A
Alias
Troy said:
Considering that a judge in Spain recently ruled that P2P music
downloads constitute "fair use" and is not a crime, it will be
interesting to see what version of Vista is released in Spain.
Alias
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
prediction: vista will be attacked like no other OS in history
Considering that a judge in Spain recently ruled that P2P music
downloads constitute "fair use" and is not a crime, it will be
interesting to see what version of Vista is released in Spain.
Alias
R
Roy Coorne
Alias said:Now it's Thunderbird on Ubuntu ( :
Yes, Sir!
"User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061117)"
Congrats!
Roy
J
Justin
I didn't see anywhere where he claimed to have stolen anything. But I can't
speak for him. In my case, my company buys volume licenses for everything.
I get my OS and Office versions for free as well. What you might ASSume is
that we run more licenses then we bought which would be false. Myself and
the entire IT staff as well as managers are allowed to use a purchased
license for their own personal use.
speak for him. In my case, my company buys volume licenses for everything.
I get my OS and Office versions for free as well. What you might ASSume is
that we run more licenses then we bought which would be false. Myself and
the entire IT staff as well as managers are allowed to use a purchased
license for their own personal use.
D
Dale
Just because a judge makes a ruling doesn't mean the ruling is right. Human
beings are born with a conscience and, except for sociopaths, people know
right from wrong regardless of what any judge says. Borrowing my original
CD is fair use. Taking a copy so that you can listen to it at the same time
I listen to it is stealing.
Dale
beings are born with a conscience and, except for sociopaths, people know
right from wrong regardless of what any judge says. Borrowing my original
CD is fair use. Taking a copy so that you can listen to it at the same time
I listen to it is stealing.
Dale
Alias said:Troy said:as far as drm, its really something the record companies pushed and
pushed. from a business standpoint, can you blame them? and from the
standpoint of MS, can you blame THEM? again... its business. and you
would do the same thing if it was your call. if not, your company wouldnt
be where MS is today. get over it folks
Considering that a judge in Spain recently ruled that P2P music downloads
constitute "fair use" and is not a crime, it will be interesting to see
what version of Vista is released in Spain.
Alias
D
Dale
That's a real unusual perk. I'm happy for you, your IT staff, and managers.
Dale
Dale
A
Alias
Dale said:Just because a judge makes a ruling doesn't mean the ruling is right.
Human beings are born with a conscience and, except for sociopaths,
people know right from wrong regardless of what any judge says.
Borrowing my original CD is fair use. Taking a copy so that you can
listen to it at the same time I listen to it is stealing.
Dale
Please, the music industry whined when reel to reel tape recorders came
out about how they were going to go out of business. They did the same
thing with cassettes. If you want to support greed and say that the
large corporations' disdain for their paying customers is "right",
that's your business but don't expect me to agree or shed one tear for them.
Alias
D
Dale
Copying your LPs to cassette and giving those copies to your friends would
have been stealing too. Whether or not you shed a tear for the record
companies.
Dale
have been stealing too. Whether or not you shed a tear for the record
companies.
Dale
Alias said:Dale said:Just because a judge makes a ruling doesn't mean the ruling is right.
Human beings are born with a conscience and, except for sociopaths,
people know right from wrong regardless of what any judge says.
Borrowing my original CD is fair use. Taking a copy so that you can
listen to it at the same time I listen to it is stealing.
Dale
Please, the music industry whined when reel to reel tape recorders came
out about how they were going to go out of business. They did the same
thing with cassettes. If you want to support greed and say that the large
corporations' disdain for their paying customers is "right", that's your
business but don't expect me to agree or shed one tear for them.
Alias
M
MICHAEL
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2002-10-22-oped-ian_x.htm
By Janis Ian for USA TODAY
Music industry spins falsehood
The recording industry says downloading music from the Internet is ruining our business,
destroying sales and costing artists such as me money.
Costing me money?
I don't pretend to be an expert on intellectual property law, but I do know one thing: If a
record executive says he will make me more money, I'd immediately protect my wallet.
Still, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is now in federal court trying to
gain new powers to personally target Internet users in lawsuits for trading music files online.
In a motion filed with the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, the RIAA is
demanding that an Internet service provider, Verizon, turn over the name and contact
information of one of its Internet subscribers who, the RIAA claims, might have unauthorized
copies of songs on a home computer.
Attacking your own customers because they want to learn more about your products is a bizarre
business strategy, one the music industry cannot afford to continue. Yet the RIAA effectively
destroyed Napster on such grounds, and now it is using the same crazy logic to take on Internet
service providers and even privacy rights.
