(PLW) POLL: QUICK VOTE NOW -Important changes!

[Alastair Smeaton]

Concerning the Pricelessware Site!
Vote for Number 1 or Number 2.

my vote is for 1

Rationale - if I want to know which is a good firewall, I find it very
helpful to see the pricelessware top 3 (or however many).

I may end up with the one which received fewest votes, because I try
one and find it does not do what I want, or I see posts in the NG
about benefits of one over another -however, I want some help to know
which one to look at first - therefore the votes help me.

For most categories, there are a few contenders - others there is one
standout item. e.g. Irfanview is very popular.

cheers

PS - I have fallen into the trap of debating when a simple vote was
asked for - couldn't resist it - should have taken my lead from John C
- in this case, the soul of brevity Well done John

 

[stan]

==THE VOTE IS NOW CLOSED==

12 people picked Number 1

7 people picked Number 2

the votes were:

stan 1
cathe.b 1
Steven Burn 1
REM 1
John Corliss 1
glen 1
canetoad 1
mike555 1
lydgate 1
photo dan 1
sea side 1
Alastair Smeaton 1


cactus 2
Bjorn Simonsen 2
jo 2
faded glory 2?
badgolferman 2
barry tone 2
MLC 2

thanks to all who participated.

regards
stan

 

[Jim Butterfield]

If the vote hasn't ended I suggest you post the vote count to date. That
information would be helpful.

My usenet server doesn't catch everything, but I get the following
totals (details below):

Voted 1: 7 posts
Voted 2: 5 posts
Unwilling to vote either way, or protested the wording of the
question: 7 posts

Details from my server; others might catch more:

Voted 1: stan, Steven Burn, REM, John Corliss, Glenn, Canetoad,
mike555
Voted 2: cactus, Bjorn_Simonsen, jo, FadedGlory, badgolferman
Refused vote or protested: rl, I'm_Serious, =?ISO-8859..., burnr,
PuppyKatt, Jim_Butterfield, MLC

From my server's results, it doesn't look like a landslide for #1.

--Jim

 

[=?iso-8859-1?Q?Omar=A9?=]

Ditto.......

--

Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Ditto.............
Omar

 

[Ben Cooper]

==THE VOTE IS NOW CLOSED==

12 people picked Number 1

7 people picked Number 2

the votes were:

stan 1
cathe.b 1
Steven Burn 1
REM 1
John Corliss 1
glen 1
canetoad 1
mike555 1
lydgate 1
photo dan 1
sea side 1
Alastair Smeaton 1


cactus 2
Bjorn Simonsen 2
jo 2
faded glory 2?
badgolferman 2
barry tone 2
MLC 2

thanks to all who participated.

The chance for me to vote has passed? When the vote was proposed there
should have been a clearly stated ending date. I was still considering
the pros and cons of each choice.
The closing of the vote should not have been announced several threads
deep, either.
IMO, this wasn't a valid voting process and the results should be
discarded.

Sorry, stan. You lose. Again.

 

[Vic Dura]

2) I want to allow the relevance of the material in the program
details to be left to the discretion of the hard-working people who
put it together.

(Same question, just a little adjustment to the wording).

Please vote (1) or (2) now.

2

 

[PuppyKatt]

Don't put words into my mouth. I do not recall protesting, I do
remember making an attemt to clarify the purpose of showing the final
vote counts.

: On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:56:47 -0400, Susan Bugher
:
: >If the vote hasn't ended I suggest you post the vote count to date.
That
: >information would be helpful.
:
: My usenet server doesn't catch everything, but I get the following
: totals (details below):
:
: Voted 1: 7 posts
: Voted 2: 5 posts
: Unwilling to vote either way, or protested the wording of the
: question: 7 posts
:
: Details from my server; others might catch more:
:
: Voted 1: stan, Steven Burn, REM, John Corliss, Glenn, Canetoad,
: mike555
: Voted 2: cactus, Bjorn_Simonsen, jo, FadedGlory, badgolferman
: Refused vote or protested: rl, I'm_Serious, =?ISO-8859..., burnr,
: PuppyKatt, Jim_Butterfield, MLC
:
: From my server's results, it doesn't look like a landslide for #1.
:
: --Jim
:
:
:
:
:
:

 

[REM]

(e-mail address removed) (Jim Butterfield) wrote:

My usenet server doesn't catch everything, but I get the following
totals (details below):

Voted 1: 7 posts
Voted 2: 5 posts
Unwilling to vote either way, or protested the wording of the
question: 7 posts

