prediction: vista will be attacked like no other OS in history

[DCR]

Think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think
before you demonstrate yet once again your total lack of comprehension
and rational thinking. (Wasted works to an idiot.)
I can honestly say that I have never read anything so convoluted, so
mangled, so SILLY in my life!
Do you pull these analogies out of your ass?
You totally misunderstand the point of this discussion.


| "Is not protecting your investment your Right?"
| No, it's not. In certain/most cases are you allowed to. But being "allowed
| to" and having it be "a right" are two different things.
|
| "when I move back to the States I can't use that DVD in a new DVD player I
| bought here because my Albanian one was damaged in shipping? Yes its against
| your rights."
| No, that is not against any "rights". If you broke your consumer product
| then you need to buy a new consumer product. No one has the "Right to
| Consumer Products".
|
| Why DVD's are region protected is another argument and that was NOT what I
| was referring to. The problem you missed the point was because DVD's are so
| common place they are 100% socially accepted. Once DRM is as common place
| it to will be 100% socially accepted. What I was referring to was ANY video
| playing device. You argued that you need certain equipment to play DRM
| media. Well guess what? You need certain equipment to play anything
| (software/hardware).

 

[caver1]

"Is not protecting your investment your Right?"
No, it's not. In certain/most cases are you allowed to. But being "allowed
to" and having it be "a right" are two different things.

"when I move back to the States I can't use that DVD in a new DVD player I
bought here because my Albanian one was damaged in shipping? Yes its against
your rights."
No, that is not against any "rights". If you broke your consumer product
then you need to buy a new consumer product. No one has the "Right to
Consumer Products".

Why DVD's are region protected is another argument and that was NOT what I
was referring to. The problem you missed the point was because DVD's are so
common place they are 100% socially accepted. Once DRM is as common place
it to will be 100% socially accepted. What I was referring to was ANY video
playing device. You argued that you need certain equipment to play DRM
media. Well guess what? You need certain equipment to play anything
(software/hardware).

If consumers have no rights why are there consumer rights laws to
protect those rights?
I never complained about having to have a DVD player to play a DVD. I
guess I have to have a tv to watch tv. That in itself has no bearing on
rights. The courts did say you have a right to time shift that tv
broadcast which put that program on another gadget. The industry tried
to say you don't have that right. Just because the industry tries to
destroy the rights that the law has granted doesn't mean you never had
them. The only reason for regional locks on DVDs is for more money not
to stop theft. And yes you do have the right to protect your investment.
Investment implies legally bought not stolen.
DVD regional locks fall under the same category. When cassettes came out
the recording industry tried to stop their use. The courts stated that
it was the consumers right under fair use. Yes I can record my vinyl to
tape for my own use and to share with friends. If I buy a cd I can use
it on my cd player or my mp3(generic term) for my own use. The only
reason RIAA doesn't want you to do this is so they can force you to buy
multiple copies. IF I already paid the royalties on the music I copy I
am not stealing from anyone. I bought the media, I paid for use of the
music, and I paid royalties to the artist for the second copy. THe
recording industry had nothing to do with the second copy so I stole
nothing from them.
The only ones who do not complain about there rights being eroded are
sheep being led to slaughter.

 

[Lucvdv]

If consumers have no rights why are there consumer rights laws to
protect those rights?

To be applied, but there aren't many countries that apply them.

France is a notable exeption:
http://www.allpeers.com/blog/?page_id=113
(plenty more blogs and news articles to be found via Google, but
nothing recent: has it been overturned by a higher court, or not?)

 

[Justin]

"Justin simply appears to be living in a fantasy world."
See below:

"You're also right about how stores pass on the cost of theft."
Show proof of this. Don't just say it. Just because you say something
doesn't make it true. If this where the case then you would see random
prices of the same product per store. Which is NOT the case. There is
absolutely no proof of this in any retail store I have ever visited.

"But Justin lives in a world where companies give employees copies of their
Windows and Office software for personal use."
What's your point? You also say this like it's every employee? Get your
facts straights and learn to pay attention to detail. Just because it
doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Triple negative from
hell.

"And probably give them pens, toilet paper, miscellaneous computer hardware,
and whatever else is in inventory at the office."
Well, now you're just being stupid. Are you wanting anyone to take you
seriously?

