what kind of person

[Ashton Crusher]

Not all of the people complaining about and trashing vista here have
ever booted to linux, but definitely have had major problems with vista.
They are complaining about and trashing ( sometimes legitimately so,
other times not) what they use, based on the "wow" factor they have
experienced or not. You also might be surprised at the number of windows
users/supporters that frequent this ng that do use an iteration of linux
along with windows. And don't forget that the mindless supporters (who
refuse to recognize the reality/severity of some of the vista issues)
can be seen in as bad a light as the mindless bashers.

I have not seen any mindless supporters that would qualify based on
the same traits as the mindless non-supporters. IOW, I'm not seeing
people just saying VISTA is great in response to someone else saying
"why can't I do such and such". Whereas you see a lot of "because
vista sucks" type comments in threads where someone is simply asking
"why am I having trouble copying a DVD".

 

[Ashton Crusher]

So I guess we can put your down for the Microsoft can piss on me all
they want club while charging inflated prices for buggy software that
fails to work as advertised, likely tinkers with my hardware slowing
it down to bow to Hollywood's DRM scheme, prevents me from making
"legal" backup copies of music or video I paid for and on top of all
that sticks the intrustive UAC nag screens in your way for even things
like trying to delete a shortcut off your desktop and laughing all the
way to the bank because of rubes like you that just shrug their
shoulders and say oh so what, get used to it.

No, you can put me down as someone not really having any issues of
significance with a major new OS and who doesn't see MS as an evil
empire.

I just want Microsoft to learn this is MY computer, not their
computer. Think that is too much to expect considering I paid for it?

Did they make you buy VISTA? Are they forcing you to stay with the PC
platform instead of going to a MAC?

 

[Ashton Crusher]

Ah, but here's an interesting twist: Those Mac users who bought the Intel
machines are trying Windows XP and even Vista with a host of different
results. Yeah, some whine and gripe about it because they're

A) not paying attention to the instructions, or
B) forgetting that the tools are still a beta (Boot Camp, VMWare Fusion), or
C) experiencing real hardware problems that do need a fix, but they are
simply impatient and love to gripe anyway.

The Windows-on-Mac phenomenon has largely been a good thing for Apple, as
their machines can now compete head-on with the best in the Windows
universe. Those who try it and succeed love the flexibility they have of
running most anything,. Yet they spend much more time in the Mac OS because
they find it less stressful to work with.

I should know. I have a Mac running Vista on the side, and I haven't had a
lot of problems with their latest Boot Camp so far. I spend a lot of time
trying to help interested Apple users bridge the gap between their world
and Windows. This from a man who wants to find balance between a life spent
troubleshooting thousands of problematic Windows machines and a quiet life
as a writer on a Mac. Go figure.

Nathan

If you and the others think the MAC is better why are you wasting time
running XP or Vista on a MAC?

 

[Ashton Crusher]

Some of us are genuinely having a lot of problems with Vista, and are asking
for help.

And those "some of us" are not the people I was commenting on. MS set
this server and newsgroup up to facilitate people getting help.

 

[Ashton Crusher]

And some of us just don't like the way they did Vista.
I don't like the interface.
I turned off the 'new' menus in XP and have done the same, as much as
possible, in Vista.
If I want pretty, I'll go to an art gallery.
I want my computer to WORK, first time, every time.
I don't want shadowing, slide out menus, Aero or much of the other junk they
keep tossing in as 'improvements'.
Eye candy doesn't make it work better, it just ups the hardware requirements
& slows it down..
If I don't know enough to keep malware off my system, I better learn or quit
going to those sites that you're likely to get it.
I think MS is trying to do what AOL is finally getting away
from...protrcting you from yourself with proprietary and 'easy' software
that only half-way works. Have it OUR way at MS Today!
No Thanks!

Can we infer from your "no thanks" that you don't own or run vista? Or
are you saying you are running it but have configured it to your own
liking? If it's the first, then why are you here? If it's the
second, then it sounds like VISTA is doing what you want so what's
your complaint?

