Another day, more inexcusably stupid mistakes caused by Vista

[Adam Albright]

Maybe I should have titled this thread the Never Ending Story. Vista
is seriously flawed in its first retail release, badly broken in many
areas, buggy as hell and they claim it was tested extensively. I can
not and will no longer recommend this pile of crap to anybody. Surely
not to anybody that has more than a basic system. If you have a more
advanced system you will suffer long trying to get things to work and
likely in the end fail or be forced to compromise to make having
upgraded to Vista an expensive but useless experience unless you enjoy
slow torture.

As I've said previously I have several SATA hard drives, both internal
and external. They did work fine under XP Pro.

1. I have a state of art "Vista Ready" motherboard, a Gigabyte
GA-965P-DQ6.

2. I have already installed the latest Intel Storage Martix
XP/Vista combination IDE controllers and SATA controller drivers.

3. All the SATA drives are Seagate, a trusted and preferred brand and
nearly brand new, each between 300 and 750 GB in size.

As I've also said Vista works with these drives in IDE mode. In fact I
have suggested several times for people to put these drives in IDE
mode until Vista was up and running. Today I decided to restore BIOS
to SATA mode so my many hard drives work up to speed. That was a
mistake. The next hour was nothing but a cascading series of failure
after failure from both the Award BIOS and sadly again Vista.

Read in horror how truly dumb all the involved parties are. I blame
them all, Microsoft, Award BIOS, Intel and Gigabyte.

Read in horror how badly flawed this release of Windows is and how it
will drive you to the brink of sanity trying to get it do what it is
suppose to.

Here in detail is my latest misadventure with Vista:

1. I go to BIOS and change back to SATA mode.

2. I reboot and see the AHCI copyright notice.

3. I see the typical early BOOT phases and the BIOS
sees all the drives including the SATA ones on the SATA
controllers.

4. Boot fails, says can't find OS. I don't panic, seen this before
under XP. The problem and it is so stupid, is for some odd reason
you got to put SATA drives on the controllers one at a time, then
reboot, get into Windows, see if things are ok, shut down, add the
next one and repeat.

5. I pull out all but the first SATA drive and reboot. No more can't
find OS error, but once in Windows, it now is too stupid to see
the drive. OK fine, I'll look under Device Manager. No, the drive
isn't listed, but Vista did decide to add another instance of the
IDE controller, two lines, one each for channel 0 and 1. The
problem here is my MB doesn't have two sets of channels, it just
has a single IDE channel, 0 and 1. Vista now says I got two and of
course puts the yellow warning flag on them.

6. Now the real fun begins. Old time users of Windows knows one way
to clear hardware issues the Device Manager nags about is to
remove ALL the items in a particular category. So I try.

7. Vista being so totally brain dead don't let me. Instead it just
flashes, comes back and now I have 3 pair! I spend the next 15
minutes trying to get rid of these extrenous lies and finally
manage to get back down to just one extra pair.

8. Meanwhile Vista is going nuts. It keeps bringing up the found new
hardware window, shows a progress bar as it tries to add the
driver, then end up saying IDE channel failed. Now Vista is stuck
in endless loops where its now a game to see if I can delete the
bogus lines before Vista tries to add them back.

9. More wasted time and getting no where fast so I decide, the hell
with it. I manage to shut down then return to BIOS to put
everything back to IDE like it was. You would think that would
fix things. No way!

10. Hoping to avoid more errors, I first pulled all the drives
leaving only my boot C drive which is a ATA IDE drive.

11. I reboot and get into Windows and see Vista showing "found
new hardware", and my first SATA drive is back, but running in
IDE mode. Well, at least its running.

12. I restore my other internal SATA drives. Windows sees them.

13. I now try to turn on one of my external SATA drives. These
worked fine under IDE mode before in both XP and Vista. Not
any more! Now Vista don't see any external SATA drive regardless
what I do.

14. Obviously I'm not thrilled. I've wasted over a hour messing
around and I'm in worse shape then when I started in spite of
returning things to how they were.

15. My misery isn't over. Lucky for me my external SATA drives have
the option of running in USB 2.0 mode. Slower, but at least I
should be able to get to my data. I try, and I can.

