Drive puzzle

[KenK]

I have two internal IDE drives, with 59 & 29G free, all the system will
handle. An external IDE drive though a IDE/SATA to USB adapter, with 93G
data on it. I have an empty 250G SATA drive.

I want to switch the external drive from IDE to SATA to free up the IDE
as a spare for the two internal IDE drives.

The problem is getting the data on the IDE external to the SATA, There's
not enough room on the two internal drives to store it temporarily.
Unless I switch the external drive several times to move the data a bit
at a time I see no way to do this.

Anything I am overlooking? What I need is another SATA to USB or IDE to
USB adapter but I don't have one and don't particularly want to spend $30
or more for one for likely only one use. I could probably find a new IDE
drive for about that much.

TIA

 

[KenK]

I have two internal IDE drives, with 59 & 29G free, all the system
will handle. An external IDE drive though a IDE/SATA to USB adapter,
with 93G data on it. I have an empty 250G SATA drive.

I want to switch the external drive from IDE to SATA to free up the
IDE as a spare for the two internal IDE drives.

The problem is getting the data on the IDE external to the SATA,
There's not enough room on the two internal drives to store it
temporarily. Unless I switch the external drive several times to move
the data a bit at a time I see no way to do this.

Anything I am overlooking? What I need is another SATA to USB or IDE
to USB adapter but I don't have one and don't particularly want to
spend $30 or more for one for likely only one use. I could probably
find a new IDE drive for about that much.

TIA

Just had a thought. Back up the external 93G drive data to the 59G free
internal drive with Ntbackup - AFAIK it compresses. Then switch external
drives and restore. Should work but a slow process. Any better ideas? No
$$$ though, and I'm a cheapskate - about some things. <g>

TIA

 

[Paul]

I have two internal IDE drives, with 59 & 29G free, all the system will
handle. An external IDE drive though a IDE/SATA to USB adapter, with 93G
data on it. I have an empty 250G SATA drive.

I want to switch the external drive from IDE to SATA to free up the IDE
as a spare for the two internal IDE drives.

The problem is getting the data on the IDE external to the SATA, There's
not enough room on the two internal drives to store it temporarily.
Unless I switch the external drive several times to move the data a bit
at a time I see no way to do this.

Anything I am overlooking? What I need is another SATA to USB or IDE to
USB adapter but I don't have one and don't particularly want to spend $30
or more for one for likely only one use. I could probably find a new IDE
drive for about that much.

TIA

Find a computer that has IDE and SATA, and do the copy there ?

Would a local computer recycler have an old P4 system you could
borrow for a day ? Even if it came with no hard drive of its own,
you could connect a CD drive, boot a Linux LiveCD, and do the
disk image transfer there. Just use "dd" for example, and
transfer the old drive, sector by sector. No fancy software needed.

Then, use a free partition manager, to resize the last partition,
to expand and make all the additional space available on the larger
disk.

*******

This is about the cheapest way you can do USB2 to SATA protocol.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270238

It comes with no power source for the disk drive. You buy a Molex 1x4
to PCI Express 15 pin power cable, and that powers the disk. Plug this
adapter into the back of the computer. Run an ESATA to SATA cable, to the
SATA drive 7 pin data connector. The SATA drive can sit anywhere
that the cable length allows (like, next to the computer).

The reviews for a *lot* of adapter solutions, note issues with the
things. The era of buying "good" adapters has past, and there's a
lot of crap floating around for sale. The cheapest solution may not
be the best solution.

One of those little adapters, someone notes that it melted his
ESATA cable connector. Um... what can I say ? :-(

My favorite example of crappy adapters, was someone was selling
SATA to IDE converters for $1 each. The catch ? Zero percent of
them were functional. All of them were dead. What a deal :-(
Something for your keychain perhaps. Or target practice at
your cottage back lot (when you run out of DVDs to shoot).

Paul

 

[Paul]

Just had a thought. Back up the external 93G drive data to the 59G free
internal drive with Ntbackup - AFAIK it compresses. Then switch external
drives and restore. Should work but a slow process. Any better ideas? No
$$$ though, and I'm a cheapskate - about some things. <g>

TIA

How well that's going to work, will depend on how compressible the data is.
For example, a movie is already compressed about 100:1, and I would
not expect the average data compressor to do anything with that (zero
improvement). PDF files are generally already compressed to a large
extent. On the other hand, text files would compress well.

There's a difference in both compressed archive size, and runtime,
between GZIP and 7ZIP type archives. Depending on the situation,
you could pipeline two programs, to produce the smallest output.
I've done that from a Linux LiveCD, as an example, Then, you have
to reverse the pipeline to undo it later. Being a cheap-skate, if
the copy took an entire day, you wouldn't care The largest
operation of that type I've attempted, was a 500GB drive through
a 7ZIP compression step, which took an entire week. YMMV.

