the
| > | > >> >>> Radeon, e.g.
| > | > >> >>> | >> Cat
| > | > >> >>> | >> > 4.3.
| > | > >> >>> | >> >
| > | > >> >>> | >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background
| so
| > | > >> >>> wondering if
| > | > >> >>> | >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually
| > | does
| > | > > as
| > | > >> >>> MS's
| > | > >> >>> | > help
| > | > >> >>> | >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in
| most
| > | > >> >>> cases.
| > | > >> >>> | >> >
| > | > >> >>> | >> >
| > | > >> >>> | >>
| > | > >> >>> | >>
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> | >
| > | > >> >>> |
| > | > >> >>> |
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>>
| > | > >> >>
| > | > >> >>
| > | > >> >
| > | > >> >
| > | > >>
| > | > >>
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
C

Chris H.

Not going to argue with you, since you seem to know everything about it.
I've said it is a bad idea, since certain files are written to the game
files, written to the Registry, plus you're using different drivers by
operating system - especially in the case of Halo and Links 2003, which are
graphic intense programs. Do what you wish.

You're running the partitions and games the way you wish, and I'm happy for
you. I can only remark that I run multiple partitions/operating systems and
install some of those same programs you're running individually, by OS, and
am not seeing the problems you're reporting.
 
A

Anthony Procissi [MSFT]

Hi Pjp,

What can one say to; "You'll notice I'm not even considering removing 98SE
and using only XP"?
You find no joy in using the task manager to kill a hung process? For me,
that was reason enough to never look back.

Given your level of experience I'm a bit perplexed by your animosity toward
the Win2k platform. Browse through chapter 2 of Inside Windows 2000 and read
about 9x's16-bit dino-code, processes free to stomp all over each others
memory, and how freely the kernel is called by anyone with it's number...
its shameful really... :)

XP asks a little more but gives it right back! Before you toss it in the
trash, and despite your arguments about how and why NFS should perform
cross-platform, you ought to at least try installing in on XP and if that
doesn't help, consider upgrading your graphics card if you're serious about
gaming. The Radeon 7000 series is getting a little dated... I understand it
works great for you on 98SE... but, something with a little more punch will
make you forget all about your beloved 98.... that is, unless you really do
love rebooting every time a user mode application hiccups... :)
--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
pjp said:
In my case, speed of the Internet has nothing to do with it as I'm on
dialup
in a rural area and never exceed 28.8 baud so never bother even attempting
to play anything of substance online.

I have just installed a dual-boot system running 98SE and XP pro. Even
using
the same version drivers for my Radeon, e.g. Cat 4.3 the latest out
"yesterday".

I found a few games don't mind at all installing under one OS and then
simply creating a shortcut to the same game in the other OS avoiding a
duplicate install. Presumably such games simply create their registry
entries as required. One of those games is Need For Speed : Underground
which I had been playing under 98SE for some time now. Also, presumably
regardless of the OS, the game installs the same files, e.g. none are
"optimized" for specific OS, that's DX's job.

In any case, under XP for every game I've tried so far I have to lower my
playing resolution by one "notch", e.g. 1280x1024 -> 1024x768 ->
800x600 ->
640x480. It also seems that the eye candy needs to be backed off slightly
to
match the same performance as under 98SE even after the res drop.

That's not what I expected and am still appraising if I should

1) bother keeping XP on at all
2) install games under 98SE and regular apps under XP
3) install everything under 98SE and treat XP as a toy to simply play with
and discard whenever.

You'll notice I'm not even considering removing 98SE and using only XP.

Chris H. said:
LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how much
does
one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask question
after
question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like when someone
suddenly screams for help because can't install anything? They turned
off
Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended" and have forgotten or
don't remember to turn it back on.

To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?), rights to
saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How does one
really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that "| |" much
in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where it is the speed
of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform certain functions?

And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

message
I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all knowing
Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the "Disable All"
button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential Services" enabled.

You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.

Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not recommend
trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button caused
Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.

Thanks,

--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
Hi pjp,

I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of tweaking.
You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some
more...

USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've used
as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is that
a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp


I use these methods only for special games such as grudge matches.

A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
Control Panel / System
Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds

B: Disable Services for Gaming.
Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
For each service listed below do the following:
Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1

List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer Browser
Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when installing SP1
or
DX9)
Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support / Messenger
Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as... will not
function)
System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services / Themes
Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services only appear
if
you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT Service " "
Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) /
Windows
Time.

