[PL] PL2005 General Discussion

[Susan Bugher]

Nominations are now open for the the 2005 Pricelessware list. This
thread is for general discussion. The Nominations page is here:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2005/2005PL-Nominations.php

The election schedule and procedures are here:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2005/2005PL-Procedures.php

and are repeated below.

-----------

PRELIMINARY - FOR DISCUSSION

Timetable for the 2005 vote.

October 1 - October 28, 2004 - Nominations And Discussion (4 Weeks)
October 29 - November 4, 2004 - Voting (1 Week)
November 5, 2004 - Vote Results Posted
November 6, 2005 - Preliminary Pricelessware List Posted
November 7 - November 13, 2004 - Final Selection Discussion (1 Week)
November 14, 2004 - Final Pricelessware List Posted

Criteria for Selection

The program should be one of the best Freeware programs available. The
Pricelessware List is a compilation of the favorite Freeware programs of
the readers of alt.comp.freeware. The goals of the Pricelessware List do
NOT include selecting programs to fit every subcategory. The programs
picked are not meant to be an exhaustive list of the best available
Freeware, but rather an answer to the often asked "which _____ is best?"

Eligibility for Nomination

Games are not eligible for the Pricelessware List.

Online software (Webware) is not eligible for the Pricelessware List.

The software must be available for download.

Programs must have acceptable ware descriptions to be eligible for
nomination.
See the Ware Glossary for definitions of ware types.

The following ware types are acceptable for nomination:

Freeware
Abandonware (non-Warez Abandonware is acceptable)
Betaware
Donationware
Liteware
Orphanware (non-Warez Orphanware is acceptable)
Registerware
Requestware

The following ware types are not acceptable for nomination:

Abandonware (Warez Abandonware is not acceptable)
Adware:
CDWare
Commercial Software
Crippleware
Demo-ware
Malware
Nagware
Orphanware (Warez Orphanware is not acceptable)
Shareware
Spyware
Trialware
Warez

The glossary's ware descriptions don't cover all situations. In special
cases programs may be placed on a Ware Ballot to determine if the
program's ware description is acceptable to newsgroup participants. The
Ware ballot is used only to determine elegibility.. A two-thirds
majority in favor of acceptance is required for a program to be
eligibile for the Pricelessware List. Voting on Pricelessware and Ware
Ballots is done in the same time period.

Program Descriptions

Program descriptions must be verified for new nominations (programs that
are not on the current Pricelessware List) before a program can be
nominated.

Programs descriptions may be submitted informally in the month preceding
the start of nominations. Submitting descriptions prior to the start of
nominations will greatly facilitate the nominating process.

Programs descriptions should include the information shown in the Notes
on preparing program descriptions.

A separate thread will be used to submit program descriptions during the
nomination process.

Nomination Procedure

Programs that are eligible for nomination will be listed in the first
post in the Pricelessware Nominations thread. When programs descriptions
are submitted after the start of nominations verification of eligibility
for nomination will be posted in the nominations thread. Nominations of
ineligible programs will not be recognized.

Nominations are made by posting the names of the programs you wish to
nominate/second.

Voting Procedure

A program must be nominated and seconded to be placed on the ballot.
These programs will be listed in the first post in the Pricelessware
Voting thread.

Ballots are cast by posting the names of the programs you wish to vote
for. Multiple ballots are permitted. If you wish to vote for additional
programs after your first vote is cast you may cast another ballot with
the names of your additional choices.

You may not withdraw a vote once it has been cast. Write in votes will
not be recognized.

Preliminary Selection procedure

Ware ballots are counted first. Programs that lose on this ballot are
removed from further consideration.

Votes are the primary consideration in the Pricelessware selection
process.. Programs that received the most votes are selected first. A
limited number of programs are selected for a category. A "minimum" vote
count is chosen to avoid "overfilling" categories (more than 3-4
selections). All programs that received this "minimum" number of votes
are selected.