16. Another problem due to brain dead Vista. Anyone that uses
external USB devices knows you should unmount them from the
task bar and wait till Windows says it is ok to remove. The
point here is if just shut off a drive that still may be trying to
read or write to a file you can corrupt that file or the whole
drive. So I click on the button. Vista says I can't turn it off
because it claims another application is accessing the drive.

17. Vista is lying again. I confirm I turned all applications off even
if they didn't access the external drive in question. Same stupid
message. The details are mind numbingly stupid. I have a older
external USB drive. It only uses USB 2.0. The damn thing isn't
on, but apparently Vista thinks it is and shows a line to turn
if off. BUT IT ISN'T ON and I know the new one isn't accessing
anything, yet Vista says I can't turn either off safely.

So now for my efforts instead of getting my SATA drives to work up to
speed I had to cripple them to run slower and now I never know if it
is safe or not to turn them off running is USB mode which presents
more bugs.

Damn Microsoft "software engineers" get you act together!

 

[Mayor of R'lyeh]

Maybe I should have titled this thread the Never Ending Story. Vista
is seriously flawed in its first retail release, badly broken in many
areas, buggy as hell and they claim it was tested extensively. I can
not and will no longer recommend this pile of crap to anybody. Surely
not to anybody that has more than a basic system. If you have a more
advanced system you will suffer long trying to get things to work and
likely in the end fail or be forced to compromise to make having
upgraded to Vista an expensive but useless experience unless you enjoy
slow torture.

As I've said previously I have several SATA hard drives, both internal
and external. They did work fine under XP Pro.

1. I have a state of art "Vista Ready" motherboard, a Gigabyte
GA-965P-DQ6.

2. I have already installed the latest Intel Storage Martix
XP/Vista combination IDE controllers and SATA controller drivers.

3. All the SATA drives are Seagate, a trusted and preferred brand and
nearly brand new, each between 300 and 750 GB in size.

As I've also said Vista works with these drives in IDE mode. In fact I
have suggested several times for people to put these drives in IDE
mode until Vista was up and running. Today I decided to restore BIOS
to SATA mode so my many hard drives work up to speed. That was a
mistake. The next hour was nothing but a cascading series of failure
after failure from both the Award BIOS and sadly again Vista.

Read in horror how truly dumb all the involved parties are. I blame
them all, Microsoft, Award BIOS, Intel and Gigabyte.

Read in horror how badly flawed this release of Windows is and how it
will drive you to the brink of sanity trying to get it do what it is
suppose to.

Here in detail is my latest misadventure with Vista:

1. I go to BIOS and change back to SATA mode.

2. I reboot and see the AHCI copyright notice.

3. I see the typical early BOOT phases and the BIOS
sees all the drives including the SATA ones on the SATA
controllers.

4. Boot fails, says can't find OS. I don't panic, seen this before
under XP. The problem and it is so stupid, is for some odd reason
you got to put SATA drives on the controllers one at a time, then
reboot, get into Windows, see if things are ok, shut down, add the
next one and repeat.

5. I pull out all but the first SATA drive and reboot. No more can't
find OS error, but once in Windows, it now is too stupid to see
the drive. OK fine, I'll look under Device Manager. No, the drive
isn't listed, but Vista did decide to add another instance of the
IDE controller, two lines, one each for channel 0 and 1. The
problem here is my MB doesn't have two sets of channels, it just
has a single IDE channel, 0 and 1. Vista now says I got two and of
course puts the yellow warning flag on them.

6. Now the real fun begins. Old time users of Windows knows one way
to clear hardware issues the Device Manager nags about is to
remove ALL the items in a particular category. So I try.

7. Vista being so totally brain dead don't let me. Instead it just
flashes, comes back and now I have 3 pair! I spend the next 15
minutes trying to get rid of these extrenous lies and finally
manage to get back down to just one extra pair.

8. Meanwhile Vista is going nuts. It keeps bringing up the found new
hardware window, shows a progress bar as it tries to add the
driver, then end up saying IDE channel failed. Now Vista is stuck
in endless loops where its now a game to see if I can delete the
bogus lines before Vista tries to add them back.

9. More wasted time and getting no where fast so I decide, the hell
with it. I manage to shut down then return to BIOS to put
everything back to IDE like it was. You would think that would
fix things. No way!