* You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday with the
above
services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable *WHILE*
you're in
a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the original
Profile 1 again.

C: Disable Page File
Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to page to
the HD.
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings /
Advanced Tab
Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No Paging
file and
click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will not accept
your change.

* Once you're finished your games turn back on the System Managed
page
file!

D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm, etc.)
by
disabling
Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the method
in
step A to
see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you should
disable, i.e. Zone
Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the Gaming
Profile.

E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600, and lowering
the
visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24 to 52 FPS!
:)
This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks provided.
Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound settings that
will
help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling near you.
Music and
the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are expensive ear
candy.

F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual Effects
Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back after your
games).

G: Disable Startup Programs
Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable all button.
You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll have 5
seconds to pick
Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.

WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
*Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to disable
ALL
services
for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
startup
again!!!

Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own
system. I
hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly help you pwn
your opps!

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S.
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call /
Contact
MS Support at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
rights.
_________________________________________________________

| Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is necessary
in
| Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when turned off
will
| actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a
purpose,
and
| that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a couple web
| sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to "speed
up" XP
| for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like turning off
| Cryptographic Services.
| --
| Chris H.
| Microsoft Windows MVP
| Associate Expert
| Expert Zone -
|
| | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update site
applied.
| > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up and
going.
| > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No Problem ..." all
| > around.
| >
| > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| >
| > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| >
| > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| >
| > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| >
| > Logitech mouse
| > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| >
| > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's in-house
(TCP/IP and
| > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| >
| > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB
devices.
Does
| > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no attached
device
| > shows any kind of problem in use..
| >
| > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP drivers for it
all
| > (I
| > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up and running
with
| > printers and folders being shared as expected from both sides. I even
| > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy server on
one
| > of
| > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in
frustration
at
| > it's
| > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even though it's
| > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that set it up
(Users
| > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is, I can't
get the
| > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears to be only
XP's
| > built-in support for the card.
| >
| > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference for games
is,
| > use
| > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's priority, e.g.
"cmd
| > /c
| > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd
expect).
| >
| > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as Performance
under
| > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually (but
randomly in
| > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these various
| > services
| > do but when you try to research them it seems like the answer becomes
a
| > circular reference and it's never really explained. In particular,
it's
| > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding the
ethernet.
| > There
| > seems to be a number of various services that might be doing some
type of
| > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
documented I
| > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to
basically
| > mucking
| > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web using a Proxy
| > server
| > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything to do with
the
| > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of blindly
changing
| > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
"un-changing"
| > it
| > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
inadvertant
| > consequences).
| >
| > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service REALLY
does,
what
| > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in order to
function
| > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help for
"them" and
| > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to lead
no-where
| > usefull.
| >
| > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance monitoring
service,
| > indexing and the like.
| >
| > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| >
| > | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need to know
your
| >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need are cpu -
| >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If you have
any
| >> problems finding this out then here
| > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware requirements
are
| > much
| >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much ram, say
128mbs,
| > XP
| >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
performance. I
| >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you Jimmy :)
| >> Chris C
| >> Chris
| >> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| >> >
| >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just created new
| > shortcut
| >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running so slow
(slow
| >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it acceptably at
| >> 1024x768.
| >> > All other settings the same including under Properties DirectX
| >> > settings.
| >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
exaggerated,
| >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type games.
| >> >
| >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for the Radeon,
e.g.
| >> Cat
| >> > 4.3.
| >> >
| >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background so
wondering if
| >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually does
as
MS's
| > help
| >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in most cases.
| >> >
| >> >
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
C

Chris Catt

Hi, maybe so, but your card is at the bottom specs required, also you won't
actually have all the 'eyecandy' turned on because your card isn't capable
of running it, Halo is a dx9 game. Couple that with a relatively slow CPU,
memory and motherboard you have the hallmarks of a PC that will struggle
running games at the same speeds as win98 on XP. If you don't like XP then
take it off....
Chris C
 
P

pjp

Without going into all the other reasons I find the direction the design of
Windows is heading objectionable (pay per use), the reality is ...

I still have need to use even old DOS communications programs for very
specialized hardware, e.g. custom embedded stuff and the like, writing
EPROM's etc.

