K
kony
Probably more appropriate for public consumption than what
I"ll be muttering when I read it, let alone a year or two
later when non-affiliated MS zealots grace us with their
(re)interpretations of it.
Probably more appropriate for public consumption than what
I"ll be muttering when I read it, let alone a year or two
later when non-affiliated MS zealots grace us with their
(re)interpretations of it.
F
Fakename
So you'll reuse the case. That leaves a bunch of old parts left over
that are harder to sell than a working computer. What does that save?
that are harder to sell than a working computer. What does that save?
K
kony
It saves $100, less if you only buy junk parts but junk has
it's own risks beyond long-term viability for reuse. How
much time would you put into selling parts? How much is
that time worth? Lots of old boxes never get sold. If you
didn't reuse the case it's just another waste of $.
Maybe you're not the person it's the ideal plan for, but
others DO know their needs, goals, etc, well enough to make
that choice.
F
Fakename
$100 saved? Not likely. Most people don't spend money on fancy cases
if don't have to. So the cost of a new case is around $30-50. I'm in
Canada and if you want me to I can plaster my next response with links
to cases, with power supply's, for way less than $100, available locally.
I think it's easier to sell a whole/working PC than parts. So you're
going to have a pile of parts laying around too. If you sell them piece
by piece you'll probably spend more time selling them than you would a
working tower. Time has a value too.
$100 saved? Not likely. You might save a little bit of cash, but it
will be a lot more trouble. For most users out there it's not worth it.
if don't have to. So the cost of a new case is around $30-50. I'm in
Canada and if you want me to I can plaster my next response with links
to cases, with power supply's, for way less than $100, available locally.
I think it's easier to sell a whole/working PC than parts. So you're
going to have a pile of parts laying around too. If you sell them piece
by piece you'll probably spend more time selling them than you would a
working tower. Time has a value too.
$100 saved? Not likely. You might save a little bit of cash, but it
will be a lot more trouble. For most users out there it's not worth it.
K
kony
Yes you can buy junk parts in Canada as well as elsewhere.
Exactly my point!
It's a poor compromise to buy crap then keep throwing it
away or rebuying similar crap instead of nice case. Perhaps
a few years ago you could build a decent system with a
cheaper case, but anything fairly higher-end these days will
make it prudent to spend at least $60 on the power supply
alone if not more.
Perhaps it is for you. Nobody else is in your shoes so do
whatever works best for _you_.
Who said I needed to sell all those little pieces? Most of
'em don't have much value anyway. Directron is selling
whole older systems for $69 plus shipping. Additionally,
it's often good to have some spare parts around for
troubleshooting, or minimizing downtime if/when a system
fails.
I'm really sorry you don't agree but frankly I don't care
one way or the other. You must be building low-end boxes
and not building very many at that, else a source of spare
parts would be an obvious asset.
So, year after year you never have a good system. Fine by
me.
J
jona
Donald McTrevor said:
LOL.
I started with a 286 and then skipped the following:
386, P1 and P3. The 'time' is not yet right to update
up from my current P4, 2.4 .... I think.
C
CBFalconer
jona said:
I just went from a 486/80 64 MB to a P3/450 128 MB. The cost was
minimal, the speedup about 10 to 20, and noticeable.
The 486is still here for backup and to run the 5 inch floppies. The only
thing I really need now is ECC memory at a reasonable price.
F
Fakename
The quality of the parts has little to nothing to do with the point I'm
making. The most expensive, high quality computer parts will still be
obselete in 3-5 years. And when that happens it will be cheaper,
overall, to purchase a new machine than to upgrade all of the parts.
making. The most expensive, high quality computer parts will still be
obselete in 3-5 years. And when that happens it will be cheaper,
overall, to purchase a new machine than to upgrade all of the parts.
K
kony
Yes I'm aware of your argument, and it only files if one is
buying OEM systems. Otherwise it completely defies logic to
think that buying ALL the parts is cheaper than buying (ALL
the parts) - (what you already have).
F
Fakename
Well then you will agree that my advice is the most prudent course of
action for the majority of users because the majority of users buy OEM
computers, right?
action for the majority of users because the majority of users buy OEM
computers, right?
K
kony
Most of the time, yes. Then again, it's still not
necessarily so, depending on the variables of the system.
However such a task would typically be less prudent for the
hands-off OEM typical buyers, as they're generally not as
aware of the issues going into construction nor as likely to
realize just how standard (or not) that OEM box is.
F
Fakename
I'm going to take that as a yes.
