Pricelessware Site Suggestion (input from all please)

[Alpha]

First let me say just how exellent i think the pricelessware sites are.
I first stumbled on it/them a couple of years ago and often pay a visit
to browse around.

This year i was eagelly awaiting to see pricelessware 2006, but when it
came....hmmmm.....have to say i was a bit dissapointed. Same progs with
few changes...This i understand but i think those of us who know the
site well would love to see an expansion of new catagories. For
example, Top Scripts for Webdesigners, A Plugins section, And maybe a
catagory for Best Sites on the Net.

Also i found the number of different pricelessware sites on the net
CONFUSING!....pricelesswarehome, pricelessware, pricelessware 2005,
2002, pricelessware this, that.... you know what i mean.....i
understand there maybe two or more site owners with similer names but
please.........make it simple to get the most up to date listings for
newbees when searching on google....DELETE WHAT IS OLD! KEEP WHAT IS
NEW....if there are two different sites, come to an agreement to make
them distinguishable from one anouther without sacrificing trafic.

Hope my comments are not taken as critisism since pricelessware (this
or that) is one of my favorite sites and i only aim to start a
discussion on these points and perhaps get some feedback.

Regards.......A

 

[Bob S]

First let me say just how exellent i think the pricelessware sites are.
I first stumbled on it/them a couple of years ago and often pay a visit
to browse around.

This year i was eagelly awaiting to see pricelessware 2006, but when it
came....hmmmm.....have to say i was a bit dissapointed. Same progs with
few changes...This i understand but i think those of us who know the
site well would love to see an expansion of new catagories. For
example, Top Scripts for Webdesigners, A Plugins section, And maybe a
catagory for Best Sites on the Net.

Also i found the number of different pricelessware sites on the net
CONFUSING!....pricelesswarehome, pricelessware, pricelessware 2005,
2002, pricelessware this, that.... you know what i mean.....i
understand there maybe two or more site owners with similer names but
please.........make it simple to get the most up to date listings for
newbees when searching on google....DELETE WHAT IS OLD! KEEP WHAT IS
NEW....if there are two different sites, come to an agreement to make
them distinguishable from one anouther without sacrificing trafic.

Hope my comments are not taken as critisism since pricelessware (this
or that) is one of my favorite sites and i only aim to start a
discussion on these points and perhaps get some feedback.

Regards.......A

Alpha,

Consider this a forewarning to get your flame suit on cause the purists in
this ng are gonna be all over your case. You ask why? Well, let me tell
you that there has been some discussion of what can be and what cannot be
discussed here and since your subject topic and comments are not about
"freeware" - you cannot make such comments here according to the purists
that think they own this group.

Now, if the definition that these purists have defined for this ng was
applied as written - then your post would be on-topic and allowed.
Specifically, there is no charter for the group (so you really can post
anything you want) but there is a FAQ two of the purists wrote that they
want to force on everyone but won't stand by it when it goes against their
interpretation (whatever that really is, is like pushing a noodle uphill)
but in their FAQ they state:
...................................................
3 ) WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE ALT.COMP.FREEWARE NEWSGROUP ?
To discuss matters relating to computer freeware.
...................................................

Anyone with a first grade level of education would agree that your post
should be allowed here since the Pricelessware websites "relate" to
freeware. But wait a minute - your post is not "about" freeware, so it's
not allowed according to the "John Twins" (hey I kinda like that, say that
fast 10 times....). But I digress and I and another have been admonished
for exercising our 1st Amendment rights (even though the posts were in the
spirit of the newsgroups intended purpose and related to freeware). Not to
mention that good natured Susan (;-) let us know that a consensus poll taken
(a whole 36 total votes) indicated that payware could only be discussed
"briefly and for comparisons only, etc."

Look it up, yep they said "etc." - meaning "and the rest, and so forth"
correct? Not in their rulebook - has a different meaning that unless you
know the secret handshake, you'll never know what they mean (they don't
either but that is beside the point).

Now, when a poll of 36 astute freeware purists (out of the hundreds, if not
thousands of other peons that read this ng) are considered a consensus and
they rule.... So if I were you I would start packing my bags and get your
fire-proof britches hitched up real tight cause you're gonna catch holy hell
now.