Secondary consideration is given to subcategories. Pricelessware
selections are made in unfilled subcategories to broaden the range of
programs. Only one selection is made in a subcategory. Tie votes will be
discussed in the final selection thread. When several unfilled
subcategories have similar programs one program is selected and the
other subcategories are eliminated.. A second "minimum" is chosen to
minimize the disparity in vote count between selections in the high vote
subcategories and these selections in the less popular subcategories.
Subcategories are eliminated when they do not have any programs that
received the required minimum number of votes.

Final Selection Procedure

This is the "juried" part of the Pricelessware selection process. The
group as a whole has more expertise than one person.

After the preliminary Pricelessware List selections are made the list is
presented to acf participants for review. The final Pricelessware List
is determined by this discussion.

If you feel that a program of exceptional merit has been overlooked post
a request for inclusion.
If you feel that a program is not a good choice for the Pricelessware
List post your objections.

Removal Procedures

Programs are removed from the Pricelessware List. if they do not meet
the eligibility requirements. If it is learned that the program's ware
type is ineligible or it becomes ineligible the program is removed from
the Pricelessware List.. If a program becomes shareware and a "last
Freeware version" is not available for download the program is removed
from the Pricelessware List. If a program is not available for download
the program is removed from the Pricelessware List.

Notes on preparing program descriptions.

Copy the fields below. Add the program's description information after
the field. Copy additional fields as needed for the program description
(two file versions or a third link). If a program has both ZIP and EXE
versions include both. If a program has many versions (such as XnView)
include no more than two. If possible give the URL for a download page
(rather than a download link). Many sites offer multiple download
locations.and/or add-ons for the programs (language packs, plugins
etc.). List all ware types that apply. Note licensing information (open
source etc.) and restrictions (free for personal use) . If a field does
not appy note that information. The numbered fields are listed in the
order they occur in the program descriptions. Refer to the PL2004
Category pages for examples of descriptions. If you have questions about
what to include or need help finding the information post your questions
in the newsgroup.

CATEGORY:
SUBCATEGORY:
AUTHOR'S EMAIL ADDRESS (munged):

01 PROGRAM NAME:
02 WARE DESCRIPTION:
03 OS-WIN:
04 OS-NOTES:
05 OS-OTHER:
06 LANGUAGES:
07 DESCRIPTION AND NOTES
08 AUTHOR:
09 COMPANY:
10 LINK DESCRIPTION
11 LINK
12 FILE VERSION:
13 RELEASE DATE:
14 LANGUAGE
15 FILE NAME:
16 FILE SIZE:
17 LINK DESCRIPTION
18 LINK


***************


Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

re: displaying the results of the PL2005 ballot

A proposal was made to show vote counts on the PL web pages. There is a
fair amount of interest. There is a fair amount of opposition.

I think we should discuss some alternatives to see if there is a course
of action that's acceptable to both sides.

Last year as the election progressed I posted the vote tally on the
PL2004 Nominations page. The vote columns were omitted when the PL2004
selection process was complete. This year I could leave the PL2005 final
vote count on the Nominations web page if the group is in favor.

The Nomination page is the only PL web page that shows *all* the
programs that are voted on. IOW - it's the only PL web page that tells
the whole story. . .

Displaying the vote counts in the ACF wiki is another possibility. Other
ideas? Comments please.

Susan

 

[PuppyKatt]

: re: displaying the results of the PL2005 ballot
:
: A proposal was made to show vote counts on the PL web pages. There is
a
: fair amount of interest. There is a fair amount of opposition.
:
: I think we should discuss some alternatives to see if there is a
course
: of action that's acceptable to both sides.
:
: Last year as the election progressed I posted the vote tally on the
: PL2004 Nominations page. The vote columns were omitted when the PL2004
: selection process was complete. This year I could leave the PL2005
final
: vote count on the Nominations web page if the group is in favor.
:
: The Nomination page is the only PL web page that shows *all* the
: programs that are voted on. IOW - it's the only PL web page that tells
: the whole story. . .
:
: Displaying the vote counts in the ACF wiki is another possibility.
Other
: ideas? Comments please.
:
: Susan
: --
: Pricelessware/ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
: Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
: ACF FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
: ACF wiki: http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?AcfWiki
:
Whatever is the easiest for the person who is doing all of the work.