K
kony
So long as you're a happy camper?
D
Donald McTrevor
Ardent said:
Hi,
This is a bit of a late response but here is my motherboard which I found
some time ago after much searching.
http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/850.htm
*********************
This motherboard can accommodate the following CPUs:
Intel P54C/P55C: 75 - 233 MHz
Cyrix 6X86/6X86L, PR120+ - PR166+
Cyrix 6X86MX, PR133+ - PR233+
Cyrix MII: 266 - 300 MHz
IDT C6: 150 - 200 MHz
AMD K5
AMD K6: 266 MHz
AMD K6-2: 300 - 333 MHz
****************************
I have the Cyrix MII 300 so it looks lilke the 'end of the road' for
my mobo, although I guess it could take the AMD K6 333Mhz,
but if that is just an 11% increase.
Well it says Cyrix MII 300 in the manual but on control panel/system
it says 6X86MX(tm).
Anyway using a utility called AIDA32 it says
"CPU Type Cyrix 6x86MX/MII, 225 MHz PR300"
so I am a little unsure as to precisely what I have got as I find it
a bit confusing, perhaps some wise bod could put me straight as
to what I have got and whether there is a worthwhile upgrade
for me.
I am thinking that if I have a 225Mhz CPU then the AMD K6-2 333Mhz
might be a worthwhile upgrade? Its about 50% faster CPU speed anyway
which I think would be worthwhile as I expect AMD K6 processors are
ten a penny on ebay.
Anyway here is the rest of the info from the AIDA32 program, but this
bit "CPU Manufacturer
Company Name VIA Technologies, Inc.
Product Information http://www.via.com.tw/en/viac3/c3.jsp"
adds more confusion cos it says its a VIA ????
Anyway I will report back later with more info, I am going to have
a look at the jumper settings which should be helpful and I will
also try and get a look at the CPU which may be a problem as I think
there is a big fan/cooler stuck on top of it and I am not sure if I will
be able to take it off, or more importantly put it back on again!!!
Any help much appreciated!!
Here are some links I was looking at but I am not sure which
processor is mine, there is not much info on them there either
for the Cyrix but there are benchmarks ratings for the AMD so
I can't compare the easilly.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/CPU.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/6x86/index.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/MII/index.html
********* Rest of AIDA32 info **************
CPU Properties
CPU Type Cyrix 6x86MX/MII, 225 MHz PR300
L1 Cache 64 KB
L2 Cache 0
CPU Physical Info
Package Type 296 Pin PGA
Package Size 4.95 cm x 4.95 cm
Transistors 6.5 million
Process Technology 5M, 0.35 um, CMOS
Die Size 197 mm2
Core Voltage 2.9 V
I/O Voltage 3.3 V
Typical Power 10.6 - 18.3 W (depending on clock speed)
Maximum Power 17.6 - 27.9 W (depending on clock speed)
CPU Manufacturer
Company Name VIA Technologies, Inc.
Product Information http://www.via.com.tw/en/viac3/c3.jsp
CPU Utilization
CPU #1 6 %
Problems & Suggestions
Problem No CPU L2 cache found. This may cause performance penalty.
********* Rest of AIDA32 info END **************
D
Donald McTrevor
Here is some info I found which may or may not make things clearer!!
I am trying to compare the cyrix MII with theAMD K6 but I am finding
it hard to find the info, seems the Cyrix may be faster at the same CPU
speed.
Very confusing.
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...gen.htm+Cyrix+6x86MX/MII,+225+MHz+PR300&hl=en
Cyrix 6X86MX (MII)
Cyrix also has a high performance chip, placed between 5th and 6th
generation. It was announced as M2, but introduced on May 30, 1997 the name
became 6X86MX. Later it has been named MII again. There have always been
some confusion about the identification of the Cyrix CPUs.
This 6X86MX chip is compatible with the Pentium MMX. This gives additional
possibilities to assemble PCs on ordinary Socket 7 motherboards.
The 6X86MX has 64 KB internal L1 cache, which is very impressive. Cyrix also
utilize technologies which are not found in Pentium MMX. These chips are
named to compare them with genuine Pentiums, although their internal clock
speed is lower than corresponding Intel processors.
The 6x86MX is unique compared to the other 6. generation CPUs (Pentium II
and Pro and K6) since it does not work upon a RISC kernel. 6x86MX executes
the original CISC instructions as does the Pentium MMX.