Details from my server; others might catch more:

Voted 1: stan, Steven Burn, REM, John Corliss, Glenn, Canetoad,
mike555

Voted 2: cactus, Bjorn_Simonsen, jo, FadedGlory, badgolferman

Refused vote or protested: rl, I'm_Serious, =?ISO-8859..., burnr,
PuppyKatt, Jim_Butterfield, MLC

I get:

Voted 1:
Stan
Cathe B
Steven Burn
Omar
Glenn
REM
John C.
Canetoad
lydgate
mike555
PhotoDan
seaside
Alastair

Voted 2:
cactus
jo
Fadedglory
Barrytone
badgolferman

Plus those happy with things as they are (did not vote):
burnr
RL
PuppyKatt
Jim_Butterfield
MLC

Can't really tell:
I'm_Serious

Maybe a clear opinion could have been drawn had the question been
worded more fairly. I don't feel it is necessary, but if others can
utilize the information I have nothing against it being added,
particularily on a side page somewhere.

I think the actual count would better be served after the vote is
finalized though. That is, make a copy\paste list of all programs that
made the list and allow all interested to remove any programs they do
not use, or would not recommend.

The results posted could be of some value, depending on how many
people respond and how accurately the list is edited by each before
being posted. It could even contain 'anti-votes' by people who have
used the program and had problems with it, giving the OS used.

I'm fine either way the chips fall.

 

[Mike Andrade]

Concerning the Pricelessware Site!
Vote for Number 1 or Number 2.

In the spirit of this thread, I'd like to propose a vote. It's very
important. Trust me.

Vote for Number 1 or Number 2.

1. All pricelessware vote counts must be posted on the pricelessware
site, along with the names, addresses and social security numbers of
all those who voted and the thread headers in which they voted. If the
voters are not American and don't have SS numbers, their votes must
include a valid credit card number and expiration date. In the event
they don't have a valid credit card, they will be caught, flogged,
drawn and quartered, sexually molested, and then set free in the wild.

2. No pricelessware votes or threads should be made public. They must
all be hidden and counted only by the GREAT CABAL.

 

[John Fitzsimons]

I vote #1 , I think all results should be public.... Mike

Try paying attention. They are public. But not on the PL site.

 

[John Fitzsimons]

1) I want the program details to be cluttered up with a lot of
irrelevant material that won't help us judge the value of a program.
As part of this, I want it to be possible for the voting system to be
flooded with people hustling their pet products, so that the listed
programs will seem more useful than they really are. Please load up
the listings, while I think of more junk that can be shoehorned in
there.

< snip >

Exactly right. Suppose developer "B" sees that developer "A's" program
was "Priceless" at 5 votes. What does he do ? He gets 6 of his staff
to vote next time. Making the whole PL voting exercise pointless.

 

[Terry Russell]

You are implying in option #2 that the PL vote will be kept hidden
form the public. This is plain false, and to put this as the leading
text for a vote makes it as biased as it can get. "Have you ever
stopped beating your wife yet?"

"Have you stopped beating your wife?"

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tendentious
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=demagogue

cheap tricks
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

How can it be that a call for openness takes such a closed form?
I doubt their motives and thus would vote for 2, excepting that such would
lend them legitimacy by opposition, and that I would otherwise tend
to support 1.

"you are either for us or against us"
"then Sir, should you press me so, I am against us"

said the contrary black duck, now where did I put my crown of thorns?

 

[stan]

Try paying attention. They are public. But not on the PL site.

He was paying attention! you see they are "hidden" from the public who
visit the pricelessware site, the vote clearly states.
(this concerns visitors of the pricelessware site)

the wording is correct and most people understood and voted accordingly

think about it...

regards
stan

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

the wording is correct and most people understood and voted
accordingly

The wording was ridiculous, and most people did not vote at all.

 

[omega]

In the spirit of this thread, I'd like to propose a vote. It's very
important. Trust me.

Vote for Number 1 or Number 2.

1. All pricelessware vote counts must be posted on the pricelessware
site, along with the names, addresses and social security numbers of
all those who voted and the thread headers in which they voted. If the
voters are not American and don't have SS numbers, their votes must
include a valid credit card number and expiration date. In the event
they don't have a valid credit card, they will be caught, flogged,
drawn and quartered, sexually molested, and then set free in the wild.

2. No pricelessware votes or threads should be made public. They must
all be hidden and counted only by the GREAT CABAL.

Well done. That is a very apt reflection of the way stan laid out his pretend
"call for votes."