Under Win9x these all work under NT kernel they don't and don't believe they
can be made to.

Anthony Procissi said:
Hi Pjp,

What can one say to; "You'll notice I'm not even considering removing 98SE
and using only XP"?
You find no joy in using the task manager to kill a hung process? For me,
that was reason enough to never look back.

Given your level of experience I'm a bit perplexed by your animosity toward
the Win2k platform. Browse through chapter 2 of Inside Windows 2000 and read
about 9x's16-bit dino-code, processes free to stomp all over each others
memory, and how freely the kernel is called by anyone with it's number...
its shameful really... :)

XP asks a little more but gives it right back! Before you toss it in the
trash, and despite your arguments about how and why NFS should perform
cross-platform, you ought to at least try installing in on XP and if that
doesn't help, consider upgrading your graphics card if you're serious about
gaming. The Radeon 7000 series is getting a little dated... I understand it
works great for you on 98SE... but, something with a little more punch will
make you forget all about your beloved 98.... that is, unless you really do
love rebooting every time a user mode application hiccups... :)
--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
pjp said:
In my case, speed of the Internet has nothing to do with it as I'm on
dialup
in a rural area and never exceed 28.8 baud so never bother even attempting
to play anything of substance online.

I have just installed a dual-boot system running 98SE and XP pro. Even
using
the same version drivers for my Radeon, e.g. Cat 4.3 the latest out
"yesterday".

I found a few games don't mind at all installing under one OS and then
simply creating a shortcut to the same game in the other OS avoiding a
duplicate install. Presumably such games simply create their registry
entries as required. One of those games is Need For Speed : Underground
which I had been playing under 98SE for some time now. Also, presumably
regardless of the OS, the game installs the same files, e.g. none are
"optimized" for specific OS, that's DX's job.

In any case, under XP for every game I've tried so far I have to lower my
playing resolution by one "notch", e.g. 1280x1024 -> 1024x768 ->
800x600 ->
640x480. It also seems that the eye candy needs to be backed off slightly
to
match the same performance as under 98SE even after the res drop.

That's not what I expected and am still appraising if I should

1) bother keeping XP on at all
2) install games under 98SE and regular apps under XP
3) install everything under 98SE and treat XP as a toy to simply play with
and discard whenever.

You'll notice I'm not even considering removing 98SE and using only XP.

Chris H. said:
LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how much
does
one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask question
after
question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like when someone
suddenly screams for help because can't install anything? They turned
off
Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended" and have forgotten or
don't remember to turn it back on.

To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?), rights to
saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How does one
really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that "| |" much
in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where it is the speed
of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform certain functions?

And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

message
I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all knowing
Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the "Disable All"
button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential Services" enabled.

You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.

Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not recommend
trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button caused
Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.

Thanks,

--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
Hi pjp,

I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of tweaking.
You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some
more...

USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've used
as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is that
a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:
Click to expand...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp
I use these methods only for special games such as grudge matches.

A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
Control Panel / System
Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds

B: Disable Services for Gaming.
Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
For each service listed below do the following:
Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1

List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer Browser
Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when installing SP1
or
DX9)
Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support / Messenger
Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as... will not
function)
System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services / Themes
Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services only appear
if
you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT Service " "
Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) /
Windows
Time.

* You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday with the
above
services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable *WHILE*
you're in
a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the original
Profile 1 again.

C: Disable Page File
Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to page to
the HD.
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings /
Advanced Tab
Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No
Click to expand...
Paging
file and
click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will not accept
your change.

* Once you're finished your games turn back on the System Managed
page
file!

D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm, etc.)
by
disabling
Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the method
in
step A to
see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you should
disable, i.e. Zone
Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the Gaming
Profile.

E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600, and lowering
the
visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24 to 52 FPS!
:)
This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks provided.
Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound settings that
will
help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling near you.
Music and
the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are expensive ear
candy.

F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual Effects
Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back after your
games).

G: Disable Startup Programs
Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable all button.
You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll have 5
seconds to pick
Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.

WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
*Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to disable
ALL
services
for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
startup
again!!!

Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own
system. I
hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly help you pwn
your opps!