You'll note that I have partially saved my ass from being burned at the
stake by inserting OT into the subject line. (pssssst... the purists think
that means Off-Topic but I've changed the meaning to On-Topic and it was
voted on by a consensus of 1 - but don't tell them okay?)

And since we're going to be shot at sunrise anyway, I'll comment on your
post. I agree - it's confusing and I don't see what purpose it serves but
then again, it's a purists thing......so go figure...;-)

Bob S.

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

First let me say just how exellent i think the pricelessware sites are.
I first stumbled on it/them a couple of years ago and often pay a visit
to browse around.

This year i was eagelly awaiting to see pricelessware 2006, but when it
came....hmmmm.....have to say i was a bit dissapointed. Same progs with
few changes...This i understand but i think those of us who know the
site well would love to see an expansion of new catagories. For
example, Top Scripts for Webdesigners, A Plugins section, And maybe a
catagory for Best Sites on the Net.

Alpha, thats possible. But you (or someone other) must suggest new
categories and new programs! Write descriptions and promote. Nothing is
done if not you, or someone else, does the job...

Also i found the number of different pricelessware sites on the net
CONFUSING!....pricelesswarehome, pricelessware, pricelessware 2005,
2002, pricelessware this, that.... you know what i mean.....i
understand there maybe two or more site owners with similer names but
please.........make it simple to get the most up to date listings for
newbees when searching on google....DELETE WHAT IS OLD! KEEP WHAT IS
NEW....if there are two different sites, come to an agreement to make
them distinguishable from one anouther without sacrificing trafic.

There are only two: Pricelessware.org (2004 list) is abandoned and will
probably first disapper when the former owner decides not to pay the
bill for the domain any more. Memo to myself: Stop. Don't write anything
about why.

Pricelesswarehome.org is the official site.
And having information on the pricelesswarehome.org site about which
programs were elected earlier years can well only be a good thing?

Hope my comments are not taken as critisism since pricelessware (this
or that) is one of my favorite sites and i only aim to start a
discussion on these points and perhaps get some feedback.

Regards.......A

regards from vegard

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

Now, when a poll of 36 astute freeware purists (out of the hundreds, if not
thousands of other peons that read this ng) are considered a consensus and
they rule....

1. Can you tell (I require proof) how many people read this newsgroup?
2. They who vote care
3. They who vote rule
4. If you don't vote, you can't complain until next election / vote.

That's how it is in real life, that's how it is in alt.comp.freeware.

regards from vegard

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------

 

[Alpha]

now you just confused me even more.........hmmmmmmmmmm...polotics.

 

[bambam]

1. Can you tell (I require proof) how many people read this newsgroup?
2. They who vote care
3. They who vote rule
4. If you don't vote, you can't complain until next election / vote.

That's how it is in real life, that's how it is in alt.comp.freeware.

Bill S, the man who fought for democracy, now he doesn't like it.
Boo Hoo.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Consider this a forewarning to get your flame suit on cause the
purists in this ng are gonna be all over your case. You ask why?
Well, let me tell you that there has been some discussion of what
can be and what cannot be discussed here and since your subject
topic and comments are not about "freeware" - you cannot make such
comments here according to the purists that think they own this
group.

[remainder of rant snipped]

Discussions about how to improve the pricelessware site are generally
welcomed here. Attempts to derail the threads about PL generally
aren't.

FWIW, there's been discussion of what should and shouldn't be posted
here for many, many years, and your use of thread-hijacking to advance
an agenda isn't an innovation. Many people here use readers which
can't easily kill subthreads, so it's a much better idea to keep the
attacks on the alleged purists in the threads you've already got
going, even if you also use OT markings.

 

[Bob S]

Consider this a forewarning to get your flame suit on cause the
purists in this ng are gonna be all over your case. You ask why?
Well, let me tell you that there has been some discussion of what
can be and what cannot be discussed here and since your subject
topic and comments are not about "freeware" - you cannot make such
comments here according to the purists that think they own this
group.

[remainder of rant snipped]

Discussions about how to improve the pricelessware site are generally
welcomed here. Attempts to derail the threads about PL generally
aren't.