The RIAA's claim that the industry and artists are hurt by free downloading is nonsense.
Consider my experience: I'm a recording artist who has sold multiple platinum records since the
1960s. My site, janisian.com, began offering free downloads in July. About a thousand people
per day have downloaded my music, most of them people who had never heard of me and never
bought my CDs.
Welcome to 'Acousticville'
On the first day I posted downloadable music, my merchandise sales tripled, and they have
stayed that way ever since. I'm not about to become a zillionaire as a result, but I am making
more money. At a time when radio playlists are tighter and any kind of exposure is hard to come
by, 365,000 copies of my work now will be heard. Even if only 3% of those people come to
concerts or buy my CDs, I've gained about 10,000 new fans this year.
That's how artists become successful: exposure. Without exposure, no one comes to shows, and no
one buys CDs. After 37 years as a recording artist, when people write to tell me that they came
to my concert because they downloaded a song and got curious, I am thrilled.
Who's really hurt by free downloads? The executives at major labels who twiddled their thumbs
for years while company after company begged them to set up "micropayment" protocols and to
license material for Internet-download sales.
Listen up
Many artists now benefit greatly from the free-download systems the RIAA seeks to destroy.
These musicians, especially those without a major-label contract, can reach millions of new
listeners with a downloadable song, enticing music fans to buy a CD or come to a concert of an
artist they would have otherwise missed.
The RIAA and the entrenched music industry argue that free downloads are threats. The music
industry had exactly the same response to the advent of reel-to-reel home tape recorders,
cassettes, DATs, minidiscs, VCRs, music videos, MTV and a host of other products and services.
I am not advocating indiscriminate downloading without the artist's permission. Copyright
protection is vital. But I do object to the industry spin that it is doing all this to protect
artists. It is not protecting us; it is protecting itself.
I hope the court rejects the efforts of the music industry to assault the Internet and the
music fans who use it. Speaking as an artist, I want us to work together - industry leaders,
musicians, songwriters and consumers - to make technology work for all of us.
Janis Ian's popular-music credits include 17 major-label albums, nine Grammy nominations and 37
years of experience in the music industry.
http://www.janisian.com/
By Janis Ian for USA TODAY
Music industry spins falsehood
The recording industry says downloading music from the Internet is ruining our business,
destroying sales and costing artists such as me money.
Costing me money?
I don't pretend to be an expert on intellectual property law, but I do know one thing: If a
record executive says he will make me more money, I'd immediately protect my wallet.
Still, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is now in federal court trying to
gain new powers to personally target Internet users in lawsuits for trading music files online.
In a motion filed with the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, the RIAA is
demanding that an Internet service provider, Verizon, turn over the name and contact
information of one of its Internet subscribers who, the RIAA claims, might have unauthorized
copies of songs on a home computer.
Attacking your own customers because they want to learn more about your products is a bizarre
business strategy, one the music industry cannot afford to continue. Yet the RIAA effectively
destroyed Napster on such grounds, and now it is using the same crazy logic to take on Internet
service providers and even privacy rights.
The RIAA's claim that the industry and artists are hurt by free downloading is nonsense.
Consider my experience: I'm a recording artist who has sold multiple platinum records since the
1960s. My site, janisian.com, began offering free downloads in July. About a thousand people
per day have downloaded my music, most of them people who had never heard of me and never
bought my CDs.
Welcome to 'Acousticville'
On the first day I posted downloadable music, my merchandise sales tripled, and they have
stayed that way ever since. I'm not about to become a zillionaire as a result, but I am making
more money. At a time when radio playlists are tighter and any kind of exposure is hard to come
by, 365,000 copies of my work now will be heard. Even if only 3% of those people come to
concerts or buy my CDs, I've gained about 10,000 new fans this year.
That's how artists become successful: exposure. Without exposure, no one comes to shows, and no
one buys CDs. After 37 years as a recording artist, when people write to tell me that they came
to my concert because they downloaded a song and got curious, I am thrilled.
Who's really hurt by free downloads? The executives at major labels who twiddled their thumbs
for years while company after company begged them to set up "micropayment" protocols and to
license material for Internet-download sales.
Listen up
Many artists now benefit greatly from the free-download systems the RIAA seeks to destroy.
These musicians, especially those without a major-label contract, can reach millions of new
listeners with a downloadable song, enticing music fans to buy a CD or come to a concert of an
artist they would have otherwise missed.
The RIAA and the entrenched music industry argue that free downloads are threats. The music
industry had exactly the same response to the advent of reel-to-reel home tape recorders,
cassettes, DATs, minidiscs, VCRs, music videos, MTV and a host of other products and services.