Since this time the manipulation of phrasing lies less towards "1," I hence
choose #2 from the above...especially if the sekrit vote counters in the
CABAL might include (yes I know you can't tell me who they are 'cause of
your tinc propaganda) historic nanu members such as Fluffy (the real Fluffy),
on whom I'd long had a girlish crush....and that's as good a reason as any
to vote one way or another...when the "vote choices" have been formed the
way they were in this littleman stan thread.

So, pls offisssially sign me under vote #2.

 

[omega]

: My usenet server doesn't catch everything, but I get the following
: totals (details below):
:
: Voted 1: 7 posts
: Voted 2: 5 posts
: Unwilling to vote either way, or protested the wording of the
: question: 7 posts
:
: Details from my server; others might catch more:
:
: Voted 1: stan, Steven Burn, REM, John Corliss, Glenn, Canetoad,
: mike555
: Voted 2: cactus, Bjorn_Simonsen, jo, FadedGlory, badgolferman
: Refused vote or protested: rl, I'm_Serious, =?ISO-8859..., burnr,
: PuppyKatt, Jim_Butterfield, MLC
:
: From my server's results, it doesn't look like a landslide for #1.

Don't put words into my mouth. I do not recall protesting, I do
remember making an attemt to clarify the purpose of showing the final
vote counts.

I appreciate his post. After seeing his efforts, I felt inspired to do
something similar. I grouped reactions to stan's pseudo poll in about
five categories. Preserved relevant quotes from each poster to represent
why I categorized them one way or other. Yet I then had to face that
I'd inevitably annoy several or more posters by misrepresenting their
opinions. The wide, messy array of response here was an inevitable result
of the nature of stan's post.

ACF is at its best when we discuss new ideas first, then agree on realistic,
clearly defined choices, last put forth a -sincere- vote call.

Not leapfrog into titling threads "Important changes!" Nor invent as single
alternate choice an impossibility of "hide everything!" Etc.

I think the significant finaly count here here concerns the number of
folks who consider stan's pseudo-form of alleged "vote call" to be silly,
manipulative, invalid.

 

[jo]

the wording is correct and most people understood and voted accordingly

The wording was weighted in favour of a vote for your preferred option.
A standard tactic, and one that many have commented on.

 

[ncSkeet]

I didn't vote because I felt that the only way this process could be
valid would be if everyone who wanted to vote were given the opportunity
to assess each program listed for a stated amount of time. The way it's
being done now, we don't know if the person who voted for a particular
program has even "test driven" the other program(s). I've downloaded
freeware and been happy enough with it that I didn't bother to download
and try the other listed programs. So there's no valid way, in my
opinion, that these programs can be measured against each other. There
are other points that could be made, but you can probably figure them
out yourself if you see where I'm going with this.

My opinion...ncSkeet

 

[I'm Serious]

I appreciate his post. After seeing his efforts, I felt inspired to do
something similar. I grouped reactions to stan's pseudo poll in about
five categories. Preserved relevant quotes from each poster to represent
why I categorized them one way or other. Yet I then had to face that
I'd inevitably annoy several or more posters by misrepresenting their
opinions. The wide, messy array of response here was an inevitable result
of the nature of stan's post.

ACF is at its best when we discuss new ideas first, then agree on realistic,
clearly defined choices, last put forth a -sincere- vote call.

Not leapfrog into titling threads "Important changes!" Nor invent as single
alternate choice an impossibility of "hide everything!" Etc.

I think the significant finaly count here here concerns the number of
folks who consider stan's pseudo-form of alleged "vote call" to be silly,
manipulative, invalid.

From the beginning Stan has acted like a "TROLL" with the "Pricelessware
site is pathetic" posting, and then a call for a vote, on a self-serving
desire which may or may not benefit acf, which I consider to be
out-of-order and invalid.

 

[Pol Llovet]

Concerning the Pricelessware Site!
Vote for Number 1 or Number 2.


1)=I want to know what programs WON the acf freeware vote "AND"
how MUCH they won by. Please include this in the programs details.

or

2)=I want that information kept hidden from the public! and myself!


yes we are really voting for this!
This Concerns all visitors to the Pricelessware site.

Please Vote for Number 1 or Number 2

Regards
stan

#2 is my vote. but perhaps user submitted/moderated reviews (linked)
could be available. some programs have key deficiencies that you
won't know until you install and play with it. this can waste a lot
of cumulative time.