The 6x86MX has plenty of internal registers:
CPU Number of 32 bit
CPU registers
Pentium MMX 8
6x86MX 32
Pentium Pro 40
K6 48
The 6x86MX has - as all processors from Cyrix - a problem concerning the FPU
unit. However, using standard office applications, this is of no concern.
6X86MX Internal speed External speed
PR166 150 MHz 60 MHz
PR200 166 MHz 66 MHz
PR233 188 MHz 75 MHz
PR266 225 MHz 75 MHz
PR300 233 MHz 66 MHz
PR333 255 MHz 83 MHz
PR350 300 MHz 100 MHz
The 6X86MX is quite a powerful chip - on the paper. However I do not think,
that they always sell that well. There are problems with the supply of them,
and also the system bus speed causes troubles. It is difficult to find
motherboards that accepts these speeds. Hopefully this will change. They
also lack good FPU and MMX performance, and they do not incorporate the
3DNow! technology.
It is evident that Cyrix intends to continue this line of processors, and
this definitely is a positive trend. Intel gets competition, and it keeps
the well tested and inexpensive Socket 7 motherboards in the market.
The 6x86MX processor is produced by National/Cyrix as well as by IBM. The
architecture is the same, but the chips are built at different plants.
On April 14, 1998 the Cyrix MII (M-two) version was launched. From what I
understand it is exactly the same chip as the 6X86MX just running at higher
clock frequencies.
The top models were in June 1998:
CPU Cyrix MII/300 IBM PR333
Technology 0.35 micron Semi 0.25 micron
Possible clock
speeds 3.5 X 66 MHz = 233 MHz
3.0 X 75 MHz = 225 MHz 4.0 X 66 MHz = 266 MHz
3,5 X 75 MHz = 263 MHz
3.0 X 83 MHz = 250 MHz
IBM uses a new technology for their PR333 chip. It is patented and called
Flip-Chip. The die is soldered directly to the ceramic casing and this
causes less induction. IBM is preparing for true 0.25 micron processing
technology later this year, which will increase the external clock speed to
100 MHz.
Later we shall see the next Cyrix with IBM's copper technology, which will
give a new performance boost. They expect PR350 and PR400 models before 1999
using the Super7 motherboard standards.
In 1999 we should have the new 3rd generation of the 6X86MX (code name
Jalapeno). This CPU will be named MXi, and it will come in PR350 and PR400
flavors. The MXi is Socket 7 compatible, but it has an improved core running
a 133 MHz system bus. It also should include new 3D instructions (3DNow!)
and improved FPU..
Later Cyrix probably will build Pentium II compatible CPUs using the Slot 1
design, which they have license to produce.
I am trying to compare the cyrix MII with theAMD K6 but I am finding
it hard to find the info, seems the Cyrix may be faster at the same CPU
speed.
Very confusing.
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...gen.htm+Cyrix+6x86MX/MII,+225+MHz+PR300&hl=en
Cyrix 6X86MX (MII)
Cyrix also has a high performance chip, placed between 5th and 6th
generation. It was announced as M2, but introduced on May 30, 1997 the name
became 6X86MX. Later it has been named MII again. There have always been
some confusion about the identification of the Cyrix CPUs.
This 6X86MX chip is compatible with the Pentium MMX. This gives additional
possibilities to assemble PCs on ordinary Socket 7 motherboards.
The 6X86MX has 64 KB internal L1 cache, which is very impressive. Cyrix also
utilize technologies which are not found in Pentium MMX. These chips are
named to compare them with genuine Pentiums, although their internal clock
speed is lower than corresponding Intel processors.
The 6x86MX is unique compared to the other 6. generation CPUs (Pentium II
and Pro and K6) since it does not work upon a RISC kernel. 6x86MX executes
the original CISC instructions as does the Pentium MMX.
The 6x86MX has plenty of internal registers:
CPU Number of 32 bit
CPU registers
Pentium MMX 8
6x86MX 32
Pentium Pro 40
K6 48
The 6x86MX has - as all processors from Cyrix - a problem concerning the FPU
unit. However, using standard office applications, this is of no concern.
6X86MX Internal speed External speed
PR166 150 MHz 60 MHz
PR200 166 MHz 66 MHz
PR233 188 MHz 75 MHz
PR266 225 MHz 75 MHz
PR300 233 MHz 66 MHz
PR333 255 MHz 83 MHz
PR350 300 MHz 100 MHz
The 6X86MX is quite a powerful chip - on the paper. However I do not think,
that they always sell that well. There are problems with the supply of them,
and also the system bus speed causes troubles. It is difficult to find
motherboards that accepts these speeds. Hopefully this will change. They
also lack good FPU and MMX performance, and they do not incorporate the
3DNow! technology.