I am not advocating indiscriminate downloading without the artist's permission. Copyright
protection is vital. But I do object to the industry spin that it is doing all this to protect
artists. It is not protecting us; it is protecting itself.
I hope the court rejects the efforts of the music industry to assault the Internet and the
music fans who use it. Speaking as an artist, I want us to work together - industry leaders,
musicians, songwriters and consumers - to make technology work for all of us.
Janis Ian's popular-music credits include 17 major-label albums, nine Grammy nominations and 37
years of experience in the music industry.
http://www.janisian.com/
D
Dale
First off, that's one man's opinion. And not a bad opinion at all. But,
just the same, let me snip all but the one point I want to highlight from
his talk:
He's right that the RIAA is only protecting its members and not artists,
especially minor artists. But just the same, as the artist you quote says,
"Copyright protection is vital."
Downloading without the artists's or copyright owner's permission is
stealing.
Your post proves my point.
Dale
just the same, let me snip all but the one point I want to highlight from
his talk:
I am not advocating indiscriminate downloading without the artist's
permission. Copyright protection is vital. But I do object to the industry
spin that it is doing all this to protect artists. It is not protecting
us; it is protecting itself.
He's right that the RIAA is only protecting its members and not artists,
especially minor artists. But just the same, as the artist you quote says,
"Copyright protection is vital."
Downloading without the artists's or copyright owner's permission is
stealing.
Your post proves my point.
Dale
M
MICHAEL
First off, that's a woman's opinion.
Second, you remain ignorant of my point and many others
who do not argue stealing is right- but, the lengths that the
recording industry and Microsoft have gone in protecting
their copyrights are a waste of time and becoming more and
more just a major inconvenience to paying customers.
Third, WGA and DRM have not and will not stop piracy.
Period. Get a clue.
-Michael
Second, you remain ignorant of my point and many others
who do not argue stealing is right- but, the lengths that the
recording industry and Microsoft have gone in protecting
their copyrights are a waste of time and becoming more and
more just a major inconvenience to paying customers.
Third, WGA and DRM have not and will not stop piracy.
Period. Get a clue.
-Michael
D
Dale
How does the quote you posted support the idea that WGA and DRM do not stop
piracy? That quote only supports the idea that downloading software for
free is not a bad thing for the artist. Of course it ignores the fact that
the artist is only one part of the expense of creating and distributing a
CD.
You keep saying your argument is about WGA and DRM but your statements keep
rationalizing downloading music for free, with or without permission.
Pick a side of the argument and stick with it.
Dale
piracy? That quote only supports the idea that downloading software for
free is not a bad thing for the artist. Of course it ignores the fact that
the artist is only one part of the expense of creating and distributing a
CD.
You keep saying your argument is about WGA and DRM but your statements keep
rationalizing downloading music for free, with or without permission.
Pick a side of the argument and stick with it.
Dale
J
Justin
Every time you download an MP3 you keep an RIAA member from buying YET
ANOTHER porch.
Steeling music is BAD. Instead of making billions they only
make...well....billions, but that's not the point. The point is they need
to make as many billions as possible.
Let's take artists that have only been around for as long as pirating MP3s
has been an issue.
Eminem - The last time I checked, he's sitting pretty.
Spears - The last time I checked, she sitting...well...ugly but well off.
Feel free to add to the list. You'll notice I picked "artists" from two
different target audiences. Mostly children/young adults and then I
targeted a group that would most likely steal.
ANOTHER porch.
Steeling music is BAD. Instead of making billions they only
make...well....billions, but that's not the point. The point is they need
to make as many billions as possible.
Let's take artists that have only been around for as long as pirating MP3s
has been an issue.
Eminem - The last time I checked, he's sitting pretty.
Spears - The last time I checked, she sitting...well...ugly but well off.
Feel free to add to the list. You'll notice I picked "artists" from two
different target audiences. Mostly children/young adults and then I
targeted a group that would most likely steal.
J
Justin
No it's not. Same deal with my last job, same deal at my wifes work and
same deal at a friends office minus the office software.
Last job - Medical Industry
Wife - Education
Friend - Graphics/Printing
How many employees do you think take a laptop home? Same thing.
same deal at a friends office minus the office software.
Last job - Medical Industry
Wife - Education
Friend - Graphics/Printing
How many employees do you think take a laptop home? Same thing.
A
Alias
Dale said:First off, that's one man's opinion. And not a bad opinion at all.
But, just the same, let me snip all but the one point I want to
highlight from his talk:
If you go to HER web site, you would find that the artist is female. You
must be really young not to have heard of Janis Ian. Download a song and
maybe you'll go out and buy a CD.