FWIW, there's been discussion of what should and shouldn't be posted
here for many, many years, and your use of thread-hijacking to advance
an agenda isn't an innovation. Many people here use readers which
can't easily kill subthreads, so it's a much better idea to keep the
attacks on the alleged purists in the threads you've already got
going, even if you also use OT markings.

For your simple-mind, that was a parody not a rant but since you believe it
was a serious post - then so be it. But by your logic, spam and many other
OT discussions have been posted here over the years - does that make them
okay now?

I was not advancing any agenda but simply defending a posters right to
discuss "matters relating to freeware". If you cared to read the whole
thread you would have understood that. But like some others, you will take
a section out of context and read into it what you want instead of
considering all that was said.

And I see that now, using OT (which was ok in the FAQ) is not okay now.
Geezzuuusss you net nanny's gotta make up your minds. I'm sure I can't rely
on the 36 voters for any future help in this group - and one those even
asked for proof that there are more than 36... Gotta wonder if he's for
real or not.

Bob S.

 

[Bob S]

1. Can you tell (I require proof) how many people read this newsgroup?

Well I made a basic assumption that there are more than 36, but hang on, let
me go count...... Yep, I counted more than 36 names and if you want proof,
I think you may be in big trouble since when you get done using all your
toes and fingers to keep count - you'll still be shy a few. But seriously,
if you DAGs on "usenet statistics", I'm sure something will pop-up that will
convince you that there are more than 36 people that use the newsgroup.

2. They who vote care

Oh yeah...we can tell that right off - really nice caring comments like
yours. You voted right?

3. They who vote rule

Don't know where you grew up but you missed that one by a mile.

4. If you don't vote, you can't complain until next election / vote.

Oh? Where does it say that? Is there another secret document that the 36
of you voted on that we don't know about? Seems like a few of you like to
make up the rules as you go along to suit your own whims and fancy's and
when it pleases you.

That's how it is in real life, that's how it is in alt.comp.freeware.

Well now that's certainly debatable. Real life in alt.comp.freeware - that
would appear to be an oxymoron if I've ever heard one based on some of the
comments lately.

Thank you for your interest in my comments but if you need instructions on
"How not to read a post", I'd be glad to send you an email.

Bob S.

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

Bob S skrev:

I was not advancing any agenda but simply defending a posters right to
discuss "matters relating to freeware".

Defending from whom? You started the "discussion".

and one those even
asked for proof that there are more than 36...

Nope. I did not. I asked for proof of > how many people read this newsgroup?

That's not the same.

Note to myself: Stop feeding the trolls.

regards from vegard

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

Bob S skrev:

Well I made a basic assumption that there are more than 36, but hang on, let
me go count...... Yep, I counted more than 36 names and if you want proof,
I think you may be in big trouble since when you get done using all your
toes and fingers to keep count - you'll still be shy a few. But seriously,
if you DAGs on "usenet statistics", I'm sure something will pop-up that will
convince you that there are more than 36 people that use the newsgroup.

It's obvious you are not going to keep a civil tone. That does not
prevent me from doing so.

You made a unverified claim that there is "thousands" of people reading
alt.comp.freeware (acf). That is what I want you to verify.

Oh yeah...we can tell that right off - really nice caring comments like
yours. You voted right?

Probably. I do not remember this specific poll. But: If you did not vote
- do you really care then?

Don't know where you grew up but you missed that one by a mile.

I grew up i a democracy. Simple: They who vote elect they who rule. It's
they who have the majority of votes which opinions and views decide the
laws and behavoiur in the society.

Oh? Where does it say that? Is there another secret document that the 36
of you voted on that we don't know about? Seems like a few of you like to
make up the rules as you go along to suit your own whims and fancy's and
when it pleases you.

It's my personal opinion. If you do not care to vote, I say you have no
right even to critize anything - Thats the way it is. Or at least should
be. Good for RL and acf.

Well now that's certainly debatable. Real life in alt.comp.freeware - that
would appear to be an oxymoron if I've ever heard one based on some of the
comments lately.

Thank you for your interest in my comments but if you need instructions on
"How not to read a post", I'd be glad to send you an email.

And I will, of course, send one back.

Bob S.

regards from vegard krog petersen
http://vegard2.no

 

[Susan Bugher]

This year i was eagelly awaiting to see pricelessware 2006, but when it
came....hmmmm.....have to say i was a bit dissapointed. Same progs with
few changes...This i understand but i think those of us who know the
site well would love to see an expansion of new catagories. For
example, Top Scripts for Webdesigners, A Plugins section, And maybe a
catagory for Best Sites on the Net.

You might want to take a little harder look. There are 47 newcomers on
the 2006 Pricelessware List (out of a total of 207 programs). That's
about 25 percent. Other programs have returned after an absence of a
year or more (I don't have a count on those).

Also i found the number of different pricelessware sites on the net
CONFUSING!....pricelesswarehome, pricelessware, pricelessware 2005,
2002, pricelessware this, that.... you know what i mean.....i
understand there maybe two or more site owners with similer names but
please.........make it simple to get the most up to date listings for
newbees when searching on google....DELETE WHAT IS OLD! KEEP WHAT IS
NEW....if there are two different sites, come to an agreement to make
them distinguishable from one anouther without sacrificing trafic.

Casual visitors who arrive at an archived page on the PWH site via a
Google search are pointed toward more recent information. OTOH - I agree
it's nice to see only the latest PL links in Google's search results.
You can do that kind of search easily from the search boxes on the PWH
web site.

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/

Sneak preview - the home page for 2006 is here ATM:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/index-2006.html

The archives were requested by newsgroup participants - yours is the
first request I recall to remove them. I'm not sure just HOW useful the
archives are but I do occasionally notice a post where someone mentions
digging some helpful information out of them. . .

FYI - the pricelessware.org site is not being maintained - IOW it's not
going to change - whatever confusion that causes will presumably remain
as long as the site remains.

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Susan Bugher]

Discussions about how to improve the pricelessware site are generally
welcomed here.

Yup. I've been tinkering with the headers again - trying to make
navigation as easy as possible. . . Comments and suggestions for
improvement are welcome:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/index-2006.html
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Index.php
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acfg/acfg.php

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/ftp/Archives/2006PL-CD/ (many links
won't work as the pages aren't there yet)

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Bob S]

Bob S skrev:

Defending from whom? You started the "discussion".

Nope. I did not. I asked for proof of how many people read this
newsgroup?

That's not the same.

Note to myself: Stop feeding the trolls.

regards from vegard

Vegard,

No, I'm not a troll and I'll be serious with you. I did not start this
thread and if you go back and look, you'll find that out. I would suggest
you read the original posts and you will see that there were some asinine
comments to both the OP's post and my posts. When people start taking
comments out of context, and bend them to fit what they want it to say - as
you did, then I view those comments as a joke and respond accordingly.

You said, I said "thousands" but you failed to recognize the word "hundreds"
before that - see what I mean? You want proof - proof of what? That more
than the number of voters (36) read this ng? C'mon - are you serious?
There was, or still may be, a service that listed statistics for the top 100
ng's. ACF was not one of them but I really did look and count names when I
responded to your comments and there damn well more than 36 individual
names. Go count them.

As I said to John C., we'll just agree to disagree. If I have questions for
this ng, I seriously do not want any of the purists answering them - they
are to narrow-minded. By that, I mean they appear not to have the breadth
of knowledge nor the willingness to offer advice nor to open their minds
to - ( and get this )- "matters relating to freeware".

When I need advice, I prefer to get it from someone that has "been there,
done that" type of person that does have a broad background in both software
and hardware and has many experiences, not just one - a thousand times over.
There are a number of professionals that contribute here and can offer sage
advice on many related subjects. Why anyone would want to restrict that to
the narrowest of meanings is beyond my comprehension. If you ever had to
pay for some of the pro's advice on an hourly basis - you could definitely
relate to that. Here it's given freely and usually with the honest intent of
trying to help someone solve a problem.