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S.
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call /
Contact
MS Support at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
rights.
_________________________________________________________

| Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is necessary
in
| Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when turned off
will
| actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a
purpose,
and
| that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a
Click to expand...
couple
web
| sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to "speed
up" XP
| for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like turning off
| Cryptographic Services.
| --
| Chris H.
| Microsoft Windows MVP
| Associate Expert
| Expert Zone -
|
| | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update site
applied.
| > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up and
going.
| > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No Problem
Click to expand...
...."
all
| > around.
| >
| > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| >
| > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| >
| > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| >
| > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| >
| > Logitech mouse
| > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| >
| > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's in-house
(TCP/IP and
| > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| >
| > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB
devices.
Does
| > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no attached
device
| > shows any kind of problem in use..
| >
| > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP drivers
Click to expand...
for
it
all
| > (I
| > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up and running
with
| > printers and folders being shared as expected from both sides. I even
| > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy
Click to expand...
server
on
one
| > of
| > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in
frustration
at
| > it's
| > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even though it's
| > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that set it up
(Users
| > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is, I can't
get the
| > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears to be only
XP's
| > built-in support for the card.
| >
| > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference for games
is,
| > use
| > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's priority, e.g.
"cmd
| > /c
| > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd
expect).
| >
| > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as Performance
under
| > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually (but
randomly in
| > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these various
| > services
| > do but when you try to research them it seems like the answer becomes
a
| > circular reference and it's never really explained. In particular,
it's
| > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding the
ethernet.
| > There
| > seems to be a number of various services that might be doing some
type of
| > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
documented I
| > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to
basically
| > mucking
| > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web using a Proxy
| > server
| > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything to do with
the
| > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of blindly
changing
| > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
"un-changing"
| > it
| > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
inadvertant
| > consequences).
| >
| > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service REALLY
does,
what
| > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in order to
function
| > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help for
"them" and
| > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to lead
no-where
| > usefull.
| >
| > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance monitoring
service,
| > indexing and the like.
| >
| > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| >
| > | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need to know
your
| >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need are cpu -
| >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If you have
any
| >> problems finding this out then here
| > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware requirements
are
| > much
| >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much ram, say
128mbs,
| > XP
| >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
performance. I
| >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you Jimmy :)
| >> Chris C
| >> Chris
| >> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| >> >
| >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just created new
| > shortcut
| >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running so slow
(slow
| >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it
Click to expand...
acceptably
at
| >> 1024x768.
| >> > All other settings the same including under Properties DirectX
| >> > settings.
| >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
exaggerated,
| >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type games.
| >> >
| >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for the Radeon,
e.g.
| >> Cat
| >> > 4.3.
| >> >
| >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background so
wondering if
| >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually does
as
MS's
| > help
| >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in most cases.
| >> >
| >> >
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
J

Joshua Smith [MSFT]

I would just like to add that as far as DirectX goes there are defiantly
different 9X and NT files that get placed on the system. On rare occasions
games might have a .dll that fixes a specific problem for them that is in
their own game folder. If that file was determined at install time to be
placed in a Win9X environment and then you ran it under an NT environment I
wouldn't expect it to run well if at all.
The Program Files directory would be shared in your configuration. Again you
run the risk of an app placing a .dll specific to the OS running that isn't
what should be running under the other.
The last danger with running in this configuration is that sometimes apps
are hardcoded to place files to places like "c:\windows\system32" and
others. Should one of these apps place a file into your WindowsXP install
while you are booted to Windows 98 you would end up getting a 9X file in
your NT installation and Windows XP's System File Protection will not catch
the replacement because it won't be running. There are a lot of reasons why
things should work across Win9X and WinNT, but there are just as many
reasons why they won't.


Joshua Smith
DirectInput and OpenGL Test Labs
Microsoft
-----

Get Secure! www.microsoft.com/security

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights




pjp said:
Without going into all the other reasons I find the direction the design
of
Windows is heading objectionable (pay per use), the reality is ...

I still have need to use even old DOS communications programs for very
specialized hardware, e.g. custom embedded stuff and the like, writing
EPROM's etc.

Under Win9x these all work under NT kernel they don't and don't believe
they
can be made to.

Anthony Procissi said:
Hi Pjp,

What can one say to; "You'll notice I'm not even considering removing
98SE
and using only XP"?
You find no joy in using the task manager to kill a hung process? For me,
that was reason enough to never look back.