In addition to the fast (GZIP) versus the good (7ZIP) compressors,
they also differ in their ability to handle a file tree, versus
only handling solid block archives (i.e. a single file). So some
of the compressors, they don't know how to archive a folder of
stuff. In which case, you use a tool that *does* understand how
to archive a file, then, turn off the compression feature on it.

winzip (compression disabled ) --> 7ZIP (compress a single file) --> compressed archive

So if you locate an "extremely good" compressor, and it doesn't
zip up directories for you, that's a way to fix it. Find a tool
that does zip up the directories you want, turn off the compression
(run in "store" mode), then pipe that into the extremely good
compressor.

I expect you'll be able to cook up a solution yourself, along
those lines. There's a million ways to do it, and the person
asking these questions usually uncovers a better answer than I
can dream up.

*******

I've even transferred entire disks, over FTP, to a second computer.
In this example, a sector by sector copy of a raw disk drive,
is pushed to another computer, to be stored as a 70GB file "sda".
There's no compression in this example, but I bet you could
arrange it. Sometimes, my network connections on the home
network, are faster than some of my other storage devices
(like, copy to a USB2 hard drive, move drive to second
computer, copy off it). I turn off the FTP server
on the destination computer, once the transfer is complete.

ftp> put "|dd if=/dev/sda bs=73728" sda

So that demonstrates, how an FTP program, can have data
pipelined from a command, used to send a "file" to another
computer.

Paul

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

KenK wrote: []

Anything I am overlooking? What I need is another SATA to USB or IDE
to USB adapter but I don't have one and don't particularly want to
spend $30 or more for one for likely only one use. I could probably
find a new IDE drive for about that much.

(I take it that's for an enclosure.)
[]

This is about the cheapest way you can do USB2 to SATA protocol.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270238

It comes with no power source for the disk drive. You buy a Molex 1x4

[]
$9.99, I see.

Putting USB to SATA into ebay.com gets http://bit.ly/12C0jkz, which
includes on the first page several offerings around $7.95 down to $6.99,
which include - the first one for example - the USB to SATA lump, a SATA
lead, a power lead, a power supply, and a mains lead (line cord) for the
power supply. That one http://bit.ly/12C0Kvn is from somewhere in USA
(NJ). Or something like the newegg one for $4.96. Or, indeed, a USB to
SATA without power supply for $1 - I share your suspicion that that will
be dud (-:!

I bought such for £5 at a computer fair years ago (long enough ago that
it didn't included SATA - I forgot to say most of the above have EIDE
too, both laptop and desktop connectors); it came in a reasonable box
with the mains power supply (and possibly a small CD, I don't remember
as I never needed it); it has worked OK for me the few times I've used
it.

 

[Paul]

KenK wrote: []

Anything I am overlooking? What I need is another SATA to USB or IDE
to USB adapter but I don't have one and don't particularly want to
spend $30 or more for one for likely only one use. I could probably
find a new IDE drive for about that much.

(I take it that's for an enclosure.)
[]

This is about the cheapest way you can do USB2 to SATA protocol.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270238

It comes with no power source for the disk drive. You buy a Molex 1x4

[]
$9.99, I see.

Putting USB to SATA into ebay.com gets http://bit.ly/12C0jkz, which
includes on the first page several offerings around $7.95 down to $6.99,
which include - the first one for example - the USB to SATA lump, a SATA
lead, a power lead, a power supply, and a mains lead (line cord) for the
power supply. That one http://bit.ly/12C0Kvn is from somewhere in USA
(NJ). Or something like the newegg one for $4.96. Or, indeed, a USB to
SATA without power supply for $1 - I share your suspicion that that will
be dud (-:!

I bought such for £5 at a computer fair years ago (long enough ago that
it didn't included SATA - I forgot to say most of the above have EIDE
too, both laptop and desktop connectors); it came in a reasonable box
with the mains power supply (and possibly a small CD, I don't remember
as I never needed it); it has worked OK for me the few times I've used it.

The problem with some of the USB2 to IDE3.5/IDE2.5/SATA, is the power supply
is actually defective. And has been known to damage stuff. There was a rash of
reports on Newegg about it. It wasn't always like that.

As for prices, yes, you can go to Ebay, and get dinged on shipping. Some
of the sellers will load up on the shipping end of things.

What I'm generally doing, when I provide a link, is showing a sample
of what one looks like. (In this case, the idea being, a protocol converter
without power supply, should be cheaper than a protocol converter with
power supply. The ATX supply in the computer in this case, providing
the source of power instead.) If you think your Uncle Fred has it for less,
well, go for it. That's what being a consumer is all about.