It is evident that Cyrix intends to continue this line of processors, and
this definitely is a positive trend. Intel gets competition, and it keeps
the well tested and inexpensive Socket 7 motherboards in the market.
The 6x86MX processor is produced by National/Cyrix as well as by IBM. The
architecture is the same, but the chips are built at different plants.
On April 14, 1998 the Cyrix MII (M-two) version was launched. From what I
understand it is exactly the same chip as the 6X86MX just running at higher
clock frequencies.
The top models were in June 1998:
CPU Cyrix MII/300 IBM PR333
Technology 0.35 micron Semi 0.25 micron
Possible clock
speeds 3.5 X 66 MHz = 233 MHz
3.0 X 75 MHz = 225 MHz 4.0 X 66 MHz = 266 MHz
3,5 X 75 MHz = 263 MHz
3.0 X 83 MHz = 250 MHz
IBM uses a new technology for their PR333 chip. It is patented and called
Flip-Chip. The die is soldered directly to the ceramic casing and this
causes less induction. IBM is preparing for true 0.25 micron processing
technology later this year, which will increase the external clock speed to
100 MHz.
Later we shall see the next Cyrix with IBM's copper technology, which will
give a new performance boost. They expect PR350 and PR400 models before 1999
using the Super7 motherboard standards.
In 1999 we should have the new 3rd generation of the 6X86MX (code name
Jalapeno). This CPU will be named MXi, and it will come in PR350 and PR400
flavors. The MXi is Socket 7 compatible, but it has an improved core running
a 133 MHz system bus. It also should include new 3D instructions (3DNow!)
and improved FPU..
Later Cyrix probably will build Pentium II compatible CPUs using the Slot 1
design, which they have license to produce.
Donald McTrevor said:
K
kony
According to the linked picture, your board has a switching
regulation circuit. This is important for having margin to
run faster CPUs. Unfortunately the SIS chipset isn't so
fast for that era and didn't support 100MHz FSB, BUT you can
still run a K6-2/400! Any newer K6-2 (400MHz and up should
be chosen, doesn't have to be "400", could be 450, 500, 533,
regardless of the fact that it'd spec'd for 100MHz FSB.
When your board is set to 2X CPU mulitplier, the newer K6-2
CPUs will interpret it as a 6X multiplier automatically, so
you'd have 6 x 66.6MHz = 400MHz. That is the best choice
for your motherboard. Set it to 2.2V vcore. The older
K6-2/400 models used 2.4V, seek one with 2.2V spec. Just
about any 500-533 MHz part should run ok with 2.2V @ 400MHz.
They only spec'd the CPUs available at time of writing and
that supported the 66MHz FSB. Fortunately AMD designed
later K6-2 to enable the 6X multipler using same mulitplier
selection pins so no support for it is necessary on any
motherboard. Since your board mentions *any* K6-2 support,
all of them would work. It is less likely a K6-3 would
work, it is possible but probably not work the hassle of
trying it and failing.
Cyrix CPUs made decent business systems because they had
dismal floating point performance but far at integers. Even
so, the K6-2 @ 400 is a significant upgrade. The real
question is whether it's worth the bother to do the upgrade
today since modern systems are SO much faster. Only you can
make that call.
D
Donald McTrevor
kony said:
True, the max for me is a K6-2 at 333 anyway.
It would only cost ~£5-£10 and I am not too bothered about
the 'bother' of upgrading as I would learn something from the
experience anyway. (Basically I would rather fry this system than
a brand new one!!).
Also a CPU fits through the letter box easier than a new PC!
K
kony
You seem to have completely missed the point of my entire
post- your max is not 333, it's 400. In fact you could even
try to run it at 6 x 75Mhz but I dont' remember if that
particular SIS chipset is the one that supported a FSB/2.5
PCI divider, which would allow keeping PCI bus at 30MHz when
FSB was at 75... so I only recommended the known
non-overclocked speed.
I recommend installing a door.
D
Donald McTrevor
kony said:
This any help?
http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/850.htm
http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/850-cpu.htm
And someone to open it no doubt.
K
kony
Perhaps, the link suggests JP18 1-2 setting would use async
clock to keep PCI bus in spec. I would hesitantly use it
though, backing up data before trying it, and being sure to
set it to 1-2 IF you did try to use 75MHz FSB.
or a request to leave package at the shipper's pick up
center.