Given your level of experience I'm a bit perplexed by your animosity toward
the Win2k platform. Browse through chapter 2 of Inside Windows 2000 and read
about 9x's16-bit dino-code, processes free to stomp all over each others
memory, and how freely the kernel is called by anyone with it's number...
its shameful really... :)

XP asks a little more but gives it right back! Before you toss it in the
trash, and despite your arguments about how and why NFS should perform
cross-platform, you ought to at least try installing in on XP and if that
doesn't help, consider upgrading your graphics card if you're serious about
gaming. The Radeon 7000 series is getting a little dated... I understand it
works great for you on 98SE... but, something with a little more punch will
make you forget all about your beloved 98.... that is, unless you really do
love rebooting every time a user mode application hiccups... :)
--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
pjp said:
In my case, speed of the Internet has nothing to do with it as I'm on
dialup
in a rural area and never exceed 28.8 baud so never bother even attempting
to play anything of substance online.

I have just installed a dual-boot system running 98SE and XP pro. Even
using
the same version drivers for my Radeon, e.g. Cat 4.3 the latest out
"yesterday".

I found a few games don't mind at all installing under one OS and then
simply creating a shortcut to the same game in the other OS avoiding a
duplicate install. Presumably such games simply create their registry
entries as required. One of those games is Need For Speed : Underground
which I had been playing under 98SE for some time now. Also, presumably
regardless of the OS, the game installs the same files, e.g. none are
"optimized" for specific OS, that's DX's job.

In any case, under XP for every game I've tried so far I have to lower my
playing resolution by one "notch", e.g. 1280x1024 -> 1024x768 ->
800x600 ->
640x480. It also seems that the eye candy needs to be backed off slightly
to
match the same performance as under 98SE even after the res drop.

That's not what I expected and am still appraising if I should

1) bother keeping XP on at all
2) install games under 98SE and regular apps under XP
3) install everything under 98SE and treat XP as a toy to simply play with
and discard whenever.

You'll notice I'm not even considering removing 98SE and using only XP.

LOL! That's good, except - just for my own curiosity - just how much
does
one gain from doing these things? And who is around to ask question
after
question in the newsgroups in an attempt to solve an issue like when
someone
suddenly screams for help because can't install anything? They turned
off
Cryptographic Services because it was "recommended" and have forgotten or
don't remember to turn it back on.

To me, this is like people who over-clock hardware for what(?), rights to
saying they're burning up their CPU, RAM or graphics card? How does one
really tell that much "||" difference in speed, compared to that "| |"
much
in milliseconds? And for what(?) to play online games where it is the
speed
of the Internet, not how fast the machine will perform certain functions?

And I thought college basketball was the only March Madness. :cool:
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

message
I can't believe I'm going to dispute a statement made by the all knowing
Jimmy S... I might as well go after Chris H! :) However, the
"Disable
All"
button in MSConfig - Services will leave "Essential Services"
enabled.

You could use the Disable All button, reboot and run XP.

Please note: I have test machines for such things, and do not recommend
trying this at home. I did so because if the Disable All button caused
Windows to no longer operate we would need to address that.

Thanks,

--
-Anthony Procissi [MSFT]
US-Application Experience & Compatibility

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"Jimmy S." <Private> wrote in message
Hi pjp,

I echo Chris's caution. You should upgrade to a P4 instead of
tweaking.
You found one good trick already though, (run high) here's some
more...

USE THE FOLLOWING INFO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

I don't really want to provide a tweaking guide, however it's
clear that there's a demand, so I'll share some tricks I've used
as long as you promise to set a restore point right now. Is that
a fair deal? ;-) Here's how to use Windows XP System Restore:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gethelp/systemrestore.asp


I use these methods only for special games such as grudge matches.

A: Setup Hardware Profile for Gaming
Control Panel / System
Hardware Tab / Hardware Profiles button
Copy Profile 1 and rename it Gaming Profile
Leave Profile 1 at the top of the list
Set to Select the first profile in 5 seconds

B: Disable Services for Gaming.
Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services
For each service listed below do the following:
Right Click / Properties / Log On Tab
Click on Gaming Profile / click Disable Button
Click Apply but Do NOT disable for Profile 1

List of Services: Alerter / Automatic Updates / Computer Browser
Cryptographic Services (Will cause "Logo" Errors when installing
SP1
or
DX9)
Fast User Switching Compatibility / Help and Support / Messenger
Print Spooler / Remote Registry / Secondary Logon (Run as... will not
function)
System Restore Service / Task Scheduler / Terminal Services /
Themes
Upload Manager / VMWare Authorization Service (These services only
appear
if
you use VM Ware) / VMWare DHCP Service " " / VMWare NAT Service
" "
Windows Image Acquisition (I won't be scanning while playing) /
Windows
Time.