Alias
D
Dale
Taking a laptop home is not the same as the company buying you software for
personal use. Now that you've expanded your statement, I find it even
harder to believe. I have a laptop that I can take home. That is not the
same thing as giving a copy of Windows or Office. The company allows me to
take a laptop home so that I can work from home. They would not give me a
copy of Windows to take home; that would be ridiculous. The expectation
would be that, if I have a computer to put it on, I would already have
Windows.
I have an MSDN subscription at work that explicitly permits me to use a copy
on any PC that I develop on, as long as only I develop on that PC. Even
that I don't copy at home; I bought my own for home so that I own it even if
I lose my job.
Office used to include a license that allowed you to use one copy on your
desktop and one on a laptop or home PC. It has not included that licensing
since Office 2000 (I think).
Dale
personal use. Now that you've expanded your statement, I find it even
harder to believe. I have a laptop that I can take home. That is not the
same thing as giving a copy of Windows or Office. The company allows me to
take a laptop home so that I can work from home. They would not give me a
copy of Windows to take home; that would be ridiculous. The expectation
would be that, if I have a computer to put it on, I would already have
Windows.
I have an MSDN subscription at work that explicitly permits me to use a copy
on any PC that I develop on, as long as only I develop on that PC. Even
that I don't copy at home; I bought my own for home so that I own it even if
I lose my job.
Office used to include a license that allowed you to use one copy on your
desktop and one on a laptop or home PC. It has not included that licensing
since Office 2000 (I think).
Dale
D
Dale
Stealing music is bad because we are civilized human beings who should not
take the property of others. In order to maintain civilization we require a
set of standards of behavior. These standards are based on common sense and
the common good. Organized religion encapsulates these standards in
"commandments". Organized governments encapsulate those standards in laws.
Even in anarchy, the standards of civilized behavior exists.
Stealing music is bad because it is stealing. Stealing, if accepted by
society, will bring about the end of society. None of the other arguments
about how good or bad the victim is or how destitute or needy or righteous
the theif is, matters at all.
Dale
take the property of others. In order to maintain civilization we require a
set of standards of behavior. These standards are based on common sense and
the common good. Organized religion encapsulates these standards in
"commandments". Organized governments encapsulate those standards in laws.
Even in anarchy, the standards of civilized behavior exists.
Stealing music is bad because it is stealing. Stealing, if accepted by
society, will bring about the end of society. None of the other arguments
about how good or bad the victim is or how destitute or needy or righteous
the theif is, matters at all.
Dale
A
Alias
Dale said:Stealing music is bad because we are civilized human beings who should
not take the property of others. In order to maintain civilization we
require a set of standards of behavior. These standards are based on
common sense and the common good. Organized religion encapsulates these
standards in "commandments". Organized governments encapsulate those
standards in laws. Even in anarchy, the standards of civilized behavior
exists.
Stealing music is bad because it is stealing. Stealing, if accepted by
society, will bring about the end of society. None of the other
arguments about how good or bad the victim is or how destitute or needy
or righteous the theif is, matters at all.
Dale
Well, when everyone's as perfect as you, we'll have world peace. In the
meantime, people will share music whether you like it or not.
Alias
D
Dale
My bad. Actually, I'm 51 and I have heard of Janis Ian and, in fact, have a
couple Janis Ian CDs in my media library. I overlooked the line stating the
author's name by associating the author line with the paper name, USA Today
and focused more on the content.
couple Janis Ian CDs in my media library. I overlooked the line stating the
author's name by associating the author line with the paper name, USA Today
and focused more on the content.
C
caver1
Dale said:First off, that's one man's opinion. And not a bad opinion at all.
But, just the same, let me snip all but the one point I want to
highlight from his talk:
He's right that the RIAA is only protecting its members and not artists,
especially minor artists. But just the same, as the artist you quote
says, "Copyright protection is vital."
Downloading without the artists's or copyright owner's permission is
stealing.
Your post proves my point.
Dale
He's a she
C
caver1
Dale said:First off, that's one man's opinion. And not a bad opinion at all.
But, just the same, let me snip all but the one point I want to
highlight from his talk:
He's right that the RIAA is only protecting its members and not artists,
especially minor artists. But just the same, as the artist you quote
says, "Copyright protection is vital."
Downloading without the artists's or copyright owner's permission is
stealing.
Your post proves my point.
Dale
Well if you do it right how can the RIAA get you for stealing. You pay
royalties on the blank medias and the burners or recorders that you
purchase for what music you might burn. So if you already paid the
royalties how can you be stealing? By doing it right I mean buying the
proper media.
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.