10. Hoping to avoid more errors, I first pulled all the drives
leaving only my boot C drive which is a ATA IDE drive.

11. I reboot and get into Windows and see Vista showing "found
new hardware", and my first SATA drive is back, but running in
IDE mode. Well, at least its running.

12. I restore my other internal SATA drives. Windows sees them.

13. I now try to turn on one of my external SATA drives. These
worked fine under IDE mode before in both XP and Vista. Not
any more! Now Vista don't see any external SATA drive regardless
what I do.

14. Obviously I'm not thrilled. I've wasted over a hour messing
around and I'm in worse shape then when I started in spite of
returning things to how they were.

15. My misery isn't over. Lucky for me my external SATA drives have
the option of running in USB 2.0 mode. Slower, but at least I
should be able to get to my data. I try, and I can.

16. Another problem due to brain dead Vista. Anyone that uses
external USB devices knows you should unmount them from the
task bar and wait till Windows says it is ok to remove. The
point here is if just shut off a drive that still may be trying to
read or write to a file you can corrupt that file or the whole
drive. So I click on the button. Vista says I can't turn it off
because it claims another application is accessing the drive.

17. Vista is lying again. I confirm I turned all applications off even
if they didn't access the external drive in question. Same stupid
message. The details are mind numbingly stupid. I have a older
external USB drive. It only uses USB 2.0. The damn thing isn't
on, but apparently Vista thinks it is and shows a line to turn
if off. BUT IT ISN'T ON and I know the new one isn't accessing
anything, yet Vista says I can't turn either off safely.

So now for my efforts instead of getting my SATA drives to work up to
speed I had to cripple them to run slower and now I never know if it
is safe or not to turn them off running is USB mode which presents
more bugs.

Damn Microsoft "software engineers" get you act together!

I totally agree with Albright!

Get a Mac and give up on Microsoft forever. THEY DO NOT understand
software development, so don't be fooled by them again!

You have been warned!

 

[BobS]

Adam,

Go here
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI0NywxLCxoZW50aGlzdWFzdA==
and you will see that this chipset on that mb has a problem with SATA
drives. There are 3 versions of that mb with rev 3.3 being the latest and
Nvidia drivers themselves have been real buggy lately.

Just may be a connection here.....

Bob S.

 

[Adam Albright]

Adam,

Go here
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI0NywxLCxoZW50aGlzdWFzdA==
and you will see that this chipset on that mb has a problem with SATA
drives. There are 3 versions of that mb with rev 3.3 being the latest and
Nvidia drivers themselves have been real buggy lately.

Just may be a connection here.....

Lucky me, I got a revision 1.0 board. Figures. Thanks for the info.

I've about had it... now for the first time since installing Vista I
try to use my Epson 900 photo printer to print a label directly on a
DVD and to nobody's surprise, it locks up the application (Acoustica
CD DVD Label Maker) and won't print anything. Worked fine in XP.

Lets see since installing Vista...

1. My SATA drives don't work properly.

2. Device Manager installs multiple versions of hardware
I don't have and I can't remove.

3. I can't turn off USB devices safely.

4. Devices that worked perfectly under XP and were NOT nagged
about by the Vista installer refuse to be seen by Windows.

5. I can no long print DVD labels directly on a DVD.

6. Media player can't play video a 2nd time without distorting
them to the extend they are unviewable in spite of playing
file the first time without problem.

Boy oh boy am I glad I "upgraded" to Vista!

 

[Ron Miller]

Maybe I should have titled this thread the Never Ending Story. Vista
is seriously flawed in its first retail release, badly broken in many
areas, buggy as hell and they claim it was tested extensively. I can
not and will no longer recommend this pile of crap to anybody. Surely
not to anybody that has more than a basic system. If you have a more
advanced system you will suffer long trying to get things to work and
likely in the end fail or be forced to compromise to make having
upgraded to Vista an expensive but useless experience unless you enjoy
slow torture.

As I've said previously I have several SATA hard drives, both internal
and external. They did work fine under XP Pro.

1. I have a state of art "Vista Ready" motherboard, a Gigabyte
GA-965P-DQ6.

2. I have already installed the latest Intel Storage Martix
XP/Vista combination IDE controllers and SATA controller drivers.