* You cannot expect to install games and use windows everyday with the
above
services disabled. Those are just safe services to disable *WHILE*
you're in
a game. After the games are over, reboot and use the original
Profile 1 again.

C: Disable Page File
Since I have 512 MB Ram I find it faster to use RAM than to page to
the HD.
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Performance Settings /
Advanced Tab
Virtual Memory Change / Select each drive / click No Paging

file and
click SET. ****If you do not click Set it will not
accept
your change.

* Once you're finished your games turn back on the System Managed
page
file!

D: Use XP's Firewall Instead of 3rd Party Firewalls
We've already disabled your firewall (Norton's, Zone Alarm,
etc.)
by
disabling
Startup programs in step D. Check your services using the
method
in
step A to
see if the firewall or antivirus program has services you should
disable, i.e. Zone
Alarm installs a True Vector service you can disable for the Gaming
Profile.

E: Improve Framerates by Lowering Game Eyecandy and Sound
I found that by setting my resolution in Halo to 800x600, and
lowering
the
visual effects, I was able to improve my framerate from 24 to 52
FPS!
:)
This is more improvement than any of the other tweaks provided.
Sound is something that you don't need. Only keep sound
settings
that
will
help keep you alive, for example to hear a tank rumbling near you.
Music and
the sound effects made when you fire your weapons are expensive ear
candy.

F: Set Performance Options for Best Performance
Control Panel / System / Advanced / Settings / Visual Effects
Adjust for best performance (remember to change it back
after
your
games).

G: Disable Startup Programs
Start / Run / type msconfig / Startup Tab / Click Disable all
button.
You will be prompted to restart, when it restarts you'll have 5
seconds to pick
Gaming Profile or it will default to Profile 1 instead.

WARNING - DO NOT CLICK THE SERVICES / DISABLE ALL BUTTON!
*Never touch the Services Tab in msconfig! It allows you to disable
ALL
services
for ALL profiles with the click of one button and Windows won't
startup
again!!!

Okay, so now I've shared some of the tweaks I've used on my own
system.
I
hope this information will be helpful, and if used properly help
you
pwn
your opps!

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S.
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my Zone.com / Gaming Helpsite: http://nibblesnbits.tk or Call /
Contact
MS Support at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=sz;en-us;top
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any
rights.
_________________________________________________________