"And pirated music or software are just gifts from the copyright owners."
I guess this was just more stupid talk?



Thanks, Justin Emlay System Administrator Maisto International, Inc.
909-357-7988 ext.360 909-357-9958 fax (e-mail address removed) www.maisto.com

 

[Justin]

That's your exact reply to everyone here. How sad it must be to live in a
world where everyone around you is stupid, stilly and doesn't think. I
guess you'll just never be happy on this planet.



Thanks, Justin Emlay System Administrator Maisto International, Inc.
909-357-7988 ext.360 909-357-9958 fax (e-mail address removed) www.maisto.com

 

[Justin]

Let's backup. You wrote:

"DRM when fully implemented will not let any hardware play or copy music
or other media to be played/reproduced that is not fully DRM compliant
even if it is a legal copy."

I read this and I'm still left to ponder....what's your point? I guess I
need you to point me where it states you have the RIGHT to do otherwise.

I'm not tryig to be an ass here but honestly, if someone doesn't like DRM
standards then they shouldn't buy anything that conforms to DRM.

Going back to consumer goods....NO, no one has the Right To Consumer Goods.
That in itself means that no one HAS to sell you anything and you are never
forced to buy anything.

Consumers are protected AFTER a purchase.



Thanks, Justin Emlay System Administrator Maisto International, Inc.
909-357-7988 ext.360 909-357-9958 fax (e-mail address removed) www.maisto.com

 

[Alias]

Thanks, Justin Emlay System Administrator Maisto International, Inc.
909-357-7988 ext.360 909-357-9958 fax (e-mail address removed) www.maisto.com

Wow, you're a system administrator and you don't know better than to
post your phone number, fax and real email addresses on Usenet?

Alias

 

[caver1]

Let's backup. You wrote:

"DRM when fully implemented will not let any hardware play or copy music
or other media to be played/reproduced that is not fully DRM compliant
even if it is a legal copy."

I read this and I'm still left to ponder....what's your point? I guess I
need you to point me where it states you have the RIGHT to do otherwise.

Being that DRM is being forced down everyone's throats and everything in
the future will be DRM protected then now is the time to complain and
try to find a compromise. If I buy a legal copy of a cd. I should be
able to make a copy of it either on my MP3 player for my own use or a
copy of it for use at the beach so the original doesn't get scratched
up. I protected my investment. DRM goes so far that an honest individual
cannot protect his/her investment. The only reason not to allow this
is greed not to stop pirates.

I'm not tryig to be an ass here but honestly, if someone doesn't like DRM
standards then they shouldn't buy anything that conforms to DRM.

I don't think you are an ass. I just don't totally agree with you. The
problem with buying nothing that conforms with DRM in the future is that
everything will so you will have no choices. It is just another face put
on UCITA. http://www.badsoftware.com/uccindex.htm. It is a bad law.
Under it the right to sell your car could be taken away because of the
software that is in it. The industry said they would never enforce that
part of the law. The problem is it is in the law so it would be legal
for them to do it. So why was it in there at their request? DRM the way
it is set up goes to far as Janis Ian as an owner of that content states.

Going back to consumer goods....NO, no one has the Right To Consumer Goods.
That in itself means that no one HAS to sell you anything and you are never
forced to buy anything.

Consumers are protected AFTER a purchase.

I purchased the cd. After the purchase I make a copy of it to take to
the beach so the original doesn't get scratched up. That is protected
under fair use. There is no way I can do this before I purchase it so
why would the laws protect me before the purchase?
Consumers do have a right to consumer goods. If you write bad checks the
merchant can refuse to accept a check from you but but if you have cash
he cannot refuse you the sale no matter how much he dislikes you. If you
want to rent an apartment you do have a right to that consumer good. NO
you cannot put these on the same plane as digital goods but it proves
that consumers do have rights to consumer goods. And these right are
protected before and after the sale. Some before and some after.

 

[caver1]

Being that DRM is being forced down everyone's throats and everything in
the future will be DRM protected then now is the time to complain and
try to find a compromise. If I buy a legal copy of a cd. I should be
able to make a copy of it either on my MP3 player for my own use or a
copy of it for use at the beach so the original doesn't get scratched
up. I protected my investment. DRM goes so far that an honest individual
cannot protect his/her investment. The only reason not to allow this
is greed not to stop pirates.