3. All the SATA drives are Seagate, a trusted and preferred brand and
nearly brand new, each between 300 and 750 GB in size.

As I've also said Vista works with these drives in IDE mode. In fact I
have suggested several times for people to put these drives in IDE
mode until Vista was up and running. Today I decided to restore BIOS
to SATA mode so my many hard drives work up to speed. That was a
mistake. The next hour was nothing but a cascading series of failure
after failure from both the Award BIOS and sadly again Vista.

Read in horror how truly dumb all the involved parties are. I blame
them all, Microsoft, Award BIOS, Intel and Gigabyte.

Read in horror how badly flawed this release of Windows is and how it
will drive you to the brink of sanity trying to get it do what it is
suppose to.

Here in detail is my latest misadventure with Vista:

1. I go to BIOS and change back to SATA mode.

2. I reboot and see the AHCI copyright notice.

3. I see the typical early BOOT phases and the BIOS
sees all the drives including the SATA ones on the SATA
controllers.

4. Boot fails, says can't find OS. I don't panic, seen this before
under XP. The problem and it is so stupid, is for some odd reason
you got to put SATA drives on the controllers one at a time, then
reboot, get into Windows, see if things are ok, shut down, add the
next one and repeat.

5. I pull out all but the first SATA drive and reboot. No more can't
find OS error, but once in Windows, it now is too stupid to see
the drive. OK fine, I'll look under Device Manager. No, the drive
isn't listed, but Vista did decide to add another instance of the
IDE controller, two lines, one each for channel 0 and 1. The
problem here is my MB doesn't have two sets of channels, it just
has a single IDE channel, 0 and 1. Vista now says I got two and of
course puts the yellow warning flag on them.

6. Now the real fun begins. Old time users of Windows knows one way
to clear hardware issues the Device Manager nags about is to
remove ALL the items in a particular category. So I try.

7. Vista being so totally brain dead don't let me. Instead it just
flashes, comes back and now I have 3 pair! I spend the next 15
minutes trying to get rid of these extrenous lies and finally
manage to get back down to just one extra pair.

8. Meanwhile Vista is going nuts. It keeps bringing up the found new
hardware window, shows a progress bar as it tries to add the
driver, then end up saying IDE channel failed. Now Vista is stuck
in endless loops where its now a game to see if I can delete the
bogus lines before Vista tries to add them back.

9. More wasted time and getting no where fast so I decide, the hell
with it. I manage to shut down then return to BIOS to put
everything back to IDE like it was. You would think that would
fix things. No way!

10. Hoping to avoid more errors, I first pulled all the drives
leaving only my boot C drive which is a ATA IDE drive.

11. I reboot and get into Windows and see Vista showing "found
new hardware", and my first SATA drive is back, but running in
IDE mode. Well, at least its running.

12. I restore my other internal SATA drives. Windows sees them.

13. I now try to turn on one of my external SATA drives. These
worked fine under IDE mode before in both XP and Vista. Not
any more! Now Vista don't see any external SATA drive regardless
what I do.

14. Obviously I'm not thrilled. I've wasted over a hour messing
around and I'm in worse shape then when I started in spite of
returning things to how they were.

15. My misery isn't over. Lucky for me my external SATA drives have
the option of running in USB 2.0 mode. Slower, but at least I
should be able to get to my data. I try, and I can.

16. Another problem due to brain dead Vista. Anyone that uses
external USB devices knows you should unmount them from the
task bar and wait till Windows says it is ok to remove. The
point here is if just shut off a drive that still may be trying to
read or write to a file you can corrupt that file or the whole
drive. So I click on the button. Vista says I can't turn it off
because it claims another application is accessing the drive.

17. Vista is lying again. I confirm I turned all applications off even
if they didn't access the external drive in question. Same stupid
message. The details are mind numbingly stupid. I have a older
external USB drive. It only uses USB 2.0. The damn thing isn't
on, but apparently Vista thinks it is and shows a line to turn
if off. BUT IT ISN'T ON and I know the new one isn't accessing
anything, yet Vista says I can't turn either off safely.