But the narrow definition that the purists want to apply to this group does
not allow for any discussions other than what they want even though it fits
within the boundaries of what has been defined in the FAQ. The definitions
in the FAQ (as quoted previously) and as above is rather broad. Read it
again......"to discuss matters relating to freeware" is one example and is
the definition given for "What is the purpose of ACF". Nowhere is that
further defined, restricted nor expanded upon. Read the original posts
again - not the ones that are clipped and sentences taken out of context.
You'll see that we (and others) have made valid points but since we're not
part of the "purists" clan and only speak freeware, we're treated as trolls.
That is simply childish behavior and some of my comments were aimed at
highlighting that behavior.

Freeware is nice, but ya know - the world does not revolve around software
and the sun will rise in the morning even if freeware were to vanish in the
night. You want this little corner of hell to yourselves - knock yourselves
out. When I make a post - please do not respond, even if you have an answer
that would help me find a solution for a client. Put me in your kill-file
now and save yourself any future self-imposed aggravation by reading what I
and others have to say when it comes to matters relating to freeware. I'm
not going away. Help me, and I'll help you if I have a reasonable answer
that I think would be of benefit. Otherwise, I'll stay out of your posts
and you stay out of mine - fair enough?

Bob S.

 

[Helen]

Yes! You may discuss ANY "matters relating (however tenuous and irrelevant) to freeware" in
another newsgroup where your rants are THE subject.

Here, in this until now mostly civil and informative ng, the subject is FREEware, not any and
everything 'relating to' freeware. Those who have been here for years are familiar with the
destructive trolls and their need for attention. Your post appears to be one of that ilk.
People know what to do with destructive trolls in newsgroups.

BTW, thanks Susan et al for all the work you do and your unselfish concern for others and
producing a quality product.

Don't allow the dipsticks to destroy this newsgroup. They need to get their own ng and just
dig at each other until the cows come home! There are bully-boys in other ngs and some here
have similar names...slight variations but thank God they are the minority! One dipstick with
many slivers. Plonk...plonk...plonk!.... my bozo bin over-floweth!

Helen

-- It has always been the policy of the advocates of error, when unable to
sustain themselves by sophistry, specious reasoning and false logic, to stigmatize
the advocates of truth.

 

[Peter Seiler]

Helen - 08.12.2005 03:25 :

"Bob S" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Yes! You may discuss ANY "matters relating (however tenuous and irrelevant) to freeware" in
another newsgroup where your rants are THE subject.

Here, in this until now mostly civil and informative ng, the subject is FREEware, not any and
everything 'relating to' freeware.

OT-Trolls were/are here very often. Typically they dont care about OT,
"rules" etc. They also dont care about any simple "rules" about right
quoting, making right use of SIGs etc.. If you point this out to them,
they more than often are responding, that they feel free to have the
right to write, post, repost in a way only they want beside any normal
usenet behavior. They only troll. And they use a vulgaire speech level
as "**** off, moron" etc. and call you a net-/NG-cop etc.. There is no
understanding for any usenet behavior. They only try profiling
themselves as "cool" and have "fun" in flame waring.

(Excuse: English really is not my first language)

 

[Doc]

It's obvious you are not going to keep a civil tone. That does not
prevent me from doing so.

You made a unverified claim that there is "thousands" of people
reading alt.comp.freeware (acf). That is what I want you to verify.


regards from vegard krog petersen
http://vegard2.no

What unverified claim ?? I read ....... (out of the hundreds, if not
thousands of other peons that read this ng)

Where does Bob S state that there (sic) IS "thousands" ?

 

[Doc]

now you just confused me even more.........hmmmmmmmmmm...polotics.

Yup, get used to it around here.

 

[Doc]

Yes! You may discuss ANY "matters relating (however tenuous and
irrelevant) to freeware" in another newsgroup where your rants are THE
subject.

<balance of vehement rant snipped>

Helen

Check the FAQ again Helen ....

...................................................
3 ) WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE ALT.COMP.FREEWARE NEWSGROUP ?
To discuss matters relating to computer freeware.
...................................................

Which part of the word RELATING don't you understand ?

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

What unverified claim ?? I read ....... (out of the hundreds, if not
thousands of other peons that read this ng)

Where does Bob S state that there (sic) IS "thousands" ?

Now, when a poll of 36 astute freeware purists (out of the hundreds, if not
thousands of other peons that read this ng)

Looks like a claim to me. Or are you just playing semantics?

regards from

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------