 

[cathair]

: re: displaying the results of the PL2005 ballot
:
: A proposal was made to show vote counts on the PL web pages. There is
a
: fair amount of interest. There is a fair amount of opposition.
:
: I think we should discuss some alternatives to see if there is a
course
: of action that's acceptable to both sides.
:
: Last year as the election progressed I posted the vote tally on the
: PL2004 Nominations page. The vote columns were omitted when the PL2004
: selection process was complete. This year I could leave the PL2005
final
: vote count on the Nominations web page if the group is in favor.
:
: The Nomination page is the only PL web page that shows *all* the
: programs that are voted on. IOW - it's the only PL web page that tells
: the whole story. . .
:
: Displaying the vote counts in the ACF wiki is another possibility.
Other
: ideas? Comments please.
:
: Susan
: --
: Pricelessware/ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
: Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
: ACF FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
: ACF wiki: http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?AcfWiki
:
Whatever is the easiest for the person who is doing all of the work.

Exactly!!!

 

[Ben Cooper]

re: displaying the results of the PL2005 ballot

A proposal was made to show vote counts on the PL web pages. There is
a fair amount of interest. There is a fair amount of opposition.

I think we should discuss some alternatives to see if there is a
course of action that's acceptable to both sides.

Last year as the election progressed I posted the vote tally on the
PL2004 Nominations page. The vote columns were omitted when the PL2004
selection process was complete. This year I could leave the PL2005
final vote count on the Nominations web page if the group is in favor.

The Nomination page is the only PL web page that shows *all* the
programs that are voted on. IOW - it's the only PL web page that tells
the whole story. . .

Displaying the vote counts in the ACF wiki is another possibility.
Other ideas? Comments please.

Speaking as a minion , the vote results have always been available by
searching the group by various means.
I suggest that it continue as it has before.
Let others record it for posterity.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Speaking as a minion ,

I thought minions were only supposed to speak when spoken to. Another
illusion shattered.

the vote results have always been available by

searching the group by various means.

Trolling aside. . . there *is* some interest in having a more
convenient way to find the votes and compare them.

I suggest that it continue as it has before.

In an attempt to satisfy both camps my preference ATM is to *leave* the
vote results on the *Nominations* page after the PL2005 selection
process is complete. If there are objections to that I'd like to hear
them.

Susan

 

[John Fitzsimons]

Speaking as a minion , the vote results have always been available by
searching the group by various means.
I suggest that it continue as it has before.

< snip >

Agreed.

 

[Ben Cooper]

I thought minions were only supposed to speak when spoken to. Another
illusion shattered.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME! IT WAS NOT MY INTENTION TO INVOKE YOUR WRATH!

the vote results have always been available by

Trolling aside. . . there *is* some interest in having a more
convenient way to find the votes and compare them.


In an attempt to satisfy both camps my preference ATM is to *leave*
the vote results on the *Nominations* page after the PL2005 selection
process is complete. If there are objections to that I'd like to hear
them.

No objection from me.
(*Please don't beat me!)

Seriously, though, I don't think it's an important issue. IMO, that call
for a vote held no merit and it's sole purpose was to disrupt the
Pricelessware discussion process.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Should I start a thread about the PL2005 CD now to discuss goals,
volunteers, how-to etc.?

If we wish to have a PL2005 CD available when the PL2005 goes online in
January it seems to me work (which includes requests for permission)
will have to start as soon as the PL2005 selection process is complete.