So now for my efforts instead of getting my SATA drives to work up to
speed I had to cripple them to run slower and now I never know if it
is safe or not to turn them off running is USB mode which presents
more bugs.

Damn Microsoft "software engineers" get you act together!

Nicely documented, Adam. I think it might be relevant to note here that
MS changed their Beta-testing program for Vista. For Windows 95, 98,
and XP, they allowed many of us be part of that program. This time,
most of us received no invitations to participate, and from the outside,
it seemed as though most of the beta testing was done by folks
participating in Microsoft's IT and development organizations. Is MS's
decision to exclude the rank-and-file user from pre-release testing
coming back to haunt them?
I installed Vista in a dual-boot setup, and, unlike you, I'm migrating
to it very slowly. I haven't noticed any show-stoppers yet, but you've
run across so many bugs that I've got to think that if MS had allowed
more Beta participants, Vista might be a lot further along than it is.

For once, I'm not specifically criticizing the dunderhead Mac user
("Mayor of R'lyeh) who chimed in with absolutely nothing useful to say.
After posts like yours, the Mac trolls are starting to seem a little
less inappropriate . . . but only a little.

 

[Guest]

I too have been playing "hard drive tag" with SATA and PATA drives, and have
a Case # on this issue with Microsoft....

I ended up with SATA internal system drive and an external PATA drive for
backup..

You might try to do a Complete PC Backup (new Vista feature), which works,
but the catch is that it will not RESTORE, as Vista will not recognize the
SATA drive, unless it is the only internal hard drive, thus the use of the
external hard drive.....

What if I owned a large business and backed up my hard drive in case of a
failure, and when the failure occured, I was not able to restore the drive
from the backup ??????????

So, I will only have one SATA internal drive until Microsoft works through
this issue....

Thought you all might like this info.....

 

[Rock]

I too have been playing "hard drive tag" with SATA and PATA drives, and
have
a Case # on this issue with Microsoft....

I ended up with SATA internal system drive and an external PATA drive for
backup..

You might try to do a Complete PC Backup (new Vista feature), which works,
but the catch is that it will not RESTORE, as Vista will not recognize the
SATA drive, unless it is the only internal hard drive, thus the use of the
external hard drive.....

What if I owned a large business and backed up my hard drive in case of a
failure, and when the failure occured, I was not able to restore the
drive
from the backup ??????????

So, I will only have one SATA internal drive until Microsoft works through
this issue....

Any backup/recovery solution should be tested to make sure you can actually
restore it under operation conditions. So even if you weren't having the
issues you have had the restore had to be tested.

 

[Guest]

You are right, backup and restore should be tested prior to the need to
restore... But I think it could also be said, should Microsoft had fully
tested this OS, the SATA issue would not be causing so much grief....

 

[BobS]

ever think about buying a Volkswagon...........? (if I said "Mac", the
trolls would be coming out of the woodwork.....;-)

You're just having early-adopter symptoms Adam, nothing that a brew or two
won't fix and you have plenty of company. But let's put some blame on the
other vendors too - and pressure to get their Vista compatible fixes
done/tested and out the door - real soon. I have emails out to several
already and the more that we complain and ask them for the fixes, the more
they're likely to get on it.

You're certainly savvy enough to know you were going to have some issues in
going with a new OS but right now - I think you're trying to do to much and
the frustration level is way up. It's only a computer, you'll survive -
take a break and go back to WinXP for awhile and give the little elves in
driver land time to do their magic.....

Bob S.

 

[Adam Albright]

ever think about buying a Volkswagon...........? (if I said "Mac", the
trolls would be coming out of the woodwork.....;-)

I got a Prius a couple months ago. Still can't get use to pressing a
button on the dash to put the thing in park or pushing another button
to start it. But I get over 40 MPG. <smile>

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

I am curious who "many of us" refers.

As for the Beta testers, I saw people from all computer experience levels,
nearly novices to users with computer experience going back long before
Microsoft was a dream and everything in between.
They came from many countries around the world.
Several degrees to those with little formal education and everything in
between.
It seems to me a more varied group would be difficult to impossible.

As for the numbers, rumor had it that the Beta started with 10,000 and
climbed rapidly with new testers added up to about 3 or 4 months before RTM

 

[BobS]

Just be glad it's not running Vista - huh......;-)

Bob S.