| Have you tried, instead of "tweaking" what you might think is
necessary
in
| Services, to run the default? Indexing, for instance, when
turned
off
will
| actually stop some games in their tracks. It is there for a
purpose,
and
| that is to make things run smoother and faster. There are a couple
web
| sites and a PC magazine article which make recommendations to "speed
up" XP
| for gaming, but they don't tell the consequences - like turning off
| Cryptographic Services.
| --
| Chris H.
| Microsoft Windows MVP
| Associate Expert
| Expert Zone -
|
| | > XP Pro with integrated sp1 plus all criticals from Update site
applied.
| > Latest VIA 4-in-1;s applied as first install after OS up and
going.
| > DirectX9.0b, passes all DXDiag tests and there's "No Problem ..."
all
| > around.
| >
| > Tyan Trinity 400 S1854 motherboard
| > PIII at 733Mz (to spec)
| > 512 megs ram running at 133mz fsb (to spec)
| > Radeon 64 DDR VIVO (7200)
| > Xpert98 (2nd display multi-monitor)
| > two wd hd's, 15 & 40 gigs with plenty free space on each
| > Creative SB-PCI128 sound card
| >
| > 2 Logitech Rumblepads
| > 2 Logitch wheels (MOMO Force & Racing)
| >
| > Mustek flatbed scanner "Twain", (lpt port pass thru model)
| > Creative Webcam (also appears as a Twain scanner)
| > Fuji digital camera as webcam or Mass Storage Device
| >
| > 3 printers, 2 Epson inkjets and an old Canon laser
| >
| > Logitech mouse
| > Wacom pressure sensitive tablet
| >
| > Ethernet card connected to four other older 98SE pc's in-house
(TCP/IP and
| > Netbuie as protocols, including XP)
| > USR Robotics 56K external modem
| >
| > 2 self-powered external four port USB hubs for all the USB
devices.
Does
| > provide 500Ma spec to every port simultaneously, e.g. no attached
device
| > shows any kind of problem in use..
| >
| > The hardware seems stable an there was/is specific XP drivers for
it
all
| > (I
| > was surprised I found scanner driver). The ethernet is up and
running
with
| > printers and folders being shared as expected from both sides.
I
even
| > managed to get the Guest account to be able to use a proxy server
on
one
| > of
| > the other pc's to connect to the net after giving up in
frustration
at
| > it's
| > refusal to allow use of the dialup modem connection even though
it's
| > specified as "shared by all" by the "Admin" account that set it up
(Users
| > are ok and can use it). The only problem hardware wise is, I can't
get the
| > back speakers working off the sound card as there appears to be
only
XP's
| > built-in support for the card.
| >
| > This is the one thing I've found really makes a difference for
games
is,
| > use
| > batch files to start the game so you can elevate it's priority,
e.g.
"cmd
| > /c
| > start /High LinksLauncher.exe" is noticably faster (as I'd
expect).
| >
| > I feel the basic problem is background "tasks" as Performance
under
| > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows cpu bouncing from 2 to 13% continually (but
randomly in
| > magnitude). I've tried to determine exactly what all these various
| > services
| > do but when you try to research them it seems like the answer
becomes
a
| > circular reference and it's never really explained. In particular,
it's
| > undetermined what's going on in the background regarding the
ethernet.
| > There
| > seems to be a number of various services that might be doing some
type of
| > "polling" for shares or something but as they're not really
documented I
| > have no idea what one's I can turn off etc. at no risk to
basically
| > mucking
| > up what works now (the Guest account can connect to web using a
Proxy
| > server
| > running on one of the other pc's as it "refused" anything to do
with
the
| > dialup miodem connection). Basically, I'm very wary of blindly
changing
| > things under any version of Windows because as often as not
"un-changing"
| > it
| > doesn't bring the system back to what it was (e.g. unknown
inadvertant
| > consequences).
| >
| > For example, I have no idea what the "Alerter" service REALLY
does,
what
| > "other features" absolutely require it to be running in order
to
function
| > correctly nor what these "other services" also do. Ask help for
"them" and
| > you get another reference etc. which eventually seems to lead
no-where
| > usefull.
| >
| > I have turned off the obvious, e.g. disk performance monitoring
service,
| > indexing and the like.
| >
| > As usually MS's help isn't helpfull, just frustrating.
| >
| > | >> Hi, all depends upon your hardware specs, we really need to know
your
| >> hardware specs before we can give you advice. What we need are
cpu -
| >> type/speed. motherboard, ram - amount/type, video card. If you
have
any
| >> problems finding this out then here
| > http://www.aida32.hu/aida32-download.php
| >> is a good tool to use. Suffice to say that XP hardware
requirements
are
| > much
| >> higher than those of win98, therefore if you've not much ram, say
128mbs,
| > XP
| >> will really need twice that before you get reasonable game
performance. I
| >> expect Jimmy S will have more to say on this, over to you
Jimmy
:)
| >> Chris C
| >> Chris
| >> | >> > Just installed XP Pro as dual-boot with existing 98SE.
| >> >
| >> > Same game (NFS:U) running from same folder (e.g. just
created
new
| > shortcut
| >> > under XP) is basically unplayable under XP it's running so slow
(slow
| >> > motion) at 640x480 where-as under 98SE I can run it acceptably
at
| >> 1024x768.
| >> > All other settings the same including under Properties DirectX
| >> > settings.
| >> > Links 2003 and Flight Sim 2004 seem the same but not so
exaggerated,
| >> > probably because they're not high speed "action" type games.
| >> >
| >> > Is this typical? I'm running same revision drivers for the
Radeon,
e.g.
| >> Cat
| >> > 4.3.
| >> >
| >> > I'm hoping it's all the crap running in the background so
wondering if
| >> > there's any site(s) document what all that crap actually
does
as
MS's
| > help
| >> > doesn't even try to explain what they actually "do" in most
cases.
| >> >
| >> >
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 

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