Given the dodgy nature of some of this kind of electronics,
I think I'd test a new purchase, with a drive you don't care
about, first. Just to see if anything smokes. I have a 4GB IDE
drive, perfect for that sort of thing (smoke test).

Paul

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

KenK wrote: []
Anything I am overlooking? What I need is another SATA to USB or
IDE to USB adapter but I don't have one and don't particularly
want to spend $30 or more for one for likely only one use. I could
probably find a new IDE drive for about that much.

(I take it that's for an enclosure.)
[]

This is about the cheapest way you can do USB2 to SATA protocol.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270238

It comes with no power source for the disk drive. You buy a Molex 1x4

[]
$9.99, I see.
Putting USB to SATA into ebay.com gets http://bit.ly/12C0jkz, which
includes on the first page several offerings around $7.95 down to
$6.99, which include - the first one for example - the USB to SATA
lump, a SATA lead, a power lead, a power supply, and a mains lead
(line cord) for the power supply. That one http://bit.ly/12C0Kvn is
from somewhere in USA (NJ). Or something like the newegg one for
$4.96. Or, indeed, a USB to SATA without power supply for $1 - I
share your suspicion that that will be dud (-:!
I bought such for £5 at a computer fair years ago (long enough ago
that it didn't included SATA - I forgot to say most of the above have
EIDE too, both laptop and desktop connectors); it came in a
reasonable box with the mains power supply (and possibly a small CD,
I don't remember as I never needed it); it has worked OK for me the
few times I've used it.

The problem with some of the USB2 to IDE3.5/IDE2.5/SATA, is the power supply
is actually defective. And has been known to damage stuff. There was a rash of
reports on Newegg about it. It wasn't always like that.[/QUOTE]

Ah, sorry, I didn't know that. The one I have is fine.

As for prices, yes, you can go to Ebay, and get dinged on shipping. Some
of the sellers will load up on the shipping end of things.

Again, I didn't know - I, obviously, normally use ebay.co.uk, on which
the carriage charge is always clearly shown (even on just the listings
pages). If it's not the case on ebay.com, I didn't know that.

What I'm generally doing, when I provide a link, is showing a sample
of what one looks like. (In this case, the idea being, a protocol converter
without power supply, should be cheaper than a protocol converter with
power supply. The ATX supply in the computer in this case, providing

Indeed. It was also a neat thing you showed; most of the ones I have in
mind are chunky things with the two IDE connectors on either side (and,
nowadays, a SATA one in the middle).

the source of power instead.) If you think your Uncle Fred has it for less,
well, go for it. That's what being a consumer is all about.

Given the dodgy nature of some of this kind of electronics,
I think I'd test a new purchase, with a drive you don't care
about, first. Just to see if anything smokes. I have a 4GB IDE
drive, perfect for that sort of thing (smoke test).

Sounds good policy.

 

[KenK]

I need to reread this and digest it but I have three quick comments
below:

How well that's going to work, will depend on how compressible the
data is.

Didn't think of that. Much of the data is drive backups. So I'd gain
nothing. Thanks for waking me up!

For example, a movie is already compressed about 100:1, and I
would not expect the average data compressor to do anything with that
(zero improvement). PDF files are generally already compressed to a
large extent. On the other hand, text files would compress well.

There's a difference in both compressed archive size, and runtime,
between GZIP and 7ZIP type archives. Depending on the situation,
you could pipeline two programs, to produce the smallest output.
I've done that from a Linux LiveCD, as an example, Then, you have
to reverse the pipeline to undo it later. Being a cheap-skate, if
the copy took an entire day, you wouldn't care The largest
operation of that type I've attempted, was a 500GB drive through
a 7ZIP compression step, which took an entire week. YMMV.

In addition to the fast (GZIP) versus the good (7ZIP) compressors,
they also differ in their ability to handle a file tree, versus
only handling solid block archives (i.e. a single file). So some
of the compressors, they don't know how to archive a folder of
stuff. In which case, you use a tool that *does* understand how
to archive a file, then, turn off the compression feature on it.

winzip (compression disabled ) --> 7ZIP (compress a single file)
--> compressed archive

So if you locate an "extremely good" compressor, and it doesn't
zip up directories for you, that's a way to fix it. Find a tool
that does zip up the directories you want, turn off the compression
(run in "store" mode), then pipe that into the extremely good
compressor.

I expect you'll be able to cook up a solution yourself, along
those lines. There's a million ways to do it, and the person
asking these questions usually uncovers a better answer than I
can dream up.

I need to keep thinking about this.

*******

I've even transferred entire disks, over FTP, to a second computer.

That brought my hopes up. But I just checked and only about 25 G
available there. Too bad.