 

[Adam Albright]

Nicely documented, Adam. I think it might be relevant to note here that
MS changed their Beta-testing program for Vista. For Windows 95, 98,
and XP, they allowed many of us be part of that program. This time,
most of us received no invitations to participate, and from the outside,
it seemed as though most of the beta testing was done by folks
participating in Microsoft's IT and development organizations. Is MS's
decision to exclude the rank-and-file user from pre-release testing
coming back to haunt them?

Probably is going to both haunt them and hurt them. Way back long ago
I was a beta tester for Microsoft. Not Windows, some of their other
stuff. I doubt things have changed that much with regards to
listening. Even if beta testers find "bugs" that's no guarantee they
get fixed in time to update what goes out the door or if they ever
really get fixed. If anything the testing process seems to be getting
worse, not better. The word sloppy comes to mind. I remember
installing XP was relatively painless, for me at least.

Sadly Vista is a step back in both the ease in which it installs (or
doesn't), maybe several steps backward. Even more disappointing is so
many things just aren't ready once you get over the initial hurdle of
getting Vista running. That doesn't mean your journey is over, for
many it is just beginning with untold hours of searching for new
drivers or replacement software/hardware, more hours of trial and
error and growing frustration and cursing Microsoft under your breath
for not just dropping the ball, but losing it.

I could make a laundy list of who's who vendor wise and too many have
let me down and no doubt countless others. That list includes
Microsoft, Intel, Gigabyte and Epson already. Who knows who gets added
to the roll of shame tomorrow as I and legions of others discover more
and more issues that should have been addressed and simply weren't in
some mad rush to get Vista out the door.

 

[Adam Albright]

Just be glad it's not running Vista - huh......;-)

Good thing the Space Shuttle doesn't run on Windows either. ;-)

 

[Adam Albright]

I am curious who "many of us" refers.

As for the Beta testers, I saw people from all computer experience levels,
nearly novices to users with computer experience going back long before
Microsoft was a dream and everything in between.
They came from many countries around the world.
Several degrees to those with little formal education and everything in
between.
It seems to me a more varied group would be difficult to impossible.

As for the numbers, rumor had it that the Beta started with 10,000 and
climbed rapidly with new testers added up to about 3 or 4 months before RTM

In isn't how many beta testers you have, a handful would be enough if
they actually knew what they were doing. What REALLY gripes me is just
about every issue I wrote about points to Windows itself.

Device Manager is still clumsy and if anything DUMBER. If you try to
remove a device that isn't working so Windows can try to reinstall it,
then it should wait till the next reboot, not get stuck in a loop
adding more and more instances of the same device while you're trying
to get ahead of it to remove it.

Windows Explorer adds new details and allows you to click on a column
heading to sort but is too dumb (unless I missed something) to allow
you to ALSO arrange the columns in a manner YOU like as many
applications have for years.

The default viewer if activated automatically by a application such a
newsreader set to download a bunch of images like .JPG files will
mindlessly spawn new instances of itself until is crashes.

The entire new "security" scheme is a joke, poorly thought out and
more of nussiance then a feature.

Then there are the really weird things like Windows demanding you log
in to a dial up account when it knows you running broadband then
dumbly disabling Internet access to its own browser and nagging
stupidly you're offline when you're not, yet you still can't access
any web page but you can post to a newsgroup like this while its
telling your you're not connected.

None of these things have anything to do with drivers or third party
anything. They are all signs of classic Microsoft arrogance and sloppy
programing and far from good beta testing. Heck, such issues should
have been caught in ALPHA testing! That was years ago.

 

[quakechick]

ever think about buying a Volkswagon...........? (if I said "Mac", the
trolls would be coming out of the woodwork.....;-)

You're just having early-adopter symptoms Adam, nothing that a brew or
two won't fix and you have plenty of company. But let's put some blame
on the other vendors too - and pressure to get their Vista compatible
fixes done/tested and out the door - real soon. I have emails out to
several already and the more that we complain and ask them for the
fixes, the more they're likely to get on it.

You're certainly savvy enough to know you were going to have some issues
in going with a new OS but right now - I think you're trying to do to
much and the frustration level is way up. It's only a computer, you'll
survive - take a break and go back to WinXP for awhile and give the
little elves in driver land time to do their magic.....

Bob S.

have you tried installing xp compatible drivers

this has helped some people...

 

[Guest]

Adam,

Questions:
1) Why are the many Mac users Posting within these Forums repeatedly Post
the equal or very similar Post entirely bankrupt of morals and specifically
bankrupt for IT knowledge?
2) Appears too obvious the Mac users are seeking a genuine education
regarding Windows Vista by Posting such insane lame Post.
3) Apparently, since Windows Vista is the most IT advanced, and secure OS
within our world, the lonely Mac users demonstrate their jealously secondary
to the IT fact that the Mac inferior architecture is near 20-years behind
technology; remains absent online security, while remaining an elementary PnP
OS.
4) If it is true that a Mac will run any and all applications, that alone is
a self-testimony the Mac is the most in-secure OS within the market place.
The older applications are nothing other than hacker-happy applications
obviously making the Mac one absolutely in-secure OS!
5) Do you not comprehend that IT technology is advancing; not reverting to
ancient times?
6) Question, why is Windows Vista currently being purchased by large
corporations as well as individual end users in record setting numbers?
7) Yes, from coincidence, accidently, while 8-year old Vista was preparing
for RTM Release (during the Christmas Season) Mac experienced a sales surge.
Today, that has concluded, for obvious reasons, our world desires the most
state-of-the -art OS known as Windows Vista.
8) There is a reason the military, nuclear submarines, NASA, and too many
others are using Windows Vista; not using the technology inferior Mac.
9) If you were not fully aware for the superiority within Windows Vista
(compared to Mac), your presence within these Forums would not exist, other
than attempting learning the many benefits of Windows Vista user friendly
functionalities; and not spreading myth and rumor for self-promotion.
10) For your personal needs, simply, Windows Vista merely is to technology
advanced for your academic level.

Please continue your Posting while learning the many benefits from using
Windows Vista while repeatedly demonstrating your incredible deficient
knowledge.

By the way, make your response Post on Top; please do not remain a *bottom
feeder* making your responses on the Bottom; hence, strongly reflecting your
need to bottom feed sucking air just as Apple and Mac demonstrate.

 

[Guest]

Hello Mayor of R'lyeh,

Questions:
1) Why are the many Mac users Posting within these Forums as you repeatedly
Post the equal or very similar Post entirely bankrupt of morals and
specifically bankrupt for IT knowledge?
2) Appears too obvious the Mac users are seeking a genuine education
regarding Windows Vista by Posting such insane lame Post.
3) Apparently, since Windows Vista is the most IT advanced, and secure OS
within our world, the lonely Mac users demonstrate their jealously secondary
to the IT fact that the Mac inferior architecture is near 20-years behind
technology; remains absent online security, while remaining an elementary PnP
OS.
4) If it is true that a Mac will run any and all applications, that alone is
a self-testimony the Mac is the most in-secure OS within the market place.
The older applications are nothing other than hacker-happy applications
obviously making the Mac one absolutely in-secure OS!
5) Do you not comprehend that IT technology is advancing; not reverting to
ancient times?
6) Question, why is Windows Vista currently being purchased by large
corporations as well as individual end users in record setting numbers?
7) Yes, from coincidence, accidently, while 8-year old Vista was preparing
for RTM Release (during the Christmas Season) Mac experienced a sales surge.
Today, that has concluded, for obvious reasons, our world desires the most
state-of-the -art OS known as Windows Vista.
8) There is a reason the military, nuclear submarines, NASA, and too many
others are using Windows Vista; not using the technology inferior Mac.
9) If you were not fully aware for the superiority within Windows Vista
(compared to Mac), your presence within these Forums would not exist, other
than attempting learning the many benefits of Windows Vista user friendly
functionalities; and not spreading myth and rumor for self-promotion.
10) For your personal needs, simply, Windows Vista merely is to technology
advanced for your academic level.

By the way, make your response Post on Top; please do not remain a *bottom
feeder* making your responses on the Bottom; hence, strongly reflecting your
need to bottom feed sucking air just as Apple and Mac demonstrate.