I don't think you are an ass. I just don't totally agree with you. The
problem with buying nothing that conforms with DRM in the future is that
everything will so you will have no choices. It is just another face put
on UCITA. http://www.badsoftware.com/uccindex.htm. It is a bad law.
Under it the right to sell your car could be taken away because of the
software that is in it. The industry said they would never enforce that
part of the law. The problem is it is in the law so it would be legal
for them to do it. So why was it in there at their request? DRM the way
it is set up goes to far as Janis Ian as an owner of that content states.

I forgot to state that the reason for bringing up UCTIA and giving a
link for research into it is that all throughout those discussions, and
many of the are written by lawyers, they talk about consumers rights
under various laws including fair use.

 

[Justin]

I've got nothing to hide and that email is no longer any good.


Thanks,
Justin Emlay
System Administrator
Maisto International, Inc.
909-357-7988 ext.360
909-357-9958 fax
(e-mail address removed)
www.maisto.com

 

[Dale]

Just forward his posts about "free windows and office" to his corporate
offices. He'll learn.

Dale

 

[Justin]

" Being that DRM is being forced down everyone's throats"
"The problem with buying nothing that conforms with DRM in the future is
that everything will so you will have no choices."

This is where we disagree. If MS wants to support DRM then that's THEIR
right. It's their product. OSX anyone? Linux? I don't feel the future is
100% DRM. There will always be a way around any security and we'll always
be able to backup our products.

 

[Dale]

Try backing up a DVD. You can't do it. If you do do it in the United
States you are breaking the law.

Dale

 

[Paul-B]

Try backing up a DVD. You can't do it. If you do do it in the
United States you are breaking the law.

Dale

I back up DVDs all the time.

But then like most of the world, I'm not in Amerika (home of the
free...)

 

[DCR]

| But then like most of the world, I'm not in Amerika (home of the| free...)
| Paul-B

Yeah, Amerika, home of the free... free to be incarcerated indefinitely at
the sole discretion of a reptilian Republican President that admits he
hears voices...free to witness the disappearance of the middle class
while the ultra-rich get huge tax breaks...free to watch over 3000
Amerikan soldiers get killed and hundreds of thousands of innocent
Iraqis slaughtered in a criminal war of choice based on lies...free to
watch Hurricane Katrina victims still homeless while the remains of
their homes get stolen out from under them and sold to developers,
etc., etc., etc,...

Oh yeah, life here in the US is so great under this monster government
that the Christian Religious Right and the Reactionary Republican
Conservatives have stolen and shoved down out throats and up out asses...

DCR

 

[Justin]

Try backing up a DVD. You can't do it. If you do do it in the United

States you are breaking the law.

Dale

Again, what's your point? If you don't like it then don't buy it. In no
fashion are your rights being taken away.

 

[Justin]

Dale wrote: "Just forward his posts about "free windows and office" to his
corporate offices. He'll learn."

Knock youself out. It'll get forwarded to me then I'll have your email
address in which to abuse in return.

You can't fake it either, we use SPF.

 

[Nina DiBoy]

Dale wrote: "Just forward his posts about "free windows and office" to his
corporate offices. He'll learn."

Knock youself out. It'll get forwarded to me then I'll have your email
address in which to abuse in return.

You can't fake it either, we use SPF.

But you removed all your information right quick, LOL.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Justin]

Again you ASSume too much. Usually I remembered to remove it. Sometimes I
didn't. Either way I don't care.

What you will notice now is that I use a completely different news reader.
Of which I haven't setup any signatures yet. But I would not have expected
you to figure that out. You'll also notice I specifically posted my info
again in a standard format to prove my point. But then again, I wouldn't
expect you to pay attention to detail.

Got anything else to be wrong about?

 

[Nina DiBoy]

Again you ASSume too much. Usually I remembered to remove it.
Sometimes I didn't. Either way I don't care.

What you will notice now is that I use a completely different news
reader. Of which I haven't setup any signatures yet. But I would not
have expected you to figure that out. You'll also notice I specifically
posted my info again in a standard format to prove my point. But then
again, I wouldn't expect you to pay attention to detail.

Got anything else to be wrong about?

I notice that everyone that doesn't say exactly what you want to hear is
wrong or lying, LOL. My teenaged sons don't even have such an immature
attitude.



--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot