Partition Magic

A

Al Klein

I think Al ... meant:

No, I meant that the systems (not sub-systems) I and others have
written to access the disk control hardware were known as Disk
Operating Systems. By us. At the time we were writing them. Back
when most of the people using them today were learning how to teethe.
One of mine is still operating disks after 29 years. And it was an
entire system with its own CPU, RAM, ROM, etc. Just to access a disk
drive.
 
G

Gary R. Schmidt

David wrote:
[SNIP]
Which has no bearing on the fact that NT is a DOS. It resides on a
disk and handles the I/O of disks.

Yes, they are all "Disk[-based] Operating Systems", they do not contain
a dos.
Early DOS were 8 bit, 16 bit and 32 bit if we are talking about the
IBM, MS and DR/Novell versions of operating systems for IBM PCs and
the various clones. Other operating systems, such as Linux and many
Unices, are also DOS. They are just not called DOS since IBM & MS
seemed to pre-empt the name and they wish to distance themselves from
the negative connotations.
Well some were 18 or 36 bit, and 9 bit too, probably even 4 bit, and
then there are the variable word-length architectures, very intriguing.

No doubt any value from 2 up to n could be considered as have a DOS and
some point.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
 
A

Al Klein

Early DOS were 8 bit, 16 bit and 32 bit if we are talking about the
IBM, MS and DR/Novell versions of operating systems for IBM PCs and
the various clones.

Those are late, not early. :)

SOLOS was an earlier disk operating system, as were Isis and CP/M
(which was a pretty blatant rip-off of Isis - as MSDOS was a pretty
blatant rip-off of CP/M). I don't go back much further than Isis in
disk operating systems, but I'm sure there were many before that.
Disks weren't exactly new in the late 60s/early 70s.
 
G

Gary R. Schmidt

Al said:
And the people who actually WRITE the systems. The software section
that interfaces with the disks is known, and has been known for
decades, as the BDOS (Basic Disk Operating System - and long before
IBM marketed a little desktop computer) - to everyone, apparently,
except those who don't actually write it.




Case in point is the post to which I'm responding. You've written HOW
MANY operating systems?
Well, I've not _written_ any, but I have read the source for a couple
over the decades. Although none were peecee OSes, all were for minis.

BDOS, (searches wetware memory, vague stirrings, goes to google...), oh,
of _course_ the bdos functions and traps.

Hmm, well, as it was named as you said it was, and I vaguely remember
using it when forced to work on peecees, to call it an "Operating
System" is inflating it beyond its worth.

It is similar to calling MS/PC-DOS (or CP/M) an Operating System, it
would be more accurately termed a "Program Loader".

Cheers,
Gary B-)
 
D

David

dadiOH said:
Was when I used TRS-80 computers. Wasn't a "sub-system" though...
TRS-DOS _was_ a Disk[-based] Operating System.

(This is what I meant about "a little knowledge")

Cheers,
Gary B-)

It was based on CP/M but was shifted in RAM to avoid the TRS80 ROM
which occupied the first 16KB. It was an addition to the inbuilt ROM
so it could be classed as a sub-system.
 
D

Daniel Mandic

David said:
Which has no bearing on the fact that NT is a DOS. It resides on a
disk and handles the I/O of disks.

You can also do 32 or 64bit resolution with 8bit CPU´s.



Read the first pages of 'Inside Windows 2000', written by Mark
Russinovich and David Solomon. It gives an good description how NT
release from the 8/16 bit environment (BIOS etc.), when the OS starts.


If you only want to play with me ;-), and relate to the text... O.k.
then. Disk operating system. Operating system.
[atapi.sys] e.g. [viaide.sys] [piixide.sys] [agp440.sys] - 32bit kernel
driver. They override the onboard-BIOS. So 32bit, and an OS, IMHO.





Best Regards,

Daniel Mandic
 
A

Al Klein

Well, I've not _written_ any, but I have read the source for a couple
over the decades. Although none were peecee OSes, all were for minis.

And that makes you an expert on micro OSs.

So would reading the bible make you God?
BDOS, (searches wetware memory, vague stirrings, goes to google...), oh,
of _course_ the bdos functions and traps.

How about the entire BDOS? Some were written by teams.
Hmm, well, as it was named as you said it was, and I vaguely remember
using it when forced to work on peecees, to call it an "Operating
System" is inflating it beyond its worth.

It's the DISK operating system, as opposed to other parts of the
entire OS, like the CSI, which is also a system.
It is similar to calling MS/PC-DOS (or CP/M) an Operating System, it
would be more accurately termed a "Program Loader".

If you think all MS/DOS does is load programs, you know nothing about
operating systems. Which I already suspected.
 
A

Al Klein

TRS-DOS _was_ a Disk[-based] Operating System.
(This is what I meant about "a little knowledge")
It was based on CP/M but was shifted in RAM to avoid the TRS80 ROM
which occupied the first 16KB. It was an addition to the inbuilt ROM
so it could be classed as a sub-system.

TRS-DOS bore very little resemblance to CP/M, except in the *function*
of CP/M's BDOS.
 
D

David

David said:
Which has no bearing on the fact that NT is a DOS. It resides on a
disk and handles the I/O of disks.

You can also do 32 or 64bit resolution with 8bit CPU´s.



Read the first pages of 'Inside Windows 2000', written by Mark
Russinovich and David Solomon. It gives an good description how NT
release from the 8/16 bit environment (BIOS etc.), when the OS starts.


If you only want to play with me ;-), and relate to the text... O.k.
then. Disk operating system. Operating system.
[atapi.sys] e.g. [viaide.sys] [piixide.sys] [agp440.sys] - 32bit kernel
driver. They override the onboard-BIOS. So 32bit, and an OS, IMHO.
Correct, Daniel. Since they are stored on a disk they are a DOS by
definition. They also handle the disk I/O stream amplifying the DOS
definition.
 
D

David

TRS-DOS _was_ a Disk[-based] Operating System.
(This is what I meant about "a little knowledge")
It was based on CP/M but was shifted in RAM to avoid the TRS80 ROM
which occupied the first 16KB. It was an addition to the inbuilt ROM
so it could be classed as a sub-system.

TRS-DOS bore very little resemblance to CP/M, except in the *function*
of CP/M's BDOS.

LOL. I did use the word "based". Perhaps I should have added "loosely"
 
D

dadiOH

Al said:
TRS-DOS bore very little resemblance to CP/M, except in the *function*
of CP/M's BDOS.

TRS-DOS (the original) bore very little resemblance to *anything* that
functioned :)

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
 
C

Craig

dadiOH said:
Al Klein wrote:




TRS-DOS (the original) bore very little resemblance to *anything* that
functioned :)
Hey now!

TRS-DOS ran my visicalc like a /champ!/

<g>

Craig
 
T

Terry Russell

Al Klein said:
And that makes you an expert on micro OSs.

So would reading the bible make you God?

You are not comparing like with like.

it is a potato!
no, you simpleton, it is a Solanum Tuberosum!!

The name does not modify the object, the object does not select the name
except by convention. Convention requires a tacit agreement. You cannot
argue exclusivity to redefine convention. Convention may be wrong but
the agreement still exists.

The string ms-windows is not the same as the string ms-dos
one algorithm would conclude the difference is +"windows" -"dos"
another could conclude ...^w^i^n..^w.

I have some disks with MS-DOS printed on them.
I have an XP disk, the word DOS appears nowhere on the disk or documents.
It does say 'the most reliable , capable Windows ever", which
means I suppose any future windows will be worse.
Then "you are about to experience an operating system build for the way you
work"
which is a real porky but since they have more lawyers and I suspect
the courts would defer to common use anyway I won't be pushing it.
Similarly a complaint of inappropriate description would fly like a lead
brick.

Common use of DOS in this context converges to small bit count, cli,
bios driven operating systems ( with some sort of magnetic disk ).
i.e. vaguely between bios monitors and gui.
It is a grey zone between function and specification.

Precise use of D.O.S has very limited scope. Reference to terms outside of
their scope can lead to memory dumps.

Some modeling of recipients world view may be necessary.
 

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