Please continue your Posting while learning the many benefits from using
Windows Vista while repeatedly demonstrating your incredible deficient
knowledge.

 

[Ron Miller]

I am curious who "many of us" refers.

As for the Beta testers, I saw people from all computer experience
levels, nearly novices to users with computer experience going back long
before Microsoft was a dream and everything in between.
They came from many countries around the world.
Several degrees to those with little formal education and everything in
between.
It seems to me a more varied group would be difficult to impossible.

As for the numbers, rumor had it that the Beta started with 10,000 and
climbed rapidly with new testers added up to about 3 or 4 months before RTM

There were many, many people who beta tested the MS operating systems
before Vista who, in spite of diligent work on those prior tests,
received no invitation to participate this time. It's my impression
that, excluding the public beta, the number of beta testers this time
around was significantly smaller than on those prior tests. For a long
time testing seemed to be limited to MSDN and TechNet Plus subscribers
plus enterprise IT personnel selected by MS. Is that not true?
As I said, from the outside, it was difficult to know, but I just raise
the question about the size and composition of the Beta group because
it's beginning to appear that there are significantly more problems with
the Vista upgrade than there have been with previous MS operating systems.

I paraphrase rather than quote, but Scot Finnie, a well-known,
widely-respected, and well established PC journalist, has publicly
stated that he's switched to a Mac for his main work computer
(http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/88.htm) because he's lost faith in MS's
ability to address the concerns and needs of the rank and file customer
( http://tinyurl.com/34lwcx ). Whereas he thinks that MS was previously
devoted to finding the best way to accomplish tasks and make the PC the
best tool for work and communication in the office and home, he believes
that they're now concerned with but two things: (1) acceptance by "the
Enterprise" and (2) avoiding the perception that they're not concerned
with making the OS secure.

Might not the severe [by prior standards] restriction on the number of
beta testers be a manifestation of this paradigm shift Finnie perceives?
I'm just asking. Could his observations explain why there is less
enthusiasm for Vista than for any prior MS OS release? Could listening
to more average customers during the beta have prevented some of the
glaring problems we see listed here? Just asking.

 

[Adam Albright]

I am curious who "many of us" refers.

As for the Beta testers, I saw people from all computer experience
levels, nearly novices to users with computer experience going back long
before Microsoft was a dream and everything in between.
They came from many countries around the world.
Several degrees to those with little formal education and everything in
between.
It seems to me a more varied group would be difficult to impossible.

As for the numbers, rumor had it that the Beta started with 10,000 and
climbed rapidly with new testers added up to about 3 or 4 months before RTM

There were many, many people who beta tested the MS operating systems
before Vista who, in spite of diligent work on those prior tests,
received no invitation to participate this time. It's my impression
that, excluding the public beta, the number of beta testers this time
around was significantly smaller than on those prior tests. For a long
time testing seemed to be limited to MSDN and TechNet Plus subscribers
plus enterprise IT personnel selected by MS. Is that not true?
As I said, from the outside, it was difficult to know, but I just raise
the question about the size and composition of the Beta group because
it's beginning to appear that there are significantly more problems with
the Vista upgrade than there have been with previous MS operating systems.

I paraphrase rather than quote, but Scot Finnie, a well-known,
widely-respected, and well established PC journalist, has publicly
stated that he's switched to a Mac for his main work computer
(http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/88.htm) because he's lost faith in MS's
ability to address the concerns and needs of the rank and file customer
( http://tinyurl.com/34lwcx ). Whereas he thinks that MS was previously
devoted to finding the best way to accomplish tasks and make the PC the
best tool for work and communication in the office and home, he believes
that they're now concerned with but two things: (1) acceptance by "the
Enterprise" and (2) avoiding the perception that they're not concerned
with making the OS secure.

Might not the severe [by prior standards] restriction on the number of
beta testers be a manifestation of this paradigm shift Finnie perceives?
I'm just asking. Could his observations explain why there is less
enthusiasm for Vista than for any prior MS OS release? Could listening
to more average customers during the beta have prevented some of the
glaring problems we see listed here? Just asking.

Well this long time Windows user who is no dummy when it comes to
Windows and likely has more experience that 90% of the posters here
has about had it with Windows too.