 

[Frank]

I didn't say I can't customize it; but like IE7, they have limited what you
can do without reg hacks & third party apps.
Unless you really know your way around, it is more difficult to find things
& set them up the way you want.
I don't think MS actually listened to the feedback on the
interface/look/feel during the Beta process.
They had the same attitude, it's new, get used to it.
Because it is forced on new machines, it will continue to be 'the'
mainstream OS for a long while to come.
I have to support all our PCs, no matter the OS, so I am running Vista
personally & have been for quite a while.
That doesn't make me like it any better.
Based on MY personal evaluation of 'the benefits of Vista over XP'; none of
our 150+ XP machines will be getting Vista!
I upgraded all of our existing W98/ME machines to XP because of the
usability/stability improvements XP offered.
I don't see that Vista makes sense unless you are forced to it with new
hardware, in the normal upgrade cycle.
And after our cost/benefit discussions this month, that cycle just got a
year longer.
Have I let my personal dislike enter the equation, probably so.
But, if I don't like it, what would make me beileve that novice or casual
users will find it better? Or that it will be as easy or easier to support?
As far as I am concerned, MS missed their foot & shot themselves in the
head.

.If anyone knew it all, none of would be here!
(e-mail address removed)
Change Alpha to Numeric to reply

Well I agree for business it's the hardware thingie that's the fly in
the ointment.
But if a "novice" get on Vista who cares...he probably didn't know that
much if anything about XP.
Hey, in the 4 series betas I asked, "whats the point" but after a year
of Vista(s) XP looks old and tired and I like it better than XP.
But then I recognize I'm a "bleeding edge" type of person. Not everyone
likes change.
Frank

 

[ray]

Ashton, alot of us would like to know the answer to that question.
It's obvious the linux loser trolls from trash dot are here cause they
hate everything MS and love all things limux like Ubuttoo.
Frank

That's Ubuntu - if you're going to try to be insulting, at least get it
right.

 

[ray]

They're called "trolls," and they apparently have a great deal of time
on their hands.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/t/troll.html

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,289893,sid9_gci213222,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

That's because they don't have to spend every waking moment fending off
the malware.

 

[Frank]

That's Ubuntu - if you're going to try to be insulting, at least get it
right.

<---------------------->

Huh...you didn't even have to duck to miss that one.
(smirk)
Frank

 

[Nathan Alden]

Ashton,

You want my personal reasons, or must I waste time defending Apple users in
general? Because if you want the latter, you're not going to get it because
I simply can't do it. I can't speak for all who you imply are ignorant.

I work from the angle of being an A+ Certified support technician. As such,
I find that the ability to run Windows on a Mac is beneficial to my skills;
it allows me to keep one foot in the Windows world so I don't forget what to
do to fix a problem as it comes up. At the same time, having knowledge of
two platforms is an asset in that I am able to assist more clients in
troubleshooting than I otherwise would if I stuck with one.

Personally. I'm a very curious man; I love to experiment, to dabble in this
and that, That's why I bother running Windows on a Mac.

Yet, the stress of dealing with everybody else's issues day in and day out
makes me think I don't want to bring my work home, and so with a Mac and Mac
OS, I have the ability to concentrate on using my computer rather than waste
time debugging it.

But that's just me.

Nathan

 

[Adam Albright]

No, you can put me down as someone not really having any issues of
significance with a major new OS and who doesn't see MS as an evil
empire.

OK, Vista works for you. So you're saying you don't give a damn about
the countless customers where Vista causes all kinds of problems. Got
it. I guess we can put you down as being self-centered too.

Did they make you buy VISTA? Are they forcing you to stay with the PC
platform instead of going to a MAC?

The moronic 'nobody made you buy Vista' remark in one form or another,
common to this newsgroup is both ignorant and juvenile. I generally
dismiss anybody dumb enough to make it. For good reason, they just
proved they think like a child and don't give a rat's ass about
anybody BUT themselves. I would imagine if you were one of the people
having trouble with Vista, you would be screaming your lungs out. Get
back to me when you grow up.