Susan

 

[Bjorn Simonsen]

Should I start a thread about the PL2005 CD now to discuss goals,
volunteers, how-to etc.?

If we wish to have a PL2005 CD available when the PL2005 goes online in
January it seems to me work (which includes requests for permission)
will have to start as soon as the PL2005 selection process is complete.

I have no input on the timing/thread thing, but a couple of
suggestions anyway (I could wait for the proper/more appropriate
thread and post my suggestions there, but fear I will forget.

1) if e-mailing authors for permission, maybe add a "PS" about free
hosting/storage/download space for ISO needed? You never know, one
of them might have sufficient space on his/their server and might
offer it...

2) For the final PL descriptions, when voting is done and CD is built,
fore each program description maybe add a "ON THE PLW CD:" entry, for
filling in yes/no when CD is done?

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen

 

[Susan Bugher]

I have no input on the timing/thread thing, but a couple of
suggestions anyway (I could wait for the proper/more appropriate
thread and post my suggestions there, but fear I will forget.

1) if e-mailing authors for permission, maybe add a "PS" about free
hosting/storage/download space for ISO needed? You never know, one
of them might have sufficient space on his/their server and might
offer it...

I dunno. Given the enormous demand during the few days we had an
"official" ISO online I'd say that would be asking a *lot*.

2) For the final PL descriptions, when voting is done and CD is built,
fore each program description maybe add a "ON THE PLW CD:" entry, for
filling in yes/no when CD is done?

That would be easy to do. The PL2004 did include this page with that
information:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2004/PL2004ProgramIndexCD.php

ISTM it would be helpful to have a PL2005 web page that shows which apps
are included *and* the versions that are included. That will be more
work. . .

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I dunno. Given the enormous demand during the few days we had an
"official" ISO online I'd say that would be asking a *lot*.



That would be easy to do. The PL2004 did include this page with that
information:

erm. . . make that The PL2004 *CD* included this page:

 

[Roger Johansson]

Susan Bugher wrote in <[email protected]>:

Good idea.

There are two categories of people who might want to host the CD:

1: Amateurs, who have very little resources, and often have to limit
their contribution in time or download capacity.
They are very optimistic to begin with, but they soon realize that they
have to limit or retract their help.

2: Admins and technical staff at big university or commercial company
servers. These guys have no limits and there are no problems.
They often have a more or less secret agreement with their employers that
they can do some own stuff on the side.

Welcome the help from amateurs, but wait for the pro's to give really
good hosting places.

Bjorn:

1) if e-mailing authors for permission, maybe add a "PS" about free
hosting/storage/download space for ISO needed? You never know, one
of them might have sufficient space on his/their server and might offer
it...

A few lines from another message:
Susan:
I dunno. Given the enormous demand during the few days we had an
"official" ISO online I'd say that would be asking a *lot*.

Roger:
Yes, I agree. Don't complicate things by mixing these tasks, getting
approval from authors, and finding good hosting.

I think the best is to take things one step at a time, let's create a
good CD (iso file) to begin with.

It is usually not too difficult to find a hosting place. Just don't waste
too much energy on people who do not actually have the resources needed.
Wait for the people who really have resources for the task.

To attract such help we need to get the iso ready first, and make up our
minds about the conditions for hosting the iso. There shouldn't be any
conditions. Just let people who want to help do it in their own way.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Good idea.

Okay, will do - probably tomorrow.

Susan

 

[jaze]

Should I start a thread about the PL2005 CD now to discuss goals,
volunteers, how-to etc.?
YES!!



If we wish to have a PL2005 CD available when the PL2005 goes online in
January it seems to me work (which includes requests for permission)
will have to start as soon as the PL2005 selection process is complete.

For next year, this should be a requirement for nominations.

That is to say, the description (author,app,version etc.) should include the
following question: "Contacted author for permission to include this app PL
CD?" (Y/N)(date)

This would give the author more time to respond.