People that PAY for Vista have every reasonable expectation for it to
perform as advertised. The same crowd that says go buy a Mac or go use
Linux or go on using XP again show their simplistic mindset. I don't
feel Microsoft is a evil empire, however I do feel Miscosoft at the
highest levels of the corporation is arrogant, non responsive and all
too will quick to release products BEFORE they are fully tested.
That's their 21 year track record with Windows. Why should anyone
believe anything has changed? If anything it got worse with Vista. I
see zero justification for releaseing what was basically a facelift
knowing it had at least 500 known bugs. That obviously is arrogance.
The only major "new" thing in Vista is UAC and that is so badly
implemented is it laughable.

 

[Adam Albright]

If you and the others think the MAC is better why are you wasting time
running XP or Vista on a MAC?

Why do you and others insist on being ignorant? You have any idea how
much I and millions of others have invested in Windows software over
the years that ONLY runs under Windows? What's your brillant solution,
just toss all that software and spend thousands of dollars on
replacing it and relearning how to use something else and learning how
to master a new OS? Some suggestion, got any more clever ideas?

 

[Adam Albright]

And those "some of us" are not the people I was commenting on. MS set
this server and newsgroup up to facilitate people getting help.

Hey... you're awfully good at backpedaling too. You learn from Justin?
Something else you have in common with the other Microsoft apologist
crowd. For the record, I don't have any serious problems with Vista.
Surely nothing I couldn't and haven't worked around. However I see a
lot of people that do come here getting the "treatment". Since the
Bozo bunch seem to enjoy picking on newbies and people with real
problems, only fair the whiner's club gets a bit of their own
medicine. Sorry if its a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Adam Albright]

Can we infer from your "no thanks" that you don't own or run vista?

You seem to have a habit of sticking your foot in your month. I KNOW
you had to learn that from Justin.

Or are you saying you are running it but have configured it to your own
liking? If it's the first, then why are you here? If it's the
second, then it sounds like VISTA is doing what you want so what's
your complaint?

You know what ticks me off? Bozos like you that think this newsgroup
is just suppose to be a fan club for Microsoft loyalists. I'm so sorry
you shorts get all twisted in knots every time somebody documents
another bug or design flaw in Vista. Hint: Discussing such things is
the REAL reason this newsgroup is here, not to bring burnt offerings
to place on the Microsoft alter.

 

[Mark]

You know what ticks me off? Bozos like you that think this newsgroup
is just suppose to be a fan club for Microsoft loyalists. I'm so sorry
you shorts get all twisted in knots every time somebody documents
another bug or design flaw in Vista. Hint: Discussing such things is
the REAL reason this newsgroup is here, not to bring burnt offerings
to place on the Microsoft alter.

Then discuss them and quit the antics.

I see zero justification for releasing what was basically a facelift
knowing it had at least 500 known bugs.

Can you even list 10 of them?
Remember, opinion is not the truth.

You have a choice:
1. Seek to make it work. Ask for help.
2. Take it back.
3. Whine about your inadequacy in making it work.

Apparently, you prefer option 3.

 

[Larry]

The idea that screen elements that move on their own represent some kind of
"advance" is like believing that TV baseball broadcasts with high-charged
graphics and sound effects going "WHOOSH" every ten seconds adds to the
experience of watching baseball.

But it's worse with a computer. With the "Explorer-like" pane in Windows
Vista, you're trying to orient yourself in the folder hierarchy and figure
out what's there, and it keeps MOVING horizontally left and right every time
you move up and down in the tree. So in addition to this totally confusing
new operating system that you need to figure out, it also keeps moving on
you.

As I said about Word 2007 in another news group, Microsoft with Vista has
jumped the shark.

It's like a kind of madness took them over. I predict that in future
versions, many of these new things will be scaled back. People want an OS
they can navigate in and manage, not to have a "funhouse" experience.

 

[Not Me]

Change isn't the issue.
I have seen a LOT of changes since I started with HP Basic in 1970.
I have gone from a tube based system and storing programs on Mylar tape to
punchcards to 18" platters to floppies to cds to thumb drives.
From writing all my own programs to using everything from Cobol, Fortran,
Compiler, DOS, OS2, Windows, Unix, Linux...

To me, Change has to have a purpose. If it's not a needed improvement in
FUNCTION, what's the point.
To me a feature needs a benefit.
I see new stuff that really doesn't do anything but change the appearance.
It doesn't DO anything that I couldn't do in XP, and seems to require a lot
more overhead to do it.
I don't see what Vista actually does BETTER. That is my point.
New doesn't always mean better!

 

[Ashton Crusher]

OK, Vista works for you. So you're saying you don't give a damn about
the countless customers where Vista causes all kinds of problems. Got
it. I guess we can put you down as being self-centered too.

I bet you win all the arguments when you get to put words in the other
sides mouth. No where did I say any of that. In fact, you were the
one who originally put words in my mouth which I previous had to slap
you down on. Your kind never stops throwing out strawmen so I don't
expect that will change and you will continue your lies.

The moronic 'nobody made you buy Vista' remark in one form or another,
common to this newsgroup is both ignorant and juvenile. I generally
dismiss anybody dumb enough to make it. For good reason, they just
proved they think like a child and don't give a rat's ass about
anybody BUT themselves. I would imagine if you were one of the people
having trouble with Vista, you would be screaming your lungs out. Get
back to me when you grow up.

Nobody made you buy vista. The truth hurts doesn't it.

People that PAY for Vista have every reasonable expectation for it to
perform as advertised. The same crowd that says go buy a Mac or go use
Linux or go on using XP again show their simplistic mindset. I don't
feel Microsoft is a evil empire, however I do feel Miscosoft at the
highest levels of the corporation is arrogant, non responsive and all
too will quick to release products BEFORE they are fully tested.
That's their 21 year track record with Windows. Why should anyone
believe anything has changed? If anything it got worse with Vista. I
see zero justification for releaseing what was basically a facelift
knowing it had at least 500 known bugs. That obviously is arrogance.
The only major "new" thing in Vista is UAC and that is so badly
implemented is it laughable.

Lets, see, you claim you know how bad the MS OSs have been for the
last 21 years and yet you STILL paid good money for VISTA. You say
you knew it had over 500 known bugs yet you STILL paid good money for
VISTA. You say the only major "new" thing in Vista is UAC and that it
is so badly implemented it is laughable yet you STILL paid good money
for VISTA.

What are we to make of you? You seem to know it all yet STILL paid
good money for VISTA.

Seems to me you just like to whine.

 

[Ashton Crusher]

That makes perfect sense. I don't think Apple users need to defend
their use of MACs anymore then PC users need to defend their use of
PCs. It was an honest question. Many MACers seem enthralled by the
notion of running Windows on their MAC and since almost all of them
think the MAC is so much better I am curious as to why people would do
that.

 

[Ashton Crusher]

Why do you and others insist on being ignorant? You have any idea how
much I and millions of others have invested in Windows software over
the years that ONLY runs under Windows? What's your brillant solution,
just toss all that software and spend thousands of dollars on
replacing it and relearning how to use something else and learning how
to master a new OS? Some suggestion, got any more clever ideas?

You answering something I wasn't talking about. I'm talking about
people who purportedly were perfectly happy running their MACs and MAC
software and when it became possible to run Windows on their MAC they
felt the need to do so. If a MAC emulator became available (maybe
there is one??) that I could run on my PC I don't see any reason I
would want to do so. I've used MACs and have found the offer nothing
I don't already have and in some cases offer less. My sister had to
take one of my old PCs so she could run a Windows program because
there was no good program available for her MAC. But don't mistake my
comments as knocking MACs. I don't care what people choose to use,
that's there business. My sister lovers her MAC but when she visits
me she gets along just fine on my PC.