Should the PL2005 CD have an update CD? (PL2005.5)

-j

 

[Susan Bugher]

For next year, this should be a requirement for nominations.

That is to say, the description (author,app,version etc.) should include the
following question: "Contacted author for permission to include this app PL
CD?" (Y/N)(date)

This would give the author more time to respond.

I dunno. I think the author has to be given all the information about
the CD - what we're doing, how we're doing it etc. when we request
approval. That would mean reviewing the Pricelessware CD goals and
procedures *before* we start PL Nominations.

The authors will have a couple of weeks to respond (depends somewhat on
how fast I can send out 200 - 300 personalized emails).

Should the PL2005 CD have an update CD? (PL2005.5)

Creating the CD is a lot of work. Updating it would require an equal
amount of effort. If the group wants to do this *and* people volunteer
for the job. . .

FWIW - not me babe. . .

Susan

 

[omega]

I dunno. I think the author has to be given all the information about
the CD - what we're doing, how we're doing it etc. when we request
approval. That would mean reviewing the Pricelessware CD goals and
procedures *before* we start PL Nominations.

One notably bad side-effect would be that it would mean notifying a
large number of authors whose programs don't win the PL. Many of them,
I'd think, aren't necessarily conscious that there programs have been
nominated. Why send them one mail about that, to later have to send
another: "Never mind. You LOST."

 

[Roger Johansson]

Just a thought.
Would it be possible to create the PL CD as a script, or a bat file?

That would solve several problems.

The iso creator only has to run the script, which downloads the programs,
puts them in the right folder structure. The script downloads the PL site
and other stuff which are to be included, and creates the iso file.

The script itself could be distributed easily, and others can create
their own PL iso files from it.

The risk for virus is eliminated in the script distribution,
because the programs are downloaded from their normal home sites.
And it would be easy to detect changes in the script because it is plain
text.

Do we have any script experts around here, who could help write a script
to download a bunch of files, and create an iso file? Yes, we do

Then we would only have to fill in the list of urls after the voting is
ready, and the script is ready for distribution. It can be distributed via
any text medium, in a newsgroup message, for example, so we can discuss
details in the script and agree on the details. In that way we could
create the CD by creating the script, and it could happen in public, here
in acf.

When the voting is over and the script is agreed upon the iso creator
just has to run the script and it creates an iso file.

This idea would also make updates easier. We can just change the script.
And the version number.
With the script method we could maybe create more than one version per
year of the PL CD.

It could also simplify the communication with the authors.
To begin with, a script needs no communication at all.

If the iso creator(s) are seen as private persons, not appointed by
Pricelessware, we do not have any responsibility for the distribution of
iso files or physical CD's.

The Pricelessware group only creates a script for creation of an iso.
Others may distribute the script as they like.

Or, the PL group takes responsibility only for the iso's and CD produced
by the appointed persons...?
Well, I don't know, but I think we could find a reasonable solution here
somewhere.

I know that we have participators who are interested in creation of CD's,
even self-booting ones, so we do probably have the necessary knowledge to
create such a script within acf.

 

[Susan Bugher]

And now a word from the resident idiot.

I *thought* I scheduled the PL election to start November 1. I should
have checked - didn't - and am sitting here with egg on my face.

My most humble apologises to all. The election will start as soon as I
get the ballot posts prepared. (The end date will be moved back to
compensate for the late start.)

Susan

 

[omega]

I *thought* I scheduled the PL election to start November 1.

[...]
That's what I thought. Maybe others too? =collective hallucination.

My most humble apologises to all. The election will start as soon as I
get the ballot posts prepared. (The end date will be moved back to
compensate for the late start.)

Was there anything left unresolved, that will go on the Ware ballot?
And if so, well, hm, maybe a suggestion for next year, given my timing,
but: I've wondered about having Ware ballot proceed in advance of the
